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Pappus

WG if you cannot seperate balance from fun to play, then you should shuffle employees

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I am not saying that it is a piss easy task, but it is more than doable. Of course you aren't the only one suffering from this in the industry, if anything the lack of gameplay creativity is driving million dollar projects into the ground easily.

 

Take crucible for example. I could list dozens of dead or dying games with many of them crushing your yearly budgets easily. It is painfull< obvious why the industry is trending hard towards remastering and staying the course, but you will only dig your grave. Eventually a competitor will come and improve where you fail and you fail when it comes to separating fun and balance. Those two things are linked to some degree, but not fully.

 

If we are talking about ingame purchases that are 5-10€ I really don't mind if a nerf destroys a hero/ship after, because you get your money worth out of it quite quickly. You don't have such prices though. Even  years old massa still cost me 30€, now it will be subjected to secondary nerfs (like every ship in the game) and maybe it will end up being lackluster. I don't know. I bought it for the great secondaries though.

 

I got myself the Siegfried for the secondaries. Guess how that will go soon. No refunding those research points either right.

 

That MvR bomb dispersion nerf though is just so unenjoyable. I don't even wanna pull the AP bombers anymore, because it feels like gambling for damage. I didn't get my moneys worth out of the event you created for that yet. At least offer proper refunding if you change an entire line - which you do if you change the T10 ship too much.

 

What I opened my wallet for was a CV line that would be enjoyable to reset here and there, but mainly stay on T10 so I got myself all the skins, I made sure I had the entire line ready to go from containers. Since frankly if you give me something that I enjoy I should support you back since that stuff costs you money to create too. With premium ships you are careful, but with event-stuff you aren't or other stuff like research ships. Yes I could have gotten the line for 0€, but I wanted to say thank you to WG for making a line that I would enjoy for a while.

 

If given the same choice I wouldn't pay a single dime on the line. I don't care if the MvR is too strong or too weak, but with 1/3 of the options to be such unenjoyable RNG I might aswell play the british CV line - oh wait I guess that is the reason basically nobody plays that abomination of a line either right? Making a good drop to see the bombs disperse fully around a BB and then hitting two citas on the next drop might be balanced, but it sure drives frustration levels up. Especially when the 2 cita drop you are owed doesn't come in the match anymore.

 

See what the MvR is now:

 

AP rockets are great if the opponent is dumb or cannot move (smart opponent putting itself right next to island when enemy CV is MvR ain't happening that fast)

Torpedos were always kinda meh, whatever in terms of fun. HItting those 9k, rarely flooding torpedos doesn't make anyone go pog.

Seeing the big double cita hits was the most consistent fun you could get out of the ship.

 

Remember that this isn't a request for a ship to be OP to stay that way. I don't need the ship to be grossly overperforming (although we have a plethora of ships that just do that - cv or no). At the very least you should rock the refunds harder or adopt a low cost pricing strategy.

 

In the meantime I wait for your competitor ( and it won't be too long anymore I think )

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14 minutes ago, Pappus said:

At the very least you should rock the refunds harder or adopt a low cost pricing strategy.

 

In the meantime I wait for your competitor ( and it won't be too long anymore I think )

IMG_20210112_005904.jpg.54058eea18ff933cf52d9006a5142005.jpg

 

I'm glad the Mvr is nerfed, because it was just brokenly OP in the hands of cv unicums in cbs. Sure, FDR is f*cked up as well, but due to steel less available. 

 

Ps. Yueyang, khaba, henri, hindenburg. All ships I paid perma camos for. All ships that got nerf hammered. Get used to it kiddo. Just enjoy it while it lasts. 

 

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2 hours ago, GarrusBrutus said:

IMG_20210112_005904.jpg.54058eea18ff933cf52d9006a5142005.jpg

 

I'm glad the Mvr is nerfed, because it was just brokenly OP in the hands of cv unicums in cbs. Sure, FDR is f*cked up as well, but due to steel less available. 

