Fen Yang - and WG that has no clue what to do with it

[eliastion]

As Akizuki-lover I was thrilled to hear about a premium Akizuki, even though it was going to be a Chinese Pan-Asian version. I had my worries, of course - mainly because the first look at the stats suggested the ship to be quite noticeably overpowered. An option of def. AA sounded like a gimmick rather than a potential advantage but the Pan-Asian smoke seemed to synergize with Akizuki's dakka capacity a bit too well. I expected the ship to receive some pre-release nerfs or - if that didn't happen - to become infamously OP and then join the "removed from normal distribution" crowd.

 

Then came the changes. But what changes they were? Well, first they increased reload time by 33% (slightly offsetting this by damage increase) AND removed the special HE pen from IJN 100mm guns (bringing back the dreaded "my HE pens nothing without IFHE" mechanics). Following that, we get the newest changes - further increase in reload to 5.2s (now 73% worse than Akizuki), AP damage increased a bit and improved AP angles.

 

It seems like WG has no idea whatsoever what to do with the ship. What started as an OP premium Akizuki has now became some strange variation about British DDs - looking more like an inferior premium Lightning than a version of Akizuki, having lost every single strong point the latter had, aside from huge (for a DD of her tier) hp pool. I wonder who it is for at this point?

 

People who love Akizuki and Kitakaze? This ship doesn't have the dakka power defining these ships, her HE is a joke without IFHE and even with the skill it just becomes comparable with other DDs.

People who love to play with PA DWTs? This ship's DWTs aren't really exciting - they're Akizuki toprs that can't hit DDs (and I think it was the kind that misses cruisers as well? Not sure if I don't remember wrong.). Also, she carries very few of them - it's one 4-torp launcher, even if you use the great TRB to double the number, it's still a supplementary weapon at best.

The closest I can imagine is someone who really wanted a Jutland at t8. Only in this case it's a Jutland with much worse concealment, only 60% of her HE DPM, (and either much worse fire chance or no pen ability), 2/3 of AP DPM, no hydro, less torps (even after counting TRB as as an extra launcher...) that can't be single-launched AND can only hit a subset of targets... Ok, I spoke too soon, someone who loves the strengths of Jutland probably won't have much fun with current iteration of Fen Yang, even accounting for the latter being a tier lower

 

 

Seriously, I'm baffled. Not just because the ship seems pretty underwhelming, but because it just doesn't seem to have a selling point. She gave up all the Akizuki's strengths (aside, as already mentioned, from her healthpool) and while she did get a couple gimmicks in return, they don't really seem to build a consistent picture. But maybe I'm wrong? Maybe there's some niche for a slow, a bit lacking in concealment DD that must choose between sub-par DPM (IFHE and HE focus) or no DPM against angled target (focus on AP) but has many smokes and tanky hull to make her a uselessly plink-plinking enemies but hard to finish off pest? Can someone explain to me the appeal of the ship in her current state? At a glance - at least to me - it seems like a bit too much of a Meh Yang...

[El2aZeR]

3 minutes ago, eliastion said:

Seriously, I'm baffled.

 

You are thinking about this too intelligently.

Lower your IQ a bit to see what WG is thinking. Done? Alright, here we go:

You see, WG thinks that DFAA especially on DDs is an extremely effective consumable and as such requires a lot of downsides.

[Stormhawk_V]

Fen Yang: 'Look, I got defensive AA!'

Me: 'What did it cost?'

Fen Yang: 'Everything.'

[Captain_Newman]

9 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

Lower your IQ a bit to see what WG is thinking. Done? Alright, here we go:

You see, WG thinks that DFAA especially on DDs is an extremely effective consumable and as such requires a lot of downsides.

 

Thank you, reading that last sentence has indeed lowered my IQ quite effectively. It felt as if millions of my braincells suddenly cried out in terror, and were suddenly silenced. On the bright side, maybe I could get a job at WG's balancing department now that this made me "compatible"...

[FixCVs_Nautical_Metaphor]

Vor 3 Stunden, eliastion sagte:

I wonder who it is for at this point?

Morons who still give WG money, that's who.

Doubly so if the money buys them T8 carrier fodder.

There's one of those logging on to the premium shop every minute.

[HARBINGER_OF_SKULLS]

I happened across a "tester" of this thing... he fired his DWT at an enemy DD and was killed in a gunfight with that Kagero.

If this is the quality of the tests, than I know what to expect from the products.

