Goliath

[Kiagy]

I cannot recall ever seeing this British cruiser in battle, is there a reason for this ?

[DFens_666]

Not very popular. Doesnt bring much to the table, which others already do (or might even be better at it).

Not something average players would get, and not something good players need. Mediocre firepower with good tankiness.

[Yedwy]

3 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

Not very popular. Doesnt bring much to the table, which others already do (or might even be better at it).

Not something average players would get, and not something good players need. Mediocre firepower with good tankiness.

This

[159Hunter]

It's the cruiser version of MegaZao. But power is scaled down as it is a CA and not a BB.

Better use real MegaZao.

[Kiagy]

2 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

Not very popular. Doesnt bring much to the table, which others already do (or might even be better at it).

Not something average players would get, and not something good players need. Mediocre firepower with good tankiness.

It sound to me like this ship is badly in need of a buff, so many good cruisers at T10 yet this ship is not used because its one of the weakest (if not the weakest) going by what you say

[albin322]

4 minutes ago, Mahaaret said:

It sound to me like this ship is badly in need of a buff, so many good cruisers at T10 yet this ship is not used because its one of the weakest (if not the weakest) going by what you say

no it dont need a buff its really good in cb for example. its just a diffrent taste!½

[Kiagy]

1 minute ago, albin322 said:

no it dont need a buff its really good in cb for example. its just a diffrent taste!½

Oh i see, thanks for the feedback

[LemonadeWarriorITA]

7 minutes ago, Mahaaret said:

It sound to me like this ship is badly in need of a buff, so many good cruisers at T10 yet this ship is not used because its one of the weakest (if not the weakest) going by what you say

It’s more difficult to play and not weak. It’s a baby Conqkek

[_Dunc_]

Damage Over Time boat, which is a problem when most games these days are over within 4 minutes of first engagement. 

[cherry2blost]

1 minute ago, _Dunc_ said:

Damage Over Time boat, which is a problem when most games these days are over within 4 minutes of first engagement. 

^^^ This for sure

 

[Yedwy]

1 hour ago, Mahaaret said:

It sound to me like this ship is badly in need of a buff, so many good cruisers at T10 yet this ship is not used because its one of the weakest (if not the weakest) going by what you say

No its not the potential for damage that she lacks as her guns hit hard, its utility or more to the point a team contributing thing other cruiser lacks...

[Perekotypole]

I've seen quite a few in last clan battle season

[GarrusBrutus]

1 hour ago, Mahaaret said:

I cannot recall ever seeing this British cruiser in battle, is there a reason for this ?

Because its a hard ship to play well: You need to know exactly what fights you can and cannot take. And unlike a Zao, she doesn perform when only at max range.

[Pekoe_Darjeeling]

3 hours ago, Mahaaret said:

I cannot recall ever seeing this British cruiser in battle, is there a reason for this ?

Yes.

[Aragathor]

Goliath, and by extension the whole RN CA line, is an example of a Failure of Concept. WG failed to make the line fun to play. Instead they went with a form of "balance" that made the line boring to play as they have no place in the game.

And it's a shame as a lot of those ships were either built or were  historical designs. But that's what happens when you balance with a spreadsheet and don't play your own game.

[lovelacebeer]

The British heavy cruiser line in general is not that appealing to play, they are very much damage over time ships dependant on their HE, fine in clan battles but randoms there are better ships with greater utility. They seem entirely designed around what the almighty spreadsheet said the game needed. 

 

Also doesnt help the Goliath is a damn ugly ship. 

[KillStealBoss]

I play it and I'm doing rather well on it. 90+ battles, it's not bad nor amazing. Just like Vermont it's hard to determine how to play it. Goliath isn't the best at anything but it's not bad either (maybe it's AP it's pretty bad especially at 10km+ range).

There's a saying in Polish : "Is something is good in everything then it's not good enough for anything". 

Although I'm not having bad time playing it. It's not as hard to play as Colbert. 

[Chaos_Umbra]

Because the T9 Drake is better could also be a reason, considering you get a worse stepped citadel and loose the spotting aircraft so are forced to take range mod.

[Perekotypole]

Vor 1 Stunde, Aragathor sagte:

Goliath, and by extension the whole RN CA line, is an example of a Failure of Concept. WG failed to make the line fun to play. Instead they went with a form of "balance" that made the line boring to play as they have no place in the game.

And it's a shame as a lot of those ships were either built or were  historical designs. But that's what happens when you balance with a spreadsheet and don't play your own game.

yes, WG learned their lesson and are printing OP ships now, that are fun to play... 

