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Kutfroat

Yeah...now Cruisers are useless...

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...you can make DD work after rework. BB now rule the Sea with Dead Eye and kill every Cruiser that gets random spotted by CV within the first 2 minutes with Dead Eye Skill. Extra, extra slow "*edit* WG" clap.

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My two cruiser games today worked fine, contrary to my DD games where my BB just camped the spawn or even the border.

Spoiler

444366189_shot-26_06.15_12_25.37-0280Results.thumb.jpg.f275bbe698ec732fac0eae526b6847d8.jpg

 

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[IRON7]
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I'd like to see PM come back for Cruisers.

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[OHFK]
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DDs are the most screwed over class. Period.

 

We're the poor schmucks that get shoved into no mans land, without a helmet and a handful of grenades. it's just comical.

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I have a Question.

You can use Demoman on Cruisers with a Claiber of 149mm or lower to gain a 10% Buff to He and SAP Shells.

You can use Armor-Piercing Cruiser  for Cruisers with a Caliber of 190mm or higher to get 5% higher AP-Damage.

But what do you do if your Cruiser has a Caliber between 149 and 190mm?

If you use Demoman with a Caliber greater than 149mm you will get a 15% Concealment Nerf.

But Cruisers need a good Concealment or they will be Spottet first.

If they turn away right at the Start of the Match to avoid getting Spottet first, than this can result your Teams BBs and Destroyers turning away as well because they think that they do not have enough Support.

Strong Flanks can retreat because of this leaving the Cap to a Weaker Enemy Force.

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[ONE2]
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12 hours ago, Kutfroat said:

...you can make DD work after rework. BB now rule the Sea with Dead Eye and kill every Cruiser that gets random spotted by CV within the first 2 minutes with Dead Eye Skill. Extra, extra slow "fu.k you WG" clap.

I don't see what the major problem is. The ship performance does not critically depend on commander skills anyways. I played some 20+ games today, half of them without having taken on ANY skills for my commanders yet (just testing to see, You know) and the other half after I had taken them on. Funnily enough both my damage done and win ratio were actually higher when playing without any skills for some reason. :Smile_amazed:

 

Sure they give a small buff and are indeed cute, convenient, spiffy and even quite helpful but you should not be fully dependent on them in order to manage. With a bit of care one can play even without any skills just fine, after all the ships themselves have not changed. Methinks much of this feeling is just psychological, stumbling after suddenly losing that familiar crutch and having to learn how to walk on our own again. Try a few games without any skills and you will suddenly discover that you really don't need them to perform and be the supper-dude you always wanted all on your own. YAY!!:Smile_great:

 

Well, I found all this quite entertaining anyways... :Smile_smile:

 

Oh yeah, I do play mostly Cruisers. This change did not diminish their value or fun factor for me and I even found the changes occasionally tad advantageous compared to previous.:cap_like:

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2 hours ago, ColonelPete said:

My two cruiser games today worked fine, contrary to my DD games where my BB just camped the spawn or even the border.

  Hide contents

444366189_shot-26_06.15_12_25.37-0280Results.thumb.jpg.f275bbe698ec732fac0eae526b6847d8.jpg

 

bots

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1 hour ago, Schrowe said:

We're the poor schmucks that get shoved into no mans land, without a helmet and a handful of grenades. it's just comical.

play mid tier.

any cruisers are just food for everything else.

install autospy map mod and turn on the option to show allied aa range and stay where higher tier aa can cover you.

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3 hours ago, ColonelPete said:

My two cruiser games today worked fine, contrary to my DD games where my BB just camped the spawn or even the border.

  Reveal hidden contents

444366189_shot-26_06.15_12_25.37-0280Results.thumb.jpg.f275bbe698ec732fac0eae526b6847d8.jpg

 

Sample size is ridiculously small. Feel free to post after 100 games, as you always state. In one ship. You know it's sh*ite, why not prove it that way?

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Losers

Cruisers

Many Destroyers

Secondary battleships

 

Bigger losers

Large cruisers

Small gunned cruisers

 

Winners

Sniper battleships

CVs

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8 hours ago, Paimentaja said:

Sample size is ridiculously small. Feel free to post after 100 games, as you always state. In one ship. You know it's sh*ite, why not prove it that way?

