Commander Skills Update

[XalYWero]

On 1/17/2021 at 12:00 PM, Mirdwen said:

 

 

Hello, fellow english speaking people.
I don't often come here (I'm french) but ... by curiosity, I've made the exercise to convert my old DD build into the new ones, just to see how impacted my captain will be (because, as already stated, it costs a lot of commander XP to get from 19 pts to 21 pts) ...
 

Well, I would like to know what do you think about the maths,  and if it's still fine for DD, or if no specific ships are targeted ?

 

Today, build Shima with 19 pts captain :  1 pts : PM* / 2 pts : AR + LS / 3 pts : SE + TAE / 4 pts : RPF + CE

Tomorrow, same build : 1 pts : Maintenance Specialist (PM) / 2 pts : Propulsive (LS) / 3 pts : TAE + AR  + Enduring (SE) / 4 pts : RPF + CE = 20 pts ... Oups.

 

Today, build Smaland with 19 pts captain : 1 pts : PT + PM* / 2 pts : AR + LS / 3 pts : SE + BFT + SI / 4 pts : CE

Tomorrow, same build : 1 pts : PM / 2 pts : Argus Eyed (PT) + Propulsive (LS) / 3 pts : AR + Enduring (SE) + Provident (SI) / 4 pts : Fearless (kind of BFT) + CE  = 22 pts ... Oupsy daisy

 

Today, build Z-52 with 19 pts captain : 1 pts : PT + PM* / 2 pts : AR + LS / 3 pts : SE + TAE + SI / 4 pts : CE

Tomorrow, same build : 1 pts : PM / 2 pts : Argus Eyed (PT) + Propulsive (LS) / 3 pts : AR + Enduring (SE) + Provident (SI) + TAE / CE  = 21 pts ... Ooooooooooooooooh thank you weegee to allow me to keep the same build I have now for a mere 1.2M captain xp more !

 

Today, build Harugumo with 19 pts captain :  1 pts : PM* / 2 pts : AR + LS / 3 pts : SE + BFT / 4 pts : IFHE + CE

Tomorrow, same build : 1 pts : Maintenance Specialist (PM) / 2 pts : Propulsive (LS) / 3 pts : AR  + Enduring (SE) + Threshing (IFHE) / 4 pts : Fearless (BFT) + CE = 20 pts ... Nope, still not there.

 

Today, build Khabarovsk with 19 pts captain :  1 pts : PT + PM* / 2 pts : AR + LS / 3 pts : SE + BFT + DE / 4 pts : AFT

Tomorrow, same build : 1 pts : Maintenance Specialist (PM) / 2 pts : Propulsive (LS) + AE (PT) + Pyrotechnist (DE) / 3 pts : AR  + Enduring (SE)  / 4 pts : Fearless (BFT) + Main Battery Expert (AFT) = 21 pts ... It's still a no.

 

Well, at this stage, I've no words anymore : ok, you do whatever you want with your game. But please, stop trying to making us think it's an improvement.

Yes, they made 2 overpowered skills (PT and AR) cost 1 point more (while also buffing AR). Not sure why there's suddenly a problem with balancing the game (the fact these skills are broken by design and should be included in the base game can be put to the side for now). Also if a build cost the maximum amount of points before, wouldn't it be buffed if it didn't cost the maximum amount of points now? Another thing to consider is that this commander skills rework is intended to incentivize different builds, and to paraphrase shonai from the dev stream, you are not meant to be trying to recreate the same builds you used before.

[TheBicentennialman]

so Dev are still going ahead with this trash skill update it just blow the mind how stubborn WarGaming is

you sit there on stream saying ( how your feedback matters to us ) it misleading but i digress it your company your rules RIGHT

[Yamashiro42]

What is the benefit of taking a ship without a commander to the battle in 0.10.0?
Except that you can do that unintentionaly, for example when you take a premium ship to the battle and forget to move your comander to her from your similar researchable ship, or vice versa.

Wouldn't it be always better to recruit a 0-skill commander for free even for that single battle and then dismiss him to get 25% of that battle XP back as elite XP?

