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averof_warrior

harugumo commander build

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Depends on if you want to penetrate 32 mm BB armour or not. I don't own the Harugumo myself, but with her detection and lack of maneuverability I'd be more cautious about using her as a DD hunter or closer to the front lines (caps etc.), at which point the value of RPF drops quite a bit.
All in all I'd say it depends on what role you intend to play her as.
If you're planning to farm/pressure heavier targets like BBs, go IFHE, and if you plan on primarily hunting "high value targets" like DDs, go for RPF.
Though she does seem more suited for the former role, and less so for the latter.
Personally I do pick fights (and tend to win) close range fights with Harugumo in my Daring/Småland, even though the initial health pool and raw HE dpm favours the Harugumo, simply because I have a concealment advantage that lets me ambush her more easily, and torps restricting her movement at close range.

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The Haruguno excels in HE spamming. Play this ship like a small cruiser with smoke.But be aware when positioning your ship that the Harugumo is clumsy and smokes are torp magnets. This DD is no cap contester at the start of a match generally. But of course this depends alot on team composition and player skill.

 

I would recommend:

(1) PM or PT (depend on what you prefer)

(2) LS, AR

(3) SE, BFT

(4) IFHE, AFT

 

With BFT and AFT you boost your DPM and you can shot over longer distances helping to survve. And IFHE helps alot with penning 32mm plantings. Because of the high RPM the debuff through IFHE in fire chance is neglectable.

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You can make a case for skipping IFHE and AFT and rangemod on kitakaze and technically akizuki if you fully commit to contesting caps and hunting DDs in them. I made that case, it's a difficult case to make as IFHE is extremely valuable on these ships, I can't tell you how often I sit there with only a battleship to farm and I wish I had IFHE.

 

For Harugumo, you can't make this case, you play that thing like a light cruiser without citadel and you make battleships regret every decision they made in the last 5 minutes as they die to a thousand cuts.

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3 hours ago, Hirohito said:

Depends on if you want to penetrate 32 mm BB armour or not. I don't own the Harugumo myself, but with her detection and lack of maneuverability I'd be more cautious about using her as a DD hunter or closer to the front lines (caps etc.), at which point the value of RPF drops quite a bit.
All in all I'd say it depends on what role you intend to play her as.
If you're planning to farm/pressure heavier targets like BBs, go IFHE, and if you plan on primarily hunting "high value targets" like DDs, go for RPF.
Though she does seem more suited for the former role, and less so for the latter.
Personally I do pick fights (and tend to win) close range fights with Harugumo in my Daring/Småland, even though the initial health pool and raw HE dpm favours the Harugumo, simply because I have a concealment advantage that lets me ambush her more easily, and torps restricting her movement at close range.

in close range with haragumo fight you are dead any dd you have

 

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2 hours ago, averof_warrior said:

in close range with haragumo fight you are dead any dd you have

No, just no. Your PR ist orange, which means that there is room for improvements. A surprisingly appearing Harugumo is dealdy for other DDs, but never a sure win. 

 

But, go ahead. Make your own experiences...

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There are two ways to build Harugumo. As a DD with CE or as a minicruiser without CE.

 

Maximum versatility build (get engine boost mod for semi-permanent maneuverability boost)

1) PM

2) LS and AR

3) SE and BFT

4) IFHE and CE

 

Minicruiser build with variations (can include Legendary):

1) PM

2)LS and AR

3) SE and BFT/DE (or SI for extra smoke and speed boost)

4) IFHE and either a) AFT or b) DE/BFT and a tier 1 skill or c) Legendary mod and probably, CE to compensate for the concealment loss (havn't tried this yet)

 

Personally, I'm not a fan of gimping my DDs versatility unnecessarily by taking up a DD slot with a minicruiser, which means taking CE and hunting DDs. 

- AFT in my opinion is near useless on IJN Gunboats. Shells lose speed so fast, even a bowtanking BB is tough to hit at 12 km base range, let alone a moving one. Extra range is not worth the points. 

- Mount an Engine Boost mod for 40% extended duration. It's a life-saver vs torps and makes Harugumo maneuverability quite similar to Kitakaze while it is active.

- The only real question is whether to take BFT or DE with IFHE or give up IFHE and take both DE and BFT. Personally i find 32 mm pen far to important to farm 30 mm cruisers to give it up for a better fire chance vs BBs who has the hp to just retreat.

 

6 hours ago, NikolayKuznetsov said:

You can make a case for skipping IFHE and AFT and rangemod on kitakaze and technically akizuki if you fully commit to contesting caps and hunting DDs in them. I made that case, it's a difficult case to make as IFHE is extremely valuable on these ships, I can't tell you how often I sit there with only a battleship to farm and I wish I had IFHE.

 

For Harugumo, you can't make this case, you play that thing like a light cruiser without citadel and you make battleships regret every decision they made in the last 5 minutes as they die to a thousand cuts.

My Harugumo with engine boost mod mounted begs to differ.

 

Also IFHE is far more important for CA farming (30 mm sections) than BBs.