[LemonadeWarriorITA]

WarGaming knowing how to balance a game? Lulz

[Yosha_AtaIante]

12 minutes ago, LemonadeWarriorITA said:

WarGaming knowing how to balance a game? Lulz

Do they need to know? Their game is catering to people who don't care. 

This forum exists only to give them a mine of salt for the lols. 

 

[Miscommunication_dept]

3 hours ago, HARBINGER_OF_SKULLS said:

I happened across a "tester" of this thing... he fired his DWT at an enemy DD and was killed in a gunfight with that Kagero.

If this is the quality of the tests, than I know what to expect from the products.

|I once came across an Asashio who launched 16 torps into destroyer smoke.....

 

 

[MixuS]

5 minutes ago, gopher31 said:

|I once came across an Asashio who launched 16 torps into destroyer smoke.....

 

 

More the norm than the exception on current playerbase I'm afraid.

[invicta2012]

@El2aZeR is spot on. WG has looked at Orkan and thought "People will accept less in a DD if it's from a particular nation". Orkan's gimmick is Radar. Fen Yang's is DFAA.

 

I can't see any reason to buy this, especially when Lo Yang already exists and is good. Tan Yang would have been better as a Tier VII (Kagero/Fubuki/DWT cross over, anyone? : https://www.navypedia.org/ships/taiwan/tai_dd_tanyang.htm).

[Captain_Newman]

52 minutes ago, gopher31 said:

|I once came across an Asashio who launched 16 torps into destroyer smoke.....

 

 

 

Just once? Asashio players who try to torp DD’s and cruisers aren’t the exception, they’re the norm. That’s been my observation, anyway.

[Stormhawk_V]

2 hours ago, Captain_Newman said:

Just once? Asashio players who try to torp DD’s and cruisers aren’t the exception, they’re the norm. That’s been my observation, anyway.

I once met an Asashio player who kept torping a smoked up RN CL. I told him that his torps can't hit this ship and his response was just: 'Why is that?'

[Yxkraft]

11 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

 

You are thinking about this too intelligently.

Lower your IQ a bit to see what WG is thinking. Done? Alright, here we go:

You see, WG thinks that DFAA especially on DDs is an extremely effective consumable and as such requires a lot of downsides.

This is also why the new american bb line is so underwhelming. A consumable that you use in at most 10-20% of games can make up for inferior guns and inferior repair party. 

[Cyclops_]

Nooo, the Fen Yang was on my to buy list, but not any more 😔😔

[GulvkluderGuld]

sad story but sadly must be true. had Fen Hang on the buy list too, akizuki being one of my favourite ships in the game. Was hoping it would turn into another kamikaze R if WG ever nerfed the aki. 

35 minutes ago, Yxkraft said:

This is also why the new american bb line is so underwhelming. A consumable that you use in at most 10-20% of games can make up for inferior guns and inferior repair party. 

the guns are fine (bar kansas), it's just the platform that sucks double time to compensate.

[HystericalAccuracy]

14 hours ago, eliastion said:

the first look at the stats suggested the ship to be quite noticeably overpowered.

Hence why I expected WG to bump it to T9 while leaving the stats untouched.

Wouldn´t be the first time they do this, and in this case I would prefer it to the undergoing nerf-orgy.

[Khaba_Gandalf]

Vor 14 Stunden, El2aZeR sagte:

You see, WG thinks that DFAA especially on DDs is an extremely effective consumable and as such requires a lot of downsides.

Most reasonable explanation, but there is another one that either work on its own or in combination with the defaa thesis. 

 

Chinese New year will get another sales event last year. So we are talking about bundles and (Premium) loot crates. Which needs stuff to fill them, but that stuff can't be too good. Because people may not end up paying full price for that ship. 

 

Also pretty sure on SEA there will be enough guys from Taiwan with grandpa's who served on that ship. For those it's all about the memory, who cares if its good. And if you can be lucky and get it from a loot box for "cheap", win win... 

 

Or possible third explanation :

 

No communist bias, the wrong China got that ship and you can't have filthy capitalist traitors have good stuff. 

[Panocek]

2 hours ago, Cyclops_ said:

Nooo, the Fen Yang was on my to buy list, but not any more 😔😔

Good guy WG saves you money to spend elsewhere 

 

And no, War Thunder isn't the alternative

[eliastion]

8 hours ago, VIadoCro said:

Hence why I expected WG to bump it to T9 while leaving the stats untouched.

Wouldn´t be the first time they do this, and in this case I would prefer it to the undergoing nerf-orgy.

