Give us our DD builds back!

[Stormhawk_V]

Unlike the other classes all the old skills are still there for DDs. Some had their values adjusted, others got a new name, but they're still here. However, it's now impossible to recreate previously common builds even though we can grind two additional skill points. Depending on the DD in question we're forced to give up Priority Target, firepower, consumables or something even more important and that's for a captain who already has 21 points compared to a 19-pointer from before the rework.

 

Two of three combinations could be easily restored simply by putting Last Stand into the first row of skills. You already did that for cruisers, a class where only certain tech-trees profit from it, while each and every DD wants Last Stand ASAP. This would also help commanders with much less skill points, as they didn't have to wait for Priority Target until much later.

 

The third combination is every build that used Basic Firing Training which is now called 'Main Battery and AA Specialist'. I don't know why you felt the need to nerf this skill into the ground, but a 5% reload buff isn't worth 3 points and please don't tell me this one is about the AA, because 10% additional continuous is literally meaningless on the vast majority of DDs. In the past the skill was never picked for its AA buff. Also don't tell me it was too much for 3 points as you just gave cruisers two 3-pointers that increase HE and SAP damage by 10 and torpedo damage by 15(!)%.

 

Please change this as DDs have already suffered enough from your 'improvements' over the past two years.

 

If you'd like to see this changed, too react with thumbsup.

[Montrala]

Yes, new skill tree for DDs is universal nerf for DDs, but most affected seem to be DD-hunter builds, that need at same time concealment, dpm and RPF. Now you need to sacrifice one.

[Isoruku_Yamamoto]

36 minutes ago, Montrala said:

Yes, new skill tree for DDs is universal nerf for DDs, but most affected seem to be DD-hunter builds, that need at same time concealment, dpm and RPF. Now you need to sacrifice one.

To be fair, if thats the case specifically id be for it- ships like Z52, Halland, Smaland, cossack/ daring screwed up the DD meta for long enough.

But i havent checked the skills myself yet, so dunno how it looks precisely

[Full_HP_Satsuma_at_J5]

30 minutes ago, Isoruku_Yamamoto said:

To be fair, if thats the case specifically id be for it- ships like Z52, Halland, Smaland, cossack/ daring screwed up the DD meta for long enough.

But i havent checked the skills myself yet, so dunno how it looks precisely

 

 

As an avid Cossack & Smaland player it hurts admitting it, but these ships were insanely strong with the old commander skills in the right hands, a slight DPM nerf won't hurt them that much. Smaland is even getting compensated (sort of) with "Fearless Brawler", pretty much a must-have skill if you play her as an open water gunboat like me.

[Stormhawk_V]

Well, they could also leave BFT at 5% and just reduce the cost of Last Stand. This alone would be a huge improvement for DDs that like Superintendant or the torpedo reload skill.

[Hirohito]

1 hour ago, Montrala said:

Yes, new skill tree for DDs is universal nerf for DDs, but most affected seem to be DD-hunter builds, that need at same time concealment, dpm and RPF. Now you need to sacrifice one.

Might be, but I never took BFT personally for those boats (Daring/Småland) so it should work out, at least for me personally.
Haven't checked the new skills yet, but as long as I can still afford CE, RPF and SI I'm content (and to be fair, Daring doesnt even need SI that bad).
And if I have to blow a few million commander XP to get back up to where it was, then so be it.

[Ocsimano18]

Watching Flamu contemplating his new DD builds... It seems that for DDs we have achieved the intended purpose of having more than one viable builds, as you have to choose which good skill to sacrifice.

[Aragathor]

6 minutes ago, Ocsimano18 said:

Watching Flamu contemplating his new DD builds... It seems that for DDs we have achieved the intended purpose of having more than one viable builds, as you have to choose which good skill to sacrifice.

Yeah, it's the "what is least $hit" now. Great improvement.

[Stormhawk_V]

Just now, Aragathor said:

Yeah, it's now the "what is least $hit" now. Great improvement.

I was going to write a longer answer but this just hits the nail on the head.

[Verblonde]

On 1/21/2021 at 7:57 AM, Aragathor said:

Great improvement.

One thing that strikes me (having done an initial 21 point build, and a 19 pointer - Gearing, and Halland/Smaland, respectively) is that there is another 'urge to spend' built in to the new system:

• It's relatively 'easy' to get to 19 points, but disproportionately harder to get to 21 points (as we all know).
• In other words, we are likely to spend a lot of time working with 'only' 19 points.
• In consequence, if you don't want unused captain points sitting around, you'll be tempted to build your captain(s) to be optimal - as much as possible - at 19 points, and then potentially rebuild them when you hit 21 (basically swapping a 21 point skill, say, for a 4 point one, or something like that).
• Of course, once the free respec is done, that'll cost you doubloons.

So, to avoid this spend, there is perhaps something to be said for coming up with a 17 point build that you can live with, rather than going all the way to 19 (in terms of assigned points)...?

[Uglesett]

2 hours ago, Montrala said:

Yes, new skill tree for DDs is universal nerf for DDs

I'm not entirely convinced of this. Yes, DDs lose some build options, and I suspect some DDs will come off far worse. But overall, I suspect the changes may be a net buff to DDs as a class (at least in games with no CVs in them). Between skill changes that seem designed to push cruisers further away from anything interesting and the "Nimble" skill, DDs could potentially become significantly easier to keep floating.

 

I suspect we'll see even more games that are determined by which team has DD players that can best win what is effectively solo duels against other DDs.

[invicta2012]

3 hours ago, Stormhawk_V said:

Two of three combinations could be easily restored simply by putting Last Stand into the first row of skills. You already did that for cruisers, a class where only certain tech-trees profit from it, while each and every DD wants Last Stand ASAP. This would also help commanders with much less skill points, as they didn't have to wait for Priority Target until much later.

