Will German BBs be Buffed to Compensate for losing their Trademark Ability ?

[Sunleader]

With the Commander Skill Rework. Every BB in the Game will have the Ability to be Semi Efficient with Secondaries and have Decent Range on Secondaries.

At the same time. Secondaries will become less Effective due to the lack of Accuracy Upgrades.

 

German and French BBs meanwhile only get a Minimal Range Buff.

In Fact the before the Rework. A German T10 BB Secondaries had a bit over 20% more Range than the Standard. 11.09 km vs 8.64 km. Now however the Difference is supposed to be moved to 12.5 km vs 11 km. That would mean their Advantage is now just a little above 10%

 

Moreover. German BBs have always Paid for their Secondaries by having less Powerful and less Accurate Main Guns.

And in addition the Reduced Advantage in Secondaries to other Ships which have not Paid for the Secondaries by having better Main Weapons. The Secondaries itself are also made less Efficient by the Accuracy Skills Removal.

 

 

In Total it is pretty easy to See that this Rework of Secondaries will be a Net Nerf to German Battleships.

 

 

Is there any Plans to Compensate German BBs for this Loss of their Trademark Ability ?

 

[lup3s]

 

 

[The_Chiv]

So the GK was my first live t10 ship. Des Moines was my first t10 in both alpha and Beta., I love the concept of just love the concept of it as it made all those wonderful guns not be completely useless. Seriously these ships have DD guns slapped all over them but they are all limited to 5km, Then came Da German BBS. I LOVED IT.

 

I want to say yes they will have to address the deficiency of secondary builds, but this will only happen after data is accumulated and endless complaint post on here and reddit. Even then there is still a far more sinister issue within the BB skill tree that will relegate secondary to useless. SNIPER. That skill should not exist and will continue to turn a game where team play should matter into  the cluster F we have been watching it devolve into. Now WG will probably rebuke this complaint that almost every one has about said skill by pointing out that if players are back line sniping then they become easy targets for cv players. Yes nothing screams balance like defending a skill the is does not promote team work by pointing out it makes the job of a cv player 10x easier.

 

Either way this rework is pretty much a coffin nail for secondary builds.

[HARBINGER_OF_SKULLS]

The idea behind 2ndaries was to be able to defend against small surface combatants like torpedo boats / destroyers at close to medium ranges.

Increasing the range and reducing available accuracy buffs for the inherently horrible accuracy (as WG chose to implement them, which already defies the purpose) means that 2ndaries won't be able to do their job anymore.

[Saipan_2501]

Russian bb's cant touch german bb's secondary wise, was only a matter of time until they were nerfed, totall killed off the german bb lines has this, may as well ust sell the lot of em and have done with it as they wont be competative in any way shape or form now

[VaranusKomodoensis]

Well, as a compensation they can always buff the AAA's hitpoints.

[Srle_Vigilante]

Short answer: No

 

Long answer: No they wont and they probably wont balance any of this becuase they are just rushing it out to live asap.

[1MajorKoenig]

@Sunleader - this time a fair point to be raised. Either range would need to be e significant gain (which it is not) or general accuracy needs to be better. Right now it looks like the skill will be making Secondaries obsolete.

 

As solutions I would propose on of these options:

 

- give German BBs Massa secondary formula - that way the German BBs keep the “secondary brawler” flavour 

 

- change the manual secondary skill to 50% better dispersion 

 

- or abandon all secondary fun Builds and give the German BBs the Russian main gun formula 

[lovelacebeer]

I very much doubt it unless WG see a marked drop in the performance of German BBs on their mighty spreadsheets, and even then it will take time for such data to be collected. 
 

In short don’t get your hopes up.

[SkollUlfr]

players: pls buff km secondaries so they still have there meme status

weegee: richthofen to get 180mm guns in 5x3 mounts.

[invicta2012]

5 hours ago, Sunleader said:

German and French BBs meanwhile only get a Minimal Range Buff.

German BBs still have heavier calibre secondaries with better alpha damage and HE armour penetration. And I believe they recently received a main battery accuracy buff?

 

I've never been that keen on secondary builds and have always felt that captain skills intended to buff smaller ship ROF and AA efficacy were being rather misused to provide "all around" firepower for Battleships and CVs. 

[Miscommunication_dept]

I just can’t see why anyone would spend 4 points in a 35% accuracy increase in secondaries. 60% improved accuracy was already a stretch.

Wargaming seem to be overestimating the effect of secondaries still firing at untargetted ships. 
 

Perhaps in testing, they will realise what a secondary nerf this is.

 

I doubt it!

[1MajorKoenig]

3 minutes ago, gopher31 said:

I just can’t see why anyone would spend 4 points in a 35% accuracy increase in secondaries. 60% improved accuracy was already a stretch.