That's an interesting idea - but even when it comes to nerfing, I can imagine it being done much better. It's not hard to grasp what makes Akizuki so popular... the nerfs (especially heavy ones) shouldn't be directed at the defining features. What COULD be easily done, however:

1. Finish the job on neutralizing her torpedo armament by forcing def. AA in place of TRB.

2. Remove or lower the number of charges on engine boost, emphasizing Akizuki's inherent god-awful speed

3. Lower hp a bit (the ship gets great smokes, make her more reliant on them)

A tiny nerf to DPM might be acceptable as well... but that's it: a TINY one. 10% increase in gun reload time would've been barely acceptable as a trade-off - any more than that and the defining feature of Akizuki is no longer there.

 

Instead they went for changes that completely change the ship. Even if they end up buffing it to the point where she would be viable, she won't be "a premium similar to Akizuki-line gunboats" anymore, but rather something close-ish to British DDs line. And the question is: why. What for. There already are ships like that and even if they are not enough - well, there are plenty British or originally-British-then-sold/given DDs that could be a basis for a new premium with British DD flavour.

[guy_incognito79]

Is this basically another DD tat has an identity crisis? Like the Z-35 and Z-44?

 

Why? :(

[Panocek]

12 minutes ago, eliastion said:

That's an interesting idea - but even when it comes to nerfing, I can imagine it being done much better. It's not hard to grasp what makes Akizuki so popular... the nerfs (especially heavy ones) shouldn't be directed at the defining features. What COULD be easily done, however:

1. Finish the job on neutralizing her torpedo armament by forcing def. AA in place of TRB.

2. Remove or lower the number of charges on engine boost, emphasizing Akizuki's inherent god-awful speed

3. Lower hp a bit (the ship gets great smokes, make her more reliant on them)

A tiny nerf to DPM might be acceptable as well... but that's it: a TINY one. 10% increase in gun reload time would've been barely acceptable as a trade-off - any more than that and the defining feature of Akizuki is no longer there.

 

Instead they went for changes that completely change the ship. Even if they end up buffing it to the point where she would be viable, she won't be "a premium similar to Akizuki-line gunboats" anymore, but rather something close-ish to British DDs line. And the question is: why. What for. There already are ships like that and even if they are not enough - well, there are plenty British or originally-British-then-sold/given DDs that could be a basis for a new premium with British DD flavour.

WG doesn't pick gimmick to the ship, they pick ship to the gimmick. They had perfect "US Akizuki" in shape of Somers at their hands. 8 fast reloading US guns, US smoke and three quad torp launchers could be loaded with short range prewar torps like on Farragut, to match her prewar AA suite. But nooo, WG had to press her into torpedoboat role, thus she gets late torpedoes, doubled gun reload and still her pre ww2 AA package because yes

[eliastion]

2 hours ago, Panocek said:

WG doesn't pick gimmick to the ship, they pick ship to the gimmick. They had perfect "US Akizuki" in shape of Somers at their hands. 8 fast reloading US guns, US smoke and three quad torp launchers could be loaded with short range prewar torps like on Farragut, to match her prewar AA suite. But nooo, WG had to press her into torpedoboat role, thus she gets late torpedoes, doubled gun reload and still her pre ww2 AA package because yes

Well, your answer still implies some planning on their part. But the gimmicks (aside from the now-removed Akizuki ones) only came after. The first iteration was basically Akizuki with PA characteristics (PA smokes, DWTs). So they had no gimmick to equip with a ship back then...

[Panocek]

3 hours ago, eliastion said:

Well, your answer still implies some planning on their part. But the gimmicks (aside from the now-removed Akizuki ones) only came after. The first iteration was basically Akizuki with PA characteristics (PA smokes, DWTs). So they had no gimmick to equip with a ship back then...

Akizuki with PA features and DFAA.

WG could easily forgo TRB or put DFAA in the same slot, instead doing their current shenanigans

[invicta2012]

9 hours ago, Panocek said:

WG doesn't pick gimmick to the ship, they pick ship to the gimmick. They had perfect "US Akizuki" in shape of Somers at their hands. 8 fast reloading US guns, US smoke and three quad torp launchers could be loaded with short range prewar torps like on Farragut, to match her prewar AA suite. But nooo, WG had to press her into torpedoboat role, thus she gets late torpedoes, doubled gun reload and still her pre ww2 AA package because yes

They probably think they've got enough US Tier VIII DDs. And they still have the Porter class to muck about with, although I don't see them balancing those well. There seems to be a different - and overexciteable - team responsible for balancing higher Tiers.