[HaachamaShipping]

16 hours ago, Mahaaret said:

It sound to me like this ship is badly in need of a buff, so many good cruisers at T10 yet this ship is not used because its one of the weakest (if not the weakest) going by what you say

Please don't buff, the ship is fine in terms of power level. I also don't think you could change anything about the ship to make it more exciting without having to nerf one of the things that keeps it different from other ships. And let's be real, last time a line got some redesign because it seemed "boring", we got the silliness that was Henri IV. But Goliath already is one of the best performing T10 tech tree cruisers and buffing it thus isn't justified.

 

Honestly, I think the line is decent, but its appeal is niche. As someone who enjoys the ship, frankly, I don't want the line redesigned, because for any special consumable you'd need to nerf the guns or the heal and either would be absolutely frustrating to play if reload is even longer or the superheal goes away. Similarly, buffing the guns would require nerfing the tankiness. If people don't like the Goliath, there's a ton of other T10s that may be more suited to them, but I rather not they change the ship. Fun is a subjective experience. I also don't like playing Stalingrad, but I don't ask for changes to it.

 

Also, people should appreciate that we have a tech tree line that by its performance isn't weak, yet isn't overbearing and hasn't wrecked any meta (*cough* Venezia *cough* *cough* Petropavlovsk *cough*).

[Bratoev]

I still keep mine. Its a baby Conqueror. The reason there are so few of them around is the line is not very pleasant to grind. Drake and Goliath are quite fun with the double rudder mod and the HE hits like a sack of bricks. Medium to short range AP is also beautiful.

[Kiagy]

32 minutes ago, HaachamaShipping said:

Please don't buff, the ship is fine in terms of power level. I also don't think you could change anything about the ship to make it more exciting without having to nerf one of the things that keeps it different from other ships. And let's be real, last time a line got some redesign because it seemed "boring", we got the silliness that was Henri IV. But Goliath already is one of the best performing T10 tech tree cruisers and buffing it thus isn't justified.

 

Honestly, I think the line is decent, but its appeal is niche. As someone who enjoys the ship, frankly, I don't want the line redesigned, because for any special consumable you'd need to nerf the guns or the heal and either would be absolutely frustrating to play if reload is even longer or the superheal goes away. Similarly, buffing the guns would require nerfing the tankiness. If people don't like the Goliath, there's a ton of other T10s that may be more suited to them, but I rather not they change the ship. Fun is a subjective experience. I also don't like playing Stalingrad, but I don't ask for changes to it.

 

Also, people should appreciate that we have a tech tree line that by its performance isn't weak, yet isn't overbearing and hasn't wrecked any meta (*cough* Venezia *cough* *cough* Petropavlovsk *cough*).

I have only just unlocked Goliath, played a couple of games and it was ok, but i soon realised i have not yet seen a Goliath in battle before (no recollection anyway) and that why i posted the topic

 

You forgot the Smolensk *cough* *cough*

[HaachamaShipping]

4 minutes ago, Mahaaret said:

I have only just unlocked Goliath, played a couple of games and it was ok, but i soon realised i have not yet seen a Goliath in battle before (no recollection anyway) and that why i posted the topic

People also don't seem to play Grozovoi much. Yet Grozovoi is a very solid DD. Some lines just seem not too appealing to people and let's be real, there are few lines that have been shittalked to the degree the British CA line has, despite the ships performing quite decent according to WR and average damage.

[Starchy_Tuber]

14 hours ago, Perekotypole said:

yes, WG learned their lesson and are printing OP ships now, that are fun to play... 

well, yes, it isnt russian also 

[Aragathor]

5 hours ago, HaachamaShipping said:

But Goliath already is one of the best performing T10 tech tree cruisers and buffing it thus isn't justified.

Right. But you forgot to mention that it has good stats based on the small amount of players playing the ship. Which changes the discussion. Let's have a look at the amount of players that played the Goliath in the last 2 months:

 

Spoiler

Goliath     6327

 

Worcester     13027

Des Moines     20641    

Alexander Nevsky     11831

Petropavlovsk     15441

Minotaur     19653    

Henri IV     9892    

Hindenburg     27105

Zao     18331

Venezia     14946

 

So, we can safely say that based on the numbers above the "good" stats are due to the fact that only "good" players can be bothered to play the Goliath, while the majority of players finds the ship unattractive.

Even Henri IV has 50% more players in the time frame. This reminds of the same argument brought against calls to buff the Khaba. Stats are fine indeed.

 

If more people would bother to play the ship the stats would tank, and for a good reason.