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Shungite_Merchant

why are cvs so infuriating to play against

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literally feel like putting my fist through the monitor right now, too meny carriers in queue im going play something else to cool down 

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Can´t wait for someone to lock your thread with the hint that there is already one (ONE) thread about CVs.

Post there, and within an hour your post will get buried beneath 50 posts from others.

No one will see it and WG will tell "CVs are welcomed by the playerbase, no threads about issues with them".

 

On topic; I share your view

I mean: learn to dodge and press O

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2 minutes ago, VIadoCro said:

Can´t wait for someone to lock your thread with the hint that there is already one

i just wanted to vent my anger somewhere

3 minutes ago, VIadoCro said:

Post there, and within an hour your post will get buried beneath 50 posts from others.

filing all the feedback in the bin still

 

4 minutes ago, VIadoCro said:

No one will see it and WG will tell "CVs are welcomed by the playerbase, no threads about issues with them"

i nearly forgot they never listen to our feedback

5 minutes ago, VIadoCro said:

I mean: learn to dodge and press O

imagine actually trying that and all what happens is litrally ur gearing game lasts about 5/6 min and carriers are apperantly balanced, is the speadsheet drunk or they just ignore there own speadsheet too?

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14 minutes ago, Shungite_Merchant said:

literally feel like putting my fist through the monitor right now, too meny carriers in queue im going play something else to cool down 

No idea, what type of ship you play, but always when you take a hit of a CV, just think about, how would it be when this CV would be a RTS CV. One-hitting AP bombs, or 12 cross dropped torpedos. Own torpedos spotted and perma-spotted by a single group of bombers.

 

Then it feels way more comfortable, to take those smaller hits. ^^

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3 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

No idea, what type of ship you play, but always when you take a hit of a CV, just think about, how would it be when this CV would be a RTS CV. One-hitting AP bombs, or 12 cross dropped torpedos. Own torpedos spotted and perma-spotted by a single group of bombers.

 

Then it feels way more comfortable, to take those smaller hits. ^^

back in the RTS days we used to have this defensive thing called defensive AA that worked, now we have this consumable that makes the clouds red

 

it litrally focused 3 times in a row in all 3 games, i actually want to play wows but i think its wise to just not log in for a few days 

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Just now, Shungite_Merchant said:

back in the RTS days we used to have this defensive thing called defensive AA that worked, now we have this consumable that makes the clouds red

 

it litrally focused 3 times in a row in all 3 games, i actually want to play wows but i think its wise to just not log in for a few days 

That's why I said, I don't know you ship. If you had an AA heavy ship, then it's different, but all the aa-weak ships are now way better.

Also I remember, how a unicum CV player once said, he could easily bait the DefAA and then kill the ship after that ^^

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1 minute ago, Pikkozoikum said:

Also I remember, how a unicum CV player once said, he could easily bait the DefAA and then kill the ship after that ^^ 

 

That only worked against idiots, since he couldnt make me activate it unless i pressed the button.

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1 minute ago, Pikkozoikum said:

I don't know you ship

gearing, recontly ive been enjoying the old school ships but being focused at the start the game like that 3 games in a row, its just not fun

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1 minute ago, DFens_666 said:

That only worked against idiots, since he couldnt make me activate it unless i pressed the button.

tbh in the rts days there was less cvs, it was like 1 in 10 i think and the percentage to be up against someone good was even less

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Yeah in the old system you knew taking a bad AA ship out would get you in trouble in the rare cases you got to play against a CV but now you know if the CV wants to take his hate out on you then you cant do a thing.

I miss having the old no-fly zone ships.

 

Heck i remember when kutuzov was just out and had the new AA values for some long forgotten rework activating the defensive AA was as if those planes where flying into a concrete barricade it was hilarious the carrier tears.

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27 minutes ago, Shungite_Merchant said:

gearing, recontly ive been enjoying the old school ships but being focused at the start the game like that 3 games in a row, its just not fun

When I play DD and there is a CV, I move half speed aside a cruiser, AA off.

I watch where the CV will be spotted and if he would be a threat to me. If he goes my direction, he will not attack me, because AA off, he will attack the cruiser, and then when he gets close -> AA on. Then he loses all his planes. If he comes back, I keep doing this and fooling the enemy CV.


If he goes for other spots, I try to contest the cap and spot

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11 minutes ago, piet11111 said:

Yeah in the old system you knew taking a bad AA ship out would get you in trouble in the rare cases you got to play against a CV but now you


Though if the point is "There were so few CV matches", then it's even worse, because the design is so bad, that you play so rarely against it.

Also I remember rankeds with RTS CV v_v

 

11 minutes ago, piet11111 said:

know if the CV wants to take his hate out on you then you cant do a thing.

I once got focused the whole game by a CV, I killed some ships, did a lot damage and in the end I got killed as laste survivor from a BB. The CV player was above average with 56% total WR, so he was not bad.

