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Pukovnik7

Richelieu vs Bismarck

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If by some wonder war got delayed long enough for both classes to be fully-ready for service, how well would they do against each other, both strategically (preventing raids / raiding) and tactically (in a direct combat)? And how well would each class deal with other set of opponents (Italians for Richelieu and British for Bismarck)?

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If the war had been delayed long enough you'd probably also have had 15" or 16" armed KGV class Battleships, probably even the improved Lion class. So the Bismarck would be in a worse position than it was when it was sunk.

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32 minutes ago, Grand_Moff_Tano said:

If the war had been delayed long enough you'd probably also have had 15" or 16" armed KGV class Battleships, probably even the improved Lion class. So the Bismarck would be in a worse position than it was when it was sunk.

Agreed, though that would also mean Germany would have 16'' Bismarck variant. Not necessarily an advantage, seeing how I see KGV as roughly equal to Bismarck despite latter's cca 5 000 ton displacement advantage, but it might make older British battleships less relevant.

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2 minutes ago, Pukovnik7 said:

Agreed, though that would also mean Germany would have 16'' Bismarck variant. Not necessarily an advantage, seeing how I see KGV as roughly equal to Bismarck despite latter's cca 5 000 ton displacement advantage, but it might make older British battleships less relevant.

Depends how late WW2 starts, but it can be assumed a 16" Bismarck would have been laid down at some point. We can also assume at that point Germany would have a fledgling Fleet Air Arm with Carriers for to take off from.

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As far as i remember, Germany did not plan to have a war before 1941. 

For that time they expected to have the Scharnhorst / Gneisenau modified from cal 280 to 380. 

Bismarck - Tirpiz and Graf Zeppelin CV should be ready, and a new class of bigger BBs should be ready. 

Total 6 BB 1 CV

 

No idea how many BBs - CVs were in the British Home Fleet and in the French Atlantic Fleet, i think there would be more or less a 1 vs 3 disadvantage for the germans.

No way there ever would be a 1 vs 1 battle.

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On the British side we'd have 5 KGV class battleships, assuming the war didn't start till some date after 1941, it can be assumed the first 3 ships of that class would have had 2x4 and 1x2 14" gun set up, while the other 2 would have run the gamble of having 3x3 15" turrets, considering the 16" guns would not have been ready in time for their completion, you'd also have at least 4 of 6 Lion class Battleships with 3x3 16" guns (HMS Lion, HMS Temeraire, HMS Thunderer and HMS Conqueror) and can also be assumed that HMS Malta, HMS Gibraltar and HMS New Zealand would have been laid down and likely have joined any war while it was still raging giving the UK 3 more Carriers. HMS Hood would also have received her planned 1942 refit or be in the process of receiving it.

 

Just as likely would be that assuming the Lion class battleships were not yet completed they may either be scrapped, still planned as battleships or converted to a Carrier (likely hood being that Lion and Temeraire being completed as Battleships, and the latter 2, Thunderer and Conqueror, being converted to half deck (keeping the front 16" guns) or full deck carriers).

Edited by Grand_Moff_Tano

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6 ore fa, Grand_Moff_Tano ha scritto:

On the British side we'd have 5 KGV class battleships, assuming the war didn't start till some date after 1941, it can be assumed the first 3 ships of that class would have had 2x4 and 1x2 14" gun set up, while the other 2 would have run the gamble of having 3x3 15" turrets, considering the 16" guns would not have been ready in time for their completion, you'd also have at least 4 of 6 Lion class Battleships with 3x3 16" guns (HMS Lion, HMS Temeraire, HMS Thunderer and HMS Conqueror) and can also be assumed that HMS Malta, HMS Gibraltar and HMS New Zealand would have been laid down and likely have joined any war while it was still raging giving the UK 3 more Carriers. HMS Hood would also have received her planned 1942 refit or be in the process of receiving it.

 

Just as likely would be that assuming the Lion class battleships were not yet completed they may either be scrapped, still planned as battleships or converted to a Carrier (likely hood being that Lion and Temeraire being completed as Battleships, and the latter 2, Thunderer and Conqueror, being converted to half deck (keeping the front 16" guns) or full deck carriers).

All in home fleet, or some of them in mediterranean sea vs italian navy ?  And no idea if there were more in the Pacific.

 

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