Not speaking about losing additional 5% elite XP lost from not having any commander in battle.

[Benser33]

1 hour ago, Yamashiro42 said:

What is the benefit of taking a ship without a commander to the battle in 0.10.0?

You can no longer assign a commander to a non-premium ship without being forced to retrain it. So your only options are recruit a new commander or go without one, which may be preferable if you're just playing a 3 minute coop game for a snowflake, etc.

[Silver_Firebote]

On 1/14/2021 at 9:50 PM, Exoist said:

I am surprised by the price for a new 10p captain ... 1500 dubs is just a lot 

25 for 3, it should been 100 for 10 or something

[300ConfirmedKills]

Am 15.1.2021 um 11:00, Crysantos sagte:

We do our best to test where we can - see our approach to submarine testing. But different changes require different approaches - this is also a lesson we've learned in terms of how the playerbase will test / use testing on a non-live server environment.

Cop out. Pure and simple.

[MrConway]

On 1/16/2021 at 3:12 AM, John435i said:

Dear WarGaming/CM's,

As a long time loyal client and big spender on this game, I would like to express my disappointment in WarGaming as a business, in relation to the latest game developments with the Commander rework.
By writing this open letter to WG, probably the longest post on this forum, I hope my feelings will reach some people in the management. Although I doubt it will, this is bothering me so much, I have to get this off my chest.
 

It hurts me to see the way things are going lately with WoWs, a game I like and love for over 5 years. I am what most of you would consider a whale, so an interesting client group for any games developer. At the same time most free players disrespect my kind, although we make it possible for them that these free to play games exist and remain free to play. I am not proud to admit what I am going to do here, but I feel I have to for the sake of this game.
 

Whales are usually players that want to be competitive and/or want to reach the highest levels of the game (like getting all the ships), but are lacking the time to achieve this by normal game play.  That lack of time is usually the result of hard business work, which in some cases, makes it possible for them to have enough money to "buy" back the progress they could not make in the game due to lack off game time. That way the whale can still achieve the maximum in the game without having to spend too much time. This is a generally excepted business model for many games.

As long as a whale knows what to get for his money, this is a normal business transaction. "Is the progress or content I buy, worth that price for me?" If yes, buy it if you have the money.
This way, I’ve spent over 11k euro's on the game since September 2015 (yes, I kept track on my spending’s). Most players would call this insane and maybe it is. For me it was a way to enjoy my beloved game to the max, which was worth it to me to spend that amount (and again, I feel fortunate to be able to do this and so should WG).
I was a happy customer.

That big amount of money I've spend on buying all the premium ships, but most of it I've spend on converting Ship XP into Free XP that I used to obtain special ships, tech tree ships or spec my Commanders faster. I always play premium time and my ships are always packed with economic flags.
This way I managed to get all T10 Tech Tree ships and spec about 40 commanders up to 19 points. This process still took me 5 years of almost daily gameplay, despite of all the money I spend.
However this was worth it to me, because I knew what I was into and what I was getting in return: to be able to play and enjoy the game as much and as competitive as I could. This gave me satisfaction and I was still a happy customer.

Now I read about the new Commander rework WG is going to introduce soon.
This will throw me back so much in the game, it totally horrifies me. Yes, I am worried about the negative effects some of the new perks will have on the gameplay too, but what worries me the most is the setback I get in strength. I do not like having to fight somebody with the same ship, equal skills but a better commander. That will make me lose and I do not like that.

If I want to remain competitive at the same level in the game, so I need to get my 40 elite captains (one for each T10 Tech Tree ships and some extra for special ships like Smolensk, Colbert or Atlanta) back on the same strength they are now a.s.a.p.. This will require 21 points in most cases, which is 1.2 million commander XP per commander. As I am not in the fortunate position to have tons of credits, free XP or elite commander XP on my account (I am a whale), I have to grind myself back to where I came from, or like most whales do, take my credit card again and spend money.

Normally that would not bother me, but this time it buggers me more than you can imagine. Now I’m not paying for something extra or new, but I have to spend a fortune, just to get back where I am now. Now I am no longer a happy customer. 

