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GC_Jaye

Demotivating date limits

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Why does everything need to be time limited now? From my personal view it was better months ago and at the moment it just feels like that's really too much. How many hours does one need to play at the moment to make progress in all the stuff running simultaneous? I'm surely not the best player, but I enjoy the game and in earlier times it was just like "ok then I just have too wait a little bit longer". But today everything is date limited and demotivating and also running on the same time.

 

Ranked:

I really enjoyed battles in gold for the last two weeks, but due to the weekly reset I see not really a chance to stay there in the long run. I'm still struggling a little bit with DDs (my weakest class), but my main Cruiser and BB is 60+ winrate. Since I'm trying to play for the team, it doesn't happen that often being the one not losing a star. So that would mean at least 60+ battles to reach rank 1, so like 15+ hours if you just focus on this point. Otherwise you will be ranked down.

 

Strasbourg:

Just 4 days left and not done mission step 3 yet. So no way to get it anymore for me.

 

Hizen:

Already 2 steps behind, still at mission step 3 when step 5 is starting on Tuesday. Wouldn't have expected to finish everything at all, but at the moment also my target to reach the Yahagi is questionable.

 

 

So why does everything today needs to be date limited and running the same time? I've got premium, I also support the game with some money from time to time, but also with playing it like 20 hours per week doesn't seem enough to make enough progress for the small rewards.

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5 minutes ago, GC_Jaye said:

Why does everything need to be time limited now?

Hint: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

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The very simple answer is that WG believes that having these time limits either encourages people to play more, or to pay more. Presumably it does so, and they'll have sufficient evidence to keep doing it.

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9 minutes ago, GC_Jaye said:

Why does everything need to be time limited now? From my personal view it was better months ago and at the moment it just feels like that's really too much. How many hours does one need to play at the moment to make progress in all the stuff running simultaneous? I'm surely not the best player, but I enjoy the game and in earlier times it was just like "ok then I just have too wait a little bit longer". But today everything is date limited and demotivating and also running on the same time.

 

Ranked:

I really enjoyed battles in gold for the last two weeks, but due to the weekly reset I see not really a chance to stay there in the long run. I'm still struggling a little bit with DDs (my weakest class), but my main Cruiser and BB is 60+ winrate. Since I'm trying to play for the team, it doesn't happen that often being the one not losing a star. So that would mean at least 60+ battles to reach rank 1, so like 15+ hours if you just focus on this point. Otherwise you will be ranked down.

 

Strasbourg:

Just 4 days left and not done mission step 3 yet. So no way to get it anymore for me.

 

Hizen:

Already 2 steps behind, still at mission step 3 when step 5 is starting on Tuesday. Wouldn't have expected to finish everything at all, but at the moment also my target to reach the Yahagi is questionable.

 

 

So why does everything today needs to be date limited and running the same time? I've got premium, I also support the game with some money from time to time, but also with playing it like 20 hours per week doesn't seem enough to make enough progress for the small rewards.

its not just this game EVERY game today puts you in daily missions and timed missions, then they know you have to go back and play thier game every day. If you have more time, the less you would play. Its the thing some idiot invented to all games and now games have become more of a work and less of a fun. i loved playing world of warcraft, but the amount of daily missions there is absurd now,i dont want that game becomes work..

in wows well missions are here but they are really easy or not worth the grind. Dockyard is basiclly done by itself ,just play the game and missions are done. While lets say you really want strasbourg you can buy him, but i mean really want.

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It goes hand in hand with the pay to skip mechanics, advance your progress by buying crates etc. I’m sure also there is an element of encouraging us to be online regularly keeping the population healthy. 
 

I have played this game probably too much and I admit I’m a bit of a completionist,  but there are still events I just look at and think no way is this worth the time or effort.
 

If they demotivate you with this tactic then more fool them, just play what you want when you want.

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17 minutes ago, Prophecy82 said:

Hint: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

That will hardly help you in grinding directives

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Just now, Yedwy said:

That will hardly help you in grinding directives

 

You still can buy Stras (i.e) if the FOMO catches you. 

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who says you need to do all of them, you choose the ones you think you can achieve within the time you play

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18 minutes ago, Prophecy82 said:

You still can buy Stras (i.e) if the FOMO catches you. 

How do you buy stars?

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8 minutes ago, Salentine said:

who says you need to do all of them, you choose the ones you think you can achieve within the time you play

It is like asking people why they want to use a givernment subsidy if the do not agree with it.

 

You did not learn much economics or social/human behavior, did you?

