Jump to content
Planned Server Restart 23.06.2021 at 04:00 UTC (no downtime) Read more... ×
Sign in to follow this  
You need to play a total of 50 battles to post in this section.
Pururut

Tier 9 Ships

33 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

Players
131 posts
124 battles

Recently Wargaming has made previously free xp obtainable ships available for doubloons and cash. I always had an interest in large cruisers but didnt have the time necessary for farming enough free xp. Now that I am eligible to obtain a large cruiser, I have come to the forum to ask which one to buy based on my preferred playstyle. Would have gone through extensive guides/wiki pages/etc in the past to decide for myself but those days with limitless free time are long gone.

 

I like mid to long range gun fights; preferably with high velocity HE and/or good AP shells capable of plunging fire. Anti-air and survivability are secondary provided that the ship is nimble and quick to respond. As far as cruiser gameplay goes, I have zero interest in lobbing shells over islands, dd chasing and bow on tanking as that kind of gameplay is stressful. Long story short I just want something capable of duking it out with cruisers and battleships at mid to long distances.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[-TPF-]
Players
4,670 posts
19,141 battles

Alaska and Agir. Put those ships at Tier VIII and they'd be fast battleships: decent guns, decent armour, much better survivability than traditional Cruisers. Agir is less well regarded because Siegfried and Pommern exist but it's still a very good ship. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[SM0KE]
Players
6,973 posts
15,473 battles
13 minutes ago, Pururut said:

which one to buy

I'm not good enough (at all) in cruisers to offer very informed advice, besides - as a DD main - observing that a well-played Alaska is one of the most major threats that I face (bonus points for coal radar mod).

 

Unless you want one that's about to be removed (Alaska, I think, from the T9 super cruisers), there is a lot to be said for waiting a bit: as I understand it (from the competent players), the upcoming captain rework is going to have a metaphorically similar effect on the super cruisers as placing your happy sacks on a block of concrete and then repeatedly (and vigorously) applying a substantial sledge-hammer to same. If you can, suggest waiting to see to what extent the warnings are accurate...

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[NA-TO]
Players
115 posts

I also agree Alaska is a beast, Agir is good but Alaska has radar and is very accurate.

 

 

Just to add that the Captain rework, will affect Alaska but it won't matter too much, Agir it will affect more, just because Alaska is so good, Agir has very useable torps though.

 

But Radar.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[CHEFT]
Players
12,664 posts
9,841 battles
8 minutes ago, snadge666 said:

Just to add that the Captain rework, will affect Alaska but it won't matter too much, Agir it will affect more, just because Alaska is so good, Agir has very useable torps though.

 

I think itll affect Alaska more than Ägir. Atleast if you wanna make use of that radar, since you might end up in a bow on or close to an island position. Ägir being on the move at longer ranges will have less issues burning for 60 sec without having FP/BoS anymore, because you will be in less danger being HE farmed at longer ranges than in an offensive position.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
131 posts
124 battles

How about Azuma? I am curious for everyone said a thing or two about Alaska and Agir but nothing about the Japanese counterpart.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[SM0KE]
Players
6,973 posts
15,473 battles
19 minutes ago, Pururut said:

How about Azuma? I am curious for everyone said a thing or two about Alaska and Agir but nothing about the Japanese counterpart.

I believe the approximate consensus is that she's (to quote Trainspotting) 'no bad, but no great' i.e. there are worse ships, but Alaska/Agir are noticeably better, at least at the moment.

 

If you like the smell of Azuma, Yoshino seems to be felt to be better, and you can get her for coal.

 

I can't give you a 'proper player' view on Azuma though, as mine spends its time in Coop, running a full manly build (for giggles). After the captain rework messes all that up, I suppose I'll have to change that all out for a more sensible build - chiz!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
10,383 posts
12,044 battles
2 hours ago, Pururut said:

I like mid to long range gun fights; preferably with high velocity HE and/or good AP shells capable of plunging fire.

"High velocity" and "plunging fire" are mutually exclusive. Heck, even "low velocity" and "plunging fire" are mutually exclusive given ricochet angles exist in this game. Closest to "good AP" exists on Alaska due to improved ricochet angles, even if her AP penetration is the worst among CBs.

 

2 hours ago, Pururut said:

Anti-air and survivability are secondary provided that the ship is nimble and quick to respond.

Ships you're talking about are displacing as much as interwar battleships and lengthwise they are comparable to ww2 designs. They are NOT going to be nimble and quick to respond

 

2 hours ago, Pururut said:

Long story short I just want something capable of duking it out with cruisers and battleships at mid to long distances

Most large cruisers will be outgunned by same tier cruisers on "HE dpm" grounds unless you manage to land (multiple) citadel hits. And given properties of CB guns in this game - no overmatch on most cruisers, notorious overpens due to 50-51mm arming threshold and insufficient AP pen to reliably threaten battleships with citadels, AP on large cruisers is extraordinarily situational.