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I'm starting to doubt IFHE myself. I can hit 200 shells on soviet cruiser and do 30k damage and a fire so... Yay? Probably respeccing something different when the commander skill rework hits.

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5 hours ago, GulvkluderGuld said:

Personally i find 32 mm pen far to important to farm 30 mm cruisers to give it up for a better fire chance vs BBs who has the hp to just retreat.

What? Don't all IJN gunboats get 30mm HE pen without IFHE?

 

IFHE is useful against BBs, esp. if they push your smoke and you start hitting the plating instead of the deck or superstructure.

But generally you want to take DE as well, to set (perma)fires, esp. after you've landed some torps.

 

I would take either AFT or the range module: the stock range is barely longer than Russian radar, and you want to make the most of your smokes and island cover.

 

Imho there are 3 main builds:

 

1) DD hunter: PM+LS+AR+BFT+SE+CE+RPF, reload module.

 

You go full knife-fighter and tactical awareness. Fires over IFHE. Soviet radar counters you hard.

You might consider Vigilance instead of SE or BFT, as the Harugumo is really sluggish and even a single torp can make you a one-shot even in a smokescreen.

 

 

2) Selfish HE spammer: PT+AR+SE+SI+BFT+DE+AFT, reload module, possibly smoke module.

 

You have an extra smoke and more range to make use of them. Keeping your distance will make you hit BBs less on the bow and more on the superstructure and the deck, where IFHE often doesn't help (USN, German, Soviet BBs, Izumo and Yama hulls). It also keeps you safer, so LS can be foregone.

PT because from that range you might even do some open water trollboating on stationary BBs and radar cruisers.

 

3) The Orthodox: PM+LS+AR+SE+DE+CE+IFHE, range module.

 

You take IFHE to melt French and British decks (and the Amagi's), but also DE because at that point it's a huge boost percentage-wise. Concealment because you're still a DD, same for LS and SE.

 

Personally, I have all three IJN gunboats, and a permacamo from the campaign on the Kitakaze, and I'm working on all three builds (not saying which on which ship though :Smile_trollface: ).

 

I'd add that, special (coal) modules aside, I'd go for Torpedo Tubes Mod 1, mostly to reduce the chance of incapacitations, which reset the already painfully long reload.

Also, acceleration over steering, as smokescreens are torpedo magnets.

 

Cheers

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5 hours ago, GulvkluderGuld said:

 

Also IFHE is far more important for CA farming (30 mm sections) than BBs.

Your base HE pen is already 30mm (same as a Worcester's...), at least from the last patch.

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2 hours ago, tocqueville8 said:

Your base HE pen is already 30mm (same as a Worcester's...), at least from the last patch.

You're right (had to check). When TF did that get changed.

 

Afaik they used to have 1/4 pen on the HE so 100/4. Now Its confusing. Might viable to drop IFHE then and get DE instead.

 

I still dont think additional range is is useful, the shells travels slow enough as it is. 

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14 hours ago, averof_warrior said:

in close range with haragumo fight you are dead any dd you have

 

That's not necessarily how it works.

If you look at the raw HE dpm and health pool alone, sure, Harugumo wins a fight.
It's not that simple though.
Harugumo is really big and clumsy and risks eating torps at close range, much more so than your run of the mill DD who is generally more nimble.
And once you do have a spread of 10 torps incoming, good luck with consistently keeping up that DPM and all guns on target while you dodge torps at sub 6 kms.
Then there's a question of what kind of DD you are fighting and at what range.
Good luck trying to get all your shells on target against a Grozovoi/Khaba at longer ranges - they might have lower HE dpm, but they do have the shell travel time and ballistics to outgun you.
As a Daring I'll similarly pick a fight with Harugumo if I can - having hydro and short smokes available lets me confidently pick a close range fight (Daring outspots the Harugumo and usually gets the first few volleys in), then smoking up when Harugumo returns fire only to repeat the process later (the Daring also has a heal, making hit and run attacks favour Daring over time).

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12 hours ago, GulvkluderGuld said:

Might viable to drop IFHE then and get DE instead. 

Imho that's overkill. You would have an enormous fires-per-minute output, but unless you're really good at spreading those fires on the enemy's extremities as well, its utility saturates quickly.

I think it makes more sense to either take both or neither. Compared to DE, BFT helps against every target, but in particular it makes you more survivable against other DDs and planes, which are often the bottleneck of your game as a DD captain.

 

Then again, I'm just offering broad suggestions, as I haven't played the Harugumo much yet. One guy I did a few games with a few weeks ago had a "full-dakka" build, with SI and both the smoke and the speed boost mod. I played a very good game in my Halland, but he just outshone me.

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On 12/16/2020 at 7:57 PM, averof_warrior said:

in close range with haragumo fight you are dead any dd you have

 

That's (almost) true, for the same reasons that DDs don't like to be caught into close range fights with light cruisers. Problem is - just like cruisers - Harugumo is outspotted and outmanoeuvred. She doesn't have a citadel but she's still relatively fragile when focused. Her abysmal turning circle and big size make her easy to hit and vulnerable to torpedoes. She's also not especially fast, at least by high tier DD standards.

