How Wargaming will balance post Commander rework.

[The_Chiv]

So if you look at any of the community interaction sites(reddit, forums, other server forums, twitter, facebook, twitch) A vast majority hate this rework. That is not hyperbole either. Just looking at the EU poll its like 87% negative response. When you read the different post and threads you see everyone chiming in about such and such ship is now useless, such and such ship is not over powered, gameplay is unrewarding...etc. Now logically this would be a pretty good indication to WG that they done messed up and they are going to need to do something about this. However WG has a history of ignoring the player base complaints and offering  unsupported excuses accompanied by meager changes. I would like to believe however that even WG will learn after repeatedly doing the same process over and over only to fail each time, will take a more proactive approach. As such I will divide this post into two parts. What should be done, and what WG will most likely do. This is my opinion, you can agree or disagree with it as much as you like but please support your argument with more then a gif, meme, or insult as there has been some active attempts to censor dissent on other platforms by high profile streamers it is best to not give WG any excuse.

 

What they should do.

 

1. Dead Eye. This is probably the single most toxic skill to game play in the rework. Cruisers won't push up to support dd's, BBs are no where close enough to support or tank damage, and the whole meta has turned in to a game of Hyper accurate BB HE spam. This skill  has virtually no downside to taking it unlike many other skills that other classes such as cruisers have to suffer. Solution: I would say remove and or replace, but WG wont do that. Instead I suggest that it be given a trade off. You get this accuracy but suffer a 15% rof nerf. So for a ship like the Conqueror which can get down to 26.4 second reload it could now only get down to 30.3. Ships like the Vermont would go from 35.2 with mod to 40.4 with reload mod and 46 without mod and doubling down on accuracy. By making this skill a tradeoff skill the impact it has will not be completely mitigated but will make every shot mean more and thus force those who choose to play as a sniper to get some aiming and prediction skills if they wish to play like this effectively.
2. Dazzle. Yet another skill that provide way too much benefit with no downside. This skill encourages the YOLO dd Mindset. A mindset that cost more games then even a cv does. DDs were already annoying to hit most of the time as a cruiser as the moment you shoot you instantly become a target for every bb that can aim at you. Combine this with every bb now taking Deadeye means that the value of cruisers actually adding in support fire against dds is virtually nonexistent. This has put the role of dd interdiction and hunting on cv and other dd. Even with radar this skill completely mitigates all Russian fire and about 33% of usn fire(though USN fire never that accurate to start with). Where it gets more insidious is that the skill can reproc over and over again by going in and out of vision thus it can in theory maintain this mitigation through the entirety of it being spotted. Daring is probably one of the best examples of a ship that can pull this off. Solution: I have a few ideas for this. 1. While the skill is proc'd the dd will remain visible for the entirety of the proc.(this is very flawed as CVs become even more of a problem). 2. Proc cooldown of 30 seconds. When the effect expires it can not retrigger for 30 seconds nor can it retrigger during its effect time. 3 ROF guns and torp nerf. Of all three 2 seems like a strong candidate as it will remove the exploitive nature of the skill while still making it functional.
3. Proximity Fuse CV. 10% reduction of anti torpedo protection. This skill may not seem that bad when you look at it from say the UK,KM,or IJN. Where it becomes problematic however is the USN. Midway and the Cancervelt will get the greatest boost from this ability. In my testing with the midway before the rework I was averaging about 2.5k per torp. now about 3k per torp. 500 per torp may not be so bad when you are hitting max three at a time but when it is 6 or more like USN can do it begins to add up pretty quickly. Solution: Torpedo bomber recovery time +15% 
4. Heavy HE and Sap shells Cruisers. So this skill promotes all or nothing playstyles in the CA and super cruiser lines but is completely punishing to a majority of light cruiser lines. Solution: Change shell requirement for negative effect from 149mm to 154mm
5. Expert AA marksmen cruiser. Cruiser AA has been a meme for far to damn long and the new system gave a meager increases if you take the skills thus making them still less then ideal and limiting play options for cruisers. Solution: Increase sector enhance from 25% to 40%. Additionally change base min of all cruiser instant damage when using sector enhance from 3.5% to 5% as Massive aa is no longer an option to spike this to 7% thus giving tools for ships like Worcester to actually have the ability to be an aa ship
6. Elite xp from dismissing a captain for silver changed from 25% to 50%.

