Worst BB line in the game: new USN FreeXP turds?

[GulvkluderGuld]

Its been a long time since a newly released line has looked this bad in stats and actual gameplay. Even RN CAs didnt look this bad.

Minnesota 4th worst BB on tier 9 (exempting premiums), barely edging out FdG (and surprisingly) Iowa.

 

Considering usually stats look very strong initially for new releases, maybe we will see WG adding an extra AA mount to these ships in 3-4 months time?

Seriously though, the Kansas and Minnesota are good only for FXP'ing. Not even original Izumo was this painful to play. 

Been withholding judgement untill it at least had upgraded my Minnesota. Result: I migh've shot down an extra plane or two.

Can they at least get a few extra knots of speed pretty please?

Then again, I'm not really a BB player except for the speedy french baguettes. Opinions?

 

Tier 8:

Tier 9:

[Karasu_Browarszky]

Empirical data?

[Yedwy]

Yep I told so a while back, I mean Im sure not the worlds best BB player (or any other class for that matter) but I am not completely incompetent and when I average a T5 level of damage in a T9 its good bye and good riddance from me, freeXP-ed the Vermont and thats that

[Karasu_Browarszky]

3 minutes ago, Yedwy said:

Yep I told so a while back, I mean Im sure not the worlds best BB player (or any other class for that matter) but I am not completely incompetent and when I average a T5 level of damage in a T9 its good bye and good riddance from me, freeXP-ed the Vermont and thats that

 

Are you saying the guns get proportionately worse from Colorado up?

[Skyllon]

What I'd like to know, how many people are going to grind those ships only for the sake of additional SC / Snowflake / Cornflake?

[DFens_666]

5 minutes ago, Karasu_Hidesuke said:

 

Are you saying the guns get proportionately worse from Colorado up?

 

T8 more guns, much worse sigma.

T9 more guns, worse sigma, better dispersion (because 6th slot module)

 

btw havent touched any of them, and dont intend to do it. Id rather get Smaland than spend like 500k FreeXP on those turds.

[Yedwy]

15 minutes ago, Karasu_Hidesuke said:

Are you saying the guns get proportionately worse from Colorado up?

In short - yes, I didnt try Kansas after the buff but before it...

[GulvkluderGuld]

33 minutes ago, Karasu_Hidesuke said:

Empirical data?

?

Just WoWs-numbers general data on T9 BBs. Much faster than using maplesyrup.

 

[Butterdoll]

well, Kansas, it's practically immune to my Bayern, my only hope it's to aim high.

This is from a very close match , soon i was alone vs a Kansas and a Myoko against the ropes, i managed to dispatch the cruiser and start poking  that large beast.

we were close on ships, points and caps.

In the end, to try to spare the amalfi that was in the same cap as i i tried to ram the thing that was at 5k HP but at the end...

Well, Bayern it's T6 and that beast it's T8, i almost had him.

 

Kansas it's a pain to play against, it's just one of those objects that will not move, you have to go around it.

He just outplayed me if he wanted he could have simply blapped me, I should had gone for the cap instead of trying to help that italian cruiser.

So, @GulvkluderGuld I do not share your opinion

20201208_175950_PGSB106-Bayern_53_Shoreside.wowsreplay

 

 

[Yedwy]

Its simple, these ships give up everything for the guns, so those guns need to deliver, 40 s of reload is workable BUT they need better accuracy, MUCH better accuracy to actually deliver the "heavy accurate broadside" they are marketed for this way they are just nothing...

[Jvd2000]

Is the Kansas sigma buff already active? Because I did not “ feel” it. Only played  the ship a few times last days but not really felt a noticeable improvement. 
 

But grinding through the xp because I want to have Minnesota for the last missions for the free permanent camo event. And I try to save my FXP a bit...

 

Off topic: Minnesota reload or accuracy module?

[Karasu_Browarszky]

17 minutes ago, Butterdoll said:

well, Kansas, it's practically immune to my Bayern, my only hope it's to aim high.

This is from a very close match , soon i was alone vs a Kansas and a Myoko against the ropes, i managed to dispatch the cruiser and start poking  that large beast.

we were close on ships, points and caps.

In the end, to try to spare the amalfi that was in the same cap as i i tried to ram the thing that was at 5k HP but at the end...