 

Ps. Yueyang, khaba, henri, hindenburg. All ships I paid perma camos for. All ships that got nerf hammered. Get used to it kiddo. Just enjoy it while it lasts. 

 

But I don't care about the ship being tuned down. I care how this is done. The ships can be put in line without them being unfun to play.

 

If what they cared about was toning down spike damage then you could simply have gone with 12 bombs instead of 3 and cut the damage of each bomb to 1/4. Getting a drop pattern that allows for 12 citas will be much more unlikely than a triple was before. Drop consistency would go up and dodge consistency too.

 

Staying with 3 bombs simply means that they rather go with schadenfreude as a balancing factor.

 

 

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Vor 20 Minuten, Pappus sagte:

But I don't care about the ship being tuned down. I care how this is done. The ships can be put in line without them being unfun to play.

 

If what they cared about was toning down spike damage then you could simply have gone with 12 bombs instead of 3 and cut the damage of each bomb to 1/4. Getting a drop pattern that allows for 12 citas will be much more unlikely than a triple was before. Drop consistency would go up and dodge consistency too.

 

Staying with 3 bombs simply means that they rather go with schadenfreude as a balancing factor.

 

 

Played a game today in Richthofen was my last one perhaps. Dropped 40 bombs hit 17 and scored 5 citas. That's just atrocious given the fact I didn't even try to hit a Cruiser Cuz I already know they can't be hit. Only attacked bbs for that reason. MvR is now pathetic compared to the other T10 cvs Cuz it's gimmick is useless now. Go down from 27k alpha to 24k or so would have been much better. 

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1 hour ago, Aixin said:

Go down from 27k alpha to 24k or so would have been much better. 

Make it 21K alpha and you have a deal. Because 3X21K = 63K. That way my North Carolina has 3K HP left after a single squadron of planes said hello 3 times.

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9 hours ago, Pappus said:

I am not saying that it is a piss easy task, but it is more than doable. Of course you aren't the only one suffering from this in the industry, if anything the lack of gameplay creativity is driving million dollar projects into the ground easily.

 

Take crucible for example. I could list dozens of dead or dying games with many of them crushing your yearly budgets easily. It is painfull< obvious why the industry is trending hard towards remastering and staying the course, but you will only dig your grave. Eventually a competitor will come and improve where you fail and you fail when it comes to separating fun and balance. Those two things are linked to some degree, but not fully.

 

If we are talking about ingame purchases that are 5-10€ I really don't mind if a nerf destroys a hero/ship after, because you get your money worth out of it quite quickly. You don't have such prices though. Even  years old massa still cost me 30€, now it will be subjected to secondary nerfs (like every ship in the game) and maybe it will end up being lackluster. I don't know. I bought it for the great secondaries though.

 

I got myself the Siegfried for the secondaries. Guess how that will go soon. No refunding those research points either right.

 

That MvR bomb dispersion nerf though is just so unenjoyable. I don't even wanna pull the AP bombers anymore, because it feels like gambling for damage. I didn't get my moneys worth out of the event you created for that yet. At least offer proper refunding if you change an entire line - which you do if you change the T10 ship too much.

 

What I opened my wallet for was a CV line that would be enjoyable to reset here and there, but mainly stay on T10 so I got myself all the skins, I made sure I had the entire line ready to go from containers. Since frankly if you give me something that I enjoy I should support you back since that stuff costs you money to create too. With premium ships you are careful, but with event-stuff you aren't or other stuff like research ships. Yes I could have gotten the line for 0€, but I wanted to say thank you to WG for making a line that I would enjoy for a while.

 

If given the same choice I wouldn't pay a single dime on the line. I don't care if the MvR is too strong or too weak, but with 1/3 of the options to be such unenjoyable RNG I might aswell play the british CV line - oh wait I guess that is the reason basically nobody plays that abomination of a line either right? Making a good drop to see the bombs disperse fully around a BB and then hitting two citas on the next drop might be balanced, but it sure drives frustration levels up. Especially when the 2 cita drop you are owed doesn't come in the match anymore.