 

What WG will most likely do

1. Dead Eye. Most likely nothing, however probably a change from 10% to 7% like they did with AP cruiser.
2. Dazzle. Change from 20% to 10%
3. Proximity fuse. Nothing
4. Heavy HE and Sap shells. Probably lower the trade off concealment reduction from 15% to 10%
5. Expert AA marksmen cruiser. Probably nothing as wg has made it pretty clear they do not want cruiser to actually be effective against air units and have consistently gone out of their way in not buffing their aa and dodging every question ever asked of them about it in every live stream.
6. Elite xp from dismissing captain for silver. THEY WILL DO NOTHING ABOUT THIS as this is the core money maker for this whole rework and to change that value would be seen as minimizing possible income.  

[HystericalAccuracy]

18 minutes ago, The_Chiv said:

Dazzle. (...)  the skill can reproc over and over again by going in and out of vision thus it can in theory maintain this mitigation through the entirety of it being spotted.

Sounds like WG found a way to sneak invisi-fire partly back into the game.

 

19 minutes ago, The_Chiv said:

Heavy HE and Sap shells Cruisers. (...) Solution: Change shell requirement for negative effect from 149mm to 154mm

The Japanese light cruisers partly have 155mm. With their low HP-pools this would be a big negative. Make threshold 156mm?

 

22 minutes ago, The_Chiv said:

What WG will most likely do

Merge this thread with all others of this kind into a single CV-rework Captain-rework-thread.

[RAYvenMP]

i don't know how, but i do know when. After the free respec is over 

[Tanaka_15]

7 minutes ago, VIadoCro said:

Merge this thread with all others of this kind into a single CV-rework Captain-rework-thread.

And then ignore it like they ignore all feedback. 

[rustyfeeder]

whiners gonna whine. change may be not perfect but it's for the best

[HystericalAccuracy]

4 minutes ago, rustyfeeder said:

whiners gonna whine.

constructivity +1

 

4 minutes ago, rustyfeeder said:

change may be not perfect but it's for the best

There were too many guys playing cruisers anyway.

[niclasknig]

1 hour ago, The_Chiv said:

So if you look at any of the community interaction sites(reddit, forums, other server forums, twitter, facebook, twitch) A vast majority hate this rework. That is not hyperbole either. Just looking at the EU poll its like 87% negative response. When you read the different post and threads you see everyone chiming in about such and such ship is now useless, such and such ship is not over powered, gameplay is unrewarding...etc. Now logically this would be a pretty good indication to WG that they done messed up and they are going to need to do something about this. However WG has a history of ignoring the player base complaints and offering  unsupported excuses accompanied by meager changes. I would like to believe however that even WG will learn after repeatedly doing the same process over and over only to fail each time, will take a more proactive approach. As such I will divide this post into two parts. What should be done, and what WG will most likely do. This is my opinion, you can agree or disagree with it as much as you like but please support your argument with more then a gif, meme, or insult as there has been some active attempts to censor dissent on other platforms by high profile streamers it is best to not give WG any excuse.

 

What they should do.

 

