F.D.R. the fun killer

[S_h_i_v_a]

 

Watch the video, and don' thank the Devs for this.

 

 

[KillStealBoss]

After snowflakes there'll be a lot of FDRs...

[HaachamaShipping]

Who's really surprised that even with all its downsides, a ship that is limited in availability, thus more likely to be played by more experienced CV mains, that specialises in not having planes die and concentrating all its damage in fewer but more memorable strikes is lauded as OP? Frankly, FDR isn't ridiculous. It just showcases what CVs can be when not every second CV player outplays themselves on automated flak and with lacking aiming skills. Playing against an FDR isn't bad because it's such a great CV, but because the enemy CV player is much more likely to know what the hell they are doing instead of trying to AP bomb some Shima or get wiped by a Halland's defAA. And sure, FDR can ruin your day, but if I have the choice between getting bombed by an FDR or by a MvR or Haku, as long as I got a citadel, I prefer that FDR.

 

CVs are ridiculous, FDR is what the experience would be like when the class wasn't balanced around a lot of people being too dumb to play it. Now look forward to the T10 German reward CV, which will give you all the high-impact play options of an MvR with likely similar playerbase.

[S_h_i_v_a]

44 minuti fa, MacArthur92 ha scritto:

After snowflakes there'll be a lot of FDRs...

I still hope in Thunderer. 

[S_h_i_v_a]

31 minuti fa, HaachamaShipping ha scritto:

It just showcases what CVs can be when not every second CV player outplays themselves on automated flak and with lacking aiming skills. Playing against an FDR isn't bad because it's such a great CV, but because the enemy CV player is much more likely to know what the hell they are doing instead of trying to AP bomb some Shima or get wiped by a Halland's defAA.

 

4 Ships with good AA never shooting down a squadron? Unable to survive that long in my Lex.

[HaachamaShipping]

3 minutes ago, S_h_i_v_a said:

 

4 Ships with good AA never shooting down a squadron? Unable to survive that long in my Lex.

A Lexington is a T8 CV, FDR is T10. And just because planes don't die doesn't mean it's good. GK is arguably the hardest to kill BB if the player playing it isn't an idiot, but still you don't see it ever in anything competitive, unless it is being absolutely stupid hard to kill that is what you want from it. Similar deal with FDR. Its attack speed is poor, its accuracy is a joke, its plane restoration is terrible. In randoms, the biggest threat to a CV isn't that you can't kill things, it's that the enemy CV kills them faster or your team dies faster than you can kill the opponents. Compared to how fast an MvR or a Haku can kill ships or seriously cripple them (thus getting impact and close out the game), the FDR is poor, but most enemy CVs aren't exactly stellar, so even with a mediocre CV, you can likely outcompete an opponent. And sure, they will lose more planes. But they also regain more planes.

[WWDragon]

FDR  is not a team player, problem is that looking at the damage spike is ignoring that is FDR whole gimmick, it can reliable strike but Midway is a better team player CV due to simply being more of a presence and thus pressure.

 

In fact I would go as far to say Midway is a better CV because it can hit any target and do it more often, FDR is simply a damage farmer that sure sucks when it decides its you that are being farmed because it can reliable strike 2-3 times a BB but that is at the expense of being able to strike at targets on the map at any (potential) given time, like Midway, because of hangar space and regeneration dont allow to just send flights to handle red team breaking the line.

 

[Isoruku_Yamamoto]

2 hours ago, WWDragon said:

FDR  is not a team player, problem is that looking at the damage spike is ignoring that is FDR whole gimmick, it can reliable strike but Midway is a better team player CV due to simply being more of a presence and thus pressure.

 

In fact I would go as far to say Midway is a better CV because it can hit any target and do it more often, FDR is simply a damage farmer that sure sucks when it decides its you that are being farmed because it can reliable strike 2-3 times a BB but that is at the expense of being able to strike at targets on the map at any (potential) given time, like Midway, because of hangar space and regeneration dont allow to just send flights to handle red team breaking the line.

