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Best tech tree to switch to?

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OK, so I have been playing Vanguard lately, and I love it. I can take long-range HE potshots at enemy battleships as they show up, and AP wipes out cruisers if done properly. She plays like a giant cruiser - it is all about opportunities and angling, and running away.

 

From what I have read so far, it seems that French line of battleships might be a good fit for that playstyle. Going by historical examples, which is also supported by the comments I had read so far, French battleships have good speed, good agility, decent armour and decent accuracy. I do hope the game doesn't simulate historical Richelieu's shot dispersion, though.

 

So: are French battleships good for battlecruiser-type playstyle, and if not, which would be the best? Basically, I am looking for a line which has a Tier VII - X battleship(s) with:

- good frontal firepower

- good primary armament

- good AAA suite

- good rudder response time

- high speed

- tight turn circle

- moderate-to-good armour

 

Originally, my goal had been the Conqueror, but over time my style of playing shifted away from long-range HE spam to more of a "giant cruiser" approach, so I do not think it would be a good choice.

 

I would also like a heavy cruiser recommendation along with battleship recommendation, based on the same list of characteristics.

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2 hours ago, ColonelPete said:

You were already told that.

If you mean this:

I was given a list of battleships which play as battlecruisers. But these ships span several (if not all) countries, so it doesn't really help in deciding which line to focus on: I would rather prefer to play a nation which has fast battleship approach throughout the line, so that I can develop playstyle organically rather than be thrown from a lumbering behemoth to a zipper. This I think eliminates US (due to their Standard-type battleships) and Russia. My understanding is that French battleships in general tend to be among the fastest, is that correct?

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7 hours ago, Pukovnik7 said:

OK, so I have been playing Vanguard lately, and I love it. I can take long-range HE potshots at enemy battleships as they show up, and AP wipes out cruisers if done properly. She plays like a giant cruiser - it is all about opportunities and angling, and running away.

 

From what I have read so far, it seems that French line of battleships might be a good fit for that playstyle. Going by historical examples, which is also supported by the comments I had read so far, French battleships have good speed, good agility, decent armour and decent accuracy. I do hope the game doesn't simulate historical Richelieu's shot dispersion, though.

 

So: are French battleships good for battlecruiser-type playstyle, and if not, which would be the best? Basically, I am looking for a line which has a Tier VII - X battleship(s) with:

- good frontal firepower

- good primary armament

- good AAA suite

- good rudder response time

- high speed

- tight turn circle

- moderate-to-good armour

 

Originally, my goal had been the Conqueror, but over time my style of playing shifted away from long-range HE spam to more of a "giant cruiser" approach, so I do not think it would be a good choice.

 

I would also like a heavy cruiser recommendation along with battleship recommendation, based on the same list of characteristics.

There is no BB line that fits all your criteria.

However I might go for French BBs in your case, because the this line has the engine boost which will help for your agility requirement, and the Republique is a very good ship, with a short reload time for a BB. 

But the rudder, the turning circle and the armour... well French BBs are not praised for their armour. You want moderate to good, this is definitely more moderate than good.

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13 hours ago, elblancogringo said:

There is no BB line that fits all your criteria.

However I might go for French BBs in your case, because the this line has the engine boost which will help for your agility requirement, and the Republique is a very good ship, with a short reload time for a BB. 

But the rudder, the turning circle and the armour... well French BBs are not praised for their armour. You want moderate to good, this is definitely more moderate than good.

That fits, yeah. I actually listed characteristics in order of priorities, so out of the three problematic characteristics, only the rudder may be the one I'd see as a problem.

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On 23/01/2021 at 6:23 PM, Pukovnik7 said:

Zip

 

 I am so glad you are now considering actually grinding the silver lines, not buying a tier 8 ship right from the bat like you already have (the Vanguard).

 

Vanguard   Vanguard  8 U.K. 34 44.12% 299 30 093 0.26 2.32 Details

 

So I would recommend ANY BB line, just please don't play that tier ship for the sake for your team. I'm really sorry if that sounds harsh, but please.  Learn the game.

 

So....

 

You are struggling to stay alive in British BB's, never mind French ones which have on average lower HP and armour. Higher tier French BBs require more of a skilled player to use to it's fullest, but they are strong in the right hands.  being fast is great, but being fast means nothing if you haven't got a clue what is going on and when to use that speed.  They also have low pen shells (until tier 10) so you will struggle against good players in cruisers, never mind BB's. 

 

I would always recommend Russian BB's first simply due to its overmatch and thick armour (people at least stay alive longer and hit harder), but with that play style you are describing then grind the American line for now as they are a hybrid, then the French line if you wish. 

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20 minutes ago, Redcap375 said:

 

 I am so glad you are now considering actually grinding the silver lines, not buying a tier 8 ship right from the bat like you already have (the Vanguard).

