High tier state of the game not strategical anymore

[LemonadeWarriorITA]

So I am Lemon, I have been playing from closed beta on both EU and NA server, 50+ tier 10's, played a little competitive, played some tournaments and upon today I still play Random Battle's and Ranked Battle's.

Personally I get most joy from playing the game as strategically as possible. I like to put my ships in the perfect position to hold key areas to keep the points flowing leading me to a victory, while killing the right targets. Nowadays it is hard to find this feeling, even in Clan Battles.

 

Time moves on, changes happen and etcetera I understand, but what I don't understand is the decisions made by this game developer. So that is why I am reaching out to the forum, because perhaps someone can explain to me why WarGaming is making certain decisions.

 

So what is weird about the game?

 

Game balance

Game balance at tier 10 is shifting from a strategical game to basically a point and shoot game.

 

• Tactical position to hold key objective: you are now stuck due constant CV spotting and bomb drops.
• Tactical flanking: You are fine till you get spotted -> constant spotting & bomb drops.
• Brawling to gain a key objective: get HE spammed by battleships from 20km and constant bomb drops by a carrier.
• Sniping from 20 km: not any downsides, you might lose, you might win, at least you get to shoot the entire game.

 

The average server win rate is 48% and in the past months I have been playing with some kind of stats monitor. This showed me that it is easy for the average player to hit a target at 20km, but difficult to find the key objective. Regarding this nothing changed, because hitting stuff has always been relative easy compared to understanding the mini-map. 

CV main: "But Lemon, sitting still or flanking with a carrier present is bad positioning." Yes, since the introduction of the CV rework dynamic gameplay got punished very hard or in other words: being able to read the mini map and making use of it. Assuming you know what you are talking about you also realize the 20km sniping meta is the only thing we have left. In other words strategical gameplay is being removed bit by bit.

It bothers me that WarGaming is still using the word strategical, so I hope WarGaming would be so kind to explain to me what is so strategical about this game nowadays at high tier gameplay... Because right now it is starting to feel like this little ad WarGaming had where you could point and shoot at a Yamato...

 

Suggestions to fix some poor game balance decisions to bring back strategical gameplay:

• RN BB line: nerf fire chance to regular BB fire chance, including premiums.
• SN BB high tiers: nerf belt armor thickness.
• SN DD's: Both lines have the same gameplay.
• SN high tier heavy cruisers: nerf improved penetration angles.
• SAP: Nerf penetration angles.
• PAN EU DD's: remove narrow spread & add regular wide spread.
• KM BB's: give them the same dcp / repair party stuff like Massa.
• Carriers: change AP armament to HE armament.
• Carriers: Remove spotting by fighter consumable.
• Carriers: Introduce fuel mechanic.
• Carriers: Increase alpha strike damage.
• Carriers: normal fire duration (60s) (=> thus also removal of automatic DCP) 
• Roosevelt: remove it from the game and refund steel.
• Anti-aircraft defensive consumable: bring back panic effect
• Finish the AA rework; use your data and check all ships in this game. (example given: MN DDs are unplayable with CV present and near OP without CV)
• Map: Northern Waters EpiCenter; increase size of capture zones (unplayable right now)

 

Russian translation below:

Spoiler

Итак, я - Лимон, я играл из закрытого бета-тестирования на серверах ЕС и Северной Америки, 50+ уровней 10, играл немного соревновательно, играл в некоторых турнирах, и сегодня я все еще играю в случайных и ранговых боях.

Лично мне больше всего нравится играть в игру настолько стратегически, насколько это возможно. Мне нравится ставить свои корабли в идеальное положение, чтобы удерживать ключевые области, чтобы очки текли, ведущие меня к победе, при этом убивая правильные цели. Сейчас такое чувство сложно найти даже в клановых боях.

Время идет, происходят изменения и так далее. Я понимаю, но не понимаю решений, принятых этим разработчиком игры. Вот почему я обращаюсь к форуму, потому что, возможно, кто-нибудь может объяснить мне, почему WarGaming принимает определенные решения.

Так что же странного в игре?

Баланс игры

Игровой баланс на уровне 10 переходит от стратегической игры к игре типа «наведи и стреляй».

