Santa containers "rigged": WG Chooses Your Santa Gift Ship

[Formul]

4 minutes ago, albin322 said:

you do know evrything was broadcasted with a 5 minute delay. so no he was reacting to something else mr smart ! 

the notification is embeded in the video, there is no delay between it and his reaction ...

[ReapingKnight]

I will admit I again over spent on crates (lack of my own will power) and I was less affected by the 'shortlist' as I had already gotten most of those ships (you guessed it in previous Christmas Crates).

 

So in my case it has less impact on my results than those who don't have the 'shortlisted' ships but I am now curious of the shortlisted ships I did get from the crates what I could have received instead...🤔 and thats what has annoyed me the most that I got a ship drop but it was never a 1 out of 127 something ships or in my case less as I own a few already but 1 out of 4 that are honestly the more mediocre ships as well.

[albin322]

28 minutes ago, Formul said:

the notification is embeded in the video, there is no delay between it and his reaction ...

yes there is, they eaven said so i nthe begining of the stream. that the whole broadcast was delayed by 5 minutes! 

[Kazomir]

20 minutes ago, ReapingKnight said:

I will admit I again over spent on crates (lack of my own will power) and I was less affected by the 'shortlist' as I had already gotten most of those ships (you guessed it in previous Christmas Crates).

 

So in my case it has less impact on my results than those who don't have the 'shortlisted' ships but I am now curious of the shortlisted ships I did get from the crates what I could have received instead...🤔 and thats what has annoyed me the most that I got a ship drop but it was never a 1 out of 127 something ships or in my case less as I own a few already but 1 out of 4 that are honestly the more mediocre ships as well.

Well, herein lies the issue: You were deceived as to the real possibility of ship drop rates in order to honeypot you to spend more. The store page de jure states that 107 ships can drop from the crates, presumably without any prerequisites. What you get de facto is that only 4 ships can drop from the crate, And only then if you receive a duplicate of one of those ships, you get a supercontainer that CAN contain the 107 ships previously advertised.

 

Mind that Nobody has enough data to tell if the Supercontainers that are received from receiving duplicate ships from the Santa crates dont ALSO have a hidden Gotcha mechanic that prioritizes crap common ships first. Because I've seen hella lot Makarovs dropping from them AS WELL.

 

This whole issue is brought about by Wargaming not stating Ship Drop percentages and drop mechanics. Which is, again, in some developed countries that Wargaming operates in, Illegal. 

[Von_Pruss]

58 minutes ago, Atris2nd said:

My advice is, play the games if you enjoy them. Don't play them if you don't enjoy them. If you wish to make a statement about bad business practices, then don't buy their crap. I'll admit I bought 8 containers, but after I found out they're rigged, I'm not buying anymore until the issue is addressed. 

So in other words you allow yourself getting scammed and treated as a sheep, but when the "issue is being adressed" you continue to pay? This is the main problem. People getting scammed and forgiving the scammers - until the get a russian reach around again. Everyone should immediately uninstall all of WG's crap and never look back. Does no one really wonder what is going on behind the scenes, if they try to scam their community that obviously and cheap on the surface?

[TunaRoll]

I read this on reddit and i like the idea: We should get some gaming magazines/jounrals (PCGamer, Polygon, Gamestar, and so son) on this topic. It is very clickbate-able and people NEED to be warned before getting "tricked" into this scam and loose a lot of money for useless low/midtier ships.

[arttuperkunas]

7 minutes ago, Kazomir said:

Well, herein lies the issue: You were deceived as to the real possibility of ship drop rates in order to honeypot you to spend more. The store page de jure states that 107 ships can drop from the crates, presumably without any prerequisites. What you get de facto is that only 4 ships can drop from the crate, And only then if you receive a duplicate of one of those ships, you get a supercontainer that CAN contain the 107 ships previously advertised.

 

Mind that Nobody has enough data to tell if the Supercontainers that are received from receiving duplicate ships from the Santa crates dont ALSO have a hidden Gotcha mechanic that prioritizes crap common ships first. Because I've seen hella lot Makarovs dropping from them AS WELL.

 

This whole issue is brought about by Wargaming not stating Ship Drop percentages and drop mechanics. Which is, again, in some developed countries that Wargaming operates in, Illegal. 

