Is Lion still a bad ship?

[tsmtran_1]

Not a long time ago I just gought Tier IX british bb Lion and i had a few games with it, but I wasn't as satisfied as I imagined. After that I went to WOWS forum to get some info about this ship, because i thought i play it the wrong way, and i found out, that this ship is pretty useless. However these informations were cca 3 years old so i'd like to ask if this ship is still that bad.

[Tanaka_15]

Define BAD. All bbs are ok (apart from new US line). There are a lot better bbs than Lion but you can make it work imho. 

[Communist_Loli]

It's an alright ship, the only thing that threw me off is the absolutely horrible turret arcs which forces you to show a lot of sides if you want to use all of your firepower. But since it's the first ship in the tree to get a real super heal, you can tank hits pretty well. 

[Ronchabale]

Its a 9 gun Conqueror with a bit less range on the guns

Has the "Super heal"

HE is good with high fire chance (46%)

Short fuse AP is very effective against Cruisers

tier 7-10 MM

It is what it is, long range HE spamming, expert loader switch to AP when target of choice turns up, its no good for brawling 

[DFens_666]

23 minutes ago, tsmtran_1 said:

However these informations were cca 3 years old so i'd like to ask if this ship is still that bad.

 

Might be worse now than it was back then. 3 Years ago, it didnt have a reachable citadel - but now it has The heal got buffed in return, but Lion has a pretty pitiful healthpool to begin with, dispersion sucks, the backturret angle is horrible and you are covered in 32mm armor.

[ForlornSailor]

Worst T9 BB. by far.

[Communist_Loli]

2 minutes ago, ForlornSailor said:

Worst T9 BB. by far.

FDG would like to have a word with you. 

[SV_Kompresor]

Yeah it's pretty bad.

It has fairly poor dispersion, no armor and a superheal that does it more harm than good.

[tsmtran_1]

Well honestly i donť know, if the ship is bad or i am. I don't have that much experience with high tier battles.

 

Anyway at first i was suprised, that i don't have a 25 sec reload that i had before with british BB. That was i think the best thing in british BB tech tree and i was a bit sad, but it's a bit understandable, when HE has around 40 % fire chance.

 

Next thing that i discovered was that this ship is penetratable with basicly every AP shell no matter the ship it was fired from. I tried to be in the back and let the german BB tank everyting but even afer that i got oneshoted, just a bit later in the game.

 

Another problem i that this ship is extremely slow and and maneuverability is very bad. That makes dodging basicly impossible.

 

 

Because of these problem I just can't see how am I supposed to play in battles.

[BruceRKF]

Lion has never been "bad", imo, but it is still the same it always was: boring.

[Ronchabale]

Agree with all that said no fun

[DFens_666]

3 minutes ago, Communist_Loli said:

FDG would like to have a word with you. 

 

I think FDG might be better after all the buffs they gave it over the years.

With reload mod, FDG actually has a <23 sec reload, which is quite good for any BB imo. With AR kicking in, it get even lower. Lions greatest strength compared to FDG is the concealment imo, but that hardly works anymore these days. And if you meet Yamato style BB, you will bleed insane amount of HP if you try to get closer, while all other BBs are wanking at islands in spawn.

 

5 minutes ago, tsmtran_1 said:

Because of these problem I just can't see how am I supposed to play in battles.

 

You shouldnt be playing T9 with 250 battles played - you just need way more experience regardless of which ship you take.

[tsmtran_1]

Před 1 minutou DFens_666 řekl/a:

You shouldnt be playing T9 with 250 battles played - you just need way more experience regardless of which ship you take

Like I said - I don't know if this is because of the ship or that i am an unexperienced player. I wont play Tier IX even if Lion is playable in order to get more experience, but I just wanted to know if it's even playable, because i heard how bad it is.

[DFens_666]

8 minutes ago, tsmtran_1 said:

Like I said - I don't know if this is because of the ship or that i am an unexperienced player. I wont play Tier IX even if Lion is playable in order to get more experience, but I just wanted to know if it's even playable, because i heard how bad it is.

 

With sufficient skill, any ship can "work" (alltho this really leaves open what results one is hoping for).

You should try different lines at T5-6 and see how they work out for you. For a beginner, you might wanna try German BBs, as you dont get punished so hard so you have more time to learn stuff. Otherwise id say try russians/US/IJN too. French BBs can be strong, but due to their smaller caliber guns often require more knowledge on how to position and/or where to aim to make them work, so i wouldnt recommend them for beginners.

[ColonelPete]

The introduction of RU BB and CA was good for RN BB.

http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/ranking/20210116/eu_2month/average_ship_u.html

 

The performance is decent. Personally I would prefer slightly more hitpoints. That would allow you to get closer and take better advantage of the heal.

[DFens_666]

10 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

The introduction of RU BB and CA was good for RN BB.

 

I actually wonder if the lack of a premium T9 RN BB can favour Lion. As we know, MM likes to split same nations ships, so f.e. 2 Lions get split so they up 1 in each team if possible. Now, if you pick Iowa, there are Missouri and Georgia, which might be played by more experienced players (or are stronger to begin with)

Izumo? Musashi - atleast up until now, since we got Hizen, which is arguably a worse Izumo.