Тактическая позиция для удержания ключевой цели: теперь вы застряли из-за постоянного обнаружения CV и сбрасывания бомб.
Тактический фланг: с вами все в порядке, пока вас не заметят -> постоянное обнаружение и сбрасывание бомб.
Сражайтесь, чтобы достичь ключевой цели: получить спам ОН с линкоров с 20 км и постоянное сбрасывание бомб с авианосца.
Снайперская стрельба с 20 км: никаких минусов, вы можете проиграть, вы можете выиграть, по крайней мере, вы можете стрелять всю игру.

Средний процент побед на сервере составляет 48%, и в последние месяцы я играл с каким-то монитором статистики. Это показало мне, что среднему игроку легко поразить цель на 20 км, но сложно найти ключевую цель. Относительно этого ничего не изменилось, потому что попадать в предметы всегда было относительно легко по сравнению с пониманием мини-карты.

Основное резюме: «Но Лемон, сидеть спокойно или с фланга в присутствии авианосца - плохая позиция». Да, с тех пор, как была введена переработка резюме, динамический игровой процесс подвергся очень суровому наказанию, или другими словами: возможность читать мини-карту и пользоваться ею. Предполагая, что вы знаете, о чем говорите, вы также понимаете, что мета снайперской стрельбы на 20 км - это единственное, что у нас осталось. Другими словами, стратегический геймплей постепенно удаляется.

Меня беспокоит то, что WarGaming до сих пор использует слово «стратегический», поэтому я надеюсь, что WarGaming будет так любезно объяснять мне, что такого стратегического в этой игре в настоящее время в высокоуровневом геймплее ... В рекламе WarGaming было где можно было навести и выстрелить в Ямато ...

Предложения по исправлению некоторых плохих решений по игровому балансу, чтобы вернуть стратегический игровой процесс:

• Линия RN BB: шанс нерфа огня на шанс обычного BB, включая премии.
• SN BB high tiers: толщина брони пояса нерфа.
• SN DD's: Обе линии имеют одинаковый игровой процесс.
• Тяжёлые крейсеры высокого уровня SN: уменьшены углы пробития.
• SAP: Углы проникновения Nerf.
• PAN EU DD: удалите узкий спред и добавьте обычный широкий спред.
• KM BB's: дайте им такой же dcp / ремонтный тусовщик, как Масса.
• Носители: заменить бронебойное вооружение на фугасное.
• Носители: убрать пятнистость снаряжения истребителя.
• Перевозчики: познакомьте с механиком-топливом.
• Носители: увеличивают урон альфа-удара.
• Носители: нормальный урон от огня (=> таким образом также удаление автоматического DCP)
• Рузвельт: удалите его из игры и верните сталь.
• Снаряжение ПВО: вернуть панический эффект
• Завершите переделку AA; используйте свои данные и проверьте все корабли в этой игре. (приведен пример: MN DD не воспроизводятся при наличии CV и рядом с OP без CV)
• Карта: Эпицентр Северных вод; увеличить размер зон захвата (сейчас невозможно играть)

 

[Yedwy]

M8 all good suggestions, now I would interest you in an experiment, make your stats hidden for couple of weeks and play your normal flanking  positions and tell me what you observe about the CV pestering you...

[DFens_666]

37 minutes ago, LemonadeWarriorITA said:

So that is why I am reaching out to the forum, because perhaps someone can explain to me why WarGaming is making certain decisions.

 

I guess they want to appeal to the "casual gamer", you know, the one playing Facebook click games? You can milk money from those, but the game cant be overly complicated for them. Point+click is as far as it goes, cant have them use their brains on Points, time and objectives.

To me, thats exactly what has been happening for the last 2 years: WG successfully replaced those, who had an interest in WoWs with the braindead zombiehorde, who doesnt give a crap about anything. But to WG, it doesnt matter as long as they use their paychecks to buy all the crap WG is pooping out.

 

44 minutes ago, LemonadeWarriorITA said:

• SN high tier heavy cruisers: nerf improved penetration angles.
• SAP: Nerf penetration angles.

 

I dont think, the others need to get punished for Petro and Venezia.

Venezia needs to lose 1 turret, probably buff the reload a bit. Venezias issue is that extreme Alpha, which lets you pump out 15k on practically everything. I dont think, the others are OP at all, sure they are good in capable hands, because they know where to aim, even against dreadnought type BBs. Or just get rid of SAP for good, looking at Italian BBs, that would be a good thing anyway.