Wargaming seem to be overestimating the effect of secondaries still firing at untargetted ships. 
 

Perhaps in testing, they will realise what a secondary nerf this is.

 

I doubt it!

No they certainly won’t 

 

No - seriously. Just ask yourself if you would build a German BB below T7 for Secondaries today 

[Sunleader]

1 minute ago, invicta2012 said:

German BBs still have heavier calibre secondaries with better alpha damage and HE armour penetration. And I believe they recently received a main battery accuracy buff?

 

I've never been that keen on secondary builds and have always felt that captain skills intended to buff smaller ship ROF and AA efficacy were being rather misused to provide "all around" firepower for Battleships and CVs. 

 

1.

Fun Fact. US Secondaries thanks to the Better Base Accuracy are currently Superior to German ones.

The thing with Caliber is. If you dont Hit anything. You dont do Damage. Thanks to that. US Secondaries on Massa and Georgia Secs despite having less Penetration and less Alpha than Bismarck and FdG/Pommern Secondaries. Are Superior to the German ones.

Currently. German Secondaries are only useful if they use the Manual Secondary Skill and thus get a Massive Accuracy Buff.

 

This is by the way also why Graf Zeppelin Secondaries are so Incredible Powerful.

GZ has a Massive Accuracy Buff for its Secondaries by Default. Thanks to which its Secondaries are really Fearsome.

 

I actually wonder if the New Secondary Base Ranges are for all Ships or just for BBs. The Devblog just says Ships and doesnt Specifically say BBs after all. And CVs still get the Option for Secondary Skills. Which means that if these New Base Ranges Apply to all Ships. GZ would become Capable of going for 11.5km Secondaries.

And GZ Base Accuracy is basicly as Good as German BBs with the Manual Secondary Skill. Which means for GZ this will Constitute a massive Buff.

 

Then again. It is also Possible that WG will use this Chance to Just Nerf GZ entirely into Oblivion by removing the Base Accuracy on its Secondaries and thus Finally take away the last Good thing GZ has going for itself....

 

2.

Yes. German BBs received a Slight Buff to Accuracy. They went from Worst Dispersion to Second Worst Dispersion. Due to which they are basicly still worst Dispersion tough. Because the Previous Worst Disappeared....

And that was mostly due to German BBs being Massively Underpowered anyways.

It doesnt Warrant further Nerfs to them. Nor does it Balance it out if German BBs lose one of their Primary Features.

 

3.

You may not be Inclined to use this kind of Build. But Coupled with the Hydro Search. It was Generally a Good Choice to have a Fighting Chance against Destroyers.

Which was extremely Importand when Pushing against Enemy Teams.

 

 

 

[Sunleader]

13 minutes ago, gopher31 said:

I just can’t see why anyone would spend 4 points in a 35% accuracy increase in secondaries. 60% improved accuracy was already a stretch.

Wargaming seem to be overestimating the effect of secondaries still firing at untargetted ships. 
 

Perhaps in testing, they will realise what a secondary nerf this is.

 

I doubt it!

 

Yep. 35% is pretty low. And really not worth the Points.

 

If this Hits without further Buffs to German Secondaries. Then the only Ships where Investing Points into this Skill would make sense. Would be in the US Premium BBs thanks to their Base Accuracy already being Better and thus still getting the Dispersion low enough to get good Hitrates on Cruisers and BBs.

For German BBs it will Generally make more sense to just not bother with the Accuracy Skill at all. And go for a Full Tank Build only investing the 3 Skill Points for the Additional Range as you have these 3 Skill Points over anyways.

 

At the same Time. As all Nations get much better Base Ranges. The Secondary Power that German BBs used to get when using a Tank Build. (Cause even then their Secondaries still had enough Range and Firepower to deal Damage to Close Range Targets) will now be Shared by all BBs and thus no longer provide any advantage to German BBs either.

 

Effectively. Secondary Build for anything but US Premium BBs will be Dead.

[DFens_666]

5 hours ago, Sunleader said:

Moreover. German BBs have always Paid for their Secondaries by having less Powerful and less Accurate Main Guns.

 

I thought they have worse mainguns because of their armor.

Because if your arguement would be right, playing german BBs without secondaries would make no sense - which is not correct. If you dont spec for secondaries, you have a very tanky platform with mediocre guns.

 

25 minutes ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

- or abandon all secondary fun Builds and give the German BBs the Russian main gun formula 

 

Would they also get a citadel then?

[RamboCras]

it's not only the German BBs, they get some extra range to compensate (which is useless cause in the new meta they can't hit the side of a barn with a shotgun) but what about the premium ship the Massachusetts?