1. Dead Eye. This is probably the single most toxic skill to game play in the rework. Cruisers won't push up to support dd's, BBs are no where close enough to support or tank damage, and the whole meta has turned in to a game of Hyper accurate BB HE spam. This skill  has virtually no downside to taking it unlike many other skills that other classes such as cruisers have to suffer. Solution: I would say remove and or replace, but WG wont do that. Instead I suggest that it be given a trade off. You get this accuracy but suffer a 15% rof nerf. So for a ship like the Conqueror which can get down to 26.4 second reload it could now only get down to 30.3. Ships like the Vermont would go from 35.2 with mod to 40.4 with reload mod and 46 without mod and doubling down on accuracy. By making this skill a tradeoff skill the impact it has will not be completely mitigated but will make every shot mean more and thus force those who choose to play as a sniper to get some aiming and prediction skills if they wish to play like this effectively.
2. Dazzle. Yet another skill that provide way too much benefit with no downside. This skill encourages the YOLO dd Mindset. A mindset that cost more games then even a cv does. DDs were already annoying to hit most of the time as a cruiser as the moment you shoot you instantly become a target for every bb that can aim at you. Combine this with every bb now taking Deadeye means that the value of cruisers actually adding in support fire against dds is virtually nonexistent. This has put the role of dd interdiction and hunting on cv and other dd. Even with radar this skill completely mitigates all Russian fire and about 33% of usn fire(though USN fire never that accurate to start with). Where it gets more insidious is that the skill can reproc over and over again by going in and out of vision thus it can in theory maintain this mitigation through the entirety of it being spotted. Daring is probably one of the best examples of a ship that can pull this off. Solution: I have a few ideas for this. 1. While the skill is proc'd the dd will remain visible for the entirety of the proc.(this is very flawed as CVs become even more of a problem). 2. Proc cooldown of 30 seconds. When the effect expires it can not retrigger for 30 seconds nor can it retrigger during its effect time. 3 ROF guns and torp nerf. Of all three 2 seems like a strong candidate as it will remove the exploitive nature of the skill while still making it functional.
3. Proximity Fuse CV. 10% reduction of anti torpedo protection. This skill may not seem that bad when you look at it from say the UK,KM,or IJN. Where it becomes problematic however is the USN. Midway and the Cancervelt will get the greatest boost from this ability. In my testing with the midway before the rework I was averaging about 2.5k per torp. now about 3k per torp. 500 per torp may not be so bad when you are hitting max three at a time but when it is 6 or more like USN can do it begins to add up pretty quickly. Solution: Torpedo bomber recovery time +15% 
4. Heavy HE and Sap shells Cruisers. So this skill promotes all or nothing playstyles in the CA and super cruiser lines but is completely punishing to a majority of light cruiser lines. Solution: Change shell requirement for negative effect from 149mm to 154mm
5. Expert AA marksmen cruiser. Cruiser AA has been a meme for far to damn long and the new system gave a meager increases if you take the skills thus making them still less then ideal and limiting play options for cruisers. Solution: Increase sector enhance from 25% to 40%. Additionally change base min of all cruiser instant damage when using sector enhance from 3.5% to 5% as Massive aa is no longer an option to spike this to 7% thus giving tools for ships like Worcester to actually have the ability to be an aa ship
6. Elite xp from dismissing a captain for silver changed from 25% to 50%.

 

What WG will most likely do

1. Dead Eye. Most likely nothing, however probably a change from 10% to 7% like they did with AP cruiser.
2. Dazzle. Change from 20% to 10%
3. Proximity fuse. Nothing
4. Heavy HE and Sap shells. Probably lower the trade off concealment reduction from 15% to 10%
5. Expert AA marksmen cruiser. Probably nothing as wg has made it pretty clear they do not want cruiser to actually be effective against air units and have consistently gone out of their way in not buffing their aa and dodging every question ever asked of them about it in every live stream.
6. Elite xp from dismissing captain for silver. THEY WILL DO NOTHING ABOUT THIS as this is the core money maker for this whole rework and to change that value would be seen as minimizing possible income.  

 

- I dont see much problems with dazzle. On ships without smoke  and/or playing an ambush gamestyle its a good skill, especially on smaland, which gets 2/3 of its radar time now some protection against lucky hits. For the rest the time is to short they have smoke and 4pts are really expensive for dds.

 

- Heavy ap shells is perferct, the tradeoff should be in km instead as actually the worse concealment is a buff for me. Cruisers with concealment = fire range like hiv, hindi, venezia have now a perma 8% reload buff plus the 10% damage, while zao, goliath and all other cruisers with good camo ratings have to take the dispersion only camo to get the 8% buff and still have to be far to close to constantly dodge. 

 

- cvs wont be nerved anyway. when you re writing they are op they most likely will get a second commander rework, giving them skills for higher fire chances, flooding chances or ap damage to chose from.

[Mrs_Ragdoll]

1 hour ago, rustyfeeder said:

whiners gonna whine. change may be not perfect but it's for the best

lol?! the update is terrible. It's best for BBs that were already camping in the back before rework and best for new BBs that are going to camp in the back now, so for all BBs for the best indeed (except secondary brawlers) to not play objectives and just damage farm from 20 to 24 km. It takes only 4 points to make an OP sniper BB and it doens't even need concealment expert when you sit so far in the back. All other classes and ships need CE. And it takes like 11 points more to make a secondary gun build BB (not even count the CE points) and are useless now. Secondary guns became a little worse and enemy BBs have 10% more accuracy and they and all other classes will shoot at you. So why play German secondary builds? And I bought the Pommern and Tirpitz only a short time ago, money spend and ship became useless now. Secondary builds were my favorite and are destroyed. Cruisers that were already weak in general will now often get Dev striked in 1 or 2 shots, yes it's probably for the best this patch, amazing good patch, FOR CAMPING BBs indeed. Which you are probably one of else you wouldn't be promoting this new captain rework.  Have fun playing with your OP sniper BB when everyone else gets destroyed easy that actually trying to play the objectives and cap.

