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SkollUlfr

been a while since i tried playing ijn dd

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and dear god to the pan euro dd's outclass them.

its a binary case of, if a eur dd is on a cap, be elsewhere.

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1 minute ago, SkollUlfr said:

and dear god to the pan euro dd's outclass them.

its a binary case of, if a eur dd is on a cap, be elsewhere.

Assuming we're talking about the IJN torp line, this has always been the case when faced with something with better dakka than you (the RN line, for example); the IJN torp boats are all about being sneaky, rather than heroic use of dakka.

 

If your IJN DD has a fatty in its sights, you'll probably do a lot better than the Ikea DD will in the same situation...

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11 minutes ago, Verblonde said:

the IJN torp boats are all about being sneaky,

yea... kinda the only part of these boats to mention.

thing is, they are for all practical purposes, out-sneakied by the ikea boats.

 

2 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

That is why IJN DD have smoke.

against eur dd and the speed and detection of their torps nobody with two brain cells to rub together would try sitting in smoke.

which means running, at which point you are slower then them due to turning, but still outrunning your own smoke.

which also means you are back to what i said in the op, if you are in an ijn dd(maybe excluding minekaze and kami r), and your opponent is in a eur dd, be somewhere else.

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38 minutes ago, SkollUlfr said:

and dear god to the pan euro dd's outclass them.

its a binary case of, if a eur dd is on a cap, be elsewhere.

Dunno what tier you are referring to here, but in general you outspot the EU DD. Even if he has better guns, he is the one who is running the most risk as he risks getting spotted by you before you get spotted in return. And generally you are a threat because if you do get spotted and he opens fire, you can smoke up while he most likely will be spotted by your entire team plus another 20 seconds after he stops shooting, while you are safe and can farm him or disengage. Just don't pick a pure 1v1 and you actually have the upper hand here.

 

The only exception here is the premium/fxp ship Småland, in which case, yes, run.

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Try playing the EU DDs yourself. You will quickly notice that they are quite bad at cap contesting in this game. I hated the line apart from Skåne, Ostergotland and Halland, and as for Halland I only liked the torps. She is still bad at cap contesting anything with either a smoke or better guns (which, incidentally, is every DD in the game).

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After some years and a few thousand battles, I've taken it upon myself to play and learn some DDs. A lot of them are god awful (as am I), but aside from Jervis (which i enjoyed, but isn't IJN), I've played two ships lately with (for me) great success and - more importantly - great fun!

 

Yugumo (TRB 100%)

Akizuki 

 

Both "grinds" went super fast and I had a lot of fun. Don't have enough silver for Shimakaze or Kitakaze yet, but I am looking forward to both (also looking forward to Lightning).

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4 minutes ago, SkollUlfr said:

against eur dd and the speed and detection of their torps nobody with two brain cells to rub together would try sitting in smoke.

Nobody said anything about sitting in smoke.

You get away (if it is dangerous) and reposition.

 

Remember, everytime an EU DD shoots, he remains spotted for quite some time and they are not that fast nimble to endure enemy fire for long.

When nobody shoots them, bad luck for you, but hardly a problem of the ship.

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I do personally prefer the EU DDs over the IJN torpedo boat line myself nowadays, simply because being able to land torps consistently is nice. However, ending up in a gunfight with something like a Halland while you're in a Shimakaze shouldn't be any real issue. Just make sure that you set the terms for the engagement, if you do have to go up against one. Firstly make sure that you have your butt turned towards him, as the IJN DDs are great at kiting and shooting with those two back turrets. You can then dodge incoming shells and torpedoes while keeping most of your firepower in the game. Although the reload is slow your alpha HE damage is great, so just make sure that your aiming is on point and all should be well. Alternatively, if you have teammates close by you can fire once or twice to get him to fire at you, then smoke up and he'll be spotted by your team since he fired his guns. At this point all that you have to do is watch to see if he's dumping your torps your way, which is usually pretty obvious. You don't even have to sit in the smoke and fire if you're frightened of being torped, just disengage while preferrably keeping the smoke between you and him so that you can keep firing without being spotted for a while.

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1 hour ago, SkollUlfr said:

and dear god to the pan euro dd's outclass them.

its a binary case of, if a eur dd is on a cap, be elsewhere.

Akizuki and Kitakaze maybe

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I personally am doing much better in IJN torp boats then in EU DDs. I am still having a lot of fun in them.

That is unless it's a CV game then better AA helps a lot vs weaker pilots and planes can delate concealment advantage that you have with IJN loliboat.

 

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I reset the IJN torp boat line a couple of months ago. I was really disappointed in playing those boats again. It feels as though their relative power has been badly nerfed.