In order to regain my 40 elite captains I need  48 million Commander XP by using Free XP. I do not have that so if I want to buy it, it will cost me the staggering amount of € 6.220, only to keep what I have now already!  Think about that for a moment....
This is probably too much money for most whales, at least for me it is. No longer being able to keep up with the game by using money, whales will likely lose interest in it. This results in no longer wanting to spend any money on it because it has reached a level they can no longer afford. Hence, you have effectively killed your whale…

As an owner of a degree in Marketing I can't understand that a company is willing to (excuse my language) piss off their most loyal and best spending clients so hard, that many of them probably stop spending a dime on your products ever again. Even if you think you can squeeze more money out of the rest of the player base, than these loyal whale customers are going to spend in the future on your game, you forget something very important:
The players willing to spend so much money on the game, usually do that because they like it so much. They are your loyal ambassadors, promoting the game to whomever they can and in doing so, they attract many new players.
This is something you can measure in what Marketeers call “Net Promotor Score” (NPS). Will your clients positively “Promote” your product to others in their environment? Most large listed companies like the one I work for, are very keen on keeping this NPS as positive as they can, because they understand the value of it.

What do you think WG, that actions like this Commander rework (and the CV rework, and the Santa Crates, and the Puerto Rico disaster, etc., etc.) would do with the satisfaction of your biggest clients and ambassadors for your product?
Look what your long time best known ambassadors of your game are thinking of it now? Influencers like Flambass, Jingles, Flamu, iChase, are getting frustrated too because they see the game slowly go to ruin and your company seems not willing to listen to their expert opinions. They even quit for some time or start to focus on other games. The main reason they are still involved is that your game was so good, they still play it, but for how long? These guys and others like me, will ruin your NPS which will be disastrous for your company in the long term. Those CC’s are the people that made me and many others enthusiastic for this game. This made me and probably some others too, spend huge on your product.
If people are listening to these influencers now, what do you think the effect will be on new players that are considering to spend money on your product?

Please take this free advice and do something with it because I care. It is never too late to change.
 

Yours truly, a worried and very unhappy whale.

 

Firstly, thanks for the detailed post. While the difference in power between 19 and 21 skill-point commanders is not going to be large, I can understand your frustration at losing that peak performance versus other players. I'll make sure to pass it on.

 

On 1/16/2021 at 4:36 PM, StahlcriTTer said:

Any information about the special commanders ? Which abilities will they have ? Any change in price ?

 

Any perks will remain the same, whereas the improved skills may change slightly for those where there is no analogue in the new skill system.

[Spartan_93]

41 minutes ago, MrConway said:

 

Any perks will remain the same, whereas the improved skills may change slightly for those where there is no analogue in the new skill system.

 

@MrConway

How will you assure, that the changes will be only slightly, if they change from absolut values to relativ values?

 

For example, the Gremyachschi have a turret traverse of 5°/sec and with Expert Marksman it gains additional 2,5°/sec ( = +50%) or with Znamenskys/Ovechkins Master Marksman it gains additional 3°/sec ( = +60%).
 

If you change it now to a relativ bonus of 20% or even 25%, it would not be a slightly change!

[MrWastee]

lazy and rotten develpoment i call this! way of least engagement, no passion at all! just as rb, this just feels like opening the coverage of a toilet and let all the good intentions and aspects of it get flushed away... only to horn the playerbase...

 

 

i mean, there's exactly woat explanation for the increase in costs for the last 2 skillpts?!

.... no words of trying to sell esentially the same frame with "adjusted" (--> skillwise rather worsened....) content, which bascially stays the same, for such increased costs?!

 

one could've said, "yeah, too much currency around". but nope, it's indeed nther time going down the lane of "alternative facts" rofl.....

 

THUMBDOWN!

[Prophecy82]

15 hours ago, XalYWero said:

Also if a build cost the maximum amount of points before, wouldn't it be buffed if it didn't cost the maximum amount of points now?

 

Except you get less out of it for the hefty price of 1.2mio CXP. Just look at Bft.

So in case of gunboats my average DMG will be lower after the rework, yet I lost 1.2mio CXP. Where is the relation to that? Especially on the class that has the by far lowest avg. dmg. of them all.