 

Tallinn and Riga arent that great in my book. Well, Tallinn is outright garbage. I think, not even Petro is anything special in randoms. In competetive, the combination is what makes it the number 1 pick. Easy fix? Remove their radars, rebalance some other stuff (normal dispersion f.e.) and i think that will work.

[fumtu]

9 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

I dont think, the others need to get punished for Petro and Venezia.

 

I agree.

 

9 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

Tallinn and Riga arent that great in my book. Well, Tallinn is outright garbage. I think, not even Petro is anything special in randoms. In competetive, the combination is what makes it the number 1 pick. Easy fix? Remove their radars, rebalance some other stuff (normal dispersion f.e.) and i think that will work.

 

WG should look into Petro survivability. It is too low in the water and its armour is just too good. IMO, it should be either risen somewhat or it armour should be nerfed, for example 30mm upper belt, and 35mm deck (same as Riga).

[lilgoth]

i would also put forth for consideration a radio jamming consumable, where you can prevent or delay the enemy carrier reporting your position for a few extra seconds as often against 'lesser skilled' Cv players the greater danger isnt the aircraft, but the Barrage of shells that arrive shortly afterwards

[GarrusBrutus]

- delete or rework epicentre gamemode since the playerbase is too pepega to understand it. 

- remove star saving in ranked, but less stars to Rank 1.

- making flooding great again

- hard cap of 1 cv per team

- make pve fun and engaging for every skill level

- make pve dynamic and non-repetitive 

- remove cvs from cbs

- FOR THE LOVE OF EVERYTHING THAT IS HOLY: MAKE BETTER TUTORIALS FOR NEW PLAYERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

[1MajorKoenig]

4 minutes ago, lilgoth said:

i would also put forth for consideration a radio jamming consumable, where you can prevent or delay the enemy carrier reporting your position for a few extra seconds as often against 'lesser skilled' Cv players the greater danger isnt the aircraft, but the Barrage of shells that arrive shortly afterwards

That is actually an interesting suggestion 

[WWDragon]

1 hour ago, LemonadeWarriorITA said:

• SN BB high tiers: nerf belt armor thickness.

Wow, so you think the CITADEL PINATA that are the Soviet Battleships have too much bet armor ...

Here is a hint ... its not the belt, get a shoot into their broadside and see then suddenly lose 70% HP if not downright explode.

[Captain_Newman]

6 minutes ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

That is actually an interesting suggestion 

 

Instead of the consumable I’d actually prefer it if spotting range by fighter was nerfed and a spotting delay for CV’s team mates was added (similar to the 4s radar spotting delay we have right now - apparently radar cruisers were too powerful but CV’s are fine lol).

 

OP, I agree with you, but WG seems interested only in removing the last bit of intelligence requirements from the thinking man’s action game. It’s really off putting, and I actually believe they’re beyond saving; what we need is a decent alternative game from a competitor company so we can jump ship and never look back.

[ColonelPete]

1 hour ago, LemonadeWarriorITA said:

Game balance

 

Game balance at tier 10 is shifting from a strategical game to basically a point and shoot game.

 

• Tactical position to hold key objective: you are now stuck due constant CV spotting and bomb drops.
• Tactical flanking: You are fine till you get spotted -> constant spotting & bomb drops.
• Brawling to gain a key objective: get HE spammed by battleships from 20km and constant bomb drops by a carrier.
• Sniping from 20 km: not any downsides, you might lose, you might win, at least you get to shoot the entire game.

 

• you do not have CV in every match and not in every CV match does the CV go for your side, yes, they can be annoying, but they can focus only one ship at a time
• see above
• when the enemy BB are at 20km, you do not need to brawl at key objectives
• your chances to lose are higher than your chances to win when sniping, lost too many matches because of snipers on my team

The winning team usually pushes and takes out the few enemy ships that dare to contest the caps. After they are gone, the snipers lack spotting and the pushing team has cover around the caps.

The main problem are the players who are afraid to get their ships paint scratched.

[Eikkuu]

Il y a 6 heures, LemonadeWarriorITA a dit :

So I am Lemon, I have been playing from closed beta on both EU and NA server, 50+ tier 10's, played a little competitive, played some tournaments and upon today I still play Random Battle's and Ranked Battle's.

