Removal of the Kamikaze from the game.

[MacFergus]

3 hours ago, Saltface said:

The OP presented a video by Robin as argument that Kamikaze is broken and overpowered. The same video at 2.45 min is clear. "Lets leave because the T22 can easily outgun me" and Robin just bailed out and left. Later in the same video at 11.10 we find the following statement by Robin "The Clemson is terrifying" 

I am amazed that a player that clearly is Super Unicum and sails the most OP ship of them all (according to MacFergus) just wants to bail out from a measly T22 and a TIV Clemson. T22 and Clemson must be removed because they are OPer (LOL) to Kamikaze.

Once again: It is so easy to counter a Kamikaze. Simply our friend the OP does not know how to do it and wants the ship removed. On the same note I wonder if our friend the OP really watched the video he posted. MacFergus also proposed a nerf to all DDs by nerfing DD mechanics so that the Kamikaze gets nerfed as well. Really? Not to mention lamenting the fact that stealth firing was removed from the game. I wonder why it is OK to stealth fire and it is not OK to stealth torp? 

 

Once again, Happy Crusading

 

Really please do tell how easy it is to counter a Kamikaze?.

 

It obviously isn't because the the kill to death ratio is the best in the game you can put that in your pipe and smoke it .

[cherry2blost]

4 minutes ago, MacFergus said:

Really please do tell how easy it is to counter a Kamikaze?.

 

It obviously isn't because the the kill to death ratio is the best in the game you can put that in your pipe and smoke it.

Oh FFS..... this Horse is dead....

 

E's passed on! This 'orse is no more! He has ceased to be! 'E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker! 'E's a stiff! Bereft of life, 'e rests in peace! If you hadn't nailed 'im to the perch 'e'd be pushing up the daisies! 'Is metabolic processes are now 'istory! 'E's off the twig! 'E's kicked the bucket, 'e's shuffled off 'is mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisible!! THIS IS AN EX-HORSE!!

[DFens_666]

5 minutes ago, MacFergus said:

Really please do tell how easy it is to counter a Kamikaze?.

 

It obviously isn't because the the kill to death ratio is the best in the game you can put that in your pipe and smoke it .

 

Not for the average T5 player - it is for better players, but a lot of them dont play T5 all day long (if ever), like certain Kamikaze players

as i showed above, i beat 2 of them, so, definetely not a problem. CVs and DDs have not much issue doing it. Cruisers depends a bit on the map, and if you manage to surprise them. BBs can only try to dodge, but then again, they cant do anything against other DDs either so...

[MacFergus]

1 minute ago, DFens_666 said:

as i showed above, i beat 2 of them, so, definetely not a problem. CVs and DDs have not much issue doing it. Cruisers depends a bit on the map, and if you manage to surprise them. BBs can only try to dodge, but then again, they cant do anything against other DDs either so...

 

How do you surprise something you cant see? , Somebody mentioned earlier the metal effect the Kamikaze has on players nobody wants push them because they don't want to eat 14400 damage super torps , Its not also guaranteed you will beat a Kami in a Gun fight , I duelled a guy years ago in my Clemson he beat me with Kami guns only although i was chasing him down we tried it twice with the same result granted he was reverse kiting and I was pushing him. 

 

The only real weakness it has is CVs and if it runs into a better Gunboat in a cap both are situational and depends on the skills of the CV player or line up of DDs.

 

As you say if a good player wants to stay undetected he will do that exactly with no counter whatsoever I don't see how this is fair , The Minikaze is certainly not as scary with slower torps and not as hard hitting.  

[DFens_666]

Some old stuff, from the first ranked sprints

 

 

[MacFergus]

16 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

as i showed above, i beat 2 of them, so, definetely not a problem.

 

So we agree poor players and not just good players play this ship and yet it still retains being in the top 5 ships 2, 3, 5, respectively with the best K/D ratio. 

[MacFergus]

3 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

Some old stuff, from the first ranked sprints

 

 

What no Kraken no x3 devastating strikes Minikaze is slacking 

[GarrusBrutus]

33 minutes ago, MacFergus said:

Really please do tell how easy it is to counter a Kamikaze?.

[Hugh_Ruka]

13 minutes ago, MacFergus said:

 

How do you surprise something you cant see?

 

If you can't see a DD means he's AFK or dead. Smokes, torpedoes, detection give him away ... If you continue sailing in straight lines or camping an island stationary while torps whizz past it's your fault ...

[MacFergus]

 

9 minutes ago, GarrusBrutus said:

 

[DFens_666]

44 minutes ago, MacFergus said:

How do you surprise something you cant see? ,

 

?

works even better at lowertiers, because maps are smaller / islands closer to caps...