  

Vanguard   Vanguard  8 U.K. 34 44.12% 299 30 093 0.26 2.32 Details

 

So I would recommend ANY BB line, just please don't play that tier ship for the sake for your team. I'm really sorry if that sounds harsh, but please.  Learn the game.

 

So....

 

You are struggling to stay alive in British BB's, never mind French ones which have on average lower HP and armour. Higher tier French BBs require more of a skilled player to use to it's fullest, but they are strong in the right hands.  being fast is great, but being fast means nothing if you haven't got a clue what is going on and when to use that speed.  They also have low pen shells (until tier 10) so you will struggle against good players in cruisers, never mind BB's. 

 

I would always recommend Russian BB's first, but with that play style you are describing then grind the American line. 

Right now, I am not grinding any line. Rather, I am grinding tiers - basically, I will play all the ships in the first tier, then all the ships in the second tier, and so on.

As for Vanguard, I use it when I feel like playing a battleship. I hate low-tier battleships because they are too slow, but well - that is not a problem I will have to worry about for a while. Originally, I ground British battleships, but as I said - I concluded it is a mistake.

 

That being said, part of the reason why I am struggling to stay alive in British battleships is because I never play them British style. As I have explained, I actually prefer cruiser playstyle, and I treat even battleships as giant cruisers. Which is not exactly optimal, especially in British ships. But that cruiser focus is why I bought Vanguard, but as I said... I'll be using it in coop for now. Tier 8 is way too high for me, at least for now.

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The best battlecruiser like BB is Bourgone now, no other contester with that capabilities.

 

Secondary Georgia nerfed with skill change.

The real BC-s are Khronstadt, Stalingrad and Alaska but hard to get them and new skill nerfed all of them as they dont have acces deadeye and fire prevention skill (they need it).

Bourgone and Stalingrad can be bought for lots of stell.

Stalingrad has terrible detection range and suffer from Conqe&#&Thunder## he spam. CV like to visit too.

Bourgone detection range is goodsend but in static frontal position is the same as JeanBart (cant buy now). Side / paralel is very good and fast for positioning. Low hp and weak armor -> can be focused down but can manover and disengage FAST.

IJN BC not recommend as dead eye overmatch capable BBs can 1 shoot You from bow/ster too (big cita poor armour large target).

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French BB's are fast flankers, but playing them effectively needs some experience, skill, and lots of awareness. Otherwise, all the additional speed does is it gets you killed off faster. Have you considered USN BB's? The NC-Iowa-Montana sub tree, forget about the slow chonky line that ends with Vermont. They're still really good, and imho they're jacks of all trades which makes them perfect to learn on. They are very slow until you get to NC at t8, but it doesn't take that long to get to t8, and being slow does have the advantage of making you look at the minimap and plan your movements more, which will be useful later on. After t8 though you get relatively fast BB's with decent and fairly accurate guns.

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On 1/23/2021 at 7:23 PM, Pukovnik7 said:

- good frontal firepower

- good primary armament

- good AAA suite

- good rudder response time

- high speed

- tight turn circle

- moderate-to-good armour

No line has all of those.

 

The French have good AA from T7 onwards, good speed as well. The armor is good in that they're hard to citadel, but also bad in that they get melted by heavy cruisers or light cruisers and IJN gunboats with IFHE equipped. Also, their gun caliber is below average.

USN fast BBs have good speed (from T8) and good AA. The guns are good on the NC and Iowa, but the Montana has comparatively less frontal firepower: same 6x16'' guns as the Iowa, which feel underwhelming at T10. She's also slower.

Soviet BBs have so-so handling, but the guns are pretty big, the frontal and deck armor is great. However, they need to be played at mid range, which takes more skill.

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1 hour ago, Captain_Newman said:

French BB's are fast flankers, but playing them effectively needs some experience, skill, and lots of awareness. Otherwise, all the additional speed does is it gets you killed off faster. Have you considered USN BB's? The NC-Iowa-Montana sub tree, forget about the slow chonky line that ends with Vermont. They're still really good, and imho they're jacks of all trades which makes them perfect to learn on. They are very slow until you get to NC at t8, but it doesn't take that long to get to t8, and being slow does have the advantage of making you look at the minimap and plan your movements more, which will be useful later on. After t8 though you get relatively fast BB's with decent and fairly accurate guns.

Thanks. And yeah, I think now it might be my best bet. One question however is whether I should keep up with my current approach of playing all nations tier by tier, and if or when to switch to playing only US ships? I'm worried that as playstyles diversify between nations at higher tiers, playing different ships of the same tier might make it more difficult to adjust.

1 hour ago, tocqueville8 said:

No line has all of those.