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No it's not like I want e.g. the Strasbourg at all costs, it's was just a little motivation to get some free stuff from time to time. And the important word here is "was".

 

Vor 15 Minuten, Salentine sagte:

who says you need to do all of them, you choose the ones you think you can achieve within the time you play

That's the problem, it feels like nothing is reachable anymore. I mean 20 hours per week is already a lot for a working guy, but it doesn't seem enough to catch up at one part of the game anymore and this is definitly a big change compared to e.g. one year ago. The grind is the same, but now all with date limit and also more class limits at top. If you don't get the Strasbourg, you can't make progress in this other campaign. Don't reach rank 1 in one week, you have to get headaches again doing silver again. And I bet anyone being once in gold knows why you don't want to be ranked back ;-) 

 

Vor 39 Minuten, Pandafaust sagte:

The very simple answer is that WG believes that having these time limits either encourages people to play more, or to pay more. Presumably it does so, and they'll have sufficient evidence to keep doing it.

Wonder if there is really evidence for this and that my feeling towards this topic is the minority. I already started to fire up another game instead of WoWs to enjoy my spare free time or exit it before getting the daily containers, because of the demotivation. 

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5 minutes ago, Yedwy said:

How do you buy stars?

Stras(bourg) not stars ;)

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31 minutes ago, GC_Jaye said:

That's the problem, it feels like nothing is reachable anymore. I mean 20 hours per week is already a lot for a working guy, but it doesn't seem enough to catch up at one part of the game anymore and this is definitly a big change compared to e.g. one year ago. The grind is the same, but now all with date limit and also more class limits at top. If you don't get the Strasbourg, you can't make progress in this other campaign. Don't reach rank 1 in one week, you have to get headaches again doing silver again. And I bet anyone being once in gold knows why you don't want to be ranked back ;-) 

well i don't know what your playing then, i usually finish the Hizen directive on the Thursday (it becomes active on the Tuesday) and i've done all the Strasbourg already, and i don't play 24/7, the event last year was time based, as have been many of them, soon we are getting Italian BB's then German DD line split, there will be events related to them too, so it's natural to have a time limit on them, plus as several have said it helps the coffers offering booster pack, but if you think you wouldn't have time to complete them all, why try, choose one you can complete.

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41 minutes ago, Humorpalanta said:

It is like asking people why they want to use a givernment subsidy if the do not agree with it.

 

You did not learn much economics or social/human behavior, did you?

it doesn't take a genius to realise that if you can't finish all them, to pick one you can finish and that one to get the reward, rather than not finishing any and getting nothing.

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These mechanics are here to stay because its positively affecting the bottomline of Wargaming. That should tell you things about the playerbase.

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1 hour ago, GC_Jaye said:

Otherwise you will be ranked down. 

 

You wont get ranked down if you dont reach R1. Only when a season ends, everyone starts in Bronze again. That means, if you get into gold ASAP, you will be 4 weeks in gold (assuming a 6 week cycle).

 

29 minutes ago, GC_Jaye said:

That's the problem, it feels like nothing is reachable anymore. I mean 20 hours per week is already a lot for a working guy, but it doesn't seem enough to catch up at one part of the game anymore and this is definitly a big change compared to e.g. one year ago. The grind is the same, but now all with date limit and also more class limits at top. If you don't get the Strasbourg, you can't make progress in this other campaign. Don't reach rank 1 in one week, you have to get headaches again doing silver again. And I bet anyone being once in gold knows why you don't want to be ranked back ;-) 

 

Well since the patch hit before XMas, ive played roughly 170-180 Coop battles, mostly to collect my snowflakes. Some ships ive played more often to complete missions. Ontop of that 61 ranked battles, a couple of Narai and only a handful or randoms.

That got me

- all Snowflakes collected (missing 5 or so, mostly because buying new ships and got some rental premiums, so otherwise i would have been done)

- Hizen stage 4 done, waiting for stage 5. Alltho im not interested in getting Hizen, ill only complete stage 5, which i have one month to do so i get the doubloons for Yahagi

- Strasbourg done

- Stage 5 of the 2nd campaign. Stage 4 was 8 Coop battles in Smolensk: 8x150 ribbons + 1x top 5 by XP in 8 games for 3 stars.

 

If you dont have much time, you either prioritize getting the free stuff or not if you dont want to. I dont think ive invested a lot of time the first 3 weeks, only this week ive played more to finish the Strasbourg campaign and started with the other campaign, which is actually rather easy, except for a few missions here and there which kinda suck.

