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Why does AA on some DD look idioticly strong

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I was playing my carrier with new skills .. even selected 2 armor skills for my A.Parseval .. i attacked a ostergotland and a friesland with 9 plains and got deleted within 1 min (not in the same game , but 1 in each game .. DD was ALONE) 

I dont know if it's me but they look way to overpowered .. i can't remeber it bieng that idioticly strong before the patch .. they had strong AA , but this beats everything.

To me it looks like they have to look at it again if this is normal

 

Cheers

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30 minutes ago, Ramses_68 said:

i attacked a ostergotland and a friesland with 9 plains and got deleted within 1 min

You mean that in your ignorance you attacked two DDs that are specialized in AA and got deleted? Seems perfectly normal.

If you had attacked a half dead Yugumo that ate a Goliath salvo, then we could talk, but this?

 

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nope it was one at a time . not at the same time .. sorry .. told it a bit wrong .. im dutch so my english aint perfect

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3 hours ago, Ramses_68 said:

 i can't remeber it bieng that idioticly strong before the patch .. they had strong AA , but this beats everything.

To me it looks like they have to look at it again if this is normal

Even before the patch you could not fly around in their AA for a minute.

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Typical CV player, cant kill the AA DDs and come complain but dont worry, next patch WG is going to give you a button to just kill any ship you like (for gold of course) you dont need to even  launch your planes.

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14 hours ago, Ramses_68 said:

I was playing my carrier with new skills .. even selected 2 armor skills for my A.Parseval .. i attacked a ostergotland and a friesland with 9 plains and got deleted within 1 min (not in the same game , but 1 in each game .. DD was ALONE) 

I dont know if it's me but they look way to overpowered .. i can't remeber it bieng that idioticly strong before the patch .. they had strong AA , but this beats everything.

To me it looks like they have to look at it again if this is normal

 

Cheers

Friesland and Östergotland exchange their smoke for a comprehensive AA Suite, if you locate them strike fast and retreat otherwise you will be prone to lose a lot of planes.

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19 hours ago, Ramses_68 said:

I was playing my carrier with new skills .. even selected 2 armor skills for my A.Parseval .. i attacked a ostergotland and a friesland with 9 plains and got deleted within 1 min (not in the same game , but 1 in each game .. DD was ALONE) 

I dont know if it's me but they look way to overpowered .. i can't remeber it bieng that idioticly strong before the patch .. they had strong AA , but this beats everything.

To me it looks like they have to look at it again if this is normal

 

Cheers

And this kids is why WG put a russian CV with built-in anti-ships missiles into the game. At least it exists and is not a paper ship.

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On 1/21/2021 at 4:12 PM, Ramses_68 said:

I was playing my carrier with new skills .. even selected 2 armor skills for my A.Parseval .. i attacked a ostergotland and a friesland with 9 plains and got deleted within 1 min (not in the same game , but 1 in each game .. DD was ALONE) 

I dont know if it's me but they look way to overpowered .. i can't remeber it bieng that idioticly strong before the patch .. they had strong AA , but this beats everything.

To me it looks like they have to look at it again if this is normal

 

Cheers

Clearly AA needs nerfing because CV should definitely be able to attack and delete everything without consequence or losses. 

 

CV need buffs, maybe swap out all of the prop driven planes for F-18s with harpoon anti ship missles?

 

World of Warships - the thinking mans game....

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On 21/01/2021 at 5:12 PM, Ramses_68 said:

I was playing my carrier with new skills .. even selected 2 armor skills for my A.Parseval .. i attacked a ostergotland and a friesland with 9 plains and got deleted within 1 min (not in the same game , but 1 in each game .. DD was ALONE) 

I dont know if it's me but they look way to overpowered .. i can't remeber it bieng that idioticly strong before the patch .. they had strong AA , but this beats everything.

To me it looks like they have to look at it again if this is normal

 

Cheers

A CV player complaining that a DD's are overpowered. This made my Sunday. Thanks for that 😊

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As everyone said, EU DDs have great AA so, if a T8 CV goes near an Ostergoland, Halland, Friesland or Smaland with her planes, they will get deleted almost instantly. 

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On 1/23/2021 at 8:49 AM, JohnMac79 said:

Clearly AA needs nerfing because CV should definitely be able to attack and delete everything without consequence or losses. 

 

CV need buffs, maybe swap out all of the prop driven planes for F-18s with harpoon anti ship missles?

