More is less (the upcoming Commander Skills Update 19 -> 21 points - most current "reference" builds will simply cost more in new system for same functionality and will deplete great deal of resources and cause months / years of unnecessary grind)!

[Leo_Apollo11]

Hi all,

 

More is less (the upcoming Commander Skills Update 19 -> 21 points - most current "reference" builds will simply cost more in new system for same functionality and will deplete great deal of resources and cause months / years of unnecessary grind)!

 

 

 

#1

"Commander Skills Update"

https://worldofwarships.eu/en/news/general-news/commander-skills-update/

 

Quote

Reasons for the Changes

• For many ships, there was often only one skill build that worked effectively. By adding new skills and changing the old ones, we want players to have a choice between several different effective builds to accommodate different playstyles.
• Skills for all ship types were previously presented in the same skill tree. Because of this, some of them were ineffective for particular ships, or had different effects on different ship types. The new format allows us to create more specialized skills for each ship type and provides space for future development.

 

The above "explanation" is... well...

 

IMHO this is the worst "update" that WG has done thus far... I lived through all other changes (including the infamous CV change) but this is really something never seen before... I really really have hard time understanding why this was introduced at all in the first place.. nobody (not community not testers) never ever wanted this...

 

 

#2

"Update of commander skills: questions and answers"

https://blog.worldofwarships.com/blog/107

 

 

Quote

How much XP is needed to level up a commander from 19 to 21 skill points?

It will require 1,200,000 XP. Yes, it is a new stage of growth for commanders in our game: they get more simultaneous active skills, but it requires effort to unlock them all. This is the basis of our game - progression.

 

The cost for upcoming new 20 & 21 point is staggering 1.200.000 Captain XP points.

 

 

There is simply no reason for this... absolutely none whatsoever...

 

The true cost (if we ever wanted to go to 20 & 21 in first place) would be more reasonable around 700.000:

 

 

 

 

#3

Lets look at 12-point current DD base (lets say some sort of "basic reference") build:

 

 

Now this same set will cost 15 points in upcoming update !!!

 

Maintenance Specialist (1) +  Propulsive (2) + Argus-Eyed (2) + Enduring (3) + Adrenaline Rush (3) + Concealment Expert (4) = 15

 

How is this "improvement" of any sort?

 

 

#4

Lets look at 19-point current DD generic "gunboat" (lets say some sort of "basic reference") build:

 

 

Now this same set will cost 21 points in upcoming update and with less effect because there is only 5% improvement in reload now !!!

 

Maintenance Specialist (1) +  Propulsive (2) + Argus-Eyed (2) + Enduring (3) + Adrenaline Rush (3) + Provident (3) Main Battery and AA Specialist (3) + Concealment Expert (4) = 21

 

How is this "improvement" of any sort?

 

 

#5

"Commander Skills Update"

https://worldofwarships.eu/en/news/general-news/commander-skills-update/

 

Quote

Commanders with less than 21 skill points will additionally bring you Elite XP in the amount of 5% of the Commander XP gained per battle. For Commanders with 21 skill points, any XP earned is converted into Elite XP; the additional 5% is not credited.

 

The 5% is simply meaningless... it is insignificant similar to "Free XP" 5% without usage of any special flags...

 

Lets suppose (and that is very very very generous) that player has 5.000 Commander XP after every battle (the most realistic number for 99% of players would be 2.000 - but for the sake of argument lets stay with 5.000).

 

5% of 5000 Captain XP = 250 Captain XP

From 19 -> 21 = 1.200.000 Captain XP

1.200.000 / 250 = 4.800 battles

 

So... player would need staggering 4.800 battles in order to upgrade just one single Captain from 19 -> 21... simply unbelievable...

 

 

#6

"Commander Skills Update"

https://worldofwarships.eu/en/news/general-news/commander-skills-update/

 

Quote

Elite Commander XP

Elite XP can be used to level up Commanders, accelerate Commander retraining for other ships, and redistribute skill points, and can also be converted into Free XP by using Doubloons.

When dismissing a Commander, you can convert some of their Commander XP into Elite XP:

• Up to 25% of the Commander XP, at the cost of 10 Credits for 1 XP.
• Up to 100% of the Commander XP, at the cost of 1 Doubloon for 110 XP.

 

This is...

 

Lets suppose that you have unneeded (yes I know it is stupid - but lets imagine anyway) 19-point captain and you want to convert him to "Elite Captain XP" in order to boost some other captains that you have...

 

Current 19-point Captain = 1.708.000 Captain XP

 

1.708.000 x 10 =  17.080.000 Credits for recovering just 427.000 Captain XP (25%)

 

1.708.000 / 110 =  15.527 Doubloons for recovering whole 1.708.000 Captain XP

 

The numbers speak for themselves... it is simply unbelievable and incomprehensible...