Well, Bayern it's T6 and that beast it's T8, i almost had him.

 

Kansas it's a pain to play against, it's just one of those objects that will not move, you have to go around it.

He just outplayed me if he wanted he could have simply blapped me, I should had gone for the cap instead of trying to help that italian cruiser.

So, @GulvkluderGuld I do not share your opinion

20201208_175950_PGSB106-Bayern_53_Shoreside.wowsreplay

 

 

 

So.. is Kansas like the sweet spot then?

[Angry_Penguin18]

Is the Vermont a turd though? 

[Verblonde]

Personally, I feel that the new US BBs are a splendid addition to the game, and as many people as possible should be persuaded to play them.

 

My favourite ships all being DDs is entirely coincidental, of course, and entirely unrelated to this point of view...

 

[Butterdoll]

21 minutes ago, Karasu_Hidesuke said:

 

So.. is Kansas like the sweet spot then?

I don't know, all i know is, I was stupid in giving up the grind for Kansas.

From where i stand

It's seems a bigger and punchier Bayern.

I can't feel the 1.5 or 1.6 sigma when it's tearing apart my ship.

your only hope it's to aim high or else you get nothing.

Perhaps, Warspite and Queen Elizabeth have better luck against that thing.

I would love to have it.

[DFens_666]

15 minutes ago, Verblonde said:

Personally, I feel that the new US BBs are a splendid addition to the game, and as many people as possible should be persuaded to play them.

 

My favourite ships all being DDs is entirely coincidental, of course, and entirely unrelated to this point of view...

 

 

Verblonde getting an enemy team full of Kansas's

 

[doerhoff_damian]

I will play these new US-BBs very casually while grinding other Lines activly.

I will propably have a T10 Italien BB long before I am finished with this Line.

I do Ok in them when it comes to Win-Rate but I don´t feel like I have the Impact I would like to have.

I will not use any Free XP because at the end you just get another slow BB and I prefer to use my Free XP to set up Captains.

So far I enjoyed German and French BBs the most.

[doerhoff_damian]

Vor 37 Minuten, Butterdoll sagte:

I don't know, all i know is, I was stupid in giving up the grind for Kansas.

From where i stand

It's seems a bigger and punchier Bayern.

I can't feel the 1.5 or 1.6 sigma when it's tearing apart my ship.

your only hope it's to aim high or else you get nothing.

Perhaps, Warspite and Queen Elizabeth have better luck against that thing.

I would love to have it.

Well Tier 6 BBs always have a Problem when fighting Tier 8 BBs in a 1 vs 1.

Every single T8 BB except Odin has Guns that can overmatch 26mm and enough Armor to avoid being overmatched by a T6/T7 BB.

Try fighting a Bismarck in a Bayern.

The Question is how good is the Kansas compared to a Bismarck, a Richeleu, an Amagi or a North Carolina.

[Miragetank90]

When I first played Kansas in early access, I had mixed feelings. I didn't find it terrible, but more on the mediocre side.

Minnesota is an absolute gem and great ship, with the best armour profile in the line with 38mm almost everywhere on the ship and good handling compared to Vermont. The guns are also an improvement over Kansas and hit hard. No issues with accuracy.

Vermont is very powerful, but all the power is in the guns. Everything is amazing about them except reload. The hull on the other hand is borderline garbage and you will get citadelled at long and close range, even when showing angles that most BBs can get away with showing. So that's something to be wary of. For the previous BBs in the line I found cits to be much much less of a problem, though it can still happen. 

 

AA on all the ships works great with no complaints. I never felt the CVs were an overly serious threat even while alone, but it should be remembered that most CVs are quite bad. 

Still, the DPS is definitely there and they're thorny targets. 

 

Overall, Minnesota is my favourite BB of the bunch and imo best balanced BB in the line in terms of characteristics. 

 

My honest opinion: All the ''hurr durr this line suxx'' mantra is bull. These ships will not click with everyone, but that does not mean they are fundamentally bad.

[The_Chiv]

2 hours ago, GulvkluderGuld said:

Its been a long time since a newly released line has looked this bad in stats and actual gameplay. Even RN CAs didnt look this bad.

Minnesota 4th worst BB on tier 9 (exempting premiums), barely edging out FdG (and surprisingly) Iowa.