Some days i didnt play at all, others i just collected like 3-5 snowflakes in Coop, which is not much more than half an hour. But there are certain ways to make the campaigns easier by just repeating certain missions over and over.

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2 hours ago, GC_Jaye said:

Ranked:

...

Strasbourg:

...

Hizen:

...

Dates are known in advance. Everyone can plan ahead and decide what is possible and what not.

 

Ranked: Was always time limited

Strasbourg: Christmas Events were always time limited, that is why they are called Christmas Events and not First Quarter or Half a Year events

Hizen: Dockyards were always time limited and WG doubled the duration compared to last year...

 

WG never promised that everyone can get everything in this game. When you cannot finish a task, you do not get the reward.

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1 hour ago, Yedwy said:

How do you buy stars?

 

Taking the current campaigns as an example, it's set up so the "easiest" way of completing the Strasbourg campaign is to buy a Hizen outright and use that to grind a Strasbourg.  The santa campaign (I forget the name right now) is the same, by buying the Strasbourg to get past the initial gate. It is of course possible to complete the Strasbourg and Santa campaigns without buying anything, but it requires people to grind through both in a short-ish time period, especially that last week, and is therefore (naturally) designed to encourage people to pay some money to e.g. get an early Strasbourg which they use for the Santa campaign.  It's not something I particularly mind, they need to monetise the game somehow and at least this way it's an optional choice for anyone who feels they want any reward in particular.

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Vor 41 Minuten, Salentine sagte:

it doesn't take a genius to realise that if you can't finish all them, to pick one you can finish and that one to get the reward, rather than not finishing any and getting nothing.

Like I said, at the moment it feels you nearly can't reach anything like in earlier times when the stuff was running just on the side (done when it's done) or at least in a more relaxed time frame. I mean at the moment I'm trying to get into the CV stuff to improve my DD play. One Hizen mission at stage 3 is nearly 1 million flooding damage, but like many it doesn't really scale well for a one week timeframe.

 

Vor 39 Minuten, DFens_666 sagte:

 

You wont get ranked down if you dont reach R1. Only when a season ends, everyone starts in Bronze again. That means, if you get into gold ASAP, you will be 4 weeks in gold (assuming a 6 week cycle).

 

 

Well since the patch hit before XMas, ive played roughly 170-180 Coop battles, mostly to collect my snowflakes. Some ships ive played more often to complete missions. Ontop of that 61 ranked battles, a couple of Narai and only a handful or randoms.

That got me

- all Snowflakes collected (missing 5 or so, mostly because buying new ships and got some rental premiums, so otherwise i would have been done)

- Hizen stage 4 done, waiting for stage 5. Alltho im not interested in getting Hizen, ill only complete stage 5, which i have one month to do so i get the doubloons for Yahagi

- Strasbourg done

- Stage 5 of the 2nd campaign. Stage 4 was 8 Coop battles in Smolensk: 8x150 ribbons + 1x top 5 by XP in 8 games for 3 stars.

 

If you dont have much time, you either prioritize getting the free stuff or not if you dont want to. I dont think ive invested a lot of time the first 3 weeks, only this week ive played more to finish the Strasbourg campaign and started with the other campaign, which is actually rather easy, except for a few missions here and there which kinda suck.

Some days i didnt play at all, others i just collected like 3-5 snowflakes in Coop, which is not much more than half an hour. But there are certain ways to make the campaigns easier by just repeating certain missions over and over.

 

Afaik this is just for the test season, after you will start at gold again when you was gold the season before. I'm a full PvP Player, no matter which genre, I don't like PvE at all. Had some free days over christmas so I was able to do >180 ranked matches (gold since third week) and gold is really worth it for the quality of games. But getting 20 stars is hell of grind with this weekly reset, also with a 60% win rate. Bronze was laughable (just 1 lost match if I remember it correctly) and like playing against bots. Silver was like the typical random matches, quali for gold was were the fun started. So instead of having somehow a real skill based categorization, you need to be a back damage spammer or grind every day hours to avoid returning two senseless weeks every season. And of course to grind that much you would need to put everything else aside, which means no playing up other lines to improve your knowledge of other ships and of course no rewards.

 

 

Vor 1 Minute, ColonelPete sagte:

Dates are known in advance. Everyone can plan ahead and decide what is possible and what not.

 

Ranked: Was always time limited

Strasbourg: Christmas Events were always time limited, that is why they are called Christmas Events and not First Quarter or Half a Year events

Hizen: Dockyards were always time limited and WG doubled the duration compared to last year...

