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DFens_666

Faildivs aka +/-1 Tier divisions - do they need to go?

Faildivs  

47 members have voted

  1. 1. Should WG remove the possibility to have different tiers in a division?

    • Yes
      32
    • No
      15

20 comments in this topic

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Just a little poll here, but in the end, ill also tag some WG guys see what they say to this.

 

Here are my reasons for this (everyone can ofc have their own reasons):

https://forum.worldofwarships.eu/topic/114098-matchmaker-discussion-thread-mm-balance/?do=findComment&comment=3717311

This link and the link in my quote.

There seems to be reoccuring MM-"hickups" with faildivs, where, even during peakhours, matches are not completely filled and even differ in tier composition. The worst one ive seen, was a 3xT7 div getting thrown under the bus against 3xT8 ships of the same class, because a faildiv made this happen. People, who have nothing to do with faildivs, are getting punished for doing nothing wrong - this is insane (if someone remembers that thread from couple of weeks ago, maybe they can link it here).

But even in the links you can see, faildivs sitting in queue for >10 minutes, because of the MM-rules (atleast i assume):

- Every player/tier has a certain amount of low-/mid-/hightier games. Naturally, a faildiv with a CV will be protected against -2 tier MM(6+7 div can at worst see T8 MM without another faildiv). That means, the T7 ship will always be midtier at worst (CV is always T6, T8 is highest, thus midtier). And i think, the MM-rules actually prohibit that. Then these people will sit in queue for as long as there is a 2nd faildiv, so they WILL see T9 MM. If you remove the CV, the maximum waittime will be 5 minutes, because non-CVs can get matched against a different class a tier higher or lower, example:

- T6 Cruiser + 2 T7 Cruisers might end up against T7-8 DD/BBs/Cruisers in T9 MM. Only highest tier ships are matched/mirrored, same as CVs. Mid- and lowtier ships can get replaced by other classes/tiers. Additionally, the rule of max difference of 1DD/BB and max 2Cruiser is applied aswell, so one team can get 1CV/4 BB/4 Cruisers/3DDs and the others get 1CV/5BBs/2Cruisers/4 DDs.

 

Ive never particulary liked faildivs, especially not with CVs, as it was basicly a guarantee for better MM, unless you met a similar faildiv. But with the rules introduced more recently, i think faildivs should actually be removed. When players get punished, who have nothing to do with faildivs, i think its going too far.

 

@MrConway

Did you guys at WG talk about something like this? Are you aware that this happens? Is it due to the MM-rules or not (i think it makes sense)?

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[LAFIE]
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Yes, in fact they should never have been a thing in the first place.

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[CAIN]
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I am a bit torn on this one, as I do like occasionally to take a lower tier ship in a division. 

 

And in my opinion, that's fine as long MM ensures that the opposite team has the same lineup, even if they're not on a div.

 

However,  MM screw ups like described above, are not acceptable. 

You can't compare 3 tier7 ships with 3 tier8.

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9 minuti fa, Jethro_Grey ha scritto:

I am a bit torn on this one, as I do like occasionally to take a lower tier ship in a division. 

 

And in my opinion, that's fine as long MM ensures that the opposite team has the same lineup, even if they're not on a div.

 

However,  MM screw ups like described above, are not acceptable. 

You can't compare 3 tier7 ships with 3 tier8.

ya know, i met an akatsuki with my hakuryu

that was fun

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If "anchoring" actually worked (as in, if you div with, say, a t6 and 7, the highest tier you should see is t8, not t9) - then it'd be ok. As things are, it's not. Most of the time it's mirrored but I've seen situations where it wasn't. As things stand the only acceptable different-tier division is a 9-10... Maybe just allow it above t8?

 

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[THESO]
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I think faildivs either need to stay as is, or WG needs to not allow different tier ships to div up in the first place.
If faildivs never risk meeting +3 MM, the faildiv can pretty much "ensure" favourable MM in every game they queue up for.
Say someone playing a T7 that doesn't want to meet T9 ships, he could then div up with a T6 ship to guarantee that he never meets anything above T8.
The other solution would be to force ships to be the same tier, thereby guaranteeing that it keeps being +/-2 MM.