FDG? Pommern.

All those premiums are actually stronger than their techtree counterparts, or are played by play more experienced players - or both.

I know, JB exists aswell, which would fit against Alsace, but personaly i dont think Alsace is a weak ship actually. If played properly, Alsace is one of the better T9 ships imo.

[Jvd2000]

1 hour ago, ColonelPete said:

The introduction of RU BB and CA was good for RN BB.

http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/ranking/20210116/eu_2month/average_ship_u.html

 

The performance is decent. Personally I would prefer slightly more hitpoints. That would allow you to get closer and take better advantage of the heal.

Looking at this overview. High dmg ( but which part of that is healable HE dmg) and the lowest hit ratio..if you guess about FdG being bufffed recently and not yet showing.

 
The pain for Lion is that WG has to limit the HE carnage that a Lion can do to dd’s and cruisers with an accuracy nerf...and having unreliable main guns is the most frustrating attribute imo. You are not rewarded for playing good... and your tanking setup is also long range based. Your heal prefers long range HE damage taken but not close range citadel damage..which you will take if you are found in a bad situation. 
 

So as a Lion player you are guided into long range HE farming ( with the new captain skill promoting the accuracy buff since you have a good concealment) not having a direct immediate influence in the battle.

[RenamedUser_92906789]

I asked Flamu once... if Lion was better than Monarch.

 

He asked me back if horse sheet was better than dog sheet :)

[Yedwy]

25 minutes ago, nambr9 said:

I asked Flamu once... if Lion was better than Monarch.

 

He asked me back if horse sheet was better than dog sheet :)

Well IMHO THIS

 

Comes from this:

1 hour ago, Jvd2000 said:

...and having unreliable main guns is the most frustrating attribute imo. You are not rewarded for playing good... and your tanking setup is also long range based. Your heal prefers long range HE damage taken but not close range citadel damage..which you will take if you are found in a bad situation...

And I kinda agree - not good for sniping, not good for tanking, not good for pushing, well not good at anything except farming useless fire damage really...

[FixCVs_Nautical_Metaphor]

I like it. It's a bit perverse but that's OK. English magic HE will never not be funny. Also Tier IX matchmaking means fewer carriers.

Monarch is also far less bad than it used to be. 25s reload and with that stronger belt you can broadside more.

[RenamedUser_92906789]

37 minutes ago, FixCVs_Nautical_Metaphor said:

I like it. It's a bit perverse but that's OK. English magic HE will never not be funny. Also Tier IX matchmaking means fewer carriers.

Monarch is also far less bad than it used to be. 25s reload and with that stronger belt you can broadside more.

 

Idk about that.

[Foxhound421a]

The issue in my opinion is the British gimmick is poor armour and excellent HE (this is realistic)  the fact British ships had extremely heavy armour seems to have been ignored though it’s fun to imagine KGV with its 2nd only to Yamato belt at tier 7! 
 

Lion is desperate for a buff if wargaming want to keep it as a glass cannon give it good accuracy and lower its citadel so it doesn’t get deleted immediately. Failing that up its armour so not everything pens. 
 

Though you will be pleased to know things get better with conqueror which is quite fun to get near the cap (excellent stealth) then blast any spotted DDs with your 12 16.5s. I don’t know if the accuracy is better but you have 12 guns and when they hit with HE or AP it is absolutely devastating. 

[Gnirf]

I think all RN ships T8-10 are ships that are middle of the road ships that are easy to get decent results in but difficult to win battles in. Sure if you stack up huge numbers of fires over time and choosing right ships to terrorize ofc you make an impact. They are pretty suitable for missions for damage and because of fire chance you can get some damage numbers even downtiered. Pretty OK for farming credits in as this is to a large extent dependant on damage.

 

But as others have stated easy but boring in large doses.

Do not forget the AP, expert loader is very useful.

I seldom hard carrry in RN BBs but otoh seldom do really bad games in them. I think the performance gap for me is larger in other T9 ships. But I do not have stats that are reliable and comparable due to different numbers of games recently.

[mdjmcnally]

Well with a mission in the dockyard for BB citadels, set fires the. lion not a bad ship for that, though conquered or thunder better still.

 

apologizing now for tomorrow when I take thunderer out for getting the easy start fires for the dockyard.

 

I don’t think it’s a bad ship just that got power crept over the years.   Being tier 9 then full AA build not worth it and difficult now to creep up with the good concealment.   Meta seems to be long range sniping/border/island hugging which lion not really suited for.

 

i don’t play since got conqueror apart from knocking the snowflake off.    Tend not to play British BB much at all now though as working through US, Soviet and French Tech trees for BB.

 

being British then did the British bb and cruisers first.

[Chaos_Umbra]

This was my opinion of it:

 

"The accuracy is so bad it can't hit the broadside of a barn, from within the barn..."

 

Yeah when you have AP loaded and you shoot a broadside Worcester at 6km and the shells spread all around it left, right, high and low with none hitting you can't define it as anything but crap.

 

I also had the rear turret miss a broadside enemy Lion at 2.5km, left barrel went high over the rear turret, right barrel went high over the front turret and the middle barrel went low into the water...