He claimed them to be useless. That is an absolute statement. One match is enough.

 

Apart from that, I saw enough cruisers from other players doing their part yesterday. And I doubt they were all stellar players. When even average guys manage good matches in them, cruisers are far from useless.

Spoiler

Second round of testing...

shot-21_01.23_10_52.28-0900.thumb.jpg.8b7804f8c0151274baaf50ac1940def8.jpg

 

And now three cruisers at the top of the winning team, one at the top of the losing team...

shot-21_01.23_11_10.59-0107.thumb.jpg.904d168e4906916a8fb93044c592d5d5.jpg

 

So useless...:Smile_smile:

https://replayswows.com/site/index/sort/uploaded_at.desc/version/77/type/3/level/8,9,10/gameMode/pvp/

 

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8 hours ago, doerhoff_damian said:

I have a Question.

You can use Demoman on Cruisers with a Claiber of 149mm or lower to gain a 10% Buff to He and SAP Shells.

You can use Armor-Piercing Cruiser  for Cruisers with a Caliber of 190mm or higher to get 5% higher AP-Damage.

But what do you do if your Cruiser has a Caliber between 149 and 190mm?

If you use Demoman with a Caliber greater than 149mm you will get a 15% Concealment Nerf.

But Cruisers need a good Concealment or they will be Spottet first.

If they turn away right at the Start of the Match to avoid getting Spottet first, than this can result your Teams BBs and Destroyers turning away as well because they think that they do not have enough Support.

Strong Flanks can retreat because of this leaving the Cap to a Weaker Enemy Force.

 

Its not like that those skills increase the damage in any meaningful way.

F.e. 10% more HE damage for 152mm caliber Cruisers, thats like 250~ on maxdamage, which ofc doesnt mean anything. With a pen, thats 82 more damage. If the area is saturated (which happens faster ofc when dealing more damage, so outcome is the same, only happens slightly faster) it drops down to 41 more damage.

Totaly not worth to lose 15% concealment.

 

How about AP?

Hindenburg has very good AP, atlest damage wise. 5% more thats 295 more damage on a CITADEL hit. Or 97 with a pen, 30 on an overpen. Is that actually worth using for 3 skill points? Before they nerfed it to 5%, i think 7% would have been ok for BCs like Stalingrad, as they can convert a lot of shots into citadels, but even with 5% more damage we are only talking 460 more on a citadel. When does such a small increase in damage actually matter?

 

Most of the new cruiser skills are just outright garbage or useless.

 

8 hours ago, Schrowe said:

DDs are the most screwed over class. Period. 

 

Atleast they got a skill to migitate damage from Cruisers (Dazzle) which ofc is the most crucial time especially when being radared. Being radared in a bad spot could lose tons of health, now you have 15 sec period getting less damage where you can run away or turn around.

So in the end, player Cruisers aggressively to help your DD or radar the enemy DD was made harder than before. Especially with BBs being more accurate now (if they know how to aim).

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Only done a little testing I have mostly found playing cruiser aggressively supporting my DDs to be harder, kiting away /damage farming is still pretty viable though but I’m not a huge fan of not being able to dictate the flow of the battle in that fashion.

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[R3B3L]
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(here was a long text about my struggle with the current situation but who cares but won´t bother you with that)

 

18 minutes ago, lovelacebeer said:

playing cruiser aggressively supporting my DDs to be harder

Yes, a lot. DDs yell for my radar (still about Donskoi). Planes come, DD smokes up (can´t blame him). I see no-one, they see me thanks to planes. Shells come flying from five angles. Just dodge, yeah. My DD loses his cruiser and has to retreat, the flank falls.

 

I see people rage-quit, how a ship next to me simply stops reacting after losing 90% health to the first salvo of a BB 20km away. Crashes into an island and stays there for the remainder of the game, while engines are running and turrets all pointing at the same spot. But what shall they do when a ship that outranges them by 5km and overmatches their bow now also gets insane accuracy? Plus, the cruiser also gets no tanky-skills nor -in some cases- heal.

 

So far I tried Mogami, Donskoi and Myoko-clones - plus some DDs and BBs. Everything works except the cruisers.