 

It is an emphasized version of enterprise vs kaga. Enterprise can do everything, kaga mainly does the alpha strike- but it does so harder & more relentless

[Isoruku_Yamamoto]

3 hours ago, HaachamaShipping said:

Who's really surprised that even with all its downsides, a ship that is limited in availability, thus more likely to be played by more experienced CV mains, that specialises in not having planes die and concentrating all its damage in fewer but more memorable strikes is lauded as OP? Frankly, FDR isn't ridiculous. It just showcases what CVs can be when not every second CV player outplays themselves on automated flak and with lacking aiming skills. Playing against an FDR isn't bad because it's such a great CV, but because the enemy CV player is much more likely to know what the hell they are doing instead of trying to AP bomb some Shima or get wiped by a Halland's defAA. And sure, FDR can ruin your day, but if I have the choice between getting bombed by an FDR or by a MvR or Haku, as long as I got a citadel, I prefer that FDR.

 

CVs are ridiculous, FDR is what the experience would be like when the class wasn't balanced around a lot of people being too dumb to play it. Now look forward to the T10 German reward CV, which will give you all the high-impact play options of an MvR with likely similar playerbase.

Aah yes, the AP bomber & skip bomber Werner Voss (i think) with no anti-DD options, just more to hurt armour xD

Well, id be more proud in FDR. Im still on the fence, but think i will get it. Still wonder where Shinano is though?!?

[WWDragon]

2 hours ago, Isoruku_Yamamoto said:

Aah yes, the AP bomber & skip bomber Werner Voss (i think) with no anti-DD options, just more to hurt armour xD

Well, id be more proud in FDR. Im still on the fence, but think i will get it. Still wonder where Shinano is though?!?

 

It never gone pass Beta, I think at the time a CV with a lot of reserves but few planes on deck and on squadron would not work because Shinano was meant to just have 18 A7M and 18 B7A with most of the space being reserved to up to 120 replacement aircraft for other carriers and land bases, a bit as 2/3 wings of fighters, 2/3 wing of dive bombers/torpedo bombers ... after the rework I guess it would have about ... 3 flights of 4 rocket planes, 2 flight of 4 TB and 1 flight of 4 DBs but this is at T10, regen would be a lot faster so small squadron size, small on deck squadron but able to keep sending then up, not sure if it would work but would work better that in the RTS days.

[HMS_Kilinowski]

I gotta say tonights Clan Brawl was not overly enjoyable, partially due to the FDR. The FDR is designed for massive strikes in a full 12v12 team. Now the Brawl forces a CV into a 5v5 format and many CV-players go for the FDR. The maps are still rather big for the small team size, so ships easily get isolated. That situation does not work well with a CV dropping 8 torps on you in a tight pattern. We even saw early CV-sniping attempts, which I am sure are quite successful.

Wiht CVs like FDR, CVs clearly break every format that is smaller than 12v12. Regular T10 Clan Battles with FDR will be a nightmare.

[HaachamaShipping]

7 hours ago, Isoruku_Yamamoto said:

Aah yes, the AP bomber & skip bomber Werner Voss (i think) with no anti-DD options, just more to hurt armour xD

Well, id be more proud in FDR. Im still on the fence, but think i will get it. Still wonder where Shinano is though?!?

Only lacks an anti-DD weapon if the skip bombs are unusable vs DDs. Could as well be though that it can hit skip bombs reliably, in which case, these are the same bombs Midway and FDR drop, just from the side and fewer of them on way faster planes. Given they replace pretty crappy torps, I'd not discount the CV. 

[Isoruku_Yamamoto]

5 hours ago, HMS_Kilinowski said:

I gotta say tonights Clan Brawl was not overly enjoyable, partially due to the FDR. The FDR is designed for massive strikes in a full 12v12 team. Now the Brawl forces a CV into a 5v5 format and many CV-players go for the FDR. The maps are still rather big for the small team size, so ships easily get isolated. That situation does not work well with a CV dropping 8 torps on you in a tight pattern. We even saw early CV-sniping attempts, which I am sure are quite successful.

Wiht CVs like FDR, CVs clearly break every format that is smaller than 12v12. Regular T10 Clan Battles with FDR will be a nightmare.

To be fair while im a fan of CVs, putting the reworked CVs in 5v5 is just dumb...

[Isoruku_Yamamoto]

6 hours ago, WWDragon said:

 

It never gone pass Beta, I think at the time a CV with a lot of reserves but few planes on deck and on squadron would not work because Shinano was meant to just have 18 A7M and 18 B7A with most of the space being reserved to up to 120 replacement aircraft for other carriers and land bases, a bit as 2/3 wings of fighters, 2/3 wing of dive bombers/torpedo bombers ... after the rework I guess it would have about ... 3 flights of 4 rocket planes, 2 flight of 4 TB and 1 flight of 4 DBs but this is at T10, regen would be a lot faster so small squadron size, small on deck squadron but able to keep sending then up, not sure if it would work but would work better that in the RTS days.