 

Its secondaries are hit 2 x times by this change, they go from 11.3 to 10km and from 60% inc accuracy to 30%. All it has left now are the 18.4  km main guns. The ship is massively f*cked by this change.

 

What count's for the Kurf, Tirp, pomm, Odin also counts for Massa, Georgia, Ohio....

 

Perhaps we should all call this new release a Downgrade instead of an update?

 

[RamboCras]

4 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

 

I thought they have worse mainguns because of their armor.

Because if your arguement would be right, playing german BBs without secondaries would make no sense - which is not correct. If you dont spec for secondaries, you have a very tanky platform with mediocre guns.

 

 

Would they also get a citadel then?

 

yeah,  and then you play them like the Russians, US, French, Italian ships... and all BB gameplay becomes the same.

 

All we have left is sniping and burning....

[DFens_666]

1 minute ago, RamboCras said:

Its secondaries are hit 2 x times by this change, they go from 11.3 to 10km and from 60% inc accuracy to 30%.

 

Luckily, they dont nerf the range if they currently have more range than they indicated in the list.

 

2 minutes ago, RamboCras said:

All we have left is sniping and burning....

 

i guess thats our faith anyway. Since we already have tons of camping BBs, they will camp even harder the new BB-camp skill.

Maybe WG just doesnt care about this camping crap, because apparently on russian server they dont camp as much? Atleast when ive sometimes watched Flamu play on russian server, it seems less campy than what we have....

[invicta2012]

1 hour ago, Sunleader said:

1.

Fun Fact. US Secondaries thanks to the Better Base Accuracy are currently Superior to German ones.

The thing with Caliber is. If you dont Hit anything. You dont do Damage. Thanks to that. US Secondaries on Massa and Georgia Secs despite having less Penetration and less Alpha than Bismarck and FdG/Pommern Secondaries. Are Superior to the German ones.

Currently. German Secondaries are only useful if they use the Manual Secondary Skill and thus get a Massive Accuracy Buff.

Yes, but... they should offer a buff to secondary accuracy for specific BBs and lines via Equipment and Modules rather than through Captain skills. US BBs have their Main Battery modules like Artillery Plotting Room, give the KM ones their equivalent for secondaries. That way you can target and balance secondary accuracy/RoF rather than allowing the excessive cascade of buffs we currently have.

[1MajorKoenig]

1 hour ago, DFens_666 said:

Would they also get a citadel then?

They have one. It’s supposed to be their “strength” that it’s protected although a pretty useless strength. Unless the captain is completely braindead having a raised citadel is an absolute non-factor on BBs. Only exception where it matters: thin plating

[DFens_666]

12 minutes ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

They have one. It’s supposed to be their “strength” that it’s protected although a pretty useless strength. Unless the captain is completely braindead having a raised citadel is an absolute non-factor on BBs. Only exception where it matters: thin plating

 

Its not a useless feature once you get into brawling range. And sometimes you can also go broadside if you absolutely need to and wont get citadelled in the process.

Also lets not forget, most wows players are actually braindead so its a useful feature for them... making german BBs like russian BBs and not even give them that one downside seems pretty questionable to me.

[CptBarney]

Should give them witicha dispersion, that would actually negate the secondary nerf too be fair and reduce the skill down to 2 points or 3 with maybe an increase to range or hp like 10% to range or 25% to hp.

[1MajorKoenig]

24 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

Its not a useless feature once you get into brawling range.

Nope. Brawling tends to happen exclusively in later game stages - at least on the higher tiers (in the beginning of the match there is little chance for success you would even make it into brawl range). In later game stages Cross fires are usually no issue and unless you casually drive by your opponent - in which case you deserve to get blabbed - your citadel does matter jack 

 

Heck to make it extreme - there is no difference of you brawl in a Kii or in a Turpitz. It simply doesn’t matter - citadel wise. 
 

24 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

Also lets not forget, most wows players are actually braindead so its a useful feature for them

Ok you are saying a useful feature for complete ignorants... well ok. I give you that. 
 

24 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

making german BBs like russian BBs and not even give them that one downside seems pretty questionable to me.

Ok I wasn’t dead serious with the (ridiculous OP) Russian super dispersion suggestion. It was more to point out the stupidity of the change itself.   
 

I think the German BBs should keep their Flavour with the secondary guns. But I agree with the OP that there should be some sort of compensation for the loss of half the accuracy basically which will translate naturally into half the damage 

[Hopeless_Guppy]

So if we talk about the Tirpitz then, one famed for her secondaries, this is a straight up nerf to that ship,a premium at that too, same goes for the GZ's party trick of hammering DD's which get too close.

This is not good,and all those who are now rushing to get the Massachusetts before she is removed, a nerf on the way out, not good at all.