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[TORAZ]
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Haven't found any problem playing cruisers, or any other class for that matter, mainly because the playerbase is at such a bad state right now. sadge.

There are some exceptions, like dm and woc, mainly because the enemy team don't want to play the game, but it was the same thing before the update.

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15 minutes ago, Captaindanz said:

Haven't found any problem playing cruisers, or any other class for that matter, mainly because the playerbase is at such a bad state right now. sadge.

There are some exceptions, like dm and woc, mainly because the enemy team don't want to play the game, but it was the same thing before the update.

Have you tried playing Hipper, Myoko, Mogami, Edin? Even Alaska got shafted hard...

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3 minutes ago, Humorpalanta said:

Have you tried playing Hipper, Myoko, Mogami, Edin? Even Alaska got shafted hard...

I played the takao, haven't played the edin and i hated the hipper, there shouldn't be any problem playing the myoko or any one the cruisers you mentioned, i guess you can drop the concealment, and pick top grade gunner on your alaska, in which case you don't need a radar so you can take a spotter plane, but if you will do that you might as well pick the drake...

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[BYOB]
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High tier cruiser gameplay has been severely nerfed. You get spotted quickly, no chance to counterspot, and then spawn campers with dead eye just delete you.

The only way to play is as a long range HE spammer, which is ret@rded. Some ships, like Mainz with it's bad concealment, have no chance whatsoever.

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Vor 4 Minuten, Aragathor sagte:

High tier cruiser gameplay has been severely nerfed. You get spotted quickly, no chance to counterspot, and then spawn campers with dead eye just delete you.

The only way to play is as a long range HE spammer, which is ret@rded. Some ships, like Mainz with it's bad concealment, have no chance whatsoever.

 

Why do you get spotted quicker?

I played a couple of games with the Des Moines and I cannot detect any significant changes. Actually, I was able to achieve the same commander skills with 18 instead of 19 points which allows me to additionally spec the AP improvement. 

 

I also tested a very aggressive built on the Bayard with maximum concealment and even survivability expert (yes!) which also worked quite well. However, I dot not like this extra he dmg buff. But you can create wonderful, long range farm builts with that, if you prefer. 

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Just now, Trench4nt said:

 

Why do you get spotted quicker?

I played a couple of games with the Des Moines and I cannot detect any significant changes. Actually, I was able to achieve the same commander skills with 18 instead of 19 points which allows me to additionally spec the AP improvement. 

 

I also tested a very aggressive built on the Bayard with maximum concealment and even survivability expert (yes!) which also worked quite well. However, I dot not like this extra he dmg buff. But you can create wonderful, long range farm builts with that, if you prefer. 

Not "quicker" but "quickly", two different words. Enemy DDs have the tendency to push.

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Gerade eben, Aragathor sagte:

Not "quicker" but "quickly", two different words. Enemy DDs have the tendency to push.

Okay, but this is a general phenomenon and the current commander rework does not influence that?

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30 minutes ago, Humorpalanta said:

Have you tried playing Hipper, Myoko, Mogami, Edin? Even Alaska got shafted hard...

Saw you triggering Flamuu yesterday!! :cap_haloween:

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8 minutes ago, Trench4nt said:

Okay, but this is a general phenomenon and the current commander rework does not influence that?

No, this is new. With the dearth of cruisers or cruisers hanging back, the DD players are very aggressive.

Never seen so many cap rushes by DDs. I even saw an IJN DD push through a cap into the enemy spawn with no counterplay, and not once but several times.

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11 minutes ago, Trench4nt said:

Okay, but this is a general phenomenon and the current commander rework does not influence that?

 

Yes and no.

The problem is more that the battleships will hang back and avoid getting spotted which means that the first target being lit up will be the centre of attention. If you play your cruisers slightly aggressively in the way that you will be spotted before your destroyers get spotted, you will be that target. Even if you play normally and remain undetected until the destroyers engage each other, the battleships are more likely to target you due to the larger size and possibility of citadels/regular penetrations.

 

As such, it won't be long til most games are long-range camping competitions since pushing is now more risky than before. This also means that the destroyers are even more free to do what they want, especially torpedoboats which have more room to be useless spam torpedoes without contesting caps and gunboats which are confident that they can win the destroyer-destroyer engagements.

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