Tiers 1, 2 & maybe 3 - the only tiers to play.

[Aethervoxx]

I'm beginning to think that the only tiers worth playing are the low tiers.

Why? Due to several factors;

1) WG has offered premium ships in every tier so we now see hopelessly incompetent players in all tiers (even T10 now)

2) WG has ruined CV play with their rework.

3) WG has ruined DD play due to the CV rework.

4) WG has ruined AA, again, due to the CV rework.

5) WG wants to shove Subs into the game in much the same short-sighted way they shoved the CV rework into the game.

6) WG wants to rework Cpt skills, another Failure in the making.

Therefore, the only tiers worth playing now, ones that WG still hasn't completely ruined, are tiers 1 & 2 (& maybe 3, although T3 can be uptiered to see T4 farce reworked CVs).

Still, T1 & T2 can be fun to play (even with Bots in random battles) tho I prefer 12 a side RL players.

Too bad, WF (err WG) failed to begin this game with more earlier era warships so we could have seen even more of these early examples.

                           

 

[ColonelPete]

1. You think the competence is higher on Tier I to III?
2. no need to play CV
3. they still work fine
4. if AA is the thing you play WoWs for, then yes, you are in trouble
5. why change your gameplay when they are not even in the game yet?
6. why change your gameplay when it is not yet implemented? Apart from the fact that it will affect all Tiers...

 

[DariusJacek]

On 1/1/2021 at 11:25 PM, ColonelPete said:

You think the competence is higher on Tier I to III?

Maybe not higher but at least mistakes aren't punished so strongly, game is dynamic not a campfest and you do not have too high expectations of your teammates

Sadly waiting time is too long.

[SkollUlfr]

57 minutes ago, Aethervoxx said:

1) WG has offered premium ships in every tier so we now see hopelessly incompetent players in all tiers (even T10 now)

2) WG has ruined CV play with their rework.

3) WG has ruined DD play due to the CV rework.

4) WG has ruined AA, again, due to the CV rework.

5) WG wants to shove Subs into the game in much the same short-sighted way they shoved the CV rework into the game.

6) WG wants to rework Cpt skills, another Failure in the making.

1) high sigma railguns are the definition of personal skill.

2) that is an opinion you are having. card battle cv's was worse than current. though there are major issues with the wider game that need fixing

-*fighters should not spot. weegee nurfed cat fighter from spotting as this was called 'misuse' yet many cv only use it for spotting. duplicity and hypocrisy.

-*cv can force deactivation of cat fighter, yet dd cant force deactivation of radar/sonar. duplicity and hypocrisy.

-*weegee removed jects from a cv years ago as they where 'too fast', then added mvr's rocket planes, then nurfed all rocket planes. duplicity and hypocrisy.

3) dd play is still more viable than many CL due to overmatch making them 2 hit kills from any angle at high tier. but yes, there are problems. 

-*fighters should not be reporting ship positions, standard squadrons should be forced to use WoT radio mechanics to report targets, and see nothing if too far away from the cv.

4) aa isnt ruined, but it also isnt balanced. this is due to the mess the game becomes at t10. where planes are made to be the equal of a group of t10 ships aa.

that shouldnt have happened, cv should have been at odd tiers so that the plane hp vs aa could be contained rather than cause a destructive cascade effect they cant fix to anyones satisfaction given current game mechanics.

5) the game already has kamekazi. and subs are being set up to work like dd with different defences. your worry is due to t10 l33t sk1ll h2.0 sigma railguns that are already broken, and subs will make a complete joke out of.

6)the skill rework is another example of shuffling deck chairs on the titanic. it would be ok if they would, ya know, fix the things that are causing the systemic problems.

-*the now broken, inept and myopic fire, flood and module damage mechanics, that cant reasonably be applied to the current variety of the game.

and then there are consumables, some issues with which i mentioned above. magic ground penetrating radar and sonar being ancient issues that remain unfixed.

 

hopefully they are taking a good long at that admirals game and seeing some good ideas to fix underlying issues here.

[Figment]

1 hour ago, Aethervoxx said:

1) WG has offered premium ships in every tier so we now see hopelessly incompetent players in all tiers (even T10 now)

2) WG has ruined CV play with their rework.

3) WG has ruined DD play due to the CV rework.

4) WG has ruined AA, again, due to the CV rework.

5) WG wants to shove Subs into the game in much the same short-sighted way they shoved the CV rework into the game.

6) WG wants to rework Cpt skills, another Failure in the making.

Therefore, the only tiers worth playing now, ones that WG still hasn't completely ruined, are tiers 1 & 2 (& maybe 3, although T3 can be uptiered to see T4 farce reworked CVs).