 

AP rockets are great if the opponent is dumb or cannot move (smart opponent putting itself right next to island when enemy CV is MvR ain't happening that fast)

Torpedos were always kinda meh, whatever in terms of fun. HItting those 9k, rarely flooding torpedos doesn't make anyone go pog.

Seeing the big double cita hits was the most consistent fun you could get out of the ship.

 

Remember that this isn't a request for a ship to be OP to stay that way. I don't need the ship to be grossly overperforming (although we have a plethora of ships that just do that - cv or no). At the very least you should rock the refunds harder or adopt a low cost pricing strategy.

so it seems you only want to play op ships and want a refund for a silver line you paid to research quickly, good luck with that.

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7 hours ago, Pappus said:

But I don't care about the ship being tuned down. I care how this is done. The ships can be put in line without them being unfun to play.

It's unfun to play because you can no longer get easy damage. 

I have a hard time feeling sorry for you simply because your toy got nerfed and now you have to Q_Q about it.

It was simply mind boggling easy to punish ships with the AP bombs. Watched several cv mains play and rack up ludicrous amounts of AP bomb damage once targets got isolated later in the match. It was gamebreaking. 50k dmg in two attack runs wasn't uncommon. Cvs shouldn't be able to do that. So I really don't care your "fun" got nerfed so surface ships can have their fun back. 

10 hours ago, Pappus said:

With premium ships you are careful, but with event-stuff you aren't or other stuff like research ships. Yes I could have gotten the line for 0€, but I wanted to say thank you to WG for making a line that I would enjoy for a while.

This is just a risky move and you got "punished" for it. You gambled on the line staying as it is and you lost. 

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3 hours ago, Europizza said:

My Atlanta would like a word with you :Smile_sceptic:

Would that be the Atlanta WG made the highlight of the 2020 Summer Sale? WG's effort to squeeze the last drops of sales from her before they told us what they already knew was coming, and the impact it would have on her.

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Vor 7 Stunden, NikolayKuznetsov sagte:

Make it 21K alpha and you have a deal. Because 3X21K = 63K. That way my North Carolina has 3K HP left after a single squadron of planes said hello 3 times.

I don't really care tbh. As long as the ship stays playable. 

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13 hours ago, Pappus said:

Remember that this isn't a request for a ship to be OP to stay that way. I don't need the ship to be grossly overperforming

This wall of text to demand my grossly overperforming ship remains grossly overperforming - is in fact not a request for my grossly overperforming ship to remain grossly overperforming. People can look up the silly margins by which pre-nerf MvR was outperforming other CVs. It was the most grossly overperforming ship since launch/pre-nerf conqueror.

If premium ships are launched in a broken state, I'm on board with the argument that these shouldn't be subject to nerfs, people paid for them. You didn't pay to get MvR, you paid to get it 24 hours early, that's on you.

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4 minutes ago, Aixin said:

I don't really care tbh. As long as the ship stays playable. 

A good CV player in an MvR was silly, those bombs without RNG consistently took down T10s to 1/3rd HP and T8s from full HP to dead with 1 squadron. I don't know why wargaming went with RNG instead of a significant damage reduction to nerf it, I can see how that might be frustrating, but anyone arguing MvR was balanced when it launched is either lying or stupid, probably both.

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10 hours ago, Pappus said:

But I don't care about the ship being tuned down. I care how this is done. The ships can be put in line without them being unfun to play.

 

So CVs should be completely removed since CVs make the entire game unfun for surface ships, especially for ships such as Atlanta which were previously marketed as AA ships and now have their AA power completely obliterated all in the name of the CV rework?

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16 minutes ago, NikolayKuznetsov said:

I don't know why wargaming went with RNG instead of a significant damage reduction to nerf it,

 

WG likes to have as much RNG as possible.

