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ZWC

advice on commander xp use related captain rework

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[-NYX-]
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Hello all,
well we may have to help each other out here.
To prevent a costly mistake on how to spend / safe your amount of elite commander XP.

No matter how good the game knowledge will be, you cannot know everything.
Nor make the right choices every time.

The captain rework will change a bit here and there..... ( my fears are to the hilt )
please share your thoughts on the pro's and con's
If you think this info is needed, helpful or easily overseen. 
(for oldies & newbies)

We don't want to make an irreversible mistake.

Well I got some 19 point commanders. (a few in most nations)
and I have a few million elite commander XP. stockpiled.

More or less , many players will have this situation and are preparing for the upcoming captain rework. 

Here is my dilemma.
use or save the Elite XP.

We may want help out all players here,
so there are more solutions to the same dilemma.

For what I understand about the skill-points....
and what my first reaction was.
- Save as much Elite XP to max out my most valuable commanders. from 19 to 21 points.
This still may be a good choice but is it wise to use it all on maxing? 

from 19 to 21 will cost some XP, but the thing is.... how much.
And here I mean....
not only the total XP from 19 to 21, but also the XP re scale!

Because for what I fear will happen is;
- the XP table from 0 to 19 now, will not be the same as from 0 to 19 new situation.

And do the commanders keep their level..??? !.
or are they being downgraded towards a new XP-table. (xp-scale)?

if commanders keep their level while the XP requirement do change. 
players may want to use the elite-XP !
Because leveling up is cheaper now than it will become. 

should we use the XP to make as many captains 19 point.
should we make as many to the 14 or 16 / 17 point level.
should players make as many 10 points ?

How about buying the special commanders while they still are at 1500 doubloons or 35,000 coal
(not for me, I got 'm all)
but specially to new players.... handy to know.

I think, there are players hungry for good advice here.

To me, 
- Is the XP per level going to change? YES or NO?
- And does the percent point-level stay the same? YES or NO?
- yes-yes, yes-no, no-yes, no-no..... 4 combinations , all different solutions,
....
spend, save, 50/50, 60/40,....?
and probably I overlook some other questions here. 
 
So if level up cost less now than in future.
- Spending up your elite comm.XP can be wise.
- playing low points commanders will be wise. (for those players still in need of good captains)
- playing to get just the last comm.xp to jump to a next point,... will be wise.
- use elite comm.XP to next level all useful commanders in barracks.


YES or NO? SAVE or USE? GAIN or LOOSE....
now we can still make the choice. 

Sorry for the text wall.... better double then forgetting

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Players
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All your commanders will keep the amount of skill points they already have, there will just be two additional points to grind, worth 1.2 million xp in total. I'd advise reading about the information already released by WG about this, as it effectively nullifies most of your concerns there. That is not to say there aren't legitimate concerns to have about this rework - I consider it a potentially game breaking event on a much grander scale than the CV rework ever was.

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[2DQT]
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I can respec captains ehich I built wrong. Thats good. 

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[SM0KE]
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I haven't been paying enough attention to comment on some of this stuff, but as a general approach, I'm thinking along the following lines at the moment:

  • Don't do anything irreversible until we really know all the detail; there have been significant changes in the past where WG made a major Richard move in some way, and it wasn't apparent until the very last minute.
  • The apparent cost of the 'extra' two points on captains is entirely unreasonable, and I don't believe WG should be rewarded for this greed, so a key aim for me is to try and avoid rewarding them in any way whatsoever (although I won't cut my nose off to spite my face).
  • My aim is to get as many 21 pointers as practical, as quickly as possible; in the first instance, this will probably mean low single figures (1-3). Unless I've missed something, this is best served by holding onto my elite captain xp for the moment, so as to concentrate it in whichever existing 19 pointers I select.
  • It'll take a while to work out which skills are really worthwhile, so the existing advice to zero all my captains, and then experiment with as few as is tolerable, still makes good sense. WG will ensure that something important changes after the free respec has ended, so 'encouraging' us to spend.
  • I intend playing only a very few captains initially, and making as much use of my premium ships as possible; in theory, I should be able to experiment with all classes of ship with just one captain, if I pick the right nation (i.e. one with lots of premiums, ideally covering all classes). I'm thinking that for the duration of the free respec, I should mess around with a few different existing 19 pointers to concentrate captain xp where it'll be needed, and then zero them all at the end. After that, perhaps play just one non-special captain, to keep pushing towards 21 points, but avoiding expensive resets of other captains when WG drop their inevitable changes on us. I'm thinking avoiding the special captains initially (i.e. after the respec ends) as - depending on what WG do to them - there is a better chance of it being more important that they're set up 'right', so making me keener to rectify any mistakes by spending.