I am no great fan of the EU/Swedish line either. I really miss defensive smoke to disengage. My favourite DD line is the UK boats. Good balance of qualities helps me to make the best out of most situations. Capable in contesting caps as well as in independent ops like flank defense or push.

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Vor 1 Stunde, Gorthuba sagte:

I do personally prefer the EU DDs over the IJN torpedo boat line myself nowadays, simply because being able to land torps consistently is nice.

I think kitakaze is the one DD that I get torp hits most consistently. Because guns are so good that enemy DDs just die or hide and I get free reign on the flank. Torps hit hard and even if it's only one, but it's flooding, coupled with setting fires they have more impact then EU torps. When I get flooding in EU DD I can't openly dakka to set permafires. 

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2 hours ago, SkollUlfr said:

and dear god to the pan euro dd's outclass them.

its a binary case of, if a eur dd is on a cap, be elsewhere.

Strange :cap_old: I don't have your problem playing against EU DDs with DDs from any other nations. And don't get me wrong I like the EU DDs as well just like all other nations destroyers ( they all have some strengths and weaknesses ).

 

It is all about the player behind them, nothing else . Try playing with EU DDs then, so you can start another topic how strong and impossible to play against are the DDs from all other nations.

 

EU DDs have great speed and fast torps, good DPM and AA, but they pay a high price for it.   No smoke , no hydro. short firing range and the damage done from their torpedoes comparing to all other DDs is laughable :cap_old:

Yesterday in ranked battle Halland ( full health ) charged my Shimakaze ( 2/3 health ) going for easy kill until met this wall of torpedoes and die a second later. 

maybe you should TRY AGAIN - Grandma finds the Internet - quickmeme

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48 minutes ago, Camperdown said:

I reset the IJN torp boat line a couple of months ago. I was really disappointed in playing those boats again. It feels as though their relative power has been badly nerfed.

I am no great fan of the EU/Swedish line either. I really miss defensive smoke to disengage. My favourite DD line is the UK boats. Good balance of qualities helps me to make the best out of most situations. Capable in contesting caps as well as in independent ops like flank defense or push.

While you don't necessarily need the smoke to disengage (tho it helps a lot), the EU DDs rely on jumping a weaker DD when he's overextended, without support, or where you have more support than him.
Since neither of those things are in your control, therein lies the weakness of that ship.
Sure you can sink that Shima on your own, but that Shima has to really mess up for you to get that opportunity, which is not always the case.

Fully agree on RN DDs.
Daring is my best performing DD by far (62 or 63% solo WR after 150+ games), and it just has so many tools to confidently pick a fight and win it.
Great line, which starts off with very good boats and the boats just keep getting better!

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9 minutes ago, Hirohito said:


Sure you can sink that Shima on your own, but that Shima has to really mess up for you to get that opportunity, which is not always the case.

It is not for sure :cap_cool: 

Shima is a great boat and if you have experience player behind it it is more likely the Shima to sunk you. And that Shima torpedoes hit so hard ..... very often I get a Devastating Strike against other DDs with just one torpedo hit.

But experienced DD player can pretty much sink any type and class of enemy destroyer. If they have better DPM than you, then you have a better concealment it is enough to balance on the edge and keep them spotted for your team without engaging or finish them when they have been farmed and in panic. 

This is a team game and sometimes is better to just light them up and keep them spotted for your team to kill them. And Japanese destroyers ( and some radar DDs ) are best in this, and once enemy DDs and radar Cruisers are out ...

Oh well guess what :

 

Pin on Funny stuff

Starts the massacre of red BBs with never ending walls of torpedoes. 

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1 minute ago, Big_Daddy5 said:

It is not for sure :cap_cool: 

Shima is a great boat and if you have experience player behind it it is more likely the Shima to sunk you. And that Shima torpedoes hit so hard ..... very often I get a Devastating Strike against other DDs with just one torpedo hit.

But experienced DD player can pretty much sink any type and class of enemy destroyer. If they have better DPM than you, then you have a better concealment it is enough to balance on the edge and keep them spotted for your team without engaging or finish them when they have been farmed and in panic. 

This is a team game and sometimes is better to just light them up and keep them spotted for your team to kill them. And Japanese destroyers ( and some radar DDs ) are best in this, and once enemy DDs and radar Cruisers are out ...

Oh well guess what :

You are outlining the correct play with Shima there (try to keep them lit without you being lit in return.
But assuming equal (and higher) skill levels, the Shima does not win an ordinary 1v1 where both are lit.
You can try to torp them (and it works every once in a while), but you can't rely on torps winning that engagement.
Any decent player will usually turn out (or in, depending on the ship) while keeping the gun dpm up.
As for Halland in this case, his torps are usually a bigger threat due to their speed and concealment (and Shima is a rather long ship for torps to land on), coupled with his superior dpm.
At sub 4 kms, yeah Shima torps are a real threat, but most gunboats won't engage the shima in that death zone if they halfway know what they are doing.