Still, T1 & T2 can be fun to play (even with Bots in random battles) tho I prefer 12 a side RL players.

Too bad, WF (err WG) failed to begin this game with more earlier era warships so we could have seen even more of these early examples.

1. This isn't down to premium ships. Bad players move up the ranks and were there years ago. Even bad, casual players can get a T8-T10 in a few months effort if they focus on a single line. Hell, they can grind there through coop if they want (and some do). I would however denote thata lot of premium ships (definitely not all) are somewhat subpar and have a harder time if not manned by a decent player. Think Anchorage too. You will notice this deficiency/liability more in higher tiers, but it's not that the bad players wern't there in the first place. Remember, in a grind game, everyone gets at the top tier eventually, just at different speeds.

 

2/3/4 Meh. Don't quite agree. It's a bit more nuanciated than that. But there's topics for that.

 

5. If they really wanted that they'd not have made it a separate mode last time. Even then they wern't a huge issue to play against aside from some obvious child decease exploits.

 

6. Can be, doesn't have to be that bad. But it's IMO often a bad idea to give more advantages to grinding players. But this is something I dislike about tiered grind games in general, the deliberate unequal chance creation between players by improving some people's gear or tools over those of others and therefore improve their chances of winning. The module upgrades is bad enough. Sidegrades for specialization is one thing, upgrades means you create an uneven playing field and force a grind to the top where everyone will end up eventually.

 

What I dislike is that the lower tiers are considered mere training grounds and everything promotes moving to higher tiers, depopulating the lower tiers. That is entirely down to the vertical tiering system and escalating power creep. The power creep gets worse at T8-X and makes people - regardless of their skill - want to get the top dog tool. It stops people from playing the lower tiers. It'd be nice if there were tech trees that rather than vertically, would branch out sideways. They don't all need to go all the way up to tier X. Just let them end at a medium tier and give that unit priviliged matchmaking and perhaps improved silver farming (creating mid tier "top tiers" that don't really create power creep among players). This would both make certain nations worth providing a tech tree of their own even if it doesn't reach to the top tiers and populate the lower tiers a bit more.

[Skurfa]

One thing I do agree on, lower tiers are more fun.

 

Even as a BB player, once you get a hang of dealing with destroyers, is it fun.

 

The only annoying part is those stupid CV’s, they’re the “finger of “[edited]you”” in all tiers, they’re the reason when you just get out of a battle and find time to heal up, and see a squadron heading your way..... you just press “leave battle”.... and enter a new one. At least as a battleship or cruiser. Destroyer.... can handle them, as long as there are bigger fish out there.

[Ronchabale]

If it wasn´t for the incomplete teams being half full of :bots: a tier 2-4 game now and again would be fun

And then the double carriers at low tiers... (has Hosho been nerfed yet ?)

No snowflakes at tier 4 either

So I don´t play tier 1-4.. ever..

Tier 5 well, the snowflakes, but even there u can be surprised..

Yesterday..

How do u manage to beat down a almost full HP Colorado with your half HP New York

Easy, find a dude with 136 games total

( TBH most :bots: play better than he did)

So tier 6-10

 

 

[Zuihou_Kai]

Well have fun in those tiers then. 

[xXAmaroqXx]

Personally I enjoy Tiers 5 to 8 most.

 

Tier 1 and 2 is usually filled with bots that just play awful, and whichever side takes out the real players first, usually wins. Teaches you something about target selection, you could say? :-/

 

Tier 3 and 4 are victims to the spam of CV's while the other ships have no AA to speak of, and thus are unable to do anything about the planes. This is good for the CV drivers to learn the class, but bad for everyone else. Granted, the times where you had 3 CVs in a Tier 3-4 game are luckily over, but there still is 1 or 2 CVs in most matches I play at that tier. If you stumble upon a no CV battle, it can be fun for the same reasons I list next.

 

Tier 5 and 6 I consider very fun because many players are still testing out strategies you dont see later. You can still attempt silly things like going down mid-lane on "Two brothers" and actually make it work some of the times or sneak up with a DD for a fast and furious drive-by attack. On later tier levels, you get punished way too hard for actions like these, and more often than not, you'll be halted in your attempt long before you even got there because some player pressed some button that says radar, or everyone simply staying behind islands. CV's are roughly as powerful as other ship classes here I believe, although have much more influence as a bad CV vs a good CV makes or breaks the game often. I also think the game balance here works relatively well. It is incredibly rare to see something way overpowered (i.e. gulio Caesare) so most games I feel like are pretty fair.