 

 

 

Discussion

 

So... please someone convince me that WG thought this through before forcing us to adopt this "upgrade"... I have no words left...

 

 

 

Leo "Apollo11"

[Aragathor]

10 minutes ago, Leo_Apollo11 said:

So... please someone convince me that WG thought this through before forcing us to adopt this "upgrade"

Well, they did thought this through. But the base idea was not improving the game, but rather making the game more frustrating and not fun to play.

In the end, the whales and unicums will adapt, the new players are the ones that get the shaft.

[Leo_Apollo11]

Hi all,

 

10 minutes ago, Aragathor said:

Well, they did thought this through. But the base idea was not improving the game, but rather making the game more frustrating and not fun to play.

In the end, the whales and unicums will adapt, the new players are the ones that get the shaft.

 

The 0.1% will, possibly, shrug this off... but the rest of 99.99% players will have months and years of grind suffer...

 

 

Leo "Apollo11"

[Fat_Maniac]

16 minutes ago, Leo_Apollo11 said:

How is this "improvement" of any sort?

Isn't the answer clear and obvious?

 

More money for WG. This looks like a pure and simple cash grab  Just like the Research Bureau.

 

Also looks like WG are trying to force change the meta by slapping their ideas of how a ship should be played on everything. Most players won't go with anything else, as they don't have the knowledge or experience to do anything else. They may turn to the CC's for guidance, but the big ones are in it for their own viewing figures, so builds / playstyles will be focused on making them look good.

 

At some point I expect to see every premium they have ever created offered up again as a viable option if you choose the right skills and play it as WG want you to.

[Tanaka_15]

WG stance is simple, pay more. I think the only reason for this change is to force ppl to spend dooblons for captain xp

[Uglesett]

Yeah, it's been pretty obvious from the start that this is just about the same performance costing (an insane amount of) more exp. I don't know where it was stated (dev blog or a forum post from one of the CMs IIRC) that a 19 point captain is going to be as effective as before, but that's just straight up bull.

 

And with what some of the new skills (and loss of skills for some classes) are likely to do to the meta (oh hello there, even more backline camping BBs), the game is just going to become less fun as well. I'm fascinated by how it's possible to create such a lose-lose situation for the entire player base. Experience players are going to be put off by the even more boring meta, and newer players are going to become put off by a seemingly endless game of catching up.

 

I'm at the stage where I'm getting pretty tired of this game, so I'm just going to reset all of my skippers and then leave the game alone. We'll see if WG comes to their senses at some point and essentially rework the rework again to something that's more exciting for veterans and less off-putting for fresh players. I have my doubts.

[JG4_sKylon]

Give me a "M"!

 

 

Give me an "O"!

 

 

Give me a "N"!

 

 

Give me an "E"!

 

 

Give me a "Y"!

[Yedwy]

25 minutes ago, Leo_Apollo11 said:

Discussion

So... please someone convince me that WG thought this through before forcing us to adopt this "upgrade"... I have no words left...

As expected and noted before - its a cash grab + investment into future cash flow as premium time and premium ships just became much more valuable for any player and especially those that are more likely to spend then to grind which are the WG most favorite part of the player base anyhow...

[StraightUpYourA]

This is just poor game economy design, One that confuses and creates frustration and not opportunity. It usually happens when a game developer depleted his ideas of monetization from a leading virtual currency and can't add anymore currencies with out confusing the players even more and making the ladder too steep so players loose interest in climbing it. 

From my years of experience I never seen a game company so hated for its game economy like WG (and i have seen my share of hated companies like EA) .

Been playing WOWS for a year they totally lost it. In the beginning i really appreciated their game economy now I think it crossed too many lines and the level of frustration it creates must wake the game developers. 

[Profilus]

46 minutes ago, Leo_Apollo11 said:

5% of 5000 Captain XP = 250 Captain XP

From 19 -> 21 = 1.200.000 Captain XP

1.200.000 / 250 = 4.800 battles

 

So... player would need staggering 4.800 battles in order to upgrade just one single Captain from 19 -> 21... simply unbelievable...

Only true if player wants to go from 19 to 21 with just elite xp. You forgot regular captain xp accumulated while grinding 5% extra.

Math should be: 1 200 000/ 5 250 = 228,57 battles to get 21 pointer

 

Otherwise good points.

[Nibenay78]

It's going to be grand to play thunderer with sniping module indeed. Eventhough I prefer balancing on spotrange. Clearly one has to adapt these days. Maybe we can have 11 thunderers on each team blobbed together, to "counter" CVs and sniping at eachother?

[BrusilovX]

WG clearly want 'fresh blood' to play WoWS and they are doing their upmost to upset the existing player base out of the game.  They, probably, are amazed that the CV rework etc hasn't done this already.

