Negativity on the Commander rework - First time poster

[MaxGct]

First time poster, been playing the game for almost a year and loving it. Upfront, I am not trying to defend or criticise WG, but just trying to maintain a neutral approach based on my personal experiences from the game over this time.

 

Before I comment on the commander rework, I am still amazed by the general level of toxcity and negativity on the forums. Yes, WG have made a few mistakes, I also got the satan crate refunds, but I sincerely believe they are putting  a huge amount of love and effort into Warships. Overall, I find it to be a superb and well polished game. There is a huge team of testers and people working constantly behind the scenes to try and keep the game at these high standards while still trying to innovate and improve.

 

Now re. the commander rework, why all the complaints?:

 

1) You will still have your 19 point commanders and the same amount of skills to allocate as before. You are not losing anything or feeling left out if you do not have a 21 pointer. Just because you don't have enough to instantly get to 21 points is this a reason to throw your toys out the cot?

 

2) I am looking forward to more choices and the ability to have one commander have different skills for different classes of ships. I also have a reasonable amount of premiums and the way I understand it, your captain can still move between all these for free and if they different classes, his different skill sets kick in. 

 

3) I do agree potentially some of the skills might need balancing post-update but I would rather move forward with more dynamic and interesting choices than the current cookie cutter captain system which is a bit one dimensional and boring and doesn't help a captain when he moves between classes of ships.

 

4) We getting lots of free stuff with the update, including  1 100 doubloons for most players.

[Uglesett]

20 minutes ago, MaxGct said:

1) You will still have your 19 point commanders and the same amount of skills to allocate as before. You are not losing anything or feeling left out if you do not have a 21 pointer. Just because you don't have enough to instantly get to 21 points is this a reason to throw your toys out the cot?

Yes, and since the most useful skills have gone up in cost, a 21 point captain in the new system is basically a 19 point captain in the old system but 1.2 million exp more expensive.

 

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2) I am looking forward to more choices and the ability to have one commander have different skills for different classes of ships. I also have a reasonable amount of premiums and the way I understand it, your captain can still move between all these for free and if they different classes, his different skill sets kick in.

More choice is debatable. Aside from straight up losing some options, for the most part the same builds as before (or as close as you can get) look to be optimal.

 

And cruisers in particular are actually looking set to have less choice than now.

 

Being able to use the same captain on multiple ships is an advantage for those who have a lot of premium ships, but for players who mainly have tech tree vessels it's a loss as the captains just get more expensive.

 

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3) I do agree potentially some of the skills might need balancing post-update but I would rather move forward with more dynamic and interesting choices than the current cookie cutter captain system which is a bit one dimensional and boring and doesn't help a captain when he moves between classes of ships.

There's nothing to suggest we won't be faced with the same situation with regards to cookie cutter builds.

[Jethro_Grey]

22 minutes ago, MaxGct said:

First time poster, been playing the game for almost a year and loving it. Upfront, I am not trying to defend or criticise WG, but just trying to maintain a neutral approach.

 

Before I comment on the commander rework, I am still amazed by the general level of toxcity and negativity on the forums. Yes, WG have made a few mistakes, I also got the satan crate refunds, but I sincerely believe they are putting  a huge amount of love and effort into Warships. Overall, I find it to be a superb and well polished game. There is a huge team of testers and people working constantly behind the scenes to try and keep the game at these high standards while still trying to innovate and improve.

 

Now re. the commander rework, why all the complaints?:

 

1) You will still have your 19 point commanders and the same amount of skills to allocate as before. You are not losing anything or feeling left out if you do not have a 21 pointer. Just because you don't have enough to instantly get to 21 points is this a reason to throw your toys out the cot?

 

2) I am looking forward to more choices and the ability to have one commander have different skills for different classes of ships. I also have a reasonable amount of premiums and the way I understand it, your captain can still move between all these for free and if they different classes, his different skill sets kick in. 

 

3) I do agree potentially some of the skills might need balancing post-update but I would rather move forward with more dynamic and interesting choices than the current cookie cutter captain system which is a bit one dimensional and boring and doesn't help a captain when he moves between classes of ships.

 

4) We getting lots of free stuff with the update, including  1 100 doubloons for most players.

The "toxicity " is well deserved.

 

1.no. And we do lose important skills for some classes. If you want to have a build that somewhat resembles previously used builds, you need to spend more points. 

Gain: nothing

 

2. Except not. While you have more options theoretically, you'll need to stick to that one build if you want to be competitive. 

Benefit of pointless options: none

 

Also, while you can use one captain in different classes, you will need to respecc him for the different class to make use oh his skills.