 

Considering usually stats look very strong initially for new releases, maybe we will see WG adding an extra AA mount to these ships in 3-4 months time?

Seriously though, the Kansas and Minnesota are good only for FXP'ing. Not even original Izumo was this painful to play. 

Been withholding judgement untill it at least had upgraded my Minnesota. Result: I migh've shot down an extra plane or two.

Can they at least get a few extra knots of speed pretty please?

Then again, I'm not really a BB player except for the speedy french baguettes. Opinions?

 

Tier 8:

Tier 9:

There are many lines that have weak tier 8 and 9 ships but explode with amazing t10 ships. Yamato is one of those ships and according to this 

 

Vermont is on track to be one of them too.

 

Now it is a bit too soon to judge a new lines ships with so few games. I mean 74k in t9 250k in t8 while others tech tree ships have like millions of games that have established themselves.

 

I will say that while I have had great games in the Kansas I have also found it to be one of the most frustrating ships I have ever played and felt unfulfilled playing it.

 

 

[Butterdoll]

1 hour ago, doerhoff_damian said:

Try fighting a Bismarck in a Bayern.

that's easy. Quite reassuring foe to face. 

 Bismarck, Tirpitz and Gneisenau, Scharnhorst

At close range you can even choose If you aim low into their broadsides 14 k(ish)if you aim high 20 k(ish) . This is valid from everyone of them

Playing with them and against them and the fact that they are (probably) the most or among the most BBs played, they can be very predictable .

Bayern can do well against them, especially if it gets to be underestimated by them.

 

I do understand what you mean, if Bayern can overmatch 26 mm so can Bismarck and the rest, but while Bismarck and the others have 32 mm at the extremities Bayern only has 26 mm.

 

But i do feel they are a bad example...cause one faced them so many times that...Listen i had a game today where i (Bayern) was the closest ship to a Tirpitz , that Tirpitz committed his secondaries to my ship and after shoot at me with the main guns twice he decided to shoot other targets.

I bounced the incoming shells and i was making 6k to 8 k salvos to him, he wasn't a secondary build...so... 

 

But Massa/Bama are other story all together, those 406's hurt a lot, you better put your belt armour in good use and because they have turning circles as good as Bayern's, those 8k and 11k salvos are fewer, I feel that with Bismarck/Tirpitz and other you can take more advantage of that.

That zig zag motion, the window of opportunity to opening and closing your guard to shoot a full salvo it's much smaller against Massa/Bama than with others.

 

 

[RepSrb]

minnesota is solid, dont need more aa power.

[GulvkluderGuld]

2 hours ago, Butterdoll said:

Kansas it's a pain to play against, it's just one of those objects that will not move, you have to go around it.

He just outplayed me if he wanted he could have simply blapped me, I should had gone for the cap instead of trying to help that italian cruiser.

So, @GulvkluderGuld I do not share your opinion

20201208_175950_PGSB106-Bayern_53_Shoreside.wowsreplay

Trying to fight a tier 8 with a tier 6 armor profile will always be tough.

Being top tier is one of the only situations where Kansas can shine (a little)

1 hour ago, Miragetank90 said:

When I first played Kansas in early access, I had mixed feelings. I didn't find it terrible, but more on the mediocre side.

Minnesota is an absolute gem and great ship, with the best armour profile in the line with 38mm almost everywhere on the ship and good handling compared to Vermont. The guns are also an improvement over Kansas and hit hard. No issues with accuracy.

Vermont is very powerful, but all the power is in the guns. Everything is amazing about them except reload. The hull on the other hand is borderline garbage and you will get citadelled at long and close range, even when showing angles that most BBs can get away with showing. So that's something to be wary of. For the previous BBs in the line I found cits to be much much less of a problem, though it can still happen. 

 

AA on all the ships works great with no complaints. I never felt the CVs were an overly serious threat even while alone, but it should be remembered that most CVs are quite bad. 

Still, the DPS is definitely there and they're thorny targets. 

 

Overall, Minnesota is my favourite BB of the bunch and imo best balanced BB in the line in terms of characteristics. 

 

My honest opinion: All the ''hurr durr this line suxx'' mantra is bull. These ships will not click with everyone, but that does not mean they are fundamentally bad.

Interesting to have different perspective.