 

Tier 7 and 8 Id say are most comfortable. CV's are really important but not ridiculously overpowered yet, and other ships are reliable and do what theyre supposed to better than before without ridiculous things entering the game yet that you see on Tier 9 and 10. Most game mechanics are working at this tier and radar slowly becomes a thing. Crazy powerful ships are still rare exceptions (i.e. Belfast, Enterprise), and I consider most things on these tiers well balanced.

 

Tier 9 and 10 become the area where many people make losses if they have a bad game and start to play REALLY conservatively with their ship HP. Passive long range gameplay is rewarded more, particularly in the high tiers where ships are accurate enough to pull it off with great success, and thus, I see a lot of forward-backward drifting where there should be engaging close quarters combat brawls and midrange battles. The introduction of radar, coupled with tons of long range firepower also punishes players attempting to close the distance and go for open water caps or sneak up, whereas smoked rapid fire cruisers punish any BB push. Some CV's are completely out of control and the only REAL defense against them is to group up - single targets will just be obliterated by them, and if the CV really wants you dead and is willing to sacrifice a few squadrons, no amount of AA will stop them from killing you.

Some single ships dominate the meta way too much by abusing game mechanics in their favor or are simply overstatted (Musashi, Jean Bart, Smolensk, Georgia, Thunderer) - the difference here is that you see tons of these ships - some are guaranteed to be in every game because they can (or were able to-) be grinded for with ingame ressources (that is good), most people aim their grind at them (with good reason), and once you have them, you can train your captains on them, they make a large profit even during lost rounds in a otherwise very costly environment AND they outperform tech tree ships, leaving little reason to play something else if it wasnt for fun or missions.

[invicta2012]

6 hours ago, xXAmaroqXx said:

Some single ships dominate the meta way too much by abusing game mechanics in their favor or are simply overstatted (Musashi, Jean Bart, Smolensk, Georgia, Thunderer) - the difference here is that you see tons of these ships - some are guaranteed to be in every game because they can (or were able to-) be grinded for with ingame ressources (that is good), most people aim their grind at them (with good reason), and once you have them, you can train your captains on them, they make a large profit even during lost rounds in a otherwise very costly environment AND they outperform tech tree ships, leaving little reason to play something else if it wasnt for fun or missions.

I think you've made a good point about high tier ships and resources. Many of the premium releases have fallen into the trap of being "doublegood" - too strong in terms of gameplay and too strong in terms of the rewards they generate (which is, of course, a multiplicative effect for the player and why we see too many of certain Premium ships...). It's now quite easy to play Premium / Special ships at Tier IX/X all the time and make a fat profit - even in Co-op. Was that intended?

[FixCVs_Nautical_Metaphor]

JFTR, I don't have a lot of Tier III statistics but what little numbers I do have, the average rate of carrier battles is 50%. That is about the same as Tier V and VII, and 20% more than on Tier IX.

 

(The difference of course being that a few Tier IX ships actually do have almost barely adequate AA.)

[triumphgt6]

I think tier 7 and 8 are the most fun - less camping. The problem with playing very low tiers is that you are really seal clubbing. I think the rule should be that once you have played say 2000 battles, you are only allowed to take Mikasa and Tachibana out! And we all should have at least one Tachibana now! 

[Big_Daddy5]

Sure, welcome the newbies with punch in the face and show them their place   Always safer to fight the chickens with 10 games in total in tiers 1- 3 than the wolves in tiers 8 - 10 

Time to take out your ( see below ) and hunt them down 

[Figment]

1 hour ago, triumphgt6 said:

I think tier 7 and 8 are the most fun - less camping. The problem with playing very low tiers is that you are really seal clubbing. I think the rule should be that once you have played say 2000 battles, you are only allowed to take Mikasa and Tachibana out! And we all should have at least one Tachibana now! 

Just for the record, Tachibana is considered bad how? >.>

 

Because I'm not feeling it as bad in the two matches I've played with it, but maybe I've missed it or just faced too many incompetents. I mean, it's got good concealment (the base 5.4km is meh, but with capt. points it is 4.7km, which you should be able to have since it's a premium and can thus put your high tier DD captains on), 2x2 high rof torps with 5.2km range and decent HE turrets that turn fast enough to keep them on target throughout an engagement, long fog time and HE that felt at the least decent.

 

Got 6 kills and barely any damage, where it could have just as easily been 10 kills total if it wasn't for the low healths being picked off by someone else as I pulled out again in the hit and run ambush attacks. It's perfect in allowing you to control the entire engagement, IMO. Sure torps aren't that speedy and alpha damage is low, but range is adequate for DD engagements or fog engagements at that tier and rate of fire is high enough to compensate.

[Skyllon]

36 minutes ago, Big_Daddy5 said:

(...) wolves in tiers 8 - 10 

Huh?