Personally I get most joy from playing the game as strategically as possible. I like to put my ships in the perfect position to hold key areas to keep the points flowing leading me to a victory, while killing the right targets. Nowadays it is hard to find this feeling, even in Clan Battles.

 

Time moves on, changes happen and etcetera I understand, but what I don't understand is the decisions made by this game developer. So that is why I am reaching out to the forum, because perhaps someone can explain to me why WarGaming is making certain decisions.

 

So what is weird about the game?

 

Game balance

Game balance at tier 10 is shifting from a strategical game to basically a point and shoot game.

 

• Tactical position to hold key objective: you are now stuck due constant CV spotting and bomb drops.
• Tactical flanking: You are fine till you get spotted -> constant spotting & bomb drops.
• Brawling to gain a key objective: get HE spammed by battleships from 20km and constant bomb drops by a carrier.
• Sniping from 20 km: not any downsides, you might lose, you might win, at least you get to shoot the entire game.

 

The average server win rate is 48% and in the past months I have been playing with some kind of stats monitor. This showed me that it is easy for the average player to hit a target at 20km, but difficult to find the key objective. Regarding this nothing changed, because hitting stuff has always been relative easy compared to understanding the mini-map. 

CV main: "But Lemon, sitting still or flanking with a carrier present is bad positioning." Yes, since the introduction of the CV rework dynamic gameplay got punished very hard or in other words: being able to read the mini map and making use of it. Assuming you know what you are talking about you also realize the 20km sniping meta is the only thing we have left. In other words strategical gameplay is being removed bit by bit.

It bothers me that WarGaming is still using the word strategical, so I hope WarGaming would be so kind to explain to me what is so strategical about this game nowadays at high tier gameplay... Because right now it is starting to feel like this little ad WarGaming had where you could point and shoot at a Yamato...

 

Suggestions to fix some poor game balance decisions to bring back strategical gameplay:

• RN BB line: nerf fire chance to regular BB fire chance, including premiums.
• SN BB high tiers: nerf belt armor thickness.
• SN DD's: Both lines have the same gameplay.
• SN high tier heavy cruisers: nerf improved penetration angles.
• SAP: Nerf penetration angles.
• PAN EU DD's: remove narrow spread & add regular wide spread.
• KM BB's: give them the same dcp / repair party stuff like Massa.
• Carriers: change AP armament to HE armament.
• Carriers: Remove spotting by fighter consumable.
• Carriers: Introduce fuel mechanic.
• Carriers: Increase alpha strike damage.
• Carriers: normal fire duration (60s) (=> thus also removal of automatic DCP) 
• Roosevelt: remove it from the game and refund steel.
• Anti-aircraft defensive consumable: bring back panic effect
• Finish the AA rework; use your data and check all ships in this game. (example given: MN DDs are unplayable with CV present and near OP without CV)
• Map: Northern Waters EpiCenter; increase size of capture zones (unplayable right now)

 

Russian translation below:

  Révéler le contenu masqué

Итак, я - Лимон, я играл из закрытого бета-тестирования на серверах ЕС и Северной Америки, 50+ уровней 10, играл немного соревновательно, играл в некоторых турнирах, и сегодня я все еще играю в случайных и ранговых боях.

Лично мне больше всего нравится играть в игру настолько стратегически, насколько это возможно. Мне нравится ставить свои корабли в идеальное положение, чтобы удерживать ключевые области, чтобы очки текли, ведущие меня к победе, при этом убивая правильные цели. Сейчас такое чувство сложно найти даже в клановых боях.

Время идет, происходят изменения и так далее. Я понимаю, но не понимаю решений, принятых этим разработчиком игры. Вот почему я обращаюсь к форуму, потому что, возможно, кто-нибудь может объяснить мне, почему WarGaming принимает определенные решения.

Так что же странного в игре?

Баланс игры

Игровой баланс на уровне 10 переходит от стратегической игры к игре типа «наведи и стреляй».

Тактическая позиция для удержания ключевой цели: теперь вы застряли из-за постоянного обнаружения CV и сбрасывания бомб.
Тактический фланг: с вами все в порядке, пока вас не заметят -> постоянное обнаружение и сбрасывание бомб.
Сражайтесь, чтобы достичь ключевой цели: получить спам ОН с линкоров с 20 км и постоянное сбрасывание бомб с авианосца.
Снайперская стрельба с 20 км: никаких минусов, вы можете проиграть, вы можете выиграть, по крайней мере, вы можете стрелять всю игру.

