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The_Chiv

Lets break down the new T10 Elbing

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5f9ca91f371fa436d18194d38bd5d36a.thumb.jpg.98796efc5480114871b8e0cfe5a8ec99.jpg

a79ebcdc9460cc301497e33535dcc799.thumb.png.4ecab156ef6a2d170f060f9754746a9a.png

 

Ok so lets get the obligatory out of the way no smoke.

 

So what kind of play style is this ship. Not a torpboat only having 8km torps and a max conceal of 6.6, Not a flank harasser/ speed tank having a top speed of 38.01, not a dd hunter when you look at the speed and consumables. It is kind of meh right? well lets take a look at it again with the new commander skills and see if this thing gets any better.

 

For those of who need a refresher of dd skills under .10.0 

06371d61c1a84f42962dafdc656504f9.thumb.png.c4c2318f3a9bc631391adc10c6a8964e.png

 

So going down the line to 21 for me would look something like. Maintenance specialist, propulsive, Main battery and aa specialist, concealment expert(10) Dazzling, Main battery and aa expert, Armor piercing destroyer, and alarming. 

 

Even with all this what you end up with rather meek excuse for a dd. Oh sure the AP looks great on paper and maybe even with that accuracy and improved pen angles you may get a few good shots on a cruiser, but when the cruiser can out gun you by volume and rate of fire it is kind of a meek point.

 

This ship just feels very weak. And really not anything we really need in the game. WE need more DD hunters not worse UK cls with no heal. This ship should have a reload booster and a heal standard and that AA needs some beef on the long and mid.

 

 

 

 

 

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What worries me more is, that this thing looks HUGE, and it turns like a brick.

Guess WG likes really meh german DDs... Z35, Z44, those new techtree DDs and the ZF2 (?) looks really *edit* to me.

 

Sure, almost 35k HP with SE is quite impressive for a DD, but it doesnt have smoke, the maneuvrability looks bad, has no heal either so i expect, you will bleed a lot of health if you try to gunboat in the open. Its not like having 6 guns with 7,5 sec reload is impressive either.

But atleast it has DefAA :cap_fainting:

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Vor 2 Stunden, The_Chiv sagte:

And really not anything we really need in the game. WE need more DD hunters...

Who made you head of the "what we need" committee?

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2 hours ago, The_Chiv said:

WE need more DD hunters

 

And why is that?

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On 1/15/2021 at 1:32 AM, Johnny_Moneto said:

Who made you head of the "what we need" committee?

It's called a forum. A place where people can state their opinions. 

On 1/15/2021 at 12:09 AM, DFens_666 said:

What worries me more is, that this thing looks HUGE, and it turns like a brick.

Guess WG likes really meh german DDs... Z35, Z44, those new techtree DDs and the ZF2 (?) looks really *edit* to me.

 

Sure, almost 35k HP with SE is quite impressive for a DD, but it doesnt have smoke, the maneuvrability looks bad, has no heal either so i expect, you will bleed a lot of health if you try to gunboat in the open. Its not like having 6 guns with 7,5 sec reload is impressive either.

But atleast it has DefAA :cap_fainting:

I would say by the picture it is comparable to say a Kleber in length. If it had maybe 38kts base then I can almost see this working going full range build and just annoying the hell out of the enemy, but then it just gets eaten alive by cvs. I mean large dd that isnt going over 40kts is pretty easy to hit with rockets and DFAA on this platform wont mean a thing as all of its AA is in the short range so as you take a 10k hit you will kill one plane. And then there is 2 flak for 6 150mm guns. WTF.

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Just now, El2aZeR said:

 

And why is that?

Healthier meta since relying on a cv to be useful tends to be a wasted prayer and most DDs are ill equipped or too scared to engage other dds.

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Vor 8 Minuten, The_Chiv sagte:

It's called a forum. A place where people can state their opinions. 

 

You can say what you would like to see in the game, but don't speak for me please.