 

[159Hunter]

40 minutes ago, MacFergus said:

 

 

Well, judging from your posts here it's not obvious to you. Thankfully we have @GarrusBrutus here to share his l33t hax.

[Saltface]

47 minutes ago, MacFergus said:

Really please do tell how easy it is to counter a Kamikaze?.

I doubt you will be satisfied, but....I ll try.

 

These (in spoiler) are the Kamikaze guns and this is the rudder and turning circle of the Kamikaze. Put these two together and you have a ship that outturns her guns.

Trying to keep your guns on target makes you an EASY target at the distances of engagement with other DDs. So, not only you have lower DPM but you can not keep your guns on target. (you know Physics 101 - Angular Speed?)

So (as our friend Robin stated in his video), a T IV Clemson with 12 torps to launch at you (and oblige you to go in a constant turn to dodge) can melt you down with her guns while you are not able to return fire. 7 seconds to your 10 seconds reload (you will not shoot as you are in a frantic turn to avoid the wall of 12 torps), and you have 825 m/sec shell velocity to compare with the 884 m/sec of the Clemson. She will melt you down with her guns. And she is TIV. What do you think the T22 will do that will shoot 6 times her guns (that will be on target) while you struggle to shoot 3 times and your guns are not on target?

 

I could go on and describe more elaborate tactics to get rid of a Kamikaze. I have 1,100+ games in her. I love that ship and know her well (my credentials in spoiler no 2). I know all the ways to sink ships in my Kami and all the ways they can sink me. 

 

 

Everybody here told you that the Kamikaze is gunned down very easily. You either fail to understand this because you lack the basic thinking skills or because you are prejudiced and unable to fathom the irrationality of your posts in this thread.

So please, put a lid on it, quit the crusading crap and find another subject. At least try to know what you are talking about.

 

Merry Christmas

 

Spoiler

 

 

Spoiler

 

[MacFergus]

23 minutes ago, Saltface said:

I could go on and describe more elaborate tactics to get rid of a Kamikaze. I have 1,100+ games in her.

 

Yeah you just explained her weakness there with that sentence , Answer me this why would you play 950 battles in Kamikaze no let me answer for you.

 

Because your a bog average player and its the only thing holding your WR together solo?.

 

No let me go further after you seem to goad me to this the Grem is op but your WR is 37% and your PR 511 and average damage 17k? Your Kami WR is 55% PR 1104 and 35k damage you have no experience in the Minkaze .

 

Thankyou so much for proving my point that an average player becomes a decent player in this ship.

 

Please do shut the door on the way out i hate to be smug but your trying to belittle me sort of pushed me over the edge so to speak.

 

Merry Christmas to you also. 

[159Hunter]

10 minutes ago, MacFergus said:

Some statshaming

And here we have your problem again. Rather than actually discussing actual game facts you go and do a personal attack on someone.

You sir have a serious attitude problem and are not interested in discussing stuff. All you want is for people to say you are right. Maybe change your nick to MacDonald?

[Ronchabale]

11 hours ago, lup3s said:

 

They have the same concealment ...

Yeah I know,  the interesting difference is the torp speed / damage

68 kn / 14400 max damage Fujin, Kamikaze 

57 kn /  10833 Minekaze

63 kn/ 14600 Mutsuki

 

[MacFergus]

1 hour ago, 159Hunter said:

And here we have your problem again. Rather than actually discussing actual game facts you go and do a personal attack on someone.

You sir have a serious attitude problem and are not interested in discussing stuff. All you want is for people to say you are right. Maybe change your nick to MacDonald?

Personal attack ? I was proving a point he even mentions he has 1100 battles in the Kami i wanted to find out why and did.

 

Has not everyone been saying its good players that boost the stats of the Kamikaze?.

 

1 hour ago, Saltface said:

Everybody here told you that the Kamikaze is gunned down very easily. You either fail to understand this because you lack the basic thinking skills or because you are prejudiced and unable to fathom the irrationality of your posts in this thread.

So please, put a lid on it, quit the crusading crap and find another subject. At least try to know what you are talking about.

And this.

 

Its his best preforming ship and he calls me bias.

 

People saying the Grem is op and yet here we have a classic example of someone who is not only poor in it but shockingly poor.

 

And he has played the Minkaze 1 time and never played it again.

 

Hey i have bad ships everyone does but the whole reason he's on this thread is not to discuss but more to defend his seal clubber.

 

Ohh same clan didn't see that of course i would expect you to defend his actions its only right.