 

[Sprockett]

Wargaming Listening... now that is a joke. This re-work is a money grab. this is not for the benefit of the game, but a money grab for the longer time player (I have 205 ships). The free rework will be over in no time and then they start rolling in the money. 

@MrConway WG have never gone back on a patch. The community is going to be hampered over the next various patches as WG change the parameters of the re-work but not the problems. AS they did with CV - which we all know are now perfectly balanced.

 

I have uninstalled the game after 5 years of playing.  

 

This rework is all for a money grab and nothing else.

[RAYvenMP]

1 hour ago, rustyfeeder said:

whiners gonna whine. change may be not perfect but it's for the best

yea, so the builds ppl used before now take twice the amount of CXP mainly thanks to changes to PT, AR and SI (BBs)

where is the diversity announced? making the strongest skills cost more? I will still take AR for 3pts on all ships, so i get the same for 500k CXP more and running same build

BFT nerfed by 50% and removed from CAs, cost the same points. AFT removed from CAs (Flint is much fun now, try it)

They have just bloated the 4pts skill line with useless trash skills and one OP skill (dead eye)

 

there is literally nothing positive for players in this "rework" execpt the fact that you can now run special commanders on all your premiums (aka buy more premiums to make it count)

there removed some noob traps like SE on BBs, but introducted this awesome "5% AP for 30% longer fires" or "10% more HE for 15% conceal",  or maybe DPM trade for concealment on DDs? just wow

 

[SkollUlfr]

21 minutes ago, Sprockett said:

 

 

This rework is all for a money grab and nothing else.

i keep reading this, but i still dont get how...

who is spending/going to spend on this feature?

[tom_kat]

28 minutes ago, Mrs_Ragdoll said:

lol?! the update is terrible. It's best for BBs that were already camping in the back before rework and best for new BBs that are going to camp in the back now, so for all BBs for the best indeed (except secondary brawlers) to not play objectives and just damage farm from 20 to 24 km. It takes only 4 points to make an OP sniper BB and it doens't even need concealment expert when you sit so far in the back. All other classes and ships need CE. And it takes like 11 points more to make a secondary gun build BB (not even count the CE points) and are useless now. Secondary guns became a little worse and enemy BBs have 10% more accuracy and they and all other classes will shoot at you. So why play German secondary builds? And I bought the Pommern and Tirpitz only a short time ago, money spend and ship became useless now. Secondary builds were my favorite and are destroyed. Cruisers that were already weak in general will now often get Dev striked in 1 or 2 shots, yes it's probably for the best this patch, amazing good patch, FOR CAMPING BBs indeed. Which you are probably one of else you wouldn't be promoting this new captain rework.  Have fun playing with your OP sniper BB when everyone else gets destroyed easy that actually trying to play the objectives and cap.

 

Actually brawlers BBs are useless. No point of pushing. No point of knowing the map and angle to hold a position. 80% of the team is almost border surfing and sniping, as the enemy does. If somebody up there in the WeeGee skies thought this gonna be good for gameplay, better for him/her to stop drinking vodka. This thing monetizes the effort made by the player knowing the game just for habilities that makes a situational-positional game into  a shoot-the-duck kind of.

Welcome to World of Coastal Batteries.

And, by the way. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I feel CV's even more broken with the new captain habilities: I've had a buch of games since new patch with my Halland where a CV's destroy me with 2 squadrons and I managed to shot down around 10 planes. A nice add to the game will be a magic button that provides you the option to play CV's matches or not. I would love to see the % of players that won't want to.

[MementoMori_6030]

Vor 5 Minuten, tom_kat sagte:

Actually brawlers BBs are useless.

My first impression is that WG managed to separate BBs into a dedicated PvP and a dedicated PvE build each.

[Sprockett]

Dismissing Commanders cost money

re-speccing the commanders as and when the parameters are changed of the various OP skills, will  cost. 

The XP to get from a 19pt cpt to a 21 point captain is the same value - so to get those last 2 points will require a lot of flags.. (money)

My whole account has been Nerfed by this rework - NObody asked for this - which begs the question of why do it - then you look at the small print finances - so much more DUBs now have to be spent.