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3 hours ago, DFens_666 said:

almost 35k HP with SE is quite impressive for a DD

We should probably recall that WG were talking about these things having good armour; if it's good enough to arm AP shells, all those hp are going to evapourate pretty quickly as soon as anything with big guns starts taking a serious interest...

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*Players*: all the BBs and CA/CLs are kemping islands and spotting DDs can't do their job because they get rekt by CVs

 

*WG*: Implements german DDs with CL playstyle of kemping island and mounting useless DFAA

 

*WG* lead dev:Yes, i am a genius thank you for noticing - 1889 [10] guy | Meme Generator

 

.....let's hope WG remember to give these things USN CL arcs.

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Its yet another ship line that shows how far devs are out of touch with actuall meta on the live servers, also its obvious they are running out of ideas for lines and implement them solely for grinding purposes as game stands now, what I deduce from those for long run though is - its inevitable we will see subs within a year or so, these are likely to be "support dds" with AAA and ASW role and we might see an increase in the random team sizes up to 15-18 ships per side to allow slots for these new ships...

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7 minutes ago, Yedwy said:

and we might see an increase in the random team sizes up to 15-18 ships per side to allow slots for these new ships...

Are you kidding? The game already has issues dealing with 12 players per team. WG cannot even create a UI that responds in a timely manner.

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Its a very weird concept, to say the least. The hydro, on a ship with these characteristics, is very situational or acts only as a devensive tool against torps. Yes, when you see a smoked up DD you can get close to hydro it, but you need to be sure to either face a noob, that will just stay in the smoke, or be confident, that you will win the gunbattle. Once you engage, there is no way out. With the concealment / speed it also means, that many DDs can just keep Elbing perma spotted without anything you can do about it. Unless you manage to run so far back, that the enemy DD cant follow you any loger, as in a kilometer behind your cruisers, f.e. With that, the HP pool doesnt sound that awesome any longer, and we dont know, what the armor will look like.

 

Gun performance looks absolutly underwhelming for a T10 DD. doesnt matter how good the AP is, this ship will have a hard time engaging other cruisers. Again, situational. sure, there can be the occasionl full broadside Mino with half health, which you might be able to take out (again, any other DD spotting the same Mino just needs to wait for a BB to make it go boom), but thats about it? Which cruisers would you like to gunfight with a 7,5 (little less with module) sec reload? A Henri? Again, once you are comitted, there is no way out, because a Henri f.e. can just run you down. Given the AP really has superb penetration (which german ships are not knon for) it might be the ultimate opportunist. Wait for a low health cruiser broadside, that you can take you with one salvo from ~8 km or so. If the penetration is enough, thats still the question in the room.

 

And I dont even want to talk about a game with a CV. As with the opponent Cruisers and DDs, you can only hope for the CV to be incompetent I guess? So the entire concept runs down to you hoping, that CVs, Cruisers and DDs are incompetent and dont know how to react to you. Because if they do, they will outplay you. Ok..

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She needs:

  • at least UK DD smoke
  • 10km torps
  • slightly better concealment
  • higher RoF
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They look pretty nice to play. I don’t know anything about AA stats, but I hope it is the same as Halland. 


Sadly not a fan of giving ships improved ricochet angles, but knowing how strong the current tier 10 AP is on the Z52 vs some destroyers it will be interesting to see how this one will do.

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These are not Halland as they dont have heal, also they are not Marceau as they dont have the speed or US as they dont have smoke...

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Gun range and ROF are terrible. Other than that I can see these things being usable if they get a heal instead of the useless DFAA.

 

Basically you pick either ROF module for anti DD work or Range module for anti cruiser/BB ... but without a heal these are fodder for about any cruiser.

 

Ideally they should start with 6 seconds ROF and 13.5km gun range ...

 

EDIT: Turning circle is too large ...

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Its almost as if WG does not like stealth & smoke gameplay anymore...

 

/irony

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I’ll take my little German  destroyer up to a Worcester thinking I will kill him with citadels. He returns fire taking out my engine and a turret. I will repair and fire again. Now he’s angled I get no more citadels. He fires again and again. Four fires and I regret my life’s decisions.