Minnesota is by far the worst experience I ever had in a BB, being slow and taking huge amounts of AP damage regardless of angle (how do you angle a round thing anyway?)

My issue isn't so much with the guns as with the platform being so terribly fat and slow it can neither dodge nor tank any damage, nor avoid such situations.

The only solution I found so far is positioning at 18+ km from the action and staying there which is terrible since that leaves me completely reliant on my team.

How do you play it (at what range, and if spawning solo on one flank, how do you deal with that?)

 

Maybe I'm just spoiled having played so many Jean Bart games, but  Minnesota just doen't feel like it belongs on the same tier as that gem.

Last JB i game i soloed consequtively a Donskoi and Azuma leaving me with 20k hp and 1 heal to fight a full hp Minnesota who kept breaking my guns. 

I still won the fight with 5k hp to spare, dealing some 80k dmg to him in the process. He just couldnt angle whatever he did.

 

53 minutes ago, The_Chiv said:

There are many lines that have weak tier 8 and 9 ships but explode with amazing t10 ships. Yamato is one of those ships and according to this 

.....

Vermont is on track to be one of them too.

 

Now it is a bit too soon to judge a new lines ships with so few games. I mean 74k in t9 250k in t8 while others tech tree ships have like millions of games that have established themselves.

 

I will say that while I have had great games in the Kansas I have also found it to be one of the most frustrating ships I have ever played and felt unfulfilled playing it.

Agree Vermont looks different.

Disagree about the next point: usually with few games played, the ships overperform since only the active and usually good players have unlocked them. There is no overperformance here.

Dont get me wrong i had great games in Kansas and even a few in Minnesota too, but overall they feel so much inferior to something like a Bismarck or a FdG.

[Jethro_Grey]

I started grinding the Kansas to get the t9 and t10 for the flakes and because I like chilled gameplay every now and then.

 

You can watch 10mins of YT or TV shows uninterrupted with these things before it gets interesting. 

You can't do that in other lines...except CVs.

[Miragetank90]

33 minutes ago, GulvkluderGuld said:

Interesting to have different perspective.

Minnesota is by far the worst experience I ever had in a BB, being slow and taking huge amounts of AP damage regardless of angle (how do you angle a round thing anyway?)

My issue isn't so much with the guns as with the platform being so terribly fat and slow it can neither dodge nor tank any damage, nor avoid such situations.

The only solution I found so far is positioning at 18+ km from the action and staying there which is terrible since that leaves me completely reliant on my team.

How do you play it (at what range, and if spawning solo on one flank, how do you deal with that?)

 

This one is the easiest to mitigate damage in when you take into account the good plating and a good rudder shift. It's just about using WASD and finding the sweetspot. 

On the subject of armour, lot of HE will shatter as well.

Dodging I've actually found pretty easy to do despite the speed, since most of the time people are shooting you at range and are actually overestimating how fast you're going. I also like to play with my speed a lot, so this helps me. The turning circles are small as well.

 

From my perspective, what you really need to be doing with this ship is thinking ahead farther in advance than what you'd normally be used to in terms of where to position yourself. At the start, I usually like to head a little mid-ish if I can, but it depends on the map and how the team spawns. From there, you can get decent crossfires initially and then decide what to do and how to move when your team and theirs are more deployed. If I spawn far on a flank however, I stay there and do the thingy.

One of two things will happen, we'll win the flank, in which case you need to be able to see this happening in advance and so reposition accordingly to counter/crossfire the other flank, instead of just slowly moving into an already won flank and so have nothing to shoot. Or, we lose the flank, in which case you should know it's coming and already be kiting away. You'll be fine unless you got too close too soon. From your kiting position you can then counter the enemy who will then usually push mid. If they chase you, that's fine too. The your other flank will usually come to mid themselves unless they also collapsed, in which case it's a lost game regardless of which BB you are playing. 

 

You don't want to be too far from the action all the time, so definitely parking at 18km and staying there is not the way to go. But if you get into the thick of it too quickly you'd better be ready because you won't usually get away if you and your team can't kill what's there. So make sure you commit only when ready. By then, if you played right, you'll still be very healthy while the enemy has taken damage and losses. In the end game where you might need to get really close this is especially handy.

 

It's a balancing act which requires some forethought and good knowledge of how to position your ship, moreso in this line than some others.