Средний процент побед на сервере составляет 48%, и в последние месяцы я играл с каким-то монитором статистики. Это показало мне, что среднему игроку легко поразить цель на 20 км, но сложно найти ключевую цель. Относительно этого ничего не изменилось, потому что попадать в предметы всегда было относительно легко по сравнению с пониманием мини-карты.

Основное резюме: «Но Лемон, сидеть спокойно или с фланга в присутствии авианосца - плохая позиция». Да, с тех пор, как была введена переработка резюме, динамический игровой процесс подвергся очень суровому наказанию, или другими словами: возможность читать мини-карту и пользоваться ею. Предполагая, что вы знаете, о чем говорите, вы также понимаете, что мета снайперской стрельбы на 20 км - это единственное, что у нас осталось. Другими словами, стратегический геймплей постепенно удаляется.

Меня беспокоит то, что WarGaming до сих пор использует слово «стратегический», поэтому я надеюсь, что WarGaming будет так любезно объяснять мне, что такого стратегического в этой игре в настоящее время в высокоуровневом геймплее ... В рекламе WarGaming было где можно было навести и выстрелить в Ямато ...

Предложения по исправлению некоторых плохих решений по игровому балансу, чтобы вернуть стратегический игровой процесс:

• Линия RN BB: шанс нерфа огня на шанс обычного BB, включая премии.
• SN BB high tiers: толщина брони пояса нерфа.
• SN DD's: Обе линии имеют одинаковый игровой процесс.
• Тяжёлые крейсеры высокого уровня SN: уменьшены углы пробития.
• SAP: Углы проникновения Nerf.
• PAN EU DD: удалите узкий спред и добавьте обычный широкий спред.
• KM BB's: дайте им такой же dcp / ремонтный тусовщик, как Масса.
• Носители: заменить бронебойное вооружение на фугасное.
• Носители: убрать пятнистость снаряжения истребителя.
• Перевозчики: познакомьте с механиком-топливом.
• Носители: увеличивают урон альфа-удара.
• Носители: нормальный урон от огня (=> таким образом также удаление автоматического DCP)
• Рузвельт: удалите его из игры и верните сталь.
• Снаряжение ПВО: вернуть панический эффект
• Завершите переделку AA; используйте свои данные и проверьте все корабли в этой игре. (приведен пример: MN DD не воспроизводятся при наличии CV и рядом с OP без CV)
• Карта: Эпицентр Северных вод; увеличить размер зон захвата (сейчас невозможно играть)

 

 

Nice work and suggestions ! Can l add a suggestion, "Stop putting 430mm+ BB for our poor cruisers been bullying by all those overmatch" ? 

 

[Humorpalanta]

2 hours ago, LemonadeWarriorITA said:

 

• RN BB line: nerf fire chance to regular BB fire chance, including premiums. 2
• SN BB high tiers: nerf belt armor thickness. 3
• SN DD's: Both lines have the same gameplay. 4
• SN high tier heavy cruisers: nerf improved penetration angles. 8
• SAP: Nerf penetration angles. 6
• PAN EU DD's: remove narrow spread & add regular wide spread. 5
• KM BB's: give them the same dcp / repair party stuff like Massa. 7
• Carriers: change AP armament to HE armament.
• Carriers: Remove spotting by fighter consumable.
• Carriers: Introduce fuel mechanic. 1
• Carriers: Increase alpha strike damage.
• Carriers: normal fire duration (60s) (=> thus also removal of automatic DCP) 
• Roosevelt: remove it from the game and refund steel.
• Anti-aircraft defensive consumable: bring back panic effect
• Finish the AA rework; use your data and check all ships in this game. (example given: MN DDs are unplayable with CV present and near OP without CV)
• Map: Northern Waters EpiCenter; increase size of capture zones (unplayable right now)

 

Russian translation below:

 

Hehe I just love how you translated it to russian XD

 

Also would like to add a couple of things here:

 - Biggest problem we have now currently: Stupid CV Rework and overmatch sniping BBs which ignore the armor and just eff you even if you tried to play tactically. 