I suspect the key advice will be to play/experiment as much as possible while respeccing is free, while focusing captain xp where you will need it most (so, don't spread it thinly), and after that exercise as much patience as possible - unless you want to take a break from the game while others work out the best approaches, the 'ideal' will be to play with just one captain, using him/her/it on multiple ships.

 

BTW depending on what's in your port (and this will be of most use to whales), one of the HSF captains might be a good one to pick: they aren't 'specials' and they work on more ships than anyone else i.e. their own nation, plus any other HSF premiums you may have.

 

 

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[THIR]
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The cost for the first 19 points won't change. You really only need enough Elite Commander XP to get back the ability to farm Elite Commander XP which is 1.2 million per commander. If you only need one commander, let's say because you have two ships from one nation and one is a premium and you really like to play them, there's no need for more than these 1.2 million Elite Commander XP.

 

In terms of combat effectiveness the two additional points might or might not be a noticeable difference. It depends on the ship and which build you use. The most common setup is 1, 2, 2, 2 which means one skill from the first row, two from all others. In that case the two additional skillpoints translate to one more 2-pointer which is most likely not a big difference. My DDs for example will lose quite a bit of firepower and no matter how I distribute 21 skill points I'm not going to get it back. The combination of nerfed old skills and the new layout makes it impossible. Therefore I wouldn't train a commander to max level for the skill points, only for the ability to farm Elite Commander XP.

 

You can try as many captain builds as you like during the next update, but afterwards the cost for respeccing and retraining of a commander who can farm Elite Commander XP will rise significantly. Make sure you have nailed down everything by then or simply leave the skill points undistributed if you need more time to make up your mind.

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[-NYX-]
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24 minutes ago, Verblonde said:

I suspect the key advice will be to play/experiment as much as possible while respeccing is free,

thanks for the overall comment.
and this ...
I thought there would be no free respecting.
I must have got it wrong , for I thought we had to buy our commander reset. less % for silver and 80% for gold.

So basically I can reset all my commanders and play around whit the funny ones.
Funny ones are those I really can't understand when they talk to me.
And just one max point that can climb into all premiums... of one nation. to test.
Well there I will not have any problem... 

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Never forget that WG's business model rests on two equally important pillars: Player time spent on their servers, and player money spent on their commercial products.

 

As a new player, and even as a fairly old hand, no amount of ECXP that you have, or can realistically save up, will help you much because Wargaming are deliberately overpricing the final two skill points in a completely ridiculous manner.

 

At the same time, they are building players a proverbial Golden Bridge by making it possible to buy back 25% of the XP that players ground out to train those captains, when dismissing them, in the form of ECXP, and letting you take ships into battle without captains.

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1IucYwAmu1-6s7qU2P0jMlYmT3dHOybmgttW1Kanlmkg/edit#gid=2125998039

 

So that is obviously what they want you to do:

Fire all the lower skilled captains from the port queens that you only ever use for snowflaking anyway - grind millions and millions of credits, to buy back a ressource they conveniently devalued for you, a second time after you ground that very same ressource for the first time.

Which is theft by any other name.

OR you can use the short cut and give them actual money to buy back a little more of what you should be regarding as your own property.

And what you are getting for that is nerfed Cruiser and DD captains or moderately buffed BB captains with some really idiotic skills that actively discourage team play. And those are put up against massively buffed CV captains.