 

I thought the introduction of subs was going to be the end of the road for me but this change looks like it's done the job on me - fancy having to get another 2 captain tiers to maintain the existing performance of a 19 point captain.

 

[Fat_Maniac]

3 minutes ago, Profilus said:

You forgot regular captain xp accumulated while grinding 5% extra.

I fully expect to see a Clan building to boost this,

Plus Flags and camo's.

 

 

 

[BrusilovX]

21 minutes ago, Leo_Apollo11 said:

The 0.1% will, possibly, shrug this off... but the rest of 99.99% players will have months and years of grind suffer...

Only to find that WG introduce something else that makes the grind even longer - more captain tiers above 21?

[Stormhawk_V]

At least for DDs the problem could be easily solved by moving Last Stand to the first row like it was already done for cruisers. Then bring back BFT to 10% faster main battery reload and we could recreate the majority of builds that we used since the original skill rework although for one point more (20 total). This way the new rework would at least not feel like a total ripoff.

[Aragathor]

7 minutes ago, BrusilovX said:

WG clearly want 'fresh blood' to play WoWS and they are doing their upmost to upset the existing player base out of the game.  They, probably, are amazed that the CV rework etc hasn't done this already.

 

I thought the introduction of subs was going to be the end of the road for me but this change looks like it's done the job on me - fancy having to get another 2 captain tiers to maintain the existing performance of a 19 point captain.

 

The problem with this is that WoWS is a niche game with a niche audience. So when they drive away their existing customers, not many new ones will come to the game.

 

[OM40]

lots of good stuff could've been done to improve the game and the new/veteran player experience, most of what I saw in this rework does the exact opposite.

 

 

side note: can we all take a moment to appreciate the buff CVs (especially FDR) will be getting.....disgusting. 

[BrusilovX]

9 minutes ago, Stormhawk_V said:

At least for DDs the problem could be easily solved by moving Last Stand to the first row like it was already done for cruisers. Then bring back BFT to 10% faster main battery reload and we could recreate the majority of builds that we used since the original skill rework although for one point more (20 total). This way the new rework would at least not feel like a total ripoff.

It's a shame they don't have a proper test server to try out such things.  Then again WG have introduced changes to the game in the past that the CCs and testers told them would not work.

 

3 minutes ago, Aragathor said:

The problem with this is that WoWS is a niche game with a niche audience. So when they drive away their existing customers, not many new ones will come to the game.

 

I'm sure the 'magic spreadsheet' has the answers!

[Leo_Apollo11]

Hi all,

 

18 minutes ago, Profilus said:

Only true if player wants to go from 19 to 21 with just elite xp. You forgot regular captain xp accumulated while grinding 5% extra.

Math should be: 1 200 000/ 5 250 = 228,57 battles to get 21 pointer

 

Otherwise good points.

 

Yep... if you play directly that captain then 228 battles (with supposed average of 5.000 Captain XP per game which is very very very optimistic)...

 

But who can sustain the drain of flags... nobody has limitless supply...

 

 

Leo "Apollo11"

 

[shadowwolf9705]

Personally i am more disappointet about the reducion of viable non standard builds due to the unnecessary increased point cost or nerfing of many skills and the introduction of skills ranging from stuff thats bad for the gameplay or even full blown point traps for newbies which makes the additional grinding just a cherry on top of the pile of more build diversity that is not existing.

[Nitten79]

4 minutes ago, Leo_Apollo11 said:

Hi all,

 

 

Yep... if you play directly that captain then 228 battles (with supposed average of 5.000 Captain XP per game which is very very very optimistic)...

 

But who can sustain the drain of flags... nobody has limitless supply...

 

 

Leo "Apollo11"

 

correct, but you also need to take into account that now, you can grind these captains on all types of ships (if you have prem. ships in these types), so in theory that specific captain is more versatile, and can be used more. 

[Adm_Andre]

95% of the playerbase doesn't have a single 19 point captain, so its a cry out of the upper 5%

[MementoMori_6030]

Vor 39 Minuten, Leo_Apollo11 sagte:

but the rest of 99.99% players will have months and years of grind suffer... 

Or they will take a break from WoWs until WG have "adjusted" this mess multiple times and there can be some certainty that they are finally done with it, which might take months, and then either play only casual or reduce their captains to a number which they can manage to level without a perpetual grind.

[Hugh_Ruka]

2 minutes ago, Adm_Andre said:

95% of the playerbase doesn't have a single 19 point captain, so its a cry out of the upper 5%

I don't think you understood the point here ... equivalent captain builds parameter wise are getting MORE expensive, so even those with 14-16 point captains only will struggle as they will lose efectivity after the change ...

[MementoMori_6030]

Vor 32 Minuten, BrusilovX sagte:

Only to find that WG introduce something else that makes the grind even longer - more captain tiers above 21?

God-Admiral?