 

So you can do a lot. There is of course RNG invovled, like it is always. Once I dodged a rocket attack - 0 dmg, then I dodged the second rocket attack, I had almost full hp, but low enough ,that one rocket detonated my magazine. Just bad luck, even if I avoided so many damage ^^

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Just now, Pikkozoikum said:

I once got focused the whole game by a CV, I killed some ships, did a lot damage and in the end I got killed as laste survivor from a BB. The CV player was above average with 56% total WR, so he was not bad.

 

So you can do a lot. There is of course RNG invovled, like it is always. Once I dodged a rocket attack - 0 dmg, then I dodged the second rocket attack, I had almost full hp, but low enough ,that one rocket detonated my magazine. Just bad luck, even if I avoided so many damage ^^

 

Yeah but that is in a DD you can be almost invisible until he is right on top of you but in a cruiser or lord have mercy in a BB your just screwed.

 

In my opinion they should rework the AA system where its based on the kind of gun you have x the amount you have and then balance from there because as it is now it seems entirely random.

Heck i sometimes get the impression my Mushashi does better AA wise then my Yamato.

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1 minute ago, piet11111 said:

Yeah but that is in a DD you can be almost invisible until he is right on top of you but in a cruiser or lord have mercy in a BB your just screwed.

A BB has it so much better now than against RTS. In the RTS system you got killed by one full strike. Now you survive 5-15 minutes of CV attacks. While that you can kill so many enemies. BBs are the clear winner of the rework. The floods are way weaker and the alpha damage is way lower.

 

Cruisers can be different, sometimes you can get nuked by AP bombs, though it really depends on CV and cruiser.

 

3 minutes ago, piet11111 said:

In my opinion they should rework the AA system where its based on the kind of gun you have x the amount you have and then balance from there because as it is now it seems entirely random.

Heck i sometimes get the impression my Mushashi does better AA wise then my Yamato.

My idea of AA rework would be: When you change sector, you have a ~5% burst damage component. This should be changed to a manually aimed flak barrage. So the player can get big hits, if aimed good, or weak to no hits.

 

Well it's not random, it's the ships design. If they want a ship with bad AA then it has bad AA. They design it for pvp and for ship balance. Though the Musashi has not much AA anywas? Especially when you compare it with Yamato.

 

In Warthunder every AA is actual a real gun. Though there you get other issues like the Mogami has the heavy guns, but AA like early war, rip

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because of stuff like that, CV is now less frustratinn, especially as BB

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True but i preferred the old way as a BB.

If i was in a north carolina or up and specced for AA then the carrier had a tough time getting through without heavy losses now its a waste of skill points as the carrier would still have its way with my ship.

I lost my ability to fight back in a fair way and the loss of being able to fly multiple squadrons makes it easier to stomach losses for carriers as they can regen more without having incomplete squadrons.

 

A botched attack as a carrier in the old system meant your crippled the rest of the game.

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1 minute ago, piet11111 said:

If i was in a north carolina or up and specced for AA then the carrier had a tough time getting through without heavy losses now its a waste of skill points as the carrier would still have its way with my ship.

But can he have it's way 1 time, or 4 times? Will he strike with 12 planes, or does he lose 9 planes and drops only with 3? That's the point of AA.

There are two phases

 

Phase one is mitigate the first strike

Phase two is to have enough AA to destroy the rest of the planes, so you don't have to mitigate further strikes.

 

I think a North Carolina could get sunk as well by a CV? I don't remember, how it was to attack a NC, only that ships like Mino or Des Moines were issues.

 

I have way more fun against the rework CV, especially when the way how it works is understood.

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1 minute ago, Pikkozoikum said:

But can he have it's way 1 time, or 4 times? Will he strike with 12 planes, or does he lose 9 planes and drops only with 3? That's the point of AA.

There are two phases

 

Phase one is mitigate the first strike

Phase two is to have enough AA to destroy the rest of the planes, so you don't have to mitigate further strikes.

 

I think a North Carolina could get sunk as well by a CV? I don't remember, how it was to attack a NC, only that ships like Mino or Des Moines were issues.

 

I have way more fun against the rework CV, especially when the way how it works is understood.

 

As a NC you had a very good chance to kill most attacking aircraft and it would be so costly that the carrier was not able to do it again.

Better carrier players would simply avoid you.

Current system its mostly irrelevant you avoid the pretty flak clouds and your golden and any losses you incur will be replaced soon enough so repeat as much as you like.

 

And yes mino and des moines where no flying zones but they lost all range increasing skills and a lot of their punch like all the other ships.

The entire rework was to make carriers easier to play and they succeeded. (even if my stats say otherwise :Smile-_tongue: )

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Dont worry.

 

WG keeps an eye on the CV massive thread.