 

For mid to long range, Azuma might be best pick if looking at guns alone - velocity and overall best accuracy among CBs. Issues with her:

-she is absolute glass cannon

-Yoshino exists

 

Basically the best "large cruiser", or rather "battlecruiser" at tier 9 you can get is Georgia.

-same dispersion as Alaska and Agir, which is remarkably accurate by BB standards, coupled with faster than average reload more than makes up for only 6 guns

-457mm guns means she uptiers very well, as she can overmatch 30mm plating used on most T10 cruisers. Even overpens deals significant amount of hurt

-fastest of the bunch thanks to improved Engine Boost, clocking up to 40kts

-reasonable anti air

-fast reloading heal allows you to soak ridiculous amounts of punishment at times

-improved secondaries for memes

Only drawbacks of hers are relatively vulnerable citadel and slow turret traverse.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[SCRUB]
Supertester, Players, Sailing Hamster
3,434 posts
4,673 battles
25 minutes ago, Panocek said:

"High velocity" and "plunging fire" are mutually exclusive. Heck, even "low velocity" and "plunging fire" are mutually exclusive given ricochet angles exist in this game. [...]

 

Frontal citadel with Alabama against a NC at 20 km says otherwise :D

  • Bad 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[CHEFT]
Players
12,664 posts
9,841 battles
34 minutes ago, Panocek said:

Most large cruisers will be outgunned by same tier cruisers on "HE dpm" grounds unless you manage to land (multiple) citadel hits. And given properties of CB guns in this game - no overmatch on most cruisers, notorious overpens due to 50-51mm arming threshold and insufficient AP pen to reliably threaten battleships with citadels, AP on large cruisers is extraordinarily situational.

 

Alaska is one of the worst Cruisers to face being in a "normal" Cruiser.

Also with sufficient range, Overpens become less likely thanks to impact angle (more of an issue for Kronshtadt due to the high velocity shells). And if you overpen broadside Cruisers then you didnt aim low enough :Smile-_tongue:

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[JRM]
[JRM]
Players
7,774 posts
10 hours ago, Pururut said:

Recently Wargaming has made previously free xp obtainable ships available for doubloons and cash. I always had an interest in large cruisers but didnt have the time necessary for farming enough free xp. Now that I am eligible to obtain a large cruiser, I have come to the forum to ask which one to buy based on my preferred playstyle. Would have gone through extensive guides/wiki pages/etc in the past to decide for myself but those days with limitless free time are long gone.

 

I like mid to long range gun fights; preferably with high velocity HE and/or good AP shells capable of plunging fire. Anti-air and survivability are secondary provided that the ship is nimble and quick to respond. As far as cruiser gameplay goes, I have zero interest in lobbing shells over islands, dd chasing and bow on tanking as that kind of gameplay is stressful. Long story short I just want something capable of duking it out with cruisers and battleships at mid to long distances.

None, the upcoming rework will gimp the large/capital cruisers for a long while and investing in any of them is pointless...

 

If you absolutely HAVE to get one or want one for collector purposes Alaska is kinda the obvious choice beeing the only one actually built as well as the most versatile of them...

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
203 posts

but why you dont buy all of them? wg/lesta would be very happy and with your ~100 battles you are ready for high tier battles ...

  • Funny 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[BAD-A]
[BAD-A]
Beta Tester
2,070 posts
16 minutes ago, hypsar said:

but why you dont buy all of them? wg/lesta would be very happy and with your ~100 battles you are ready for high tier battles ...

It's a failed reroll, or someone trying to get around a forum ban.......

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
10,383 posts
12,044 battles
8 hours ago, piritskenyer said:

 

Frontal citadel with Alabama against a NC at 20 km says otherwise :D

Which involved hitting flat part of the bow. When I've tested "plunging fire", NC + spotter, at 27km was still incapable of "not ricocheting" off CV armored deck, while USN dual purpose mortars found on most US destroyers needed around 14km to start scoring non pens instead ricochets.

 

8 hours ago, DFens_666 said:

 

Alaska is one of the worst Cruisers to face being in a "normal" Cruiser.

Also with sufficient range, Overpens become less likely thanks to impact angle (more of an issue for Kronshtadt due to the high velocity shells). And if you overpen broadside Cruisers then you didnt aim low enough :Smile-_tongue:

Angle needed to arm 305mm AP shell against 25mm plating is in guaranteed ricochet territory. Only reason Alaska can score regular pen is due to her improved angles.

 

High velocity doesn't really matter unless you're talking about "very close and very personal" distances

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[SHAD]
Players
3,797 posts
15,180 battles

Alaska seems to fit the bill quite nicely. It’s ricochet angles, penetration and accuracy make it one of the worst ships to face as a cruiser. It’s short reload gives you no time to turn out. It’s HE is better than Agirs and works nicely when battleships angle while it’s radar and reload make it deadly toward destroyers. As a side note: the other day I got 65 plane kills against a midway in one.

 

Agir is the better brawler due to its torps and 90mm side plating make tankier when angled. However it’s higher citadel is much easier to hit than Alaska’s. Alaska battleship grade deck make it safe even against Yamato plunging fire.I tend to think that Agir is the more fun ship while Alaska is more effective.