[MacFergus]

3 minutes ago, Ronchabale said:

Yeah I know,  the interesting difference is the torp speed / damage

68 kn / 14400 max damage Fujin, Kamikaze 

57 kn /  10833 Minekaze

63 kn/ 14600 Mutsuki

 

That increases to absurd levels if you targeting an oncoming ship 71 knot Kami torps targeting an approaching ship your looking at 100 knots depending on the speed of ship however the Kami does get a 0.2 detection negative compared to Minkaze Torps.

[cherry2blost]

 

27 minutes ago, 159Hunter said:

And here we have your problem again. Rather than actually discussing actual game facts you go and do a personal attack on someone.

You sir have a serious attitude problem and are not interested in discussing stuff. All you want is for people to say you are right. Maybe change your nick to MacDonald?

I tried that and got 'disapproving' looks.......... MacFerFerFerFerFer as he likes to repeat his delusional 'facts' so regularly... seems he may have a bit of a stutter.....

I still like MacFartface though.......

40 minutes ago, MacFergus said:

 

Yeah you just explained her weakness there with that sentence , Answer me this why would you play 950 battles in Kamikaze no let me answer for you.

 

Because your a bog average player and its the only thing holding your WR together solo?.

 

No let me go further after you seem to goad me to this the Grem is op but your WR is 37% and your PR 511 and average damage 17k? Your Kami WR is 55% PR 1104 and 35k damage you have no experience in the Minkaze .

 

Thankyou so much for proving my point that an average player becomes a decent player in this ship.

 

Please do shut the door on the way out i hate to be smug but your trying to belittle me sort of pushed me over the edge so to speak.

 

Merry Christmas to you also. 

So, Mr MacFrothymouth, Why would we play so many games in Kamikaze, mainly because it's fun, it allows ME to either train a LARGE number of 19 point IJN Captains and/or grind shedloads of Elite Captain XP that allows me to have in excess of 70 19 point Captains... Hell I even have one on the Black Swan.....

 

As per usual, once someone begins to lose an argument, to be proven patently wrong and to have an excessive amount of empirical data thrown their way. The final resort is to Stat Shaming, no one has mentioned how good/bad your stats are MacFartypants, frankly none of us really care as you do not really appear on our RADAR.

BUT having decided to descend into the gutter, let us proceed...

 

MacFactLess's Minekaze has a 60% Winrate so it must be overpowered as you seem to struggle with the OP Gremyashchy

Cleveland when it was broken and totally OP at Tier 6 you were pretty terrible in that one.....

 

I mean overall you ain't terrible, just 'average' except in your seal clubbers of choice, Minekaze and Julius Caesar.....

 

But MacFoofoo, you are beginning to come across as a bit 'entitled' potentially bordering on a bit 'dickish', but you can have the benefit of the doubt as you may have been banging your head against your desk lately..... as stated earlier in the thread you really Really REALLY need ALL those cells up there, otherwise they may get lonesome.....

 

 

 

 

[lup3s]

19 minutes ago, Ronchabale said:

Yeah I know,  the interesting difference is the torp speed / damage

68 kn / 14400 max damage Fujin, Kamikaze 

57 kn /  10833 Minekaze

63 kn/ 14600 Mutsuki

 

 

Yes, I think I made that point before; that the Kami-sisters have a higher chance of sinking a ship themselves due to the higher torp alpha.

Though does it matter that much, most of the times?

 

On the one hand, at this tier, if you hit enough torpedoes with a Kamikaze to devastate an enemy ship, chances are high you could have done it with any ship's torpedoes - bar the Pan EU DDs perhaps.

(:edit: to clarify, I mean here that the Kami torps are most of the time overkill when you devastate a ship - usually 1-2 hits more than needed)

 

On the other hand, at this tier, if your Alpha strike would be insufficient to sink the enemy (compared to the equal amount of hits with Kami-torps), it will probably put the ship to such low health that it's dead regardless. Most of the times you can even just finish it with your guns...

 

 

Now this difference in Alpha damage would certainly translate to (on average) more kills, though in my opinion (and experience) it's not that game-breaking or OP.

 

The counter to the Kami-sisters is the same counter any DD has at T5 : CVs (regardless if T4 or T6) and other DDs.

[MacFergus]

8 minutes ago, cherry2blost said:

The final resort is to Stat Shaming, no one has mentioned how good/bad your stats are MacFartypants, frankly none of us really care as you do not really appear on our RADAR.

May i refer you to your post 124 for trying to stat shame.