Because in their mind, it feels very nice to get that perfect drop/spread/dispersion once in a while, where you devstrike something. Also, RNG is reducing skillgap. Ask that P.Bag today in ranked, if he felt bothered showing nonstop broadside to me while receiving only minor damage. Imagine, if my BB shells hit like lasers but deal much less damage than they would now. I would have deleted him in 2 salvos. That way, he got to enjoy being a potato, and i got frustrated because he is allowed to play that way. Next game, some other potato will devstrike him for showing broadside - and that potato will get a warm fuzzy feeling. The other one, not so much, because he doesnt get permanently punished for it. If he would, he might quit the game.

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15 minutes ago, NikolayKuznetsov said:

A good CV player in an MvR was silly, those bombs without RNG consistently took down T10s to 1/3rd HP and T8s from full HP to dead with 1 squadron. I don't know why wargaming went with RNG instead of a significant damage reduction to nerf it, I can see how that might be frustrating, but anyone arguing MvR was balanced when it launched is either lying or stupid, probably both.

True there were many intelligent ways to nerf the MvR but to make it completly RNG based is just dumb. 

They could just double the attack size for the same max dmg. For example 5 planes (1 bomb per plane) for the ~26k dmg but with a lower squad size of 10 you would just get 1 attack run. 

With the RNG from 5 Bombs maybe 3 will hit (60% hirate) which would make with 3 citas 26k/5*3= 15,6k dmg 

Of course you can get unlucky with 5 cits and still deal 26k dmg but I dont believe it would happen often 

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15 hours ago, Pappus said:

The ships can be put in line without them being unfun to play.

Very modus operandi of WG is to nerf fun first, before adressing "OP" parts of the vehicle. Be it tank, ship, plane or potato.

 

After all, if X is not fun to play, then amount of players goes down, while carrot "when stars align, X is still overperforming so I'll free exp it" is still present.

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Vor 6 Stunden, NikolayKuznetsov sagte:

A good CV player in an MvR was silly, those bombs without RNG consistently took down T10s to 1/3rd HP and T8s from full HP to dead with 1 squadron. I don't know why wargaming went with RNG instead of a significant damage reduction to nerf it, I can see how that might be frustrating, but anyone arguing MvR was balanced when it launched is either lying or stupid, probably both.

Did I ever say it shouldn't be nerfed? :)

Anyway rng is always dump. That's what I wanted to say :) 

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20 hours ago, Pappus said:

WG if you cannot seperate balance from fun to play

Says the guy complaining about one of most op ships from by far most broken class in game getting slightly nerfed.

20 hours ago, Pappus said:

Seeing the big double cita hits was the most consistent fun you could get out of the ship.

Yep, I'm sure they also had same amount of fun you did by just dodging (c)

20 hours ago, Pappus said:

In the meantime I wait for your competitor ( and it won't be too long anymore I think )

Now that one will make WG overthink their decisions and what have they done with the glorious MvR and the fun you had..Still, best of luck in whatever next game you find!

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13 hours ago, GarrusBrutus said:

It's unfun to play because you can no longer get easy damage. 

I have a hard time feeling sorry for you simply because your toy got nerfed and now you have to Q_Q about it.

It was simply mind boggling easy to punish ships with the AP bombs. Watched several cv mains play and rack up ludicrous amounts of AP bomb damage once targets got isolated later in the match. It was gamebreaking. 50k dmg in two attack runs wasn't uncommon. Cvs shouldn't be able to do that. So I really don't care your "fun" got nerfed so surface ships can have their fun back. 

This is just a risky move and you got "punished" for it. You gambled on the line staying as it is and you lost. 

 

Man 50k on an isolated feeble target isn't really that much for the main CVs. Midway and Haku can both do it no sweat. Even if it was you can achieve the numbers you need to hit numbers wise without taking the fun out.

 

 

10 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

 

So CVs should be completely removed since CVs make the entire game unfun for surface ships, especially for ships such as Atlanta which were previously marketed as AA ships and now have their AA power completely obliterated all in the name of the CV rework?