 

World of Warships - the thinking mans game....

Don't give them ideas lmao

 

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On 1/21/2021 at 5:45 PM, Aragathor said:

You mean that in your ignorance you attacked two DDs that are specialized in AA and got deleted? Seems perfectly normal.

If you had attacked a half dead Yugumo that ate a Goliath salvo, then we could talk, but this?

 

even tho i dont disagree  i must say  the aa on those dd's is just stupit especialy since they will hit you before you see them so losing half your squadron from a random flak burst out of nowhere suck and should not be in the game nor should a dd be able to counter a cv in any way shape of for they already  destroy bb's and where the original reason for a slow meta then we got dd's that destroy most normal cruisers (haru kita french line) and now we have dd's that destroy cv's and especialy t8 cv's goin up against those things is not even close to fair. i know people hate cv's but having dd's that can do this crap should not be a thing. imagine if we would have rapidfire batleships that had 100% torp imunity  that have 100 % vision uptime vs dd's since that is pretymutch what those ships are to cv's.

 

On 1/23/2021 at 4:19 AM, JohnMac79 said:

Clearly AA needs nerfing because CV should definitely be able to attack and delete everything without consequence or losses. 

 

CV need buffs, maybe swap out all of the prop driven planes for F-18s with harpoon anti ship missles?

 

World of Warships - the thinking mans game....

so you dont want cv's to do it but when dd's did it for years it was fine ? bit hypocritical imo.

 

dd's should be the equivilant of light tanks in wot yet they are more like a rogue in wow they are half the cause of the issues in the meta the rest being deadeye and cv-surface ship interaction

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31 minutes ago, booimbuu said:

so you dont want cv's to do it but when dd's did it for years it was fine ? bit hypocritical imo.

No it is not because the problems described in the thread sadly are personal ones, even with a strong AA Suit like Hallands you get stuck hard by Planes, even going so far that the cv can sacrifice whole attackwings and still hase one strike to comeback.

The intereaction may be hard at the beginning but if you use your head before hunting a halland or friesland you can murder or avoid them entirely.

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1 minute ago, DasTongle said:

No it is not because the problems described in the thread sadly are personal ones, even with a strong AA Suit like Hallands you get stuck hard by Planes, even going so far that the cv can sacrifice whole attackwings and still hase one strike to comeback.

The intereaction may be hard at the beginning but if you use your head before hunting a halland or friesland you can murder or avoid them entirely.

yes you can stack one squadron  cool but you 1 wont kill him on one squadron  it takes on average 2-4 squadrons to kill them solo without your team and you should NEVER try and kill them solo as its a waste of planes

tell your team you are going to spot him and pray they shoot thats honnestly the best strat to deal with them + getting hit hard bye planes ? what cv hits a dd hard at this stage ?  both the baseline usa and ijn rockets are pretty meh they are not even equal to a citadel from a bb on a ca  inj bombs and torps are useless and usn bombs are quite good at killing them true but how many cv's do you see hit double bombs on dd's especialy halland and smalland , not many stil going up the german and brittish cv line myself but i never seem to even get focused bye them in my dd's so i assume they lack the tools to do so. if its some of the premiums fair nuff but then thats a ship issue and not a class issue.

 

The actual problem is that ships like halland and smalland make the diffrence between a good and bad cv player just THAT mutch bigger so making  ,1 the cv rework pointless 2, infuritating the player base even more as losing becous you have the worse cv player and are up against a ship no other class even has a chance of dealing with is not fun for anyone except the guy in the halland/smalland ,3 it forces more powercreep in order to make ships to actuly balance out ships like halland as i dont think anyone can say that those ships are balanced when the prettymutch replaced all other dd's at certain levels of play. dont forget that for a suposed hard to play ship so a ship that should have a lower then average winrate becouse potato's playing it should cause it to drop halland is sitting at 51% and smalland at 54.72% winrate meanwhile midway is at 47..25 when its bye far the easiest cv to play only 2 cv's sit at 50+% winrate and none come even close to smalland's 54.72 to put that into perspective a ship like musashi that is just flat out op comes in at 53.72% so for a class that according to everyone i hear is crap and completly useless becouse of cv's it manages to outpreform probebly the best bb tier for tier.