The community are testing these changes at our own cost.

 

WG has not listened to any of their CCs - in regards to various concerns raised by them after testing of PTS. SO they are not going to listen to you me or anybody but MONEY

 

THIS is a MONEY grab - players like me who whaled into the game 5 years ago, buying every premium and premium time, who then slowly after time realized that premium cash bought ships will be nerfed/buffed when WG do things like CV re-work (no more AA cruiser - looking at you Atlanta, Kutazov, DM, WOrcester etc_).  The CV rework nerfed a lot of cash bought ships with out WG having to actually nerf the ship - no cash refunds. After the CV rework I have only spent £20 with  WG and that was to prove to myself of the FIXED loot boxes - otherwise 0 money spent. But after this Commander skill re-work I will have to spend money overtime testing out each ship and each commander to get mu fleet back to where it was before this re-work (I was happy with the commander skills - previously and all WG had to do was add either another colum of skill or another row of skills.... 

 

This is commander skill rework is a way of getting more money from you. 

 

This is the same with the Commmander rework - BB hp pools have been nerfed, DD's have been nerfed, CA and CLs have been nerfed.

 

Now for the next 6 patches or so there will be parameter changes to the Commanders skills which guess what, will cost money to re -spec your commanders.

 

My advice un-install the game - I have watched WG never listen to its community - It is their game. UN-INSTALL and move on!

 

 

[Ocsimano18]

Lot of common misunderstandings here. Brawling BB style is not dead at tier 8. At tier10 it was already dead in pre patch randoms. Dead eye is fine, the problem is the general misunderstanding that you need to do everything to use this one skill only, giving up cap influence, DD support, etc. Dazzle is not an OP skill. It only lasts 15 seconds and it’s not a magic armor to prevent any hits. In facr it’s hard to proove its real worth. Also there are a lot of new anti CV skills, especially for cruisers. Don’t complain against CVs instead of taking some of these skills.

 

Regarding the atrocious cost of 21 point commanders: Yes it is atrocious, but you are fine with a 19 pointer.

[CastorTolagi]

Vor 19 Minuten, SkollUlfr sagte:

who is spending/going to spend on this feature? 

Everyone who wants to move a captain quickly from ship to ship without going through retraining because nice WG changed the 50% maulus on untrained captains to 100% so no skill works as long as your captain isn't trained on a ship.

 

And its a Ressource sink to skip the grind for 2 more points and once you run out of the Elite captain XP you can always choose Gold.

 

How nice from WG

[Jethro_Grey]

2 hours ago, rustyfeeder said:

whiners gonna whine. change may be not perfect but it's for the best

For the best???

My initially planned response to your post was dismantling it and ridiculing you for posting such a nonsense.

 

Then I checked your stats and I understood why you would post nonsense.

You're a bad player and apparently have no clue, you're most played class are CVs and the description of your clan is summing it up quite nicely: 

 

In eternal denial

 

You can't make this stuff up. 

[Hugh_Ruka]

I don't think Dazzle is such a problem but a nerf to 15% would be good.

 

HE+SAP shells skill should lose the SAP part. Venezia was already crazy against DDs, now it is just instantly lethal if you don't have Dazzle or it expired ....

 

I do agree with the Dead-eye change. You should trade accuracy for reload ... that's a good suggestion.

 

Also an indicator of when the conditional skills are active is a must ...

[iFax]

I hate Dead Eye as it's a useless skill. 

 

A couple of competent DD's can shut down the skill for the enemy with much less risk plus I like the dispersion when shooting at DD's. Dead Eyes makes it easier for DDs to avoid hits due to the close shell grouping. Only use I've found with the skill is long range sniping of enemy CV's.

[Sprockett]

NO RECOMMENDATION FROM ANY OF US PLAYERS WILL BE LISTENED TO. 

 

YOU are WASTING your time and Ideas.

 

UNINSTALL and move on... this is only going to get worse with Sub coming..

 

[Procrastes]

9 hours ago, The_Chiv said:

Dazzle. Yet another skill that provide way too much benefit with no downside. 

The Dazzle skill does provide a valid choice for the second 4th-level DD skill, where before the Radio Location skill was the only practical thing to take. Right now you are forced to choose between two very strong second-choice skills, which provide different advantages and benefit rather different play styles. This - the introduction of added variety - is in itself a good thing.