 

Making a destroyer to kill light cruisers is very questionable.

150mm AP will overpen destroyers at almost all angles. There has been no mention of reduced fuse time so I assume these ships will also be poor against destroyers. 
This line looks poor right now.

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1 hour ago, LemonadeWarriorITA said:

They look pretty nice to play. I don’t know anything about AA stats, but I hope it is the same as Halland. 

By the looks of it, worse actually. Longer range by 0.9 km, but less flak, and les DPS overall. Halland spits out more flak, has nearly 3 times the long range DPS and a higher mid DPS thanks to the mid range being 1 km more.

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On 1/15/2021 at 9:30 AM, gopher31 said:

I’ll take my little German  destroyer up to a Worcester thinking I will kill him with citadels. He returns fire taking out my engine and a turret. I will repair and fire again. Now he’s angled I get no more citadels. He fires again and again. Four fires and I regret my life’s decisions.

 

Making a destroyer to kill light cruisers is very questionable.

150mm AP will overpen destroyers at almost all angles. There has been no mention of reduced fuse time so I assume these ships will also be poor against destroyers. 
This line looks poor right now.

given sufficient dispersion and range you can delete DDs with AP by aiming a hair below waterline ... you won't overpen ... I'll have to test this when the ship is on PTS ...

 

EDIT: after some testing, it looks like this mechanic is no longer working. Shells that touch the water simply vanish ....

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9 hours ago, The_Chiv said:

WE need more DD hunters

 

No we don't, there is already plenty of DD hunters in the game. 

 

These are just initial stats, they will probably change. Lot of things depends on how good some other things that are not mentioned would be, like AP pen values or armour scheme. And while some things look underwhelming there are some things that looks interesting. For example its dispersion of 58m on 12.3km range. This is better than Yubari one with the ASM0. If I'm not wrong that is the best dispersion in the game  Add to this a good velocity of 960m/s and improved pen angles, these guns could be really nasty if you catch someone of guard. While DPM is quite poor, full broadside AP alpha is 24.6k, so with just two salvos it could technically kill a cruiser like Mino or Zao. So IMO there is a potential, question is where will WG go from here as there are some serious issues. 

 

IMO they don't need a heal or smoke or better concealment, but things like much better AA and a speed boost, maybe similar to the one that Smaland or Yolo Emilio has would be nice.

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1 minute ago, fumtu said:

No we don't, there is already plenty of DD hunters in the game. 

 

Exactly. What we need, is something to deal with BBs. And CVs, since the question is out in the open.

 

2 minutes ago, fumtu said:

For example its dispersion of 58m on 12.3km range. This is better than Yubari one with the ASM0. If I'm not wrong that is the best dispersion in the game  

 

That caught my eye aswell...

 

3 minutes ago, fumtu said:

While DPM is quite poor, full broadside AP alpha is 24.6k, so with just two salvos it could technically kill a cruiser like Mino or Zao.

 

Indeed. I still dont understand, why we need a(nother) light cruiser killer. Its already hard enough to play those ships, so hard, that we have a majority of players sailing nothing but Thunderers, Jean Barts and Georgias on high tiers.

 

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14 minutes ago, gopher31 said:

I’ll take my little German  destroyer up to a Worcester thinking I will kill him with citadels

It's not little. It's *really* not little. It has 30K base health - that's a much as a stock Cleveland. In all respects other than having a citadel, it's a light cruiser. Except it's a light cruiser with destroyer detection (7.4km achievable) and the ability to send torpedoes from stealth. 

 

15 minutes ago, gopher31 said:

Now he’s angled I get no more citadels.

Switch to HE. It's German HE, so it goes through 38mm of armour. You can pen Worcester through the bow, stern and top armour belt. AP is a skill element here because of the massive difference in Alpha damage between the two shell types, but compared to other destroyers your HE offers far more target options and reliable damage.

 

What's going to annoy most people about this ship is that it's taking a DD slot but may not be able to do "DD things" particularly well.  We shall have to see how that pans out.

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