 

So either musashi is a useless ship and deserves buffs or smalland is overtuned and could use some adjustments

 

tldr in the 200.000 games braket only somers and the könig albert do better in winrate

 

 

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Am 5.2.2021 um 11:16, booimbuu sagte:

cause it to drop halland is sitting at 51% and smalland at 54.72% winrate meanwhile midway is at 47..25 when its bye far the easiest cv to play only 2 cv's sit at 50+%

Winrate has not so much to do with the actuall strength of the ship, but more "which" players play this ship mostly. Smalland you only can get for 2mio freexp. One can guess that there are more decent players in Smallands then you might see in any tech-tree DD. And don't worry, Hallands winrate will go down, as more and more trash players will get this ship in future, European DD's are still relatively new to the game. So less bad players have played them so far compared to older lines... 

Winrate is more affected by players then the actuall ship itself. Same goes for german BB's. So many trash players play german BB's becasue they saw on youtube that they have turtleback and can't be citadeled... So instead of dying in 5 minutes, they now die "only" in 7 minutes, more "success" for them, but still losing them so many battles and giving german BB's a lower winrate then they deserve... It's that simple...

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10 minutes ago, Echo_519 said:

Winrate has not so much to do with the actuall strength of the ship, but more "which" players play this ship mostly. Smalland you only can get for 2mio freexp. One can guess that there are more decent players in Smallands then you might see in any tech-tree DD. And don't worry, Hallands winrate will go down, as more and more trash players will get this ship in future, European DD's are still relatively new to the game. So less bad players have played them so far compared to older lines... 

Winrate is more affected by players then the actuall ship itself. Same goes for german BB's. So many trash players play german BB's becasue they saw on youtube that they have turtleback and can't be citadeled... So instead of dying in 5 minutes, they now die "only" in 7 minutes, more "success" for them, but still losing them so many battles and giving german BB's a lower winrate then they deserve... It's that simple...

did you even read what i wrote and what ships i listed ?

and besides lets take a steel ship then even harder to get then the free exp ships

 

stalingrad the single most meta ship ever in wows is currently sitting at a 56.01 % winwrate 1so 01.26% higer then smalland and then lets take into consideration that smalland does better into cv's witch are not always there every game so negatively impacting that part of its gameplay  if you where forced to play with a cv every game im pretty shure smalland would beat out stalin then.

And then how do you explain that in  any form of competetive game play smalland halland are bye far the most popular dd's ?

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or if we put it up against a ship that no one says is weak slava 52.88 with only 166 055  battles played as of writing so is slava weak now ? is it easy to get ? no.

its just a simple fact the pan eu dd's are over tuned they are suposed to be hard ships but as halland shows even the average potato can make it work quite easly and the unicum players utterly destroy games with it

 

and as mutch as i would like to see it get nerfed i know it will not be as it is a free exp ship but it should be vaulted asap (smalland) halland is a whole other issue but also should get some nerfs imo detect and/or torp speed/damage/reload

and sadly there is no way not to piss of everyone at this stage they should never have released in this state  same as thunderer slava  stalin ect.. sadly wg does not care about actual balance anymore  i think of the last few ships that got released

petro nevsky fdr are just some that jump to mind that are all extremely un balanced imo or just make older ships irelivant  so our normal way of looking at ships just does not work  anymore ships like slava thunderer  petro smalland are the new baseline i only expect to see more utterly broken ships to be released locked behind more hard to get currency's that will in a year or 2 make smalland and slava look like the z-52

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Vor 6 Stunden, booimbuu sagte:

did you even read what i wrote and what ships i listed ?

and besides lets take a steel ship then even harder to get then the free exp ships

 

stalingrad the single most meta ship ever in wows is currently sitting at a 56.01 % winwrate 1so 01.26% higer then smalland and then lets take into consideration that smalland does better into cv's witch are not always there every game so negatively impacting that part of its gameplay  if you where forced to play with a cv every game im pretty shure smalland would beat out stalin then.

And then how do you explain that in  any form of competetive game play smalland halland are bye far the most popular dd's ?

Smalland has a stealthradar. That's why so many people use it in competitive. 

What do you think why Smalland is one of the rarest ships in randoms?

Becasue there are only so few people that actually have it. And those that have it are generally better players then the average shimakaze player...