 

 

Georgia is a very fast battleship so it certainly could interest you. It has accurate guns and better armour than Alaska but does have a fairly exposed citadel. It’s reload is short for a battleship and it has 30mm overmatch.

 

I would go Alaska.

 

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[CHEFT]
Players
12,664 posts
9,841 battles
1 hour ago, Panocek said:

Angle needed to arm 305mm AP shell against 25mm plating is in guaranteed ricochet territory. Only reason Alaska can score regular pen is due to her improved angles.

 

High velocity doesn't really matter unless you're talking about "very close and very personal" distances

 

I meant, that shells also have an impact angle based on range.

image.png.1bf9f30e2f938b5d078d850cc09bf219.png

 

Which ofc also influences the thickness of the armor. Thats why i said, its more an issue with Kronshtadt as the shells have a flat trajectory, compared to others, especially Alaska.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[HOO]
Players
2,192 posts
3,922 battles
13 hours ago, Verblonde said:

I'm not good enough (at all) in cruisers to offer very informed advice, besides - as a DD main - observing that a well-played Alaska is one of the most major threats that I face (bonus points for coal radar mod).

 

Unless you want one that's about to be removed (Alaska, I think, from the T9 super cruisers), there is a lot to be said for waiting a bit: as I understand it (from the competent players), the upcoming captain rework is going to have a metaphorically similar effect on the super cruisers as placing your happy sacks on a block of concrete and then repeatedly (and vigorously) applying a substantial sledge-hammer to same. If you can, suggest waiting to see to what extent the warnings are accurate...

Agreed, WG stated in an article a while ago, that they want the Super Cruisers to be susceptible to fires. Burning down is a slow frustrating death, more so if you've paid money for the privilege.

 

It looks like WG are trying to force change the static meta we've had for a while now, and take the opportunity to nerf some OP free/premium boats in the process. Spending cash on something that may not play like it used to in future, could be a mistake at this point.

 

Being cynical, WG could simply be putting up these boats for cash, as a last cash grab, before the changes hit. They've done it before, look at Atlanta as the focus of the 2020 Summer Sale, followed by the Commander Skills rework announcement which changed her overnight, and apparently for the worse.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
10,383 posts
12,044 battles
18 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

 

I meant, that shells also have an impact angle based on range.

image.png.1bf9f30e2f938b5d078d850cc09bf219.png

 

Which ofc also influences the thickness of the armor. Thats why i said, its more an issue with Kronshtadt as the shells have a flat trajectory, compared to others, especially Alaska.

And unless you're talking about 45km+ shots, vertical angle of impact is effectively irrelevant

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[CHEFT]
Players
12,664 posts
9,841 battles
1 minute ago, Panocek said:

And unless you're talking about 45km+ shots, vertical angle of impact is effectively irrelevant

 

No, you are thinking about plunging fire.

Im saying, that armor is not 2-dimensional. 25mm of armor angled at 30° (ricochet angle) has a relative thickness of 50mm. But that would mean, that your shell is coming in like a laserbeam, because the shell also has to travel downwards, which makes the armor thicker.

image.png.eff3caf75abf16ad41161571e72301ab.png

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
10,383 posts
12,044 battles
Just now, DFens_666 said:

 

No, you are thinking about plunging fire.

Im saying, that armor is not 2-dimensional. 25mm of armor angled at 30° (ricochet angle) has a relative thickness of 50mm. But that would mean, that your shell is coming in like a laserbeam, because the shell also has to travel downwards, which makes the armor thicker.

image.png.eff3caf75abf16ad41161571e72301ab.png

 

And I'm rather sure vertical angle of impact combines with horizontal one

 

And you've said it yourself:

1 minute ago, DFens_666 said:

(ricochet angle)

So only Alaska could actually hope for arming AP shells thanks to her improved angles

but-wait-theres-more-.jpg

 

There is also normalization, intended to help with penetration against angled plates. And for 283mm+ guns its 6 degrees, thus Alaska to arm the AP shell against 25mm plating would require 24 degrees angle (66 of perpendicular) of impact... not far from 22.5 (67.5) which is guaranteed ricochet.

 

And lets not forget Alaska needs 51mm plating thickness to arm the fuse, not 50mm :cap_tea:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[ZENIT]
Players
72 posts

Wait till commander rework, without some key skill, some ships are going to be nerfed indirectly (and battle cruiser and cruisers harder then others) 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[SPURD]
Players
869 posts
6,596 battles
14 hours ago, Pururut said:

How about Azuma? I am curious for everyone said a thing or two about Alaska and Agir but nothing about the Japanese counterpart.

Great guns, but lacks anything special unlike the other FXP supercruisers. The gimmick is long range HE alpha. Do you want that, or great armor (Alaska or Ägir) turtleback (Ägir) torps (Ägir) radar (Alaska) superb AP (Alaska)... 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sign in to follow this  

×