 

As for Dazzle being too strong, I think it is still far too early to say anything for certain. But with the proliferation of radar and long-range hydro - not to mention all those blasted planes - in the game these days, I'd say that destroyers could use another tool in their toolbox. I doubt that the Dazzle skill will prove to be unbalanced, and if WG nerfs it so that it only provides a 10 % bonus, I think it will cease to be a useful alternative to Radio Location.

[The_Chiv]

1 hour ago, niclasknig said:

 

- I dont see much problems with dazzle. On ships without smoke  and/or playing an ambush gamestyle its a good skill, especially on smaland, which gets 2/3 of its radar time now some protection against lucky hits. For the rest the time is to short they have smoke and 4pts are really expensive for dds.

 

- Heavy ap shells is perferct, the tradeoff should be in km instead as actually the worse concealment is a buff for me. Cruisers with concealment = fire range like hiv, hindi, venezia have now a perma 8% reload buff plus the 10% damage, while zao, goliath and all other cruisers with good camo ratings have to take the dispersion only camo to get the 8% buff and still have to be far to close to constantly dodge. 

 

- cvs wont be nerved anyway. when you re writing they are op they most likely will get a second commander rework, giving them skills for higher fire chances, flooding chances or ap damage to chose from.

With the exception of the cv point I disagree with everything else you said.

 

Dazzle like dead eye is damn near an auto pick. Yes for ships that don't have smoke it is awesome but ships with a plethora of short smokes can exploit the hell out of it. Before I would get maybe 1.2 mil potential in my dds. Now with dazzle Im pulling like 2.2 million. Thats more then my average in a super cruiser and a little less then what I get in bbs. It is very very very powerful and will need addressing.

 

HEAVY ap at 7% is fine and was only brought up as a reference to what the balance for deadeye would probably look like. HEAVY HE/SAP on the other hand is utter garbage. Ok 8% ROF plus more  base damage seems great on paper. TIll you play it and realize wow you are getting nuked in the first 3 minutes of the game because you can not go back into concealment to repair. This means you tend to never make it late game when the ship counts are reduced and thus you are able to use your DPM effectively. Managing concealment and lasting till the later part of the match is one of the biggest struggles for most cruiser players pre rework, so to throw away any notion of it for yolo damage farming just seems a bad idea all together. 

35 minutes ago, tom_kat said:

Actually brawlers BBs are useless. No point of pushing. No point of knowing the map and angle to hold a position. 80% of the team is almost border surfing and sniping, as the enemy does. If somebody up there in the WeeGee skies thought this gonna be good for gameplay, better for him/her to stop drinking vodka. This thing monetizes the effort made by the player knowing the game just for habilities that makes a situational-positional game into  a shoot-the-duck kind of.

Welcome to World of Coastal Batteries.

And, by the way. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I feel CV's even more broken with the new captain habilities: I've had a buch of games since new patch with my Halland where a CV's destroy me with 2 squadrons and I managed to shot down around 10 planes. A nice add to the game will be a magic button that provides you the option to play CV's matches or not. I would love to see the % of players that won't want to.

You lost a ton of aa abilities and cvs gained a bit more defense.

16 minutes ago, Ocsimano18 said:

Lot of common misunderstandings here. Brawling BB style is not dead at tier 8. At tier10 it was already dead in pre patch randoms. Dead eye is fine, the problem is the general misunderstanding that you need to do everything to use this one skill only, giving up cap influence, DD support, etc. Dazzle is not an OP skill. It only lasts 15 seconds and it’s not a magic armor to prevent any hits. In facr it’s hard to proove its real worth. Also there are a lot of new anti CV skills, especially for cruiser. Don’t complain against CVs instead of taking some of these skills.

You argument of Deadeye being fine is only looking at the skill not the overall effect. The meta shift it causes is problematic. As for dd support sorry deadeye killed that because NO light cruiser or heavy cruiser wants to be the first to die so they are playing at their extreme ranges. The upside to this is has reduced radar cruisers rushing caps looking for easy first kills.

 

Dazzle is op. For many DD players it is a perm 20% dispersion mitigation. So Des Moines instead of having 154m against a dd is now at 184m. This means less hits less damage less effective response. Even if the dd is spotted and goes into smoke only to get radared they get the ability reproced with the timer reset. Not gonna lie It has been kind of funny playing a daring these days and watching people scream in chat about it. 