 

Because everybody knows CVs and DDs have been too tanky anyway. And what this game really suffered from was BBs not camping hard enough on the back line while CVs were not easy enough to play and not OP enough by a long shot.

 

 

 

Obviously there will follow more steps to squeeze and defraud players further, once they have successfully burned off all these ressources.

 

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[-NYX-]
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34 minutes ago, Stormhawk_V said:

The cost for the first 19 points won't change. You really only need enough Elite Commander XP to get back the ability to farm Elite Commander XP which is 1.2 million per commander.

thanks for the info, but wow... 1,200,000 xp for 2 levels.

to go from 14 to 15 you need 159,000
to 16 189,000 more
to 17 222,000
to 18 259,000
and last jump is 300,000 

 and this will not change?
are we sure about that? 

seems to me those remaining 2 levels in not in par....

that we keep our point level is good,... but will the xp table still remain unchanged for the first 19?
If you get the idea I'm pointing.... (to use some xp to level up your lower level commanders)

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[THIR]
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Just now, ZWC said:

thanks for the info, but wow... 1,200,000 xp for 2 levels.

to go from 14 to 15 you need 159,000
to 16 189,000 more
to 17 222,000
to 18 259,000
and last jump is 300,000 

 and this will not change?
are we sure about that? 

seems to me those remaining 2 levels in not in par....

The values are indeed insane and while there might be more adjustments to the new skills themselves I'm afraid the numbers are final. The idea here is obviously to drain accounts of Elite Commander XP.

 

Just now, ZWC said:

that we keep our point level is good,... but will the xp table still remain unchanged for the first 19?
If you get the idea I'm pointing.... (to use some xp to level up your lower level commanders)

Yes, it will remain unchanged. There's no need to spend Elite Commander XP on commanders that haven't reached 19 points by now.

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[SM0KE]
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26 minutes ago, ZWC said:

seems to me those remaining 2 levels in not in par....

They absolutely aren't; it is this aspect that I personally am angry about.

 

I don't really mind WG messing about with things - in general - at least, when there is a sensible reason; yeah, things will change, some ships will get better and others worse - swings and roundabouts and all that. But in this case, they could have rearranged things without the blatant cash-grab, and without shafting newer players (this extra 1.2 million xp thing almost doubles what it takes to get a full  point captain - good luck with that, newbies).

 

If WG were merely concerned with draining the captain xp economy, they could have simply provided people with a premium ship or magic captain that you could only buy with that resource, or maybe an interesting permaflage.

 

WG get bonus 'pi$$ing off the paying customers' points for essentially trying to tell us that our new 21 point captains will be better (than our existing 19 pointers) when - for the princely sum of 1.2 million captain xp - you end up with a captain with the same skills, only nerfed, with a lot of common DD builds (any with both PT and AR - which both go up a point in cost, plus the nerfed BFT). Their actual words were that while we were grinding the extra two points, there would be no loss of efficiency (for strict accuracy).

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[-NYX-]
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1 hour ago, FixCVs_Nautical_Metaphor said:

And what you are getting for that is nerfed Cruiser and DD captains or moderately buffed BB captains with some really idiotic skills that actively discourage team play. And those are put up against massively buffed CV captains.

good helpful info. always nice to get the actual "turn out to be" info.

nerfed DD and buffed CV....scares me a bit off the Somers I was planning to get in just a week.

and I fear I will loose 3 newbie friend over this rework..... 
Telling them about this game, bringing them to play it,... seeing they spend some money on captains....
Now 2 of them are into the cruiser lines and one loves DD's......

we love some action,... not the camping part... Pffff

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[SM0KE]
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15 minutes ago, ZWC said:

nerfed DD

I'm not certain yet that DDs are nerfed overall:

  • For a start, everyone gets impacted, so it's not just us that lose captain effectiveness.
  • The cruiser players are very upset, I gather, and they're our primary predators (in terms of actual damage).
  • I gather that at least some of the CV boosts are about scragging fatties, so that *might* encourage at least some of the buggers to chase BBs more (which helps our DDs, if not their team).
  • DDs get some potentially interesting skills that make us harder to hit some of the time, and some are flat-out boosts (for example TA no longer nerfs range, I think).