With Steel ships, research buro and freexp ships, the average player that plays those ships is simply better then the average avegrage player, thus the ships getting higher overall winrate then others. You are trying to compate stats from ships with significantly different playerskills.Trust me, if smalland was available for everyone just for free, it's winrate would lay well below 50%, just like smolensk's winrate. Unless you want to tell us that smolensk really is that bad and needs a buff? In which case i'd have some more questions for you.....

 

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5 hours ago, Echo_519 said:

Smalland has a stealthradar. That's why so many people use it in competitive. 

What do you think why Smalland is one of the rarest ships in randoms?

Becasue there are only so few people that actually have it. And those that have it are generally better players then the average shimakaze player...

With Steel ships, research buro and freexp ships, the average player that plays those ships is simply better then the average avegrage player, thus the ships getting higher overall winrate then others. You are trying to compate stats from ships with significantly different playerskills.Trust me, if smalland was available for everyone just for free, it's winrate would lay well below 50%, just like smolensk's winrate. Unless you want to tell us that smolensk really is that bad and needs a buff? In which case i'd have some more questions for you.....

 

you again refuse to read i took ships with similar ammount of games played as examples, some of the newer steel and coal ships are actuly more rare at this point then free exp ships and more potatos will have free exp ships then steel ships so it should have a lower win rate but it does not even its main line counterpart has an above average winrate even tho it is  prettymutch a inferior version

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23 hours ago, booimbuu said:

you again refuse to read i took ships with similar ammount of games played as examples, some of the newer steel and coal ships are actuly more rare at this point then free exp ships and more potatos will have free exp ships then steel ships so it should have a lower win rate but it does not even its main line counterpart has an above average winrate even tho it is  prettymutch a inferior version

Not many potatoes will spend 2 mln on Smalland before getting Alaska and other 1 mln ships and by this time they should be no longer be considered potatoes. Did you for a moment thought that Halland and Smalland are so OP because actually CVs are brokenly OP vs DDs and those who have a bit of a chance to defend themselves against their biggest counter will be more successful? And why do you want to be able to kill without any counter every single ship? If anything you are right in one way, power creep is terrible in this game so I think that all dds should have AA buffed instead of WG's stupid messing with the rockets making them useless like they did with TTs. 

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OP is talking about him, in his Parseval, a ship that is hardly suited to attack DD's , attacking an AA-focused DD's and losing his planes. This issue here is that OP doesn't know the characteristics of the ships he is playing with/against, and he is learning the hard way.

 

Thread has passed into overall winrate. Which is a useless statistic. I played Lion and Thunderer yesterday and in the battles I won, the ships winrate went down because there were multiple Lions/Thunderers on the enemy team. Winrate says nothing.

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On 2/5/2021 at 11:16 AM, booimbuu said:

snip

I agree, we shouldn't have DDs with stronger AA than cruisers.

So bring back specialized cruisers as we knew thel before CE rework.

When that happens you can normalize Halland AA levels.

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4 hours ago, CountDF said:

OP is talking about him, in his Parseval, a ship that is hardly suited to attack DD's , attacking an AA-focused DD's and losing his planes. This issue here is that OP doesn't know the characteristics of the ships he is playing with/against, and he is learning the hard way.

 

Thread has passed into overall winrate. Which is a useless statistic. I played Lion and Thunderer yesterday and in the battles I won, the ships winrate went down because there were multiple Lions/Thunderers on the enemy team. Winrate says nothing.

Correct, the Friesland is a AA destroyer from the 1950s with autocannons and radarguided hitchance 99% and has a very small AA detection rate.

And the Swedish one has almost the same gear.

 

I try t switch off the AA untill the planes are very near so the first blow is hard. Still CV player can still sink me if they are decent enough.

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On 2/8/2021 at 2:28 AM, DariusJacek said:

. Did you for a moment thought that Halland and Smalland are so OP because actually CVs are brokenly OP vs DDs and those who have a bit of a chance to defend themselves against their biggest counter will be more successful? And why do you want to be able to kill without any counter every single ship?

so you think  dd's should be the only class without another class to counter them ? well that shows where you stand XD + cv's have been nerfed into the ground vs dd's sadly imo wg completely ruined there balancing after the rework they should have buffed there anti dd and support aspects while nerfing there CA and BB damage sadly wg is doing the oposite and yet again letting dd's run free ( last 4 games i remeber playing 4 dd's top both teams clearly underpowerd)

this game was intended to have a rock paper scissors sytem  but ships like halland and smalland and even klebere and haru make this extremely hard to do as they completely brake the mold and even tho i get it that you want cool new things its because of ships like that. that the game gets longer and longer rang and more and more passive then add on top that only cv's can realy deal with them but that also at the same time they are way easier to use vs ca's and bb's and can bully them out you have a massive problem then you add ONE skill that makes a passive playstile possible and you get the mess we have now.