 

 

 

[viceadmiral123]

Tiers 7 and 9 are the most enjoyable for me in terms of ship and map variety. Also a potato in a t7 ship will have less game impact than a potato in a t10 ship, so most random battles are salvageable.

[rimmer_the]

On 1/2/2021 at 12:54 AM, DariusJacek said:

Maybe not higher but at least mistakes aren't punished so strongly, game is dynamic not a campfest and you do not have to high expectations of your teammates

Sadly waiting time is too long.

Seems you have never witnessed a full division of Hermelins creating a bloodbath at 2 am....

[Big_Daddy5]

27 minutes ago, Skyllon said:

Huh?

 

 

 

They suppose to be wolves, but sometimes you have this instead ( like Iowa with 349 battles in tier 9 battle cruising like a transport ship to China ) 

 

 

Sometimes you get angry pinchers & chihuahuas in tier 8 - 10 battles   Get used to it 

[Figment]

47 minutes ago, rimmer_the said:

Seems you have never witnessed a full division of Hermelins creating a bloodbath at 2 am....

Came across a division of three clan Charlestons trying to seal club.

 

 

The poor things were clubbed by me (Bogatyr) and my nephew (Charleston) very, very hard. :)

 

The fun thing about these seal clubber divisions is that when they actually encounter a good player who knows when to change ammo types or use terrain to avoid being ganged up on, they quickly lose their group discipline as they run for cover individually and leave their friends alone to fend for themselves. They tend to rely on volume of fire and numbers rather than personal skill and expect little resistance. Very satisfying to defeat. I'd like to play more low tiers, but it just feels too easy so we only do low tiers once every few months for a few matches. Took the Albany out for a spin last week and it still felt very fun, can only imagine what it'd be like if I actually put an upgraded captain on it with concealment or rate of fire.

[triumphgt6]

6 hours ago, Figment said:

Just for the record, Tachibana is considered bad how? >.>

 

Because I'm not feeling it as bad in the two matches I've played with it, but maybe I've missed it or just faced too many incompetents. I mean, it's got good concealment (the base 5.4km is meh, but with capt. points it is 4.7km, which you should be able to have since it's a premium and can thus put your high tier DD captains on), 2x2 high rof torps with 5.2km range and decent HE turrets that turn fast enough to keep them on target throughout an engagement, long fog time and HE that felt at the least decent.

 

Got 6 kills and barely any damage, where it could have just as easily been 10 kills total if it wasn't for the low healths being picked off by someone else as I pulled out again in the hit and run ambush attacks. It's perfect in allowing you to control the entire engagement, IMO. Sure torps aren't that speedy and alpha damage is low, but range is adequate for DD engagements or fog engagements at that tier and rate of fire is high enough to compensate.

It has 75mm main guns which explains low damage output and the torps are fun but not very damaging - it has all that is necessary to be entertaining without being deadly to baby seals - much like the Mikasa - and I forgot - the truly abysmal Albany. This ship was one I bought when I started and actually sold because it annoyed me so much but for some masochistic reason I bought it again because it was actually built in Newcastle where I am from. It is still pitifully bad!

But bad in this case means entertaining - taking on better ships in something really awful means a more level playing field. Equally I always felt that steel reward ships ought to have a fatal flaw - like the gap in Smaug's armour - which needs care to protect rather than something ridiculously better than other ships which is then played by the best players. Call it a British sense of fair play! 

[SkollUlfr]

6 hours ago, Figment said:

 

Because I'm not feeling it as bad in the two matches I've played with it

its just not as good as the isoclubber

[Deckeru_Maiku]

1 hour ago, SkollUlfr said:

its just not as good as the isoclubber

Isokaze = T4

 

To properly educate noobs new players - especially BaBByseals - it's vital to start early.

So...

T2 - Tachibana (Lima), Smith (= learn to dodge THOSE torps...) are a start..

T3 - Vampire. Really... it's THE clubber of clubs... and it even clubs Babyairpests... Cambeltown also works... and Prince König Albert. And when one wants some challenge, go clubbing in the Katori.

 

---

 

And contrary to the OP I have enough fun to continue playing this game between T2 and T7, with rare excursions into T8+

Yes, 2 CVs at T4 s*ck. But sometimes you're lucky and only get one.. or - very rarely - none at all... And even with two, the chances to them being useless potatoes that manage to outplay themselves are high...

T6 is kinda bad-ish as you get uptiered into T8 battles quite often, but at least you probably won't many CVs there.. well, not the T8 CVs... sometimes T6 CVs (including me...)

 

But all in all, if one doesn't like the "don't move and never get close to not get shot at" mentality of T9/10 battles, for me it's really possible to play from T2 to 7 without too much fuss...

Still CVs deserve a severe nerf. They OP-ish.