Gain: none whatsoever 

 

3. The current system is not perfect, but it works. The new system is neither fleshed out, nor does it make any kind of sense.

For the rest see 1 and 2

 

4. No, we don't. You have to play for it. And the 1.1k dubs is just a small token, a bone for the dogs. It's purpose is to incentive players to spend more, which is the one and only purpose of the skill rework.

 

Nice try tho.

[Origin47]

"WG have made a few mistakes" - only a few??? quite a lot, appalling and worthy of being mentioned on prime time news.

 

"Overall, I find it to be a superb and well polished game" - I totally do not agree with you. It is horribly unbalanced.

 

"You will still have your 19 point commanders and the same amount of skills to allocate as before. You are not losing anything or feeling left out if you do not have a 21 pointer. Just because you don't have enough to instantly get to 21 points is this a reason to throw your toys out the cot?" - The thing is that for the most important skills, WG increased the point cost by one and what builds now take 19 point, will require 21.

 

WG has clue about "customer centricity".

[Aragathor]

8 minutes ago, MaxGct said:

First time poster, been playing the game for almost a year and loving it. Upfront, I am not trying to defend or criticise WG, but just trying to maintain a neutral approach.

Good for you for enjoying it, but let me point out you have a very limited frame of reference due to the short time you've been playing it.

 

9 minutes ago, MaxGct said:

Before I comment on the commander rework, I am still amazed by the general level of toxcity and negativity on the forums.

Two things, criticism is not toxicity and WG has earned every little piece of it.

WG never listens to feedback and they keep making avoidable mistakes. This makes people bitter and angry, because its a good game that is actively being made less fun with every loudly touted "improvement".

And this isn't a subjective thing, quite a lot of people here have posted in depth analyses of what WG is doing wrong, and every time it was ignored.

 

11 minutes ago, MaxGct said:

Yes, WG have made a few mistakes, I also got the satan crate refunds, but I sincerely believe they are putting  a huge amount of love and effort into Warships.

Not a few, they made a ton of mistakes. Every Christmas it's a lottery how scummy WG will be. That santa crate refund? WG did it because they did something openly illegal called false advertising.

Other times events have been set up so that you had to open your wallet to get anything of value or had items hidden behind a player unfriendly RNG.

 

13 minutes ago, MaxGct said:

There is a huge team of testers and people working constantly behind the scenes to try and keep the game at these high standards while still trying to innovate and improve.

You sound like a paid shill.

 

14 minutes ago, MaxGct said:

Now re. the commander rework, why all the complaints?:

Because WG is not improving the skills in any visible way, instead of making the skill system more grindy.? Because WG is buffing ship classes and playstyles that are toxic?

 

15 minutes ago, MaxGct said:

You will still have your 19 point commanders and the same amount of skills to allocate as before. You are not losing anything or feeling left out if you do not have a 21 pointer. Just because you don't have enough to instantly get to 21 points is this a reason to throw your toys out the cot?

This is pure ignorance. You cannot replicate the same functional builds using 19p captains, in most cases to get the same functionality you need a 21p captain. In several cases you cannot even replicate the same effective fucntionality, as skills have been changed to the detriment of the players.

 

17 minutes ago, MaxGct said:

I am looking forward to more choices and the ability to have one commander have different skills for different classes of ships. I also have a reasonable amount of premiums and the way I understand it, your captain can still move between all these for free and if they different classes, his different skill sets kick in. 

This functionality is only good for premiums. So only whales benefit. 

 

18 minutes ago, MaxGct said:

I do agree potentially some of the skills might need balancing post-update but I would rather move forward with more dynamic and interesting choices than the current cookie cutter captain system which is a bit one dimensional and boring and doesn't help a captain when he moves between classes of ships.

You will get the same cookie cutter builds as before, save now certain classes will be encouraged to camp in spawn. Other classes will be hobbled by the badly designed skills.

 

19 minutes ago, MaxGct said:

We getting lots of free stuff with the update, including  1 100 doubloons for most players.

This is nothing compared to the cost in time and resources most people will have to invest to get back to the level they are now before the rework.

[Itwastuesday]

If you play anything to the level where you're at least sort of good at it, it starts to suck and all that is left to do is complain. But anyway :

 

1, No, you have less skills as previous skills are more expensive. Also 19 pointers generate elite captain xp for you and then suddenly they won't. For example I've just unlocked 19 pointers christmas-this year and now I won't have the ability to gather that valuable resource for retraining and upgrading other commanders.

 

2, Yes, this is nice, though I suspect many have maxed out commanders for their tech tree ship lines that can be used on the premiums anyway. 