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[OHFK]
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In my opinion WG needs to add a warning when queue'ing with a fail div.

The warning should include a button "Yes, I know I'm stupid and I might get horrible match making, but I still want to do this" for those who really want to take risks.

But at least you give a good warning to people who have no clue what a fail div is.

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Players
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If you're in a fail division you should be fine to queue for co-op but not random AND you should get a message explaining why.
(I'd be fine in ranked with a tier spread as well)

My biggest problem is that unless you go and read somewhere like the wiki page Matchmaking, the game in no way explains to new players that if you queue in a fail division then the lower tiered ship can end up uptiered. So a pair of new players might only find out when one of them is +3 up tiered and they get their teammates hurl abuse at them.

I can see why they don't want to make anchoring to low tiers work, as people would regularly try and do it.

Anchoring does pretty much work using lower tier CVs... well until you get such amusing results as these.

Matchmaker lol.png

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[TORAZ]
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I dunno, occasionally fighting T5 ships in a T10 CV is pretty funny.

 

ZkMW0ci.png

 

:Smile_trollface:

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[THESO]
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Partially yes. But from T8+ they can stay (T8+9, T9+10) cause they won't end up so heavily up tiered like T7+8. 

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[ALYEN]
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36 minutes ago, Captain_Newman said:

If "anchoring" actually worked (as in, if you div with, say, a t6 and 7, the highest tier you should see is t8, not t9) - then it'd be ok. As things are, it's not. Most of the time it's mirrored but I've seen situations where it wasn't. As things stand the only acceptable different-tier division is a 9-10... Maybe just allow it above t8?

 

Well actually that needs 2 things:

 

1. Fix anchoring as you stated

2. Faildivs have no wait time limit on MM so they don't screw up MM for other people ....

 

And there needs to be a warning about the time limit when a faildiv is created.

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[CAIN]
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1 hour ago, arquata2019 said:

ya know, i met an akatsuki with my hakuryu

that was fun

It should be known by now, that no matter what you face in your Hakuryu, it is screwed. ^^

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30 minuti fa, Jethro_Grey ha scritto:

It should be known by now, that no matter what you face in your Hakuryu, it is screwed. ^^

well, if i don't have 2000 ping matches like today...

btw, i am good at hakuryu when i see my team is good, and then i carry it

otherwise, well, i don't give a **** about it

anyone else experiencing 2000 ping matches today?

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Players
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we play tier 8-9 or 9-10 divs and I haven't seen any issues on EU server even in midnight. Out of last 20 div battles one was assymetric, 1 DD vs 2 DDs, other then that all was fine. And honestly division players WR is of more importance then getting bottom or upper tier division. Bad players don't cooperate even in division, but good players do. 

 

And I consider ability to make different lvl divisions without them becoming 'fail' one of the major MM improvements. Especially on tiers 8-9-10.

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[CHEFT]
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It should be possible for T8/9/10 (T8 should be able to div with T9 and T9 should be able to div with T10) but not for any other Tier.

That way those players would still only face enemies they would normally face in their ship.

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[LADA]
[LADA]
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I voted no - CV snipe antics are hilarious and should be encouraged - not discouraged. 

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I voted yes;

 

The rest of the team more often than not gets punished by a fail div playing on their side. If they are lucky they are matched by another fail div, and more often then not you end up in completely lopsided MatchMaking. Even worse, I get the impression that most of the time, the fail div players are not good players at all, making it a double handicap for one team.

 

I can see allowing it for T8+ (since you end up with MM that is within 'normal' bounds). But anything lower? No.

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The Tier 8-10 is interesting, as I don't view it as a fail division if you can't be up tiered above your usual spread.

There is potentially a very remote chance of a weird queue dump if literally no other tier 8/9 ships were queuing but at that point the matchmaker has bigger problems.

If you can't queue as divisions that can up tier members, there still should be a message or *anything* warning players they could be.

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