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3 hours ago, SkollUlfr said:

thing is, they are for all practical purposes, out-sneakied by the ikea boats.

Not really, at least not where it really matters: T8-10, the IJN line come in at 5.4, 5.5, and 5.6 km surface detection, respectively. From memory, Halland and Smaland, for instance, are 6.0, and 6.1 km.

 

The lack of smoke on the Ikeas doesn't help when thinking about sneakiness, but they do get the healing potion to mitigate that...

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20 minutes ago, Hirohito said:

You are outlining the correct play with Shima there (try to keep them lit without you being lit in return.
But assuming equal (and higher) skill levels, the Shima does not win an ordinary 1v1 where both are lit.
You can try to torp them (and it works every once in a while), but you can't rely on torps winning that engagement.
Any decent player will usually turn out (or in, depending on the ship) while keeping the gun dpm up.
As for Halland in this case, his torps are usually a bigger threat due to their speed and concealment (and Shima is a rather long ship for torps to land on), coupled with his superior dpm.
At sub 4 kms, yeah Shima torps are a real threat, but most gunboats won't engage the shima in that death zone if they halfway know what they are doing.

Good point, all true. To be honest if you play the strengths of the Japanese line DDs ( their great concealment ) when it come to a knife fight with the enemy destroyers they are usually already damaged ( due to spotting them earlier ) and then you can easily kill them keeping safe distance in case things go wrong, and if so then you can light your cigarette and disengage in the smoke.

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2 minutes ago, Verblonde said:

Not really, at least not where it really matters: T8-10, the IJN line come in at 5.4, 5.5, and 5.6 km surface detection, respectively. From memory, Halland and Smaland, for instance, are 6.0, and 6.1 km.

 

The lack of smoke on the Ikeas doesn't help when thinking about sneakiness, but they do get the healing potion to mitigate that...

Yes, indeed. Japanese line destroyers are masters of concealment and will always spot you first. Starting from tier 5 to tier 10 with small exceptions ( like Akatsuki in tier 7 ) :cap_cool:

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5 minutes ago, Big_Daddy5 said:

Good point, all true. To be honest if you play the strengths of the Japanese line DDs ( their great concealment ) when it come to a knife fight with the enemy destroyers they are usually already damaged ( due to spotting them earlier ) and then you can easily kill them keeping safe distance in case things go wrong, and if so then you can light your cigarette and disengage in the smoke.

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Very true.
For advanced tactics, know when to stop (last thing you want is steaming ahead full speed into a DD) and keep your stern towards where the enemy ship is likely to be, then just go forward (and away) if he keeps trying to spot you, ideally while still keeping him lit for your team.
It does require good situational awareness though.
Works especially well on french/russian DDs due to their horrible concealment.

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1 minute ago, Hirohito said:

Very true.
For advanced tactics, know when to stop (last thing you want is steaming ahead full speed into a DD) and keep your stern towards where the enemy ship is likely to be, then just go forward (and away) if he keeps trying to spot you, ideally while still keeping him lit for your team.
It does require good situational awareness though.
Works especially well on french/russian DDs due to their horrible concealment.

Never go full speed and straight line, play with speed and direction to confuse the enemy destroyer. And most importantly - know your ship and the enemy ship capabilities ( strength and weakness they all have ).

 

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, ColonelPete said:

Nobody said anything about sitting in smoke.

You get away (if it is dangerous) and reposition.

 

 

And then you are out of smoke and can be found again. You made a low effort and low quality comment fast as always, and now again you were too fast and wrong. 

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31 minutes ago, Big_Daddy5 said:

always spot you first.

It's probably worth noting a couple of 'close but no cigar' ships, that are close enough that it's very easy to get spotted at about the same time:

  • RN T8 DDs (Cossacks and Lightning) with 5.5 km, versus Kageros' 5.4 km.
  • UU Gearing which is almost the same as Shima (can't remember the numbers exactly).
  • I only just got Somers, but isn't she about 5.8, which is close to Shima's 5.6 too...

The Brits' defensive sonar can be nasty if the IJN DD tries to escape by means of its weed generator...

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15 minutes ago, rimmer_the said:

And then you are out of smoke and can be found again. You made a low effort and low quality comment fast as always, and now again you were too fast and wrong. 

He is right though.
If you do get spotted (ideally at or near a cap) by a Halland in a Shima (and to deep to disengage immediately), the correct thing to do is smoke up once the Halland uses his guns, in order for him to be lit while you safely get away, and then not sit still in that smoke afterwards.

I don't know if you have a personal issue with the poster you quoted, but this particular advice is not the piece of advice I'd take issue with.

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