It would work now though, superKaga 

[ollonborre]

10 hours ago, HMS_Kilinowski said:

I gotta say tonights Clan Brawl was not overly enjoyable, partially due to the FDR. The FDR is designed for massive strikes in a full 12v12 team. Now the Brawl forces a CV into a 5v5 format and many CV-players go for the FDR. The maps are still rather big for the small team size, so ships easily get isolated. That situation does not work well with a CV dropping 8 torps on you in a tight pattern. We even saw early CV-sniping attempts, which I am sure are quite successful.

Wiht CVs like FDR, CVs clearly break every format that is smaller than 12v12. Regular T10 Clan Battles with FDR will be a nightmare.

Speaking of clan battles, the FDR is actually not "that" much more of a nightmare compared to the Haku or MVR. Yes it does deliver massive alpha, yes its planes are immortal. But it is such a slow ship in everything it does, from sending out new strikes, to wait between strikes and from just moving around the map.

 

In contrast the Haku and MVR can zip around the map much quicker, deliver strikes that still hurt pretty damn much, ignore fighter cover due to speed and can more easily finish of targets because of shorter attack cooldowns. It is still very very strong don't get me wrong, but the MVR and Hak can deliver more pressure in a CB enviroment. In randoms though playing the FDR is easy clubbing.

[HaachamaShipping]

52 minutes ago, ollonborre said:

In randoms though playing the FDR is easy clubbing.

Main issue I think in randoms is the same as in CB though. FDR is not responsive and FDR is not fast. It excels at one thing and that is running into blobs. Against ships not in a blob, other CVs can also be very devastating and they can much faster respond to a lone flanker. Meanwhile, what does blobbing in randoms result in? Well, while indeed, as a CV player, enemies blobbing up can be frustrating af, because you have to be more careful, if your team capitalises on the blob, the enemy basically cedes all map control and eventually loses. You don't get much for it, except a ton of spotting damage for likely keeping all the opponents spotted all the time, but you do win games. Thus, FDR in randoms is imo among the CVs least capable of punishing what is otherwise "good" gameplay for map control, while being least affected by typically game-losing behaviour on the opponents' part, in contrast to a MvR or Haku that excel at absolutely crapping at any attempt to make a game-winning play, while just sucking at doing much when the enemy is already throwing the game. Only reason I don't rate FDR lower is because Audacious exists, though in the defense of Audacious, it at least has decently fast planes. Just the payload often is questionable.

[ollonborre]

12 minutes ago, HaachamaShipping said:

Main issue I think in randoms is the same as in CB though. FDR is not responsive and FDR is not fast. It excels at one thing and that is running into blobs. Against ships not in a blob, other CVs can also be very devastating and they can much faster respond to a lone flanker. Meanwhile, what does blobbing in randoms result in? Well, while indeed, as a CV player, enemies blobbing up can be frustrating af, because you have to be more careful, if your team capitalises on the blob, the enemy basically cedes all map control and eventually loses. You don't get much for it, except a ton of spotting damage for likely keeping all the opponents spotted all the time, but you do win games. Thus, FDR in randoms is imo among the CVs least capable of punishing what is otherwise "good" gameplay for map control, while being least affected by typically game-losing behaviour on the opponents' part, in contrast to a MvR or Haku that excel at absolutely crapping at any attempt to make a game-winning play, while just sucking at doing much when the enemy is already throwing the game. Only reason I don't rate FDR lower is because Audacious exists, though in the defense of Audacious, it at least has decently fast planes. Just the payload often is questionable.

One thing to consider when rating the FDR is something that already other CV's can do, but the FDR does it, easier maybe? And that is spotting. Because of the downtime you loiter a lot around the target area and the blobs. Other CV's can do this as well sure with fighters and what not, but the FDR does it constantly and better because the planes can't so easily be destroyed. Due to this due to this my spotting damage in the FDR is 20-30% higher than in my other tier 10 CV's which is not an insignificant amount, and having most of their team spotted for longer is just beneficial for your team.