 

Its clear that those ships are problematic and should be reworked if not the dd and cv classes entirely as both have  extremely toxic interactions with all other ship classes and require special rules to either be viable or not utterly broken

and if wg can't do it then remove one and rework the other one and since so many layers ahte cv's im not even completely against removing them but then you would have to completely rework the spotting system spotting exp system and rework/nerrf every dd in the game and probebly have to refund  who knows how mutch to players since people dont want to play a support role and dd's in a assasin role like they where pre cv rework without cv in the game is so toxic to play  against for bb's and ca's that will cause them to leave. this is wy cv's are needed to keep dd's in line and if you have ships like halland/smalland are are fine with them then i suggest that wg makes a bb that goes 40knts 80% torp belt and rapidfire lockon missiles with a stealth radar and then we can let halland/smalland's see what it is to play against a ship that prettymutch does the same as there ship does

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49 minutes ago, booimbuu said:

so you think  dd's should be the only class without another class to counter them ? well that shows where you stand XD + cv's have been nerfed into the ground vs dd's sadly imo wg completely ruined there balancing after the rework they should have buffed there anti dd and support aspects while nerfing there CA and BB damage sadly wg is doing the oposite and yet again letting dd's run free ( last 4 games i remeber playing 4 dd's top both teams clearly underpowerd)

this game was intended to have a rock paper scissors sytem  but ships like halland and smalland and even klebere and haru make this extremely hard to do as they completely brake the mold and even tho i get it that you want cool new things its because of ships like that. that the game gets longer and longer rang and more and more passive then add on top that only cv's can realy deal with them but that also at the same time they are way easier to use vs ca's and bb's and can bully them out you have a massive problem then you add ONE skill that makes a passive playstile possible and you get the mess we have now.

 

Its clear that those ships are problematic and should be reworked if not the dd and cv classes entirely as both have  extremely toxic interactions with all other ship classes and require special rules to either be viable or not utterly broken

and if wg can't do it then remove one and rework the other one and since so many layers ahte cv's im not even completely against removing them but then you would have to completely rework the spotting system spotting exp system and rework/nerrf every dd in the game and probebly have to refund  who knows how mutch to players since people dont want to play a support role and dd's in a assasin role like they where pre cv rework without cv in the game is so toxic to play  against for bb's and ca's that will cause them to leave. this is wy cv's are needed to keep dd's in line and if you have ships like halland/smalland are are fine with them then i suggest that wg makes a bb that goes 40knts 80% torp belt and rapidfire lockon missiles with a stealth radar and then we can let halland/smalland's see what it is to play against a ship that prettymutch does the same as there ship does

You showed here how little you know and understand still about this game.

Do you even know how XP works at all??? Why for DD is easier to be top XP then for CV?

CVs XP has been nerfed to hide how Op they are and to mitigate players anger against CV cowards being not only OP and always top of the team for farming damage from the safety at the back line. After rework of skills they came out even stronger. If you can't hit DD with rockets it's L2p issue.

Geez, how can you claim CVs need buffs??? It's nice and fun to kill a poor little :etc_swear: within 3 minutes but it's not fair and he has no fun at all during this and it's disgustingly easy if you are decent with CVs.

Had a few CV yesterday games and it's still too easy to kill dds as always was,  first 1-2 dead either of my own kills or my teammates by my spotting were always DDs.

Most of the time game they die first and CVs last, clearly CV need need some buffs vs DDs :Smile_facepalm:

And for your information Dds are balanced vs surface ships, countered by each other (DDs hunters-gunboats), by radar cruisers, by hydro on ships as a defensive and offensive means of spotting DDs and torps (the most unreliable weapon in the game BTW) and teams do not need on the top of it all CVs to kill and spot them.  If you take concealment away from DDs what is left? Lowest damage, lowest health pool, often no heal, always on the first line risking the most. If those are so easy to run free and wreck havoc why so many complains about potato DDs?

I play both DDs and CVs and from perspective of a fairly good player in both can tell you that you are wrong and interaction is wrong and heavily in a favour of CVs still even after recent changes. 

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