 

3, I agree on the sentiment but all I see in the rework is even more cookie cutter. 

 

4, A tiny amount of doubloons that you can't do much with, but yes, sure, it's free. 

[Bindolaf_Werebane]

IF this is indeed a sincere post by the OP (big if), you have your answer, veterans, on "why make it harder on newcomers".

 

Good game, WG, well played.

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

23 minutes ago, MaxGct said:

shiny things

Experience is also a thing. ^^

[Verblonde]

35 minutes ago, MaxGct said:

I am still amazed by the general level of toxcity and negativity on the forums.

WG entirely deserve all the criticism; previous posts cover off why well, but I fear you haven't understood what WG are doing here. Short version, from my perspective:

• The captain skills change; many typical builds can be retained, but cost two more captain points than before.
• Everyone is in the same boat vis-a-vis captain skills, so I'm not really too upset about things like the BFT nerf etc.
• What is wholly unacceptable is that this rework means that to stand still - i.e. have maxed out captains - costs players 1.2 million captain xp *per captain*. To put that in perspective, in the past you needed to grind a 19 point captain to start generating elite captain xp; after the rework you have to grind (according to the old system) more than a 17 point captain *as well*
• In turn, this means that old lags (including me, frankly) will have a massive advantage over newer players in that we'll be able to generate loads of ecxp, while they can't. This goes double if (you guessed it, like me) you have buckets of premium ships, and can so get (lots) more first win bonuses with a single captain.
• Short version: old lags and (especially) whales will be in a drastically better position than newer players, unless the latter spend a lot of money. This isn't about improving the playing experience; it's about trying to extract money from people, to an unacceptable degree.

[Skyllon]

45 minutes ago, MaxGct said:

(...) I am still amazed by the general level of toxcity and negativity on the forums. (...)

Just wait.

 

After 10k battles, multiple WG f*** ups and many broken promises over 5+ years in the game, I promise you, you'd not have made that comment.

 

 

24 minutes ago, Jethro_Grey said:

Also, while you can use one captain in different classes, you will need to respecc him for the different class to make use oh his skills.

Gain: none whatsoever  

Unless you put him only on premium ships. Then this change is beneficial.

[Lieut_Gruber]

4 minutes ago, Skyllon said:

Just wait.

 

After 10k battles, multiple WG f*** ups and many broken promises over 5+ years in the game, I promise you, you'd not have made that comment.

I have a wider view over the game, from closed Alpha. And i do agree with OP. The game is fine, even the CV rework was a blessing, as many do not remember the devastation the RTS CVs did. We have some very loud and persistent complainers here on the forum, overshouting every nuance in the discussion, but the silent majority thinks the game is fine.

[MementoMori_6030]

Vor 58 Minuten, MaxGct sagte:

Yes, WG have made a few mistakes

You might want to google "a few"... 

[Skyllon]

1 minute ago, Lieut_Gruber said:

I have a wider view over the game, from closed Alpha. And i do agree with OP. The game is fine, even the CV rework was a blessing, as many do not remember the devastation the RTS CVs did. We have some very loud and persistent complainers here on the forum, overshouting every nuance in the discussion, but the silent majority thinks the game is fine.

You need to work on your 'bait' skills. 

This one can be spotted from the moon.

 

 

1 minute ago, Lieut_Gruber said:

The game is fine, even the CV rework was a blessing, as many do not remember the devastation the RTS CVs did.

You killed me with that one!

 

I guess silent majority thinks CV Reekwork^TM is (in Borat's voice) "Great Success!"

[22cm]

39 minutes ago, Uglesett said:

Yes, and since the most useful skills have gone up in cost, a 21 point captain in the new system is basically a 19 point captain in the old system but 1.2 million exp more expensive.

 

^ This.

[HystericalAccuracy]

51 minutes ago, MaxGct said:

You are not losing anything

You are the proof that marketing-BS works. Welcome to the forums btw 

I am losing tank-build for cruisers. No more FP for that class.

I am losing 5% DPM on destroyers. (BFT 10% > 5%). Hybrid DDs will lose half of the boost they previously gained by BFT, therefore being worse gunboats; while by design being worse torpedo-boats than the dedicated ones.

53 minutes ago, MaxGct said:

I am looking forward to more choices

Wrong. See above.

Your most played class is (German) BB, so you are not that affected, although you will feel it if you have sec-spec.

57 minutes ago, MaxGct said:

I would rather move forward with more dynamic and interesting choices than the current cookie cutter captain system which is a bit one dimensional and boring and doesn't help a captain when he moves between classes of ships.

Currently BB-captains mostly work fine on heavy cruisers and vice-versa; soon I will have to spec the same captain for each class separately while overall getting a worse one.