[HaachamaShipping]

34 minutes ago, ollonborre said:

One thing to consider when rating the FDR is something that already other CV's can do, but the FDR does it, easier maybe? And that is spotting. Because of the downtime you loiter a lot around the target area and the blobs. Other CV's can do this as well sure with fighters and what not, but the FDR does it constantly and better because the planes can't so easily be destroyed. Due to this due to this my spotting damage in the FDR is 20-30% higher than in my other tier 10 CV's which is not an insignificant amount, and having most of their team spotted for longer is just beneficial for your team.

Yes, though keep in mind, you spot most of their team if most of their team is in the same corner. Otherwise you spot the same part of their team, just for longer. And when it comes to going out to spot a critical target, again, faster planes are better.

[KillStealBoss]

23 hours ago, S_h_i_v_a said:

I still hope in Thunderer. 

Thunderer doesn't have the AA to stop the FDR.

[HaachamaShipping]

1 hour ago, MacArthur92 said:

Thunderer doesn't have the AA to stop the FDR.

I think he hopes people will opt for getting Thunderer instead, which imo is a realistic hope, as Thunderer leaves shop, is easier to get and many people just cannot be bothered to play CV, while Thunderer is a BB, something most people can play.

[WWDragon]

6 hours ago, HaachamaShipping said:

I think he hopes people will opt for getting Thunderer instead, which imo is a realistic hope, as Thunderer leaves shop, is easier to get and many people just cannot be bothered to play CV, while Thunderer is a BB, something most people can play.

Thunderer is Coal, FDR is Steel ... they dont compete for resources and I dont think people will use Steel to get Thunderer as its a much harder to obtain currency, Sommer is the Steel ship that is leaving that makes one wonder exactly what kind of vodka they been drinking lately.

 

 

[KillStealBoss]

2 hours ago, WWDragon said:

Thunderer is Coal, FDR is Steel ... they dont compete for resources and I dont think people will use Steel to get Thunderer as its a much harder to obtain currency, Sommer is the Steel ship that is leaving that makes one wonder exactly what kind of vodka they been drinking lately.

 

 

I know you won't believe me - but some people convert the small amount of the steel they get here and there, to get a coal ship. Yes. 

[VenividiviciNL]

Sorry to say, but after reading all above mentioned comments and having my own experience as none CV player I foresee that Clan Battles/Brawls and Ranked (sprints) will be a dying mode as many players as myself don't have any fun playing anymore these modes. Randoms ok, but the CV's are the game changer, whether you are a CV main or a forced CV player to meet the mode requirements.

 

The mechanics are broken and what tactics are involved? None, other than to devastate as soon possible any ship a CV encounters on its own. Maybe I am repeating myself but before 0.8.0 every plane lost during battle was not regained after some time, but remained lost. If you played stupidly you were out of planes within minutes. Now you wait some time and jay.....you have your planes back.

 

Spotting mechanics were in the old days not correct, but still aren't today: consumable fighters have taken over that role for a minute or so, followed by the strike planes. What a fun for all involved, including the CV players (/off sarcasme).

 

I am not against CV's as I used to play them myself till 0.8.0, but they determine the outcome of the game more as it should be and that is not correct as it was one of the reasons why 0.8.0 was introduced.

 

Soooo, enjoy the CV part in the mentioned modes for the time you are encountering players who are willing to get harrassed. It will be fewer and fewer to my opinion......... 

[S_h_i_v_a]

11 ore fa, HaachamaShipping ha scritto:

I think he hopes people will opt for getting Thunderer instead, which imo is a realistic hope, as Thunderer leaves shop, is easier to get and many people just cannot be bothered to play CV, while Thunderer is a BB, something most people can play.

 

2 ore fa, MacArthur92 ha scritto:

I know you won't believe me - but some people convert the small amount of the steel they get here and there, to get a coal ship. Yes. 

 

I don't have enough steel for anything, got my first T10 ship only 3 weeks ago. 

Considering that Thunderer is announced to leave armory, i hope people focus on that one. I'm out even here, have actually only 80k coal and cannot do more than 2400 daily.

So probably my first  T10 coal will be Moskva or Salem.

[HaachamaShipping]

1 minute ago, S_h_i_v_a said:

 

 

I don't have enough steel for anything, got my first T10 ship only 3 weeks ago. 

Considering that Thunderer is announced to leave armory, i hope people focus on that one. I'm out even here, have actually only 80k coal and cannot do more than 2400 daily.

So probably my first  T10 coal will be Moskva or Salem.

Not like we really need more Thunderers either. It isn't a CV, but certainly not without its own issues.