I'm quite sure the SC drops are also weighted towards lower tier premiums. And, for me, that's OK, and what I expected when purchasing the crates. Like what I got from the one SC that dropped was a Lazo, which I totally don't want, but I'm not crying about that, as that was the risk that I accepted when I purchased the container.

 

What I and everyone else is upset about is the shortlist, as I certainly did not know about, and probably wouldn't have made the purchase had I known about it.

[Kazomir]

1 minute ago, TunaRoll said:

I read this on reddit and i like the idea: We should get some gaming magazines/jounrals (PCGamer, Polygon, Gamestar, and so son) on this topic. It is very clickbate-able and people NEED to be warned before getting "tricked" into this scam and loose a lot of money for useless low/midtier ships.

Actually, the money-per-ship value of the crates is very nice, even if the ships themselves are not the best in their tier they are workable. It is just ruined by the false advertisement.

 

1 minute ago, arttuperkunas said:

I'm quite sure the SC drops are also weighted towards lower tier premiums. And, for me, that's OK, and what I expected when purchasing the crates. Like what I got from the one SC that dropped was a Lazo, which I totally don't want, but I'm not crying about that, as that was the risk that I accepted when I purchased the container.

 

What I and everyone else is upset about is the shortlist, as I certainly did not know about, and probably wouldn't have made the purchase had I known about it.

 

Yea as I mentioned, Noone is sure if the supercontainers don't have a shortlist themselves. AS in, you buy Mega contaienrs which don't have Makarov on their shortlist, and the first Supercontainer you get from those mega containers contains a Makarov (or another shortlisted ships from the lesser crates)? I've seen that 2-3 times from youtube clips already and it stinks of foul play also. 

[Oberst_Heinrich_von_Hobe]

Hey guy =)

 

Is there any statement from WG so far?

[RAYvenMP]

these boxes were never random (except maybe the first year). There was always "shortlist" will low tier crap you had to get through to get some real goodies. This year they just made the shortlist really short to it was very obvious

There will never be even chance to get T5 and T9... not ever.

Imagine a "fair" system where all the drops are random but chances get lower the higher tier - ex. 10% chance for T5 and 1% chance for T9 and on top of that they will enable us to get duplicates (compensated). Do you really think that will be better?

Right now there is plenty of ppl who own the low tier stuff, and quite a few who own the shortlist. You can essentially predict what you get next making ppl's hunt for the rare ones much easier over years

 

WGs fail at communication aside, I would be really interested to know what you imagine would be best (most cost effective) way for the boxes to work, because right know and for me personally current system is much better than complete RNG.

Also, i am pretty sure that WG was not trying to hide or scam us, it impossible for them to believe that no one will notice that there are 3 ships dropping all over, it was once again just creating something but failing to describe it properly on the store page...

 

if someone is hunting Missouri/Belfast/GC right now, with every premium he already own his chance increase dramatically. In full blown RNG boxes it would be near impossible to get.

Not saying its perfect system now, just be careful what you ask for

[TunaRoll]

Vor 6 Minuten, Kazomir sagte:

Actually, the money-per-ship value of the crates is very nice, even if the ships themselves are not the best in their tier they are workable. It is just ruined by the false advertisement.

 

 

Yea as I mentioned, Noone is sure if the supercontainers don't have a shortlist themselves. AS in, you buy Mega contaienrs which don't have Makarov on their shortlist, and the first Supercontainer you get from those mega containers contains a Makarov (or another shortlisted ships from the lesser crates)? I've seen that 2-3 times from youtube clips already and it stinks of foul play also. 

The money-per-ship value is only "debateable" if you truly believe that some USELESS, powercrept and underpowerd T5 and T6 ships are as valueable as WG says with its price tag. Therefore, its just an imagination, made by WG.

 

In reality: in the eyes of the community, those bunch of t5 and t6 ships are definitely NOT worth the money because you could buy one or two strong T8-T9  ships just like the Massachusetts. 

 

The "false advertisement" is the actual fraud and scam part in this lootbox scandal, yes.

[Shaka_D]

9 minutes ago, RAYvenMP said:

these boxes were never random (except maybe the first year). There was always "shortlist" will low tier crap you had to get through to get some real goodies. This year they just made the shortlist really short to it was very obvious

There will never be even chance to get T5 and T9... not ever.

Imagine a "fair" system where all the drops are random but chances get lower the higher tier - ex. 10% chance for T5 and 1% chance for T9 and on top of that they will enable us to get duplicates (compensated). Do you really think that will be better?