They value all the feedback and are taking them into consideration.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

... ackward silence ....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah right. LOL.

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1 hour ago, Shungite_Merchant said:

literally feel like putting my fist through the monitor right now, too meny carriers in queue im going play something else to cool down 

 

Nearly 100% solution to not get bothered by an enemy CV:

 

Play a CV yourself.... WG removed nearly all CV interaction, so You would never feel molested by a CV anymore

 

Glad I could help You :Smile_great:

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11 minutes ago, piet11111 said:

As a NC you had a very good chance to kill most attacking aircraft and it would be so costly that the carrier was not able to do it again.

Hm, in the video he sinks a lot BBs, even an Alabama without a loss.

 

6 minutes ago, piet11111 said:

Current system its mostly irrelevant you avoid the pretty flak clouds and your golden and any losses you incur will be replaced soon enough so repeat as much as you like. 

Actually not, the most damage comes from cont. DPS. If the AA is strong enough, the CV loses 50-80% of it's planes. The reload of a Plane takes something like 1 min or longer. To replace such loses it takes 10 Minutes or longer.

The thing is, that a CV has a large reserve. The reesembling is quite slow of most Carriers.

 

The effect of AA is not to deny 100% of the strike power, it's about to reduce the strike power as much as possible, in most cases it will be all planes except the first striking ones.

If AA is too weak, the CV will get 2 or 3 strikes out, which has a way larger effect than doing strike.

 

The thing is, this is not a fair shooter like Counter Stike or somehting, where only skill matters. It's a class-based team pvp game. It's never fair, and you have to expect damage out of nowhere

 

15 minutes ago, piet11111 said:

And yes mino and des moines where no flying zones but they lost all range increasing skills and a lot of their punch like all the other ships.

The entire rework was to make carriers easier to play and they succeeded. (even if my stats say otherwise :Smile-_tongue: )

To make it easier is only one point of many, why they did the rework.

What you mean with range increasing skills? For AA? Many ships got range increase actually, especially those, who don't take the AA mods anyways, because their AA was so weak.

But also the lower range is compensated by how the CV works now. The old CV could approach targets without beind long in AA.

The planes of the rework have like 100 times larger turning circles. Especially when you drop your load. RTS planes turned like a Tank on it's spot after dropping torpedos, while the Rework is flying over the enemy and sitting in the AA, and for the next attack he has to turn inside the AA.

 

So the whole mechanic is changed and it's not possible to compare single stats, when the whole system changed.

 

 

 

 

 

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Actually not, the most damage comes from cont. DPS. If the AA is strong enough, the CV loses 50-80% of it's planes. The reload of a Plane takes something like 1 min or longer. To replace such loses it takes 10 Minutes or longer.

The thing is, that a CV has a large reserve. The reesembling is quite slow of most Carriers.

Most damage indeed comes from cont. dps because flak to skilled carrier players is purely cosmetic most of the time.

Most planes recharge in 40-50 seconds but you do not have the same amount of them in play anymore because you only have 1 squadron in use at any time and if you have a carrier like Kaga you can spam them mindlessly.

Because you only have to fly 1 squadron at a time you can more easily absorb losses because your ability to bring them out is far more staggered.

 

Quote

The effect of AA is not to deny 100% of the strike power, it's about to reduce the strike power as much as possible, in most cases it will be all planes except the first striking ones.

The effect of AA has been made moot you will get hit no matter what any plane shot down is immediately replaced by one that is not in the current strike until there are no reserve planes left.

this full damage no matter what you do unless by some miracle they fly through a bunch of flak for some reason is a big issue i have with the current system.

 

Quote

What you mean with range increasing skills? For AA? Many ships got range increase actually, especially those, who don't take the AA mods anyways, because their AA was so weak.

Yeah the AA range increases combined with dps increases made ships like the Texas or Atlanta (or kutuzov or des moines or mino etc.) AA monsters but Texas and Atlanta today are pathetic AA wise.

I do not need to compare any stats to see what happened with Texas and Atlanta just to name a few obvious cases.

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The point is to enforce maximum sniping meta so even total potatoes can deal some damage and buy stuff.

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Same reasons artillery is so frustrating in World of Tanks. No defense/counterplay, introduces chaos, neutralizes player skill difference. 

And they are both in their respective games for the same reason: introduce chaos, cover RNG manipulation, neutralize player skill difference. 

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2 hours ago, Shungite_Merchant said:

literally feel like putting my fist through the monitor right now, too meny carriers in queue im going play something else to cool down 

I feel your frustration, friend! I am regrinding RN light cruisers and decided to start from the beginning. Playing Caledon in random with 2 cvs was a pretty horrifying experience. I literary had planes attack non stop. Bombers, rocket planes, torpedo planes over and over and over. 
Havent played those tiers in ages and I wonder how anyone expect new players to endure and enjoy this onslaught!🤷🏻‍♂️

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