 

9 minutes ago, cherry2blost said:

But MacFoofoo, you are beginning to come across as a bit 'entitled' potentially bordering on a bit 'dickish', but you can have the benefit of the doubt as you may have been banging your head against your desk lately..... as stated earlier in the thread you really Really REALLY need ALL those cells up there, otherwise they may get lonesome.....

Personal attacks again , Please refer to any personal attacks i have made on posters here ?. Apart from yourself because well reason.

[MacFergus]

8 minutes ago, lup3s said:

 

Yes, I think I made that point before; that the Kami-sisters have a higher chance of sinking a ship themselves due to the higher torp alpha.

Though does it matter that much, most of the times?

 

On the one hand, at this tier, if you hit enough torpedoes with a Kamikaze to devastate an enemy ship, chances are high you could have done it with any ship's torpedoes (provided they can fire 6) - bar the Pan EU DDs perhaps.

 

On the other hand, if your Alpha strike would be insufficient to sink the enemy (compared to the equal amount of hits with Kami-torps), it will probably put the ship to such low health that it's dead regardless. Most of the times you can even just finish it with your guns...

 

 

Now this difference in Alpha damage would certainly translate to (on average) more kills, though in my opinion (and experience) it's not that game-breaking or OP.

 

The counter to the Kami-sisters is the same counter any DD has at T5 : CVs (regardless if T4 or T6) and other DDs.

The higher alpha damage and what seems increased devastating strike potential can wreck BBs and kill Cruisers , In truth i very rarely see Kamikaze's capping unless its late in the game and they feel they have to , I do see them on a flank or using islands which is good play , Ambushing in a Kami is a certain kill the speed of the torps close up can be deadly and you cannot WASD quick enough howerver this could apply to other DDs but in my own experience i have dodged slower torps or taken maybe 1 or 2 hits but 1 or 2 hits from a Kami as you say your dead meat normally.

 

I have been beaten on my Clemson by a Kami using guns sure i wrecked him and i have sunk Kamikaze's before with Clemson but its not a forgone conclusion , Kami torps at close range are so fast that you need to WASD this puts your boat vulnerable to Kami guns that can do 2k damage bare in mind a Clemson rushing a Kami in smoke is subject to other ships firing on him as well it really isn't as easy as it sounds , Remember the Clemson gets one shot to take the Kami out if it fails and the Kami escapes well.

 

As for air detection having played CV at this tier its a nightmare finding any Jap DD at lower tiers , You basically have to fly right over them and then you have to guess as you turn your planes in slow motion where he was before you start your attack run even then he can WASD and you could spend 5 mins trying to kill him depending on your skill level , They blip constantly in and out of sight , The best method is just to keep him spotted because the Kami has such poor AA.

 

 

[159Hunter]

45 minutes ago, MacFergus said:

Personal attacks again , Please refer to any personal attacks i have made on posters here ?. Apart from yourself because well reason.

Statshaming is a personal attack. So I guess post #314.

[MacFergus]

1 minute ago, 159Hunter said:

Statshaming is a personal attack. So I guess post #314.

Yes it is I quite agree.

 

1 hour ago, Saltface said:

Everybody here told you that the Kamikaze is gunned down very easily. You either fail to understand this because you lack the basic thinking skills or because you are prejudiced and unable to fathom the irrationality of your posts in this thread.

So please, put a lid on it, quit the crusading crap and find another subject. At least try to know what you are talking about.

This is rude , And so justified.

 

It also proves to an extent that an average player can do very well in a op ship like the Kamikaze , Other posters were implying that good players made the stats high I was not stats shaming him but making a point did I laugh at his stats no I did not however it was a response to a rude post above.

 

Like i said everyone has bad ships but when you constantly seal club to make your stats look decent i draw the line because it clearly is not for fun , That's not to say you cant play what you want but I'm certainly not going to take abuse off someone like that.

[cherry2blost]

43 minutes ago, MacFergus said:

Yes it is I quite agree.

 

This is rude , And so justified.

 

It also proves to an extent that an average player can do very well in a op ship like the Kamikaze , Other posters were implying that good players made the stats high I was not stats shaming him but making a point did I laugh at his stats no I did not however it was a response to a rude post above.

 

Like i said everyone has bad ships but when you constantly seal club to make your stats look decent i draw the line because it clearly is not for fun , That's not to say you cant play what you want but I'm certainly not going to take abuse off someone like that.

 

The abject level of stupidity being shown here, is like watching reruns of Coronation Street, inane initially then downright depressing and mostly out of date...... Attempting to follow your logic is like listening to Hilda hen peck poor old Stanley into his grave.....hey MacHilda?