WG might say that they've given everyone Last Stand with regard to their engine (it can never be knocked out, only knocked down to 20% efficacy) and that PM (which is a 1 pt skill) would give you a much reduced chance of needing LS.

 

I don't agree, btw, and the fact that the minimum decent DD captain now needs 12, not 10 points and that BFT's replacement is a higher cost/lower utility skill is a pretty major nerf to many players, not to mention the overall awful consequences for low point captains.

[The_Chiv]

DD hunting is still a thing, you all just need to actually do it for once or at the very least spot the them.

[tocqueville8]

DD-wise, the rework is a buff to torpedoboats and a nerf to gunboats, which is fine imho:

1) torpedoboats are less likely to take damage, so the increase cost of Adrenaline Rush is not as bad for them;

2) torpedoboats can get a cheap skill to improve flooding chances, particularly good for German and Pan EU DDs;

3) torpedo Acceleration gives less speed (only 3-5 kts instead of a flat 5), but you don't give up any range for it, which used to be the reason it was so rare;

4) a new skill improves ship speed as long as one maintains stealth, which again is better for stalking;

5) torpedoboats were less likely to take BFT, which has been nerfed.

[Stormhawk_V]

26 minutes ago, tocqueville8 said:

DD-wise, the rework is a buff to torpedoboats and a nerf to gunboats, which is fine imho:

1) torpedoboats are less likely to take damage, so the increase cost of Adrenaline Rush is not as bad for them;

2) torpedoboats can get a cheap skill to improve flooding chances, particularly good for German and Pan EU DDs;

3) torpedo Acceleration gives less speed (only 3-5 kts instead of a flat 5), but you don't give up any range for it, which used to be the reason it was so rare;

4) a new skill improves ship speed as long as one maintains stealth, which again is better for stalking;

5) torpedoboats were less likely to take BFT, which has been nerfed.

Do you refer to Distraction with 1)? The skill is trash for the cost. You have to give up a lot to fit it into your build. Stuff that actually gives you hard buffs instead of better RNG.

Do you know how flooding chance is calculated? 30% is basically nothing.

Torpedo acceleration is now worse because it's percentage based. Only reaches the original 5 knots on Pan-EU DDs.

Again too expensive for the cost. Can't fit it into good builds.

 

I fail to see how any kind of DD gets better with this. Even Marceau was better off with old BFT, CE, PT instead of Ruthless+CE or Ruthless+PT.

[Iskarioth]

I so knew this was coming. Certainly didn't take long. Yes, DDs got probably shafted the most with this rework. Welcome to 2021 where things can only get better

[Stormhawk_V]

2 minutes ago, Iskarioth said:

I so knew this was coming. Certainly didn't take long. Yes, DDs got probably shafted the most with this rework. Welcome to 2021 where things can only get better

Yeah, I already adjusted my signature in advance.

[SkollUlfr]

5 minutes ago, Iskarioth said:

I so knew this was coming. Certainly didn't take long. Yes, DDs got probably shafted the most with this rework. Welcome to 2021 where things can only get better

only true for t8+

at mid tier cruisers got ganked.

[Stormhawk_V]

Just now, SkollUlfr said:

only true for t8+

at mid tier cruisers got ganked.

Ah, you know comrade, midtier cruisers got through the IFHE changes all too well, so we had to come up with something else.

 

[tocqueville8]

33 minutes ago, Stormhawk_V said:

Torpedo acceleration is now worse because it's percentage based. Only reaches the original 5 knots on Pan-EU DDs.

It's not worse: it's a straight buff, albeit a small one, instead of a tradeoff which was so bad people usually only took it on the Asashio and Gearing.

 

32 minutes ago, Stormhawk_V said:

Do you refer to Distraction with 1)

No, I'm referring to the fact that torpedoboats can do good damage while staying undetected, and they're usually stealthier as well, so they're a bit less likely to take damage, by default.

A Yugumo might get attacked by planes or radared and focused, but in many games she can do well enough just by stalking and torping, while a Tashkent has to be shooting, which exposes her to counterfire.

[Stormhawk_V]

1 hour ago, tocqueville8 said:

No, I'm referring to the fact that torpedoboats can do good damage while staying undetected, and they're usually stealthier as well, so they're a bit less likely to take damage, by default.

A Yugumo might get attacked by planes or radared and focused, but in many games she can do well enough just by stalking and torping, while a Tashkent has to be shooting, which exposes her to counterfire.

Oh, so what you want to say is that the increased cost of AR doesn't bother torpedoboats as much because they're less likely to use the skill in the first place as their playstyle doesn't involve taking damage to the same extend as a gunboat? I guess that's true to a certain extend.

[Miscommunication_dept]

Not terrible for torp boats.

Bad for gunboats.

[bloodynicknames]

3 minutes ago, gopher31 said:

Not terrible for torp boats.

Bad for gunboats.

if it werent for the fact torp boats were already kinda obsolete unless you ran deepwater. 

I mean real torp boats like shima. That ship is as ill equipped for the current meta as they get. youre practically forced into 12km since 20km is a joke and 8km is suicide range because of radar. AA is laughable and concealment on her obsolete because pretty much the CV will find you one way or the other. 
 

[anonym_cwVecOS6ecVy]

3 hours ago, Aragathor said:

Yeah, it's the "what is least $hit" now. Great improvement.

Same with "winning" if you are not a really good player who can turn everything around: Whoever gets less idiotical / braindead / afk team mates will win.

[Prophecy82]

BFT is completely worthless now. 

Great Job on making the class with the WORST AVG DMG even doing less DMG. 

 

FK WG! This really pi$$es me off. Hope the guy who thought of this gets stuck with his head in a toilet someday,