Harugumo has her strengths but being a good DD hunter is not one of them. Although she does make for excellent support for another DD - the firepower she brings to the picture is certainly no joke.

 

And answering your original question - IFHE. There's just no contest.

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2 hours ago, tocqueville8 said:

Imho that's overkill. You would have an enormous fires-per-minute output, but unless you're really good at spreading those fires on the enemy's extremities as well, its utility saturates quickly.

I think it makes more sense to either take both or neither. Compared to DE, BFT helps against every target, but in particular it makes you more survivable against other DDs and planes, which are often the bottleneck of your game as a DD captain.

Dont get me wrong, I consider the minicruiser build inferior, but some people insist it is viable (probably because playing the Harugumo as a DD hunter and succesfully dodging torps is beyond their skill)

Agree completely that BFT is better than DE unless you just farm BBs from 16 km in which case it is probably a toss-up.

It is rather easy to spread those fires to multiple locations if you shoot at targets from 10-12 km at most.

 

I still think the DE build is viable. I used it on Daring untill the IFHE rework and the amount of fires was disgusting. 

Harugumo fire chance is actually quite poor with IFHE, but you cant take IHFE, CE, BFT, SE and also have points for DE so something has to give.

 

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31 minutes ago, GulvkluderGuld said:

It is rather easy to spread those fires to multiple locations if you shoot at targets from 10-12 km at most. 

I agree with that, but limiting your range makes you more vulnerable to the omnipresent Soviet radar cruisers, at least to the extent that they'll make you waste those smokes. Therefore, some combination of SI (also useful for TRB, especially to sneak an early set of torps in your cap) and AFT or the range module is welcome, imho.


Also, keep in mind that with 2 signals you get half as much fire chance as with DE, and you often get some signals back, at least from Witherers, if you play at T10. Maybe it was implied to take the signals, but you never know...

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On 12/16/2020 at 3:33 PM, averof_warrior said:

 i think to build with pm-ls-ar-se-bft-ce but I can not decide on rpf or ifh

Dude... Build it whatever... Cap skill rework is coming. Any advise is going to be obsolete in a month...

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I'm thinking I should grind the unique smokememes mod and make a build around it when the skill rework hits. I only just noticed it gives +1 consumables too. 

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1 hour ago, tocqueville8 said:

I agree with that, but limiting your range makes you more vulnerable to the omnipresent Soviet radar cruisers, at least to the extent that they'll make you waste those smokes. Therefore, some combination of SI (also useful for TRB, especially to sneak an early set of torps in your cap) and AFT or the range module is welcome, imho.


Also, keep in mind that with 2 signals you get half as much fire chance as with DE, and you often get some signals back, at least from Witherers, if you play at T10. Maybe it was implied to take the signals, but you never know...

I think we just have different playstyles :Smile_great:

With good situational awareness, those soviet radars arnt that much a threat (only lasts 15s). I tend to just acceleration juke with speedboost and stay smoked. A more interesting argument (imo) for AFT/range is if open water gunboating is viable (no cv games) now that WG added 10% ap protection to harugumo and khaba. Havnt tried that yet.

I'm not a fan of SI on DDs without a heal, the games where I use the 4th smoke are quite rare compared to using extra DPM every game. Also, I run Yamamoto on Harugumo, so I get the 4th set for free quite often :cat_cool:

 

As to DE I actually dont bother with the signals outside competitive since I dont run minicruiser build, but 2% is still very low when you can get 5% with DE and flags :) I run the build and flags on Daring ranked and competitive and Stalingrads just melt. 40k dmg in 40s and leaving them with at least 2 fires isnt unusual.

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Just now, GulvkluderGuld said:

I think we just have different playstyles :Smile_great:

With good situational awareness, those soviet radars arnt that much a threat (only lasts 15s). I tend to just acceleration juke with speedboost and stay smoked. A more interesting argument (imo) for AFT/range is if open water gunboating is viable (no cv games) now that WG added 10% ap protection to harugumo and khaba. Havnt tried that yet.

I'm not a fan of SI on DDs without a heal, the games where I use the 4th smoke are quite rare compared to using extra DPM every game. Also, I run Yamamoto on Harugumo, so I get the 4th set for free quite often :cat_cool:

 

As to DE I actually dont bother with the signals outside competitive since I dont run minicruiser build, but 2% is still very low when you can get 5% with DE and flags :) I run the build and flags on Daring ranked and competitive and Stalingrads just melt. 40k dmg in 40s and leaving them with 2 fires after dmc isnt unusual.

As I said, I have all 3 IJN gunboats and I'm working on a different build on each. I keep my Yamamoto on the Kitakaze.

 

Indeed, I'm skeptical about SI, though I am considering it on EU DDs in place of SE, as an extra speed boost/radar/Def AA might be worth the slight loss of potential hp.

 

What you do with the Daring to those Stalingrads, I think I did a few times with the Worcester (no IFHE). 

 

Cheers.

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On 12/16/2020 at 3:33 PM, averof_warrior said:

 i think to build with pm-ls-ar-se-bft-ce but I can not decide on rpf or ifh

 

 

My build is in the end of the video. I go for the range build with AFT and IFHE.

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