 

Also, in case of DDs, who cares if AR and PT are overpowerd, when your average DD struggles to get past the 5 Minute mark alive? 

[S_h_i_v_a]

Downloaded the patch, skills are still the old. Did i miss smething?

[wot_2016_gunner]

Proprio ora, S_h_i_v_a ha scritto:

Downloaded the patch, skills are still the old. Did i miss smething?

READ BETTER the patch notes

Spoiler

Today is only the client update; the server update is on Thursday as always

 

[S_h_i_v_a]

13 minuti fa, wot_2016_gunner ha scritto:

READ BETTER the patch notes

  Rivela contenuti nascosti

Today is only the client update; the server update is on Thursday as always

 

 

14 minuti fa, wot_2016_gunner ha scritto:

READ BETTER the patch notes

  Nascondi contenuti

Today is only the client update; the server update is on Thursday as always

 

 

was on a different page, sorry.

https://worldofwarships.eu/en/news/general-news/commander-skills-update/

Free skill reset is available until: Thu. 18 Feb. 06:00 CET (UTC+1) / your local time: Thu. 18 Feb. 06:00

 

Discounts and combat missions are available

From: Thu. 21 Jan. 06:00 CET (UTC+1) / your local time: Thu. 21 Jan. 06:00
Until: Thu. 18 Feb. 06:00 CET (UTC+1) / your local time: Thu. 18 Feb. 06:00

 

 

 

 

[ElAtaque]

4 hours ago, MrConway said:

 

[...] While the difference in power between 19 and 21 skill-point commanders is not going to be large, I can understand your frustration at losing that peak performance versus other players. [...]

 

Dear @MrConway, forgive me for hijacking a reply of yours but:

 

If the difference is not going to be large anyways, why are devs pushing this whole 21-points-system in the first place? You condemn the majority of your competitive player base to an endless and unwanted grind to achive something they already had in the past!

 

Moreover, you advertise a change of the way to play certain ships due to different ways of skilling a captain, albeit it is the ship class (and game mechanics) which in most cases dictates your style of playing. I cannot see any improvement in this update, but instead a blatant try to milk your (still) loyal playerbase... Therefore, I am pretty sure that you can extend the remarks of @John435i not only to whales but to a much broader range of players.

 

As you can see, I have been around here since Closed Beta, and I might say that the patches right before the CV rework were the best times I had in this game. But after the disastrous CV stuff and several PR disasters one cannot fail to notice a distinct alienation between devs and playerbase. Personally, I am starting to loose both my patience but also my hopes for this game.

[Cammo1962]

4 hours ago, MrConway said:

 

Firstly, thanks for the detailed post. While the difference in power between 19 and 21 skill-point commanders is not going to be large, I can understand your frustration at losing that peak performance versus other players. I'll make sure to pass it on.

 

 

Any perks will remain the same, whereas the improved skills may change slightly for those where there is no analogue in the new skill system.

Hi @MrConway how can you still deffend that you wont change the gun range of the Flint when you do it for the Atlanta and dont come and say that the Flint is played different than Atlanta because you do not play it different you still need to get close to a cap to deffend it in the Flint at that means that you will be well inside russian radarships radar range. And pls dont come and say that you will be looking at it when 0.10.0 is rolled out because the Flint is a dead ship with the new range on her guns.

[Psticide]

On 1/17/2021 at 12:00 PM, Mirdwen said:

 

 

Hello, fellow english speaking people.
I don't often come here (I'm french) but ... by curiosity, I've made the exercise to convert my old DD build into the new ones, just to see how impacted my captain will be (because, as already stated, it costs a lot of commander XP to get from 19 pts to 21 pts) ...
 

Well, I would like to know what do you think about the maths,  and if it's still fine for DD, or if no specific ships are targeted ?

 

Today, build Shima with 19 pts captain :  1 pts : PM* / 2 pts : AR + LS / 3 pts : SE + TAE / 4 pts : RPF + CE

Tomorrow, same build : 1 pts : Maintenance Specialist (PM) / 2 pts : Propulsive (LS) / 3 pts : TAE + AR  + Enduring (SE) / 4 pts : RPF + CE = 20 pts ... Oups.