So here is what I think:

 

1: CVs are terrible right now. Remove the plane constructing and add a maximum amount like always has been. Add a maximum distance how far the planes can get away from the mothership. Auto DCP is ok or not i don't care but the time of being active should be nerfed hard. This way the could be balanced (in a way). Even different airplanes or different types of airplanes could have different max range. For example rocket planes with a minimal distance so they would be for self defence against DDs not killing them on the other side of the map. Like 12 km range. (Adjustable. Just think about the base suggestion first.)

2: RN BBs are not overpowered. They are balanced nicely. They have less alpha potential but more of a DoT type of ships and I think it is good. Brings some difference in playstyle. Even Conqkek isn't that powerful unless you are a very good player. But to which ship this isn't true? Premiums on the other hand... Thunderer could be nerfed. Maybe nerf the range so it has to pay for its strength. But I would like this to lose the overmatch mechanic. Nelson also is interesting. A bit too strong but if they nerf it wouldn't be balanced. Maybe reload nerf?

3: SN BBs: They are not that strong except ofc Kremlin. Either make the citadel reachable or lose armor to be able to hurt by HE. The others are fine. They can be easily citadelled. They are only strong bow on. Maybe the T7 can get a nerf. Rudder maybe?

4: Funny how originally Neutrashimy was to be a tech tree ship for a more torpboat style of play and the TX version is still in development hell and not released. I wonder when the second full line of SN DDs will come for torping with a tech tree Neutra. I MEMBER!

5: I think Pan EU DDs are fine. The premiums are a bit OP and could be nerfed but the tech tree line is fine.

6: SAP is OP on T9 and T10 but atrociously useless below that. They should buff their torps. Reload and speed both. T9 is actually feeling fine. Not too strong not too weak. Venezia can lose the better benetration angles and should be fine.

7: Understandable but in that case lose 1 heal otherwise they would be OP.

8: Petro can be nerfed. Moskva can be nerfed. Others are in fine state and are balanced. Petro need to be higher in the water. Moskva can lose reload.

 

[fumtu]

17 minutes ago, Humorpalanta said:

Funny how originally Neutrashimy was to be a tech tree ship for a more torpboat style of play and the TX version is still in development hell and not released. I wonder when the second full line of SN DDs will come for torping with a tech tree Neutra. I MEMBER!

 

That second line was intended to finish with the missile DD, Kildin class. Smely (present in the game as Siliwangi) and Kotlin classes were also supposed to be there. I doubt that WG will release tech tree Neustra as:

1. it was one kind off DD
2. there is a very similar Kotlin class which could be used instead

 

[1MajorKoenig]

1 minute ago, fumtu said:

 

That second line was intended to finish with the missile DD, Kildin class. Smely (present in the game as Siliwangi) and Kotlin classes were also supposed to be there. I doubt that WG will release tech tree Neustra as:

1. it was one kind off DD
2. there is a very similar Kotlin class which could be used instead

 

Yes and as missiles are shelved indefinitely for now they used the hulls for other purposes.

I am curious what will happen to Kildin though?

[fumtu]

1 minute ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

I am curious what will happen to Kildin though?

 

Just like subs, missiles could come one day in the WoWs as seems like for WG "never" means same as "not now but if we need more money". Kildin class main weapon were anti-ship missiles and it could never be used as classic gunboat or torpedoboat as it does not have neither of them in sufficient amount or form, only 57mm AA mouns and 2x2 torps. But it is basically a Kotlin class with missiles so WG is not losing much with not including it for now as they have Kotlin class available instead, but if they start to add more modern ships, as they suggested that they might do with time, Kildin class could reappear.

[invicta2012]

1 hour ago, MyAngelAkagi said:

Nice work and suggestions ! Can l add a suggestion, "Stop putting 430mm+ BB for our poor cruisers been bullying by all overmatch" ? 

Agreed. Far too many big gun ships, too much overmatch. We need more realistic BB lines with 406mm max calibre and fewer gimmick ammo types. How about rewarding good aim? 

[Karasu_Browarszky]

Since all but one map contain rocks and even more rocks, their positions on the map being fixed, certain elements in the player base prefer to use a fix template playing these battles. All of this can only result in very stale, non-dynamic play. The Ocean is the only map really suited for tactical engagements, because it contains no fixed positions, the pace of the engagement and tactics will depend on variables that cannot be entirely fixed, though individual players might still prefer certain course of action over others.