So, everyone is in the same boat (as it were), and there may be scope to do some things in DDs that we can't do as well at the moment. We just have to see what the final skills end up looking like.

 

As I mentioned earlier, I suspect a lot of the changes will end up being a bit swings/roundabouts; it just sucks to be a) a cruiser and especially b) a 'fatty' cruiser, even more especially with decent secondaries.

 

The enormous - nay, humongous - metaphorical dump that WG have taken in the middle of our collective meringues is the ridiculous cost of it all. IMO, of course.

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[THIR]
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Just now, Verblonde said:
  • DDs get some potentially interesting skills that make us harder to hit some of the time, and some are flat-out boosts (for example TA no longer nerfs range, I think).

The problem is you're already starved for points on DDs and another 4-pointer (alongside CE and RPF) can only be included into the build by limiting yourself to one 3-pointer (so you lose either SE or AR) or dropping PT. TA on the other hand was actually nerfed as it's now percentage based. Only the Pan-EU DDs reach the old value of 5 additional knots, all other DDs get less out of this skill than before. Torpedo reload would be much more useful but again you have to drop SE, AR or PT for it if you want to keep CE and RPF. Even if your build didn't include BFT there's no way to get the old performance back unless WG reduces the cost of at least one 2-pointer.

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[ALYEN]
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3 hours ago, HARBINGER_OF_SKULLS said:

Reset, demount, hibernate for half a year, play minor alt accounts. :Smile_smile:

This ... I have a CV alt ready for that ...

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[SM0KE]
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34 minutes ago, Stormhawk_V said:

there's no way to get the old performance back

This is true, but what I was obliquely referencing with the whole 'all in the same boat' thing i.e. we're all boned.

 

Also, with this new normal, we are forced to choose between a number of viable skills i.e. there may well no longer be 'one' choice for any given ship (or at least some of them) - I suppose, if this is really the case, we should acknowledge that an alleged aim of the exercise has been achieved. Basically, we can't have everything we want, even with 21 points.

 

I'm also assuming that most of the nerfs are designed to reduce the impact of a good captain; currently, well-chosen captain skills can have a significant impact, which makes life easier for older lags - if that impact is lessened, it makes an actively good captain less crucial for many players. Or at least that may be the idea; personally, I think they'll still matter, and it's now almost impossible for newcomers to catch us more experienced players, which risks turning said newcomers off the game.

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[THIR]
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There are still skills that are so much better than anything else, especially for DDs. Earlier today I sunk a no SE, no CE Z-23. If you play one of the weaker DDs without these skills you're just cannonfodder. There's simply no reason to further nerf DDs, be it relative to other classes or not. They had to stomach so many negative changes over the past two years, it's absolutely baffling to watch this bullship keep going. Why is LS half as expensive for cruisers? Why nerf BFT but keep the cost? Why turn the TA bonus into a percentage based value? Why all these obscure 'if, then' skills? I don't get it.

 

Look at all the confusion. No one knows what to do. Some players are expecting hidden changes that will absolutely shaft them and I can't even blame them with what WG has done in the past. It's a really bad situation for the players while WG is looking forward to the next opportunity to farm the whales, rubbing their hands with glee so hard that they catch fire.

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[H_FAN]
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Some of us (probably very few) including myself - veterans seems to have acredit path - so it is not only a eliteXP sink it is a credit sink.

If we buy the 6 p en masse and dimiss and recoup 25% I think I recall a sum of some 100-130 M for the step 19 to 21p. 

While probably out of reach for nearly all, with such a cost I have a few captains that I can train up this way and I will probably use this method at least partly - suddenly that cash mountain is of some value. 

 

But I feel no abnormal hurry - I will probably grind a few captains on a few tech trees +premiums that I like during the first period and reset all captains and unmount many upgrades.

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