 

Today, build Smaland with 19 pts captain : 1 pts : PT + PM* / 2 pts : AR + LS / 3 pts : SE + BFT + SI / 4 pts : CE

Tomorrow, same build : 1 pts : PM / 2 pts : Argus Eyed (PT) + Propulsive (LS) / 3 pts : AR + Enduring (SE) + Provident (SI) / 4 pts : Fearless (kind of BFT) + CE  = 22 pts ... Oupsy daisy

 

Today, build Z-52 with 19 pts captain : 1 pts : PT + PM* / 2 pts : AR + LS / 3 pts : SE + TAE + SI / 4 pts : CE

Tomorrow, same build : 1 pts : PM / 2 pts : Argus Eyed (PT) + Propulsive (LS) / 3 pts : AR + Enduring (SE) + Provident (SI) + TAE / CE  = 21 pts ... Ooooooooooooooooh thank you weegee to allow me to keep the same build I have now for a mere 1.2M captain xp more !

 

Today, build Harugumo with 19 pts captain :  1 pts : PM* / 2 pts : AR + LS / 3 pts : SE + BFT / 4 pts : IFHE + CE

Tomorrow, same build : 1 pts : Maintenance Specialist (PM) / 2 pts : Propulsive (LS) / 3 pts : AR  + Enduring (SE) + Threshing (IFHE) / 4 pts : Fearless (BFT) + CE = 20 pts ... Nope, still not there.

 

Today, build Khabarovsk with 19 pts captain :  1 pts : PT + PM* / 2 pts : AR + LS / 3 pts : SE + BFT + DE / 4 pts : AFT

Tomorrow, same build : 1 pts : Maintenance Specialist (PM) / 2 pts : Propulsive (LS) + AE (PT) + Pyrotechnist (DE) / 3 pts : AR  + Enduring (SE)  / 4 pts : Fearless (BFT) + Main Battery Expert (AFT) = 21 pts ... It's still a no.

 

Well, at this stage, I've no words anymore : ok, you do whatever you want with your game. But please, stop trying to making us think it's an improvement.

This is final nail in the coffin for dd players ... after all this premium and steel CV carriers played by people who dont even know how to press the T button to put air cover in their entire cv careers (and then the other team has a platoon and unicum cv that hunts our team dds like his life depends on it and ours goes torpedoing bbs in the back ... ) , this company has lost the plot and is purely driven by greed now ...  greedgaming >gameplaygaming RIP my dds, i will only play sniper bbs and sniper cruisers now. Enjoy getting burned and radard, thats the future of this game. 

 

I dont want to hear any more players in this game asking dds to go cap or spot for them .. , dd players are on strike , i already switched to 20km torps and my 16km dds since cv trashwork, but now this, this makes me retire all my dds. 

[Drs_Adelaar]

Is there a detailed list of the commander skills available with what their perks do? Have tried to find it but was unable to.

[Tall_Toot]

Sooooo, what are the chances of swapping some of the squillions of pointless XP built up on ships for Commander XP for free?????

 

I think I could pay for Ferrari's for all the Paris staff if I had to use dubloonies  for it....

 

 

 

I know, it made me larf too

[dan_matt]

@MrConway from what I see it will just make BBs stay far back and snipe, I will have to completely change how I play my favourite ships, they say it is to stop on skill set been used on ships constantly but this punishes those who have strange set ups, for example, I play most on my Nelson and KGV and I bet I am nearly unique as I play them both with Rdf, which is great for hunting DDs as no one expects it .... now I will end up following the crowd and become a HE sniper sitting from the back.... this takes the fun out of the game, why take away abilities, why not just add more so that there is more choice and more variety. Purely more money grabbing that I have become used to with WG

[Badameco]

Calm down fellas, it will go as smoothly as the CV rework..., oh, wait... 

[MrConway]

1 hour ago, ElAtaque said:

 

Dear @MrConway, forgive me for hijacking a reply of yours but:

 

If the difference is not going to be large anyways, why are devs pushing this whole 21-points-system in the first place? You condemn the majority of your competitive player base to an endless and unwanted grind to achive something they already had in the past!