 

The Ocean is both underrated and reviled because the majority of the player base prefer fixed template play over dynamic tactics.

[ColonelPete]

2 minutes ago, Karasu_Hidesuke said:

Since all but one map contain rocks and even more rocks, their positions on the map being fixed, certain elements in the player base prefer to use a fix template playing these battles. All of this can only result in very stale, non-dynamic play. The Ocean is the only map really suited for tactical engagements, because it contains no fixed positions, the pace of the engagement and tactics will depend on variables that cannot be entirely fixed, though individual players might still prefer certain course of action over others.

 

The Ocean is both underrated and reviled because the majority of the player base prefer fixed template play over dynamic tactics.

Even on Ocean the positions are fixed. Most people go for the borders, because going for the middle without cover gets you into crossfire at Tier X.

Since most teams do not have balanced flanks, most of the time the battle results in a race around the middle.

[Karasu_Browarszky]

1 minute ago, ColonelPete said:

Even on Ocean the positions are fixed. Most people go for the borders, because going for the middle without cover gets you into crossfire at Tier X.

Since most teams do not have balanced flanks, most of the time the battle results in a race around the middle.

 

The Spawn positions are fixed, but as there are no islands to block LoS, play is more open for tactical advantages, or blunders. As I said, some players would do the exact same thing every time but, then again, all the games are the same when it comes to spawn positions and lineup, the thing you couldn't know for certain is who goes where after the battle starts. You can assume their DD's will go for caps, or for the flanks. You should assume that the rest of them will support DD's and the DD's themselves will spot for their team and screen against enemy DD attacks.

 

I admit, that no map or game mode allows for strategic play, but that really isn't what this game is set out to do. We do not have extended campaign modes that take place across actual oceans. What we have is a potential for some dynamic engagements within the limits of the game mechanics (and undersized maps on the higher tiers). The problem is, we aren't even getting that IMO.

[ColonelPete]

14 minutes ago, Karasu_Hidesuke said:

 

The Spawn positions are fixed, but as there are no islands to block LoS, play is more open for tactical advantages, or blunders. As I said, some players would do the exact same thing every time but, then again, all the games are the same when it comes to spawn positions and lineup, the thing you couldn't know for certain is who goes where after the battle starts. You can assume their DD's will go for caps, or for the flanks. You should assume that the rest of them will support DD's and the DD's themselves will spot for their team and screen against enemy DD attacks.

 

8/10 battles on Ocean end up like I explained.

The only real change comes when one team is too afraid to go forward at all. Then they get encircled and crushed.

[159Hunter]

4 hours ago, GarrusBrutus said:

- FOR THE LOVE OF EVERYTHING THAT IS HOLY: MAKE BETTER TUTORIALS FOR NEW PLAYERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

Are you implying they already made tutorials? 

 

But yeah: EDUCATE YOUR ******** PLAYERBASE.

[Karasu_Browarszky]

20 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

8/10 battles on Ocean end up like I explained.

The only real change comes when one team is too afraid to go forward at all. Then they get encircled and crushed.

 

There's not much else you can expect with a fixed map size, in most situations it does not pay to go against a stronger enemy (though sometimes it does). I admit, in the long run even that can become boring, but that's already more of a problem with the game mechanics than lack of dynamic play.

[Itwastuesday]

Buff several CA extremities armor to 32mm. Like imagie playing Zao in this day and age

[hypsar]

with all your ides you should point out and paint red where is opportunity to make money and then send it somehow to malikh is st petersburg ... (i hope he can read english but im not sure or the translate it into russian)

currently lesta is just able to print out different loot boxes (apparently they have learned how to set drop rate close to 0) and few unimaginative prem ships (ctrl c > ctrl v with minor adjustments)

it has really become pathetic

[ColonelPete]

1 hour ago, Karasu_Hidesuke said:

 

There's not much else you can expect with a fixed map size, in most situations it does not pay to go against a stronger enemy (though sometimes it does). I admit, in the long run even that can become boring, but that's already more of a problem with the game mechanics than lack of dynamic play.

The enemy has ships of the same Tier. There is NO excuse to stay back from the start.