 

WG never promised that everyone can get everything in this game. When you cannot finish a task, you do not get the reward.

 

Months ago I was motivated to play more, because I've made progress and from time to time there were rewards. And sure if someone wanted to do faster progress he could do so with premium time etc. But today the rewards are mostly only achievable when you play like hell (where you don't need premium at all because you get your containers easily or other xp based missions) or you play not for the team (and focus on getting your torp hit counter together or whatever).

 

So my assumption is:

They are killing the motivation for the "normal" player at the moment.

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its a psychological term called habitualisation and "FOMO"(fear of mission out).

they use the high time investment to make playing frequently a habit even if its not fun, and/or make you spend in order to reduce the time needed.

 

though there are ways to shortcut the missions by following path of least resistance and spamming the objective that is quickest to get stars.

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1 minute ago, GC_Jaye said:

Months ago I was motivated to play more, because I've made progress and from time to time there were rewards. And sure if someone wanted to do faster progress he could do so with premium time etc. But today the rewards are mostly only achievable when you play like hell (where you don't need premium at all because you get your containers easily or other xp based missions) or you play not for the team (and focus on getting your torp hit counter together or whatever).

 

So my assumption is:

They are killing the motivation for the "normal" player at the moment.

And you still get more rewards for playing more. How is that killing the motivation?

 

And when you mean "casual" when saying "normal", then yes, these players usually do not get the best rewards, but that was never different.

 

I did not get Puerto Rico last year. I did not even try it, because it was obvious I could not get her without spending a lot.

I did not even go for Benham, because I knew I could not keep up the daily frequency of matches needed to get her.

 

But when you are not aware what you can do and what not, you might end up attempting something you cannot reach.

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9 minutes ago, Pandafaust said:

Taking the current campaigns as an example, it's set up so the "easiest" way of completing the Strasbourg campaign is to buy a Hizen outright and use that to grind a Strasbourg.  The santa campaign (I forget the name right now) is the same, by buying the Strasbourg to get past the initial gate. It is of course possible to complete the Strasbourg and Santa campaigns without buying anything, but it requires people to grind through both in a short-ish time period, especially that last week, and is therefore (naturally) designed to encourage people to pay some money to e.g. get an early Strasbourg which they use for the Santa campaign.  It's not something I particularly mind, they need to monetise the game somehow and at least this way it's an optional choice for anyone who feels they want any reward in particular.

Making something easier does not equal buying for cash, buying say 500 premium crates that contain some coal to buy Thunderer outright - that is skipping the grind with money, buying premium access or a booster to get some grind done faster is not, you still have to put in the elbow grease, just less of it...

 

In short there is no way to buy the stars, you can buy the Strasbourg directly OFC but that is an entirely different story...

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1 hour ago, GC_Jaye said:

Wonder if there is really evidence for this and that my feeling towards this topic is the minority. I already started to fire up another game instead of WoWs to enjoy my spare free time or exit it before getting the daily containers, because of the demotivation. 

 

This is anecdotal though - there will always be people on the forums saying that the introduction of time-gated/paid content is driving them away from the game, and there will always be people who claim the exact opposite.  The only people who have the evidence either way are going to be WG, as they'll have all the data saying whether the introduction of the content is generating more downloads/active players/activity from existing players and whether that outweighs the loss from existing players - and crucially whether the amount of money coming in each month/quarter is going up or down when they introduce it.  Given that all the signs are that WG is making money faster than they can effectively spend it, presumably the approach is working for them.

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10 minutes ago, GC_Jaye said:

Afaik this is just for the test season, after you will start at gold again when you was gold the season before.

 

No, new season = everyone starts in bronze again. Otherwise that wouldnt make sense, because eventually, everyone would be in gold league if you cant ever get out of it (unless some players deliberately stay in Bronze or Silver, which i think only those interested in best rewards / time will do)

Anyway, still cant lose gold within one season even if you dont get R1 - i think that was your main concern.

 

12 minutes ago, GC_Jaye said:

had some free days over christmas so I was able to do >180 ranked matches

 

So there isnt really that much difference in the amount of games we played. I maybe did like 250 if i count everything, but coop require much less time so i probably didnt spend more time playing than you did. With 180 ranked/random games, i thought you could advance further in the campaigns/missions. Its not like, doing them in coop is generally much easier, its just faster. Some missions are even easier in randoms (XP/credits) than in coop, while ofc you do have missions which are easier in coop than randoms.

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