 

Oh boy I was waiting for a cv to get on this. Ok so the rework gave 5% more continuous  and a skill to add +1 flak and like 10% more damage from flak. The rework also removed 25% priority sector enhancement as well as took away the ability to get 7% instant damage and now every ship can only get 3.5% instant damage. Now would you like to know what this did for the Worcester? It made it even less of a threat. Even before the rework Worcester(ship that by design was an aa cruiser) was struggling against KM and UK cvs. Guess what it still struggles against them but now even IJN and USN seem even more impactful against them. So yes I took the skills I played them and I found them to be yet again lacking. Even with the ability to put out 9 flak burst it didn't seem to phase the planes. Probably because they all got a buff in defensive skills.

[lossi_2018]

---

They won't. Game is ded.

[Ocsimano18]

1 hour ago, The_Chiv said:

With the exception of the cv point I disagree with everything else you said.

 

Dazzle like dead eye is damn near an auto pick. Yes for ships that don't have smoke it is awesome but ships with a plethora of short smokes can exploit the hell out of it. Before I would get maybe 1.2 mil potential in my dds. Now with dazzle Im pulling like 2.2 million. Thats more then my average in a super cruiser and a little less then what I get in bbs. It is very very very powerful and will need addressing.

 

HEAVY ap at 7% is fine and was only brought up as a reference to what the balance for deadeye would probably look like. HEAVY HE/SAP on the other hand is utter garbage. Ok 8% ROF plus more  base damage seems great on paper. TIll you play it and realize wow you are getting nuked in the first 3 minutes of the game because you can not go back into concealment to repair. This means you tend to never make it late game when the ship counts are reduced and thus you are able to use your DPM effectively. Managing concealment and lasting till the later part of the match is one of the biggest struggles for most cruiser players pre rework, so to throw away any notion of it for yolo damage farming just seems a bad idea all together. 

You lost a ton of aa abilities and cvs gained a bit more defense.

You argument of Deadeye being fine is only looking at the skill not the overall effect. The meta shift it causes is problematic. As for dd support sorry deadeye killed that because NO light cruiser or heavy cruiser wants to be the first to die so they are playing at their extreme ranges. The upside to this is has reduced radar cruisers rushing caps looking for easy first kills.

 

Dazzle is op. For many DD players it is a perm 20% dispersion mitigation. So Des Moines instead of having 154m against a dd is now at 184m. This means less hits less damage less effective response. Even if the dd is spotted and goes into smoke only to get radared they get the ability reproced with the timer reset. Not gonna lie It has been kind of funny playing a daring these days and watching people scream in chat about it. 

 

Oh boy I was waiting for a cv to get on this. Ok so the rework gave 5% more continuous  and a skill to add +1 flak and like 10% more damage from flak. The rework also removed 25% priority sector enhancement as well as took away the ability to get 7% instant damage and now every ship can only get 3.5% instant damage. Now would you like to know what this did for the Worcester? It made it even less of a threat. Even before the rework Worcester(ship that by design was an aa cruiser) was struggling against KM and UK cvs. Guess what it still struggles against them but now even IJN and USN seem even more impactful against them. So yes I took the skills I played them and I found them to be yet again lacking. Even with the ability to put out 9 flak burst it didn't seem to phase the planes. Probably because they all got a buff in defensive skills.

I play a lot of DDs and getting catched by a Des Moines happens rarely. I rather get spotted by other DDs, and 20% worse DD dispersion will still hit you. Also it’s harder to dodge more dispersed SAP salvos. The net effect is hard to see, as it’s hard to compare what happens with or without Dazzle being active.

 

The meta shift is temporary. Good players will move closer to the cap after this initial frenzy. Potatoes gonna potate, but that was always the case.

 

Don’t compare the new anti CV skills with the RTS CV era. CVs are less potent now. The new skills are a big improvement compared to previous patch. Just try using them instead of the no concealment low WR farmer build.

[Uglesett]

2 hours ago, Ocsimano18 said:

Regarding the atrocious cost of 21 point commanders: Yes it is atrocious, but you are fine with a 19 pointer.

Haven't had time to play that much after the rework, but so far, I'd say that a 19 pointer post-rework is about equivalent to a 16-pointer pre-rework (but huge variation there between ships and ship classes - e.g. there's a fairly limited amount of actually useful skills for Minotaur anyway).

 

And "you were fine" with a 16 pt captain pre-rework. But you're still losing out on one or two skills that could make a significant difference in the right circumstances.