Right now there is plenty of ppl who own the low tier stuff, and quite a few who own the shortlist. You can essentially predict what you get next making ppl's hunt for the rare ones much easier over years

 

WGs fail at communication aside, I would be really interested to know what you imagine would be best (most cost effective) way for the boxes to work, because right know and for me personally current system is much better than complete RNG.

Also, i am pretty sure that WG was not trying to hide or scam us, it impossible for them to believe that no one will notice that there are 3 ships dropping all over, it was once again just creating something but failing to describe it properly on the store page...

There are so many things you said that are wrong. In fact, most of what you said is plainly wrong. Need I quote argumentum ad antiquitatem?

 

It doesn't help you understating what most here know as a blatant attempt by WG to manipulate the outcome of what are suppose to be random drops. This is not an accident. The fact you underplay this so much and so casually dismiss WG's 'fail at communication' is beyond belief and to make it worse you then opt to ask us what we would suggest? This is NOT a failure to communicate anything.....that comes after the fact. Their wording is not a mistake, its clearly misleading, again. How about we suggest they don't deliberately lie, mislead and manipulate?

 

Honestly, people like you are infuriating with your halo'esk view toward WG so much so that you can't see the truth for what it is.

[Kazomir]

28 minutes ago, TunaRoll said:

The money-per-ship value is only "debateable" if you truly believe that some USELESS, powercrept and underpowerd T5 and T6 ships are as valueable as WG says with its price tag. Therefore, its just an imagination, made by WG.

 

In reality: in the eyes of the community, those bunch of t5 and t6 ships are definitely NOT worth the money because you could buy one or two strong T8-T9  ships just like the Massachusetts. 

 

The "false advertisement" is the actual fraud and scam part in this lootbox scandal, yes.

It is also debatable if the Makarov and Cali for example are useless and powercrept. Not the best? Maybe, but definitely workable. I wouldnt be mad at receiving them from containers if the containers were fairly labeled. 

[Taliesn]

1 hour ago, Kazomir said:

Well, herein lies the issue: You were deceived as to the real possibility of ship drop rates in order to honeypot you to spend more. The store page de jure states that 107 ships can drop from the crates, presumably without any prerequisites. What you get de facto is that only 4 ships can drop from the crate, And only then if you receive a duplicate of one of those ships, you get a supercontainer that CAN contain the 107 ships previously advertised.

 

Mind that Nobody has enough data to tell if the Supercontainers that are received from receiving duplicate ships from the Santa crates dont ALSO have a hidden Gotcha mechanic that prioritizes crap common ships first. Because I've seen hella lot Makarovs dropping from them AS WELL.

 

This whole issue is brought about by Wargaming not stating Ship Drop percentages and drop mechanics. Which is, again, in some developed countries that Wargaming operates in, Illegal. 

 

Which ones?

[Kazomir]

1 minute ago, Taliesn said:

 

Which ones?

The ones in the EU that have any sort of laws against false advertising, which means pretty much everyone.

[Mimos_A]

2 minutes ago, Taliesn said:

 

Which ones?

 

I doubt it's actually illegal anywhere, I can't imagine them being thick enough to not have the legal department look into it before going ahead with it. It is however very much riding the gray area. And of course, the way it's presented versus the reality is simply a scummy move towards customers.

[Nick663]

1 minute ago, Mimos_A said:

 

I doubt it's actually illegal anywhere, I can't imagine them being thick enough to not have the legal department look into it before going ahead with it. It is however very much riding the gray area. And of course, the way it's presented versus the reality is simply a scummy move towards customers.

There are a lot of nations in the EU not allowing gambling without the correct drop rates. False advertising the chances to win is also a big no-no. If you tried getting money back with a lawyer in germany, it would be no problem. 

[Mimos_A]

3 minutes ago, Nick663 said:

There are a lot of nations in the EU not allowing gambling without the correct drop rates. False advertising the chances to win is also a big no-no. If you tried getting money back with a lawyer in germany, it would be no problem.  

Thing is, loot boxes are pretty much a gray area when it comes to gambling laws. The only country that made it's mind up so far is Belgium (where loot boxes aren't available). This is far from the open-and-close case people think it is.

 

Don't get me wrong, I think it SHOULD be illegal to misrepresent what might drop from loot boxes in this way, but as it stands now, AFAIK it's technically not.