 

The French have good AA from T7 onwards, good speed as well. The armor is good in that they're hard to citadel, but also bad in that they get melted by heavy cruisers or light cruisers and IJN gunboats with IFHE equipped. Also, their gun caliber is below average.

USN fast BBs have good speed (from T8) and good AA. The guns are good on the NC and Iowa, but the Montana has comparatively less frontal firepower: same 6x16'' guns as the Iowa, which feel underwhelming at T10. She's also slower.

Soviet BBs have so-so handling, but the guns are pretty big, the frontal and deck armor is great. However, they need to be played at mid range, which takes more skill.

Thanks. So basically US or German might be the best choice - my ideal combat distance is one where I can ram enemy ships to death if I want to, but problem is how to survive long enough to get there, and in any case I'm still not back up to speed on the game (if I ever was - I played it some years back, but mostly in a casual way). Problem with US battleships is that they have rather problematic time exploiting potential cross-fire opportunities due to low speed, though I have learned one needs to be careful with doing that so slow speed might actually be an advantage, as @Captain_Newman points out.

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9 hours ago, Pukovnik7 said:

So basically US or German might be the best choice

Huh, no.

 

German BBs have good armor, but the guns are inaccurate and not especially powerful, either. They can feel very frustrating. Their AA is competent, but they can get citadelled by AP bombers much more easily than those of other nations. Their main advantage is secondaries, but those have been nerfed considerably with the captain rework, both directly (the dispersion is worse) and indirectly (people play HE spammer-snipers like Conqueror and Thunderer, so pushing is often out of the question).

 

USN BBs are mostly very slow. I like them all the same, esp. the Colorado, but they're just not flankers. Also, at high tiers they're very easy to citadel: the Iowa is one of the few BBs where I recall being Dev-Struck by enemy BBs more than once.

 

From what you've written, I get the impression that French BBs could be the best pick for you.

Just be patient with the Normandie: she's got terrible AA.

The Lyon is basically a mini-Conqueror, very well-suited to the current meta.

The Richi is the jewel of the line imho: the guns feel "right" for T8, she's got a speed boost and good armor as long as you keep your distance from HE spammers.
Alsace is a Richi with more guns, although you should be careful about showing skirt to use your rear turret... She can be played as a good HE spammer as well.

The République is weird, but powerful. The guns overmatch most cruisers and they reload quickly, though the turret arrangement is only good for flanking, not pushing. Very strong AA, and she's hard to citadel.

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Am 23.1.2021 um 19:23, Pukovnik7 sagte:

- good frontal firepower

- good primary armament

American Battleships have good frontal firepower. Espacially from Tier 8. The Guns are accurate and have a high Calliber but slow Shell Speed

French Battleships have smaller less accurate Guns. But the Shell Speed is fast and you have often a very large Number of Guns.

But Only The Tier 8 and 9 Battleships and the Dunkerque Class have a lot of Guns at the Front.

Russian Battleships have good frontal Firepower from Tier 7. The Guns are high Calliber and quite accurate with high Shell Speed.

Am 23.1.2021 um 19:23, Pukovnik7 sagte:

- good AAA suite

Am 23.1.2021 um 19:23, Pukovnik7 sagte:

- good rudder response time

- high speed

- tight turn circle

 

Both the US and French BBs have good AA. But the Russian AA is still OK.

You normally can´t have both high Speed and a tight turn circle.

Both the French BBs and the US BBs from the North Carolina Line have high Speed and a decent turn circle and ruddershift Time for her Size and Lengh

Lower Tier American BBs and US BBS from the Kansas LIne have good ruddershift Times and a tight turn Circle, but are Slow.

The Warspite is actually the best BB if you want tight turns.

Russian BBs are reasonable fast but not very maneuverable.

Am 23.1.2021 um 19:23, Pukovnik7 sagte:

- moderate-to-good armour

 

The US BBs and the French BBs have Good Over-All Armor.

The Russians have Good Armor too, but only when angled.

Everything that is not named Kremlin will be deleted if it shows his Side in the Russian Line

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On 1/23/2021 at 7:29 PM, ColonelPete said:

You were already told that.

Once again you failed to answer the question, as the OP himself explains. 

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3 minutes ago, rimmer_the said:

Once again you failed to answer the question, as the OP himself explains. 

Once again you miss the context.

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On 2/1/2021 at 2:55 PM, ColonelPete said:

Once again you miss the context.

Once again you were caught with your low-quality thread sniping with your pants down. Dont snipe a thread with boring, meaningless attacks on the OP or contentless trolling.

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4 hours ago, rimmer_the said:

Once again you were caught with your low-quality thread sniping with your pants down. Dont snipe a thread with boring, meaningless attacks on the OP or contentless trolling.

After your false accusations in the other thread, it obvious that you do not have trouble understanding me, but that you are just pretending to misunderstand me.

 

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