The former point is not as uniform as the few rants in this forum make you believe. What happens with the atlana I cannot really judge, but if a ship was X and then massively changed, then I support at least a refund upon nerf.

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On 1/12/2021 at 2:02 AM, GarrusBrutus said:

Ps. Yueyang, khaba, henri, hindenburg. All ships I paid perma camos for. All ships that got nerf hammered. Get used to it kiddo. Just enjoy it while it lasts. 

 

Garrus buys perma camo for YY = YY gets nerfed.

Garrus buys perma camo for Khaba = Khaba gets nerfed.

Garrus buys perma camo for Henri = Henri gets nerfed.

Garrus buys perma camo for Hindenburg = Hindenburg gets nerfed.

 

am I the only one seeing a pattern here???

 

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6 hours ago, ForlornSailor said:

 

Garrus buys perma camo for YY = YY gets nerfed.

Garrus buys perma camo for Khaba = Khaba gets nerfed.

Garrus buys perma camo for Henri = Henri gets nerfed.

Garrus buys perma camo for Hindenburg = Hindenburg gets nerfed.

 

am I the only one seeing a pattern here???

 

the order should be, Khaba - hindi - YY - Henri.. I presume... 

anyway, I offer that we pay his perma camo costs for the ships we wanted to be nerfed.. 

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1 minute ago, Excavatus said:

anyway, I offer that we pay his perma camo costs for the ships we wanted to be nerfed.. 

 

So lets start a GoFundMe, that @GarrusBrutus will buy the perma camo for MVR?

I think we will reach 10.000% of the target goal within 2 minutes.

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Define irony: a cv player complaining about being forced to play with unfun game mechanics and lack of player agency.

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1 hour ago, ForlornSailor said:

 

So lets start a GoFundMe, that @GarrusBrutus will buy the perma camo for MVR?

I think we will reach 10.000% of the target goal within 2 minutes.

My house also needs nerfing, so do you guys mind paying for that perma camo as well? :Smile_teethhappy:

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1 hour ago, arttuperkunas said:

Define irony: a cv player complaining about being forced to play with unfun game mechanics and lack of player agency.

I am really tired of such caveman arguments. There is plenty you can do against CVs, you cannot expect to remain fully unstruck or unspotted though.

Things are different the same way showing even a little bit of broadside is different when a Slava is around, or how pushing in is different if a smolensk is around, or DDs and so on. Sometimes you are in a shitty spot and then all hell breaks lose when the enemy CV spotted that. Tough luck, but when you screw up in another ship mostly that is an instant back to port that won't come with parades either.

 

You can see dev strikes going out in so many matches. I am sure a lot of fun is being had there, but it is deemed okay, cause it is your own fault. Well if a CV really pisses on you effectively, then it is your own fault too. Can an enemy CV be annoying and somehow bite into you, yes it can happen but that isn't the type of CV that will make you lose matches. That is just the type of match that relegate you to aircraft duty.

 

The reason you see such a low % of players pick the CV is not because people just hate the class altogether, but because it bears a lot of responsibility. People don't like that it is the very same as looking for people that are ready to be the maintank in MMORPGs. It is too stressful for people to bear such responsibility. People are timid.

 

Now if we talk player agency, then the torps and ap rockets of the german CV line are completely up to the enemy to allow any reasonable damage from. The hit agency on those first strikes in the open is not on the CV side. Now granted you will have to turn the ship for that and that can mean something or not. It can be taken advantage of or not. The AP bombs were dodgeable to a nice degree before aswell since they had to be mostly dropped early and then it still takes a nice amount of time until they land. Enough for maneuvers to put the green over water, when it wasn't before. I have had numerous drops even before the changes disperse into that tiny green speck that appeared from a dodge/movement that wasn't even started when I dropped them. Especially against those poor poor cruisers that you would mostly triple cita, because they would not even dodge 1mm and sail straight.

 

This kind of stuff makes me feel like I entered the Zoo illegally without paying.

 

 

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