 

Moreover, you advertise a change of the way to play certain ships due to different ways of skilling a captain, albeit it is the ship class (and game mechanics) which in most cases dictates your style of playing. I cannot see any improvement in this update, but instead a blatant try to milk your (still) loyal playerbase... Therefore, I am pretty sure that you can extend the remarks of @John435i not only to whales but to a much broader range of players.

 

As you can see, I have been around here since Closed Beta, and I might say that the patches right before the CV rework were the best times I had in this game. But after the disastrous CV stuff and several PR disasters one cannot fail to notice a distinct alienation between devs and playerbase. Personally, I am starting to loose both my patience but also my hopes for this game.

 

We aren't just adding 2 additional skillpoints, the entire system is being revamped. Adding the extra points allows choosing more skills, but also provides another long-term goal for many of the most active players that have a majority of 19 point commanders trained.

 

And while the amount of points needed to get to 21 is large, there are so many more options with flags and camouflages to boost the commander XP income, than when the whole system was originally introduced.

 

1 hour ago, Cammo1962 said:

Hi @MrConway how can you still deffend that you wont change the gun range of the Flint when you do it for the Atlanta and dont come and say that the Flint is played different than Atlanta because you do not play it different you still need to get close to a cap to deffend it in the Flint at that means that you will be well inside russian radarships radar range. And pls dont come and say that you will be looking at it when 0.10.0 is rolled out because the Flint is a dead ship with the new range on her guns.

 

Just because we did not make the change for Flint yet, doesn't mean we will refuse to do it in future. Atlanta has a little different status as a premium ship and also does not have the benefit of the smoke screen, so we thought she needed it a lot more than Flint.

 

[Isoruku_Yamamoto]

43 minutes ago, MrConway said:

 

We aren't just adding 2 additional skillpoints, the entire system is being revamped. Adding the extra points allows choosing more skills, but also provides another long-term goal for many of the most active players that have a majority of 19 point commanders trained.

 

And while the amount of points needed to get to 21 is large, there are so many more options with flags and camouflages to boost the commander XP income, than when the whole system was originally introduced.

 

 

Just because we did not make the change for Flint yet, doesn't mean we will refuse to do it in future. Atlanta has a little different status as a premium ship and also does not have the benefit of the smoke screen, so we thought she needed it a lot more than Flint.

 

I sincerely hope you'll keep Flint in mind, especially since some of us (me) bought it with actual steel.

 

Also, the new system sounds nice, but youve cut out some of the most important aspects that you gave at the start:

1. Commanders CANNOT be assigned to 4 ship classes, unlike initially intended.

2. Not all builds/ functionalities will be oreserved with a 19pt commander

3. The system will still have very clear go-to options, mainly cause you removed all interclass options such as super light cruiser AFT, cruiser secondary skills, Heavy cruiser tanking builds etc

[SkollUlfr]

3 hours ago, ElAtaque said:

 

If the difference is not going to be large anyways, why are devs pushing this whole 21-points-system in the first place? You condemn the majority of your competitive player base to an endless and unwanted grind to achive something they already had in the past!

 

the easy way to fix that is to make all competitive matches/modes ignore all captain skills.

 

[kingbright]

3 hours ago, MrConway said:

Just because we did not make the change for Flint yet, doesn't mean we will refuse to do it in future. Atlanta has a little different status as a premium ship and also does not have the benefit of the smoke screen, so we thought she needed it a lot more than Flint.

Exactly, Flint has a different status than Atlanta.

For the Flint we payed with steel, some with coal. We all put way more effort and time in getting the Flint than the Atlanta, which we could buy for money.

That's what pisses off everyone, the total disrespect of our time and effort spent.

[Zemeritt]

5 hours ago, MrConway said:

And while the amount of points needed to get to 21 is large, there are so many more options with flags and camouflages to boost the commander XP income, than when the whole system was originally introduced.

 

This inflation of ways to get the EXP is solely your fault and now the playerbase has to suffer due to that.