[Taliesn]

4 minutes ago, Kazomir said:

The ones in the EU that have any sort of laws against false advertising, which means pretty much everyone.

 

So you don't know. Every EU country has laws against false adversiting and you're guessing what WG does is illegal under those laws. Look around you, watch the tv, the billboards, those popups on your pc or your phone. I'm afraid you are going to be hugely dissappointed.

 

3 minutes ago, Mimos_A said:

 

I doubt it's actually illegal anywhere, I can't imagine them being thick enough to not have the legal department look into it before going ahead with it. It is however very much riding the gray area. And of course, the way it's presented versus the reality is simply a scummy move towards customers.

 

Well you can always count on a company to finally fupp up but yeah, what they do is being just enough vague with their descriptions to coast it.

[dan_matt]

You know its bad when Flamu is annoyed/disgusted and Flambass decides he is stepping back abit from WoWs, Wargaming really know how to alienate the fanbase and players. Personally I believe what WG have done borders on illegal with gambling and false RNG with some very false advertising thrown in aswell. At somepoint they will cross the line and some people will start lawyering up. I for one will not be spending money this christmas, or at least until this issue is dealt with properly and not blamed on the playerbase

[Asta__Roth]

Law requires developers to show drop percentages in China. AFAIK WG isn't selling any lootboxes in Chinese version of the game.

 

WG shows these percentages in their console games, as ESA and console manufactures require it. No such a deal exists for PC platform, even tho some developers volutarily joined in.

[HARBINGER_OF_SKULLS]

It makes a difference if you are selling lottery tickets advertising the chance to win the jackpot by buying a ticket, while in reality there is no direct jackpot ticket at all, but you need at least two minor winning tickets to get a chance to win the jackpot with the second one.

[Starchy_Tuber]

11 minutes ago, Mimos_A said:

 

I doubt it's actually illegal anywhere, I can't imagine them being thick enough to not have the legal department look into it before going ahead with it. It is however very much riding the gray area. And of course, the way it's presented versus the reality is simply a scummy move towards customers.

lols, srsly, lols

the reason this statement is taking so long is because they literally JUST now spoke to somebody with an ounce of legla EU knowledge and s/he told them they dun fkd up

[Kazomir]

11 minutes ago, Taliesn said:

 

So you don't know. Every EU country has laws against false adversiting and you're guessing what WG does is illegal under those laws. Look around you, watch the tv, the billboards, those popups on your pc or your phone. I'm afraid you are going to be hugely dissappointed.

 

 

Well you can always count on a company to finally fupp up but yeah, what they do is being just enough vague with their descriptions to coast it.

 

Lets be honest here. Neither one of us is a Law expert, and whether WG is breaking the law or not can only be confirmed by a court of law. The only thing for certain that I can tell you is that those lootboxes are misrepresented and you actually are not getting what is stated on the product page.

 

Sadly, boomer governments haven't quite yet caught up to modern gaming trends aka. scum practices. (There is also the movement - at least in my country - for real gambling to try rebrand itself as "gaming" to additionally muddy the waters)

[RAYvenMP]

59 minutes ago, Shaka_D said:

There are so many things you said that are wrong. In fact, most of what you said is plainly wrong. Need I quote argumentum ad antiquitatem?

 

It doesn't help you understating what most here know as a blatant attempt by WG to manipulate the outcome of what are suppose to be random drops. This is not an accident. The fact you underplay this so much and so casually dismiss WG's 'fail at communication' is beyond belief and to make it worse you then opt to ask us what we would suggest? This is NOT a failure to communicate anything.....that comes after the fact. Their wording is not a mistake, its clearly misleading, again. How about we suggest they don't deliberately lie, mislead and manipulate?

 

Honestly, people like you are infuriating with your halo'esk view toward WG so much so that you can't see the truth for what it is.

so many wrongs yet i missed your arguments somehow?

You think that WG made shortlist of 3 ships out of pool of ~130 and expected that players wont find out? Problem at WGs is that DEVs and PR don't even talk the same language, they create something and fail to deliver it in a comprehensive way to customers. Does not make them any less wrong, but to believe its some intentional secret agenda to cheat the players is ridiculous. And if they really are that dumb, good for us, because it took few hours to uncover this hidden plot and we are safe

My main argument was not the situation about the loot boxes but what players expectations are they should be like, because i am pretty sure i wont like full RNG boxes compared to current ones at all.