 

Also, what interesting choices does the new system offer my DesMo and Salem? The three torpedo-perks? No torps, AA got castrated, and with the new system the fire-chance goes down. I see many negative points coming up. BBs will set me on fire easier because increased sec-range; while I will burn because no FP.

 

And frankly I could puke when I see all the gimmicky perks like "Argus-eyed".

[Lieut_Gruber]

8 minutes ago, Skyllon said:

You need to work on your 'bait' skills. 

This one can be spotted from the moon.

 

 

You killed me with that one!

 

I guess silent majority thinks CV Reekwork^TM is (in Borat's voice) "Great Success!"

Nice, i bait and a Borat joke, powerfull arguements.....

Well, since you have hidden stats, i cant check what your game history is, and how or if you struggle with the whole concept. Have a nice day.

[Gnirf]

1 hour ago, MaxGct said:

 

 

4) We getting lots of free stuff with the update, including  1 100 doubloons for most players.

I have around 56 19p captains, with a cost of 1.200.000 EliteXP each = 67.200.000 and even with a discounted conversion rate of 35:1 it is 1.920.000 doubloons. Undiscounted 25:1 it is 2.688.000 doubloons.

Sure there are other ways which I do not want to calculate at the moment by buying and dismissing captains etc. which makes it somewhat less. But how much is 1100 doubloons compared to that?

 

I have played since the start, for thousands of hours and spent quite a lot to get where I am on flags etc. , now I am robbed. You would be happy?

[Captain_Newman]

Imagine thinking that replacing a single skill tree from which you can pick skills for any class of ship with class-specific trees that limit your options actually means more choices. Want to meme and build a secondary cruiser because you feel like it? Current system lets you. Incoming system doesn’t because now you can only pick skills wg lets you for each class. I find it scary to think how many people fail to see just how bad this one thing is.

 

Also, constructive criticism isn’t toxicity.

WG continually makes the game less balanced. There aren’t many who think the CV rework was an improvement. There aren’t many who don’t find WG’s tactic of “release overpowered premium, remove it after a short time, add it to christmas boxes and count the money” as scummy. And, there aren’t many people who are actually looking forward to the skill rework. There are legitimate reasons for these opinions, not the least of which is our experience with WG practices so far.

[POIfection]

Just to clarify post rework behavior;

 

You can have a Captain set-up for DD / BB / CV but if you wanted to move the Captain from a silver DD to a silver BB would  you still need to pay for reallocation? 

[Aragathor]

1 minute ago, POIfection said:

Just to clarify post rework behavior;

 

You can have a Captain set-up for DD / BB / CV but if you wanted to move the Captain from a silver DD to a silver BB would  you still need to pay for reallocation? 

Yes.

[Molly_Delaney]

Just to say as forums go this one is not that toxic.

There are much worse out there.....    (you should see the My Little Pony one )

Plus it's human nature to complain when things don't work and not to give compliments as much, combined with less than 5% (guess) of players are on here.

 

Captain Skills rework? No opinion, yet.....

[SV_Kompresor]

17 minutes ago, POIfection said:

Just to clarify post rework behavior;

 

You can have a Captain set-up for DD / BB / CV but if you wanted to move the Captain from a silver DD to a silver BB would  you still need to pay for reallocation? 

Yes, except it'll cost you more elite commander xp when the captain is maxed out.

[K82J]

1 hour ago, MaxGct said:

 There is a huge team of testers and people working constantly behind the scenes to try and keep the game at these high standards while still trying to innovate and improve.

 

Yes, they try. Without reading feedback in a pretty big amount of the cases, so its a dumpser fire for weeks. I cannot name a  single person who wanted skill rework. Nor the Research Bureau. Or i can mention the CV rework, very few player i know is happy with it as it is now. And soon, submarines.

 

Only thing was to improve is to add some more skills. So not everyone is running the same build. No, we got a rework instead, and, despite what you say, we lose stuff. In skills, in time, in money.

 

Just for example, soon the Flint gonna have 11km range. Would have been utterly mad if i had spent steel or coal on her.

[Stormhawk_V]

2 minutes ago, SV_Kompresor said:

Yes, except it'll cost you more elite commander xp when the captain is maxed out.

300k to be precise and you can't complete half the retraining for credits any more.

[Captain_Newman]

1 minute ago, Stormhawk_V said:

and you can't complete half the retraining for credits any more.

 

To be fair, the half-training thing is now “baked in” (you get it by default) so that’s the one thing that is actually ok. People need to stop complaining about literally the only thing that doesn’t suck about the rework, and direct their complaints towards actual problems.