Humorpalanta ∞ Players 2,025 posts 13,785 battles Report post #1 Posted November 30, 2020 Okay, am I the only one around here who thinks rushing and introducing the new skill system is utterly stupid??? I mean they just barely announced the work on it and they are already bringing it in 0.10??? There is not going to be any widespread test... No opinion is respected from the playerbase regarding it... I think a major change like this should run through systemic testing with at least 3-4 rounds before even trying to bring it to the normal game! Is everybody completely out of their mind at WG or what the hell is going on here? This skill system is going to cause more damage to the game (and I cannot believe I am saying this...) than the CV Reeework. This is just crazy and stupid... I did not buy anything from them since '19 July (only that 1 thing in that year) and it seems it is not going to change... 37 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[SHAD] Miscommunication_dept Players 5,512 posts 24,441 battles Report post #2 Posted November 30, 2020 Remember all the texting they did with the CV rework? I'm not sure it makes any difference at all.... 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[DK-CP] Nitten79 Players 54 posts 15,457 battles Report post #3 Posted November 30, 2020 The point of this is actually so people will stop talking about the CV rework 2 11 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[WGP2W] LemonadeWarriorITA [WGP2W] Beta Tester 1,669 posts 8,186 battles Report post #4 Posted November 30, 2020 7 minutes ago, Nitten79 said: The point of this is actually so people will stop talking about the CV rework Wait, did you miss the entire submarine stuff? 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[DK-CP] Nitten79 Players 54 posts 15,457 battles Report post #5 Posted November 30, 2020 (edited) 3 minutes ago, LemonadeWarriorITA said: Wait, did you miss the entire submarine stuff? that did not work, after several test rounds and people still talked about the CV rework, so they needed something bigger :) Edited November 30, 2020 by Nitten79 typo 1 13 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyllon Players 2,588 posts Report post #6 Posted November 30, 2020 6 hours ago, Humorpalanta said: Okay, am I the only one around here who thinks rushing and introducing the new skill system is utterly stupid??? Of course not. But who cares? Average potato? I'm pretty sure doesn't. And players that do, are in the vast minority. I've reached my limit of issues I can tolerate long time ago and I've given up on this game. Nothing is going to change in the way WG operates. They don't care, why would I? 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[CDD] Dutchy_2019 Players 1,927 posts 13,486 battles Report post #7 Posted November 30, 2020 43 minutes ago, Humorpalanta said: Okay, am I the only one around here who thinks rushing and introducing the new skill system is utterly stupid??? I mean they just barely announced the work on it and they are already bringing it in 0.10??? There is not going to be any widespread test... No opinion is respected from the playerbase regarding it... I think a major change like this should run through systemic testing with at least 3-4 rounds before even trying to bring it to the normal game! Is everybody completely out of their mind at WG or what the hell is going on here? This skill system is going to cause more damage to the game (and I cannot believe I am saying this...) than the CV Reeework. This is just crazy and stupid... I did not buy anything from them since '19 July (only that 1 thing in that year) and it seems it is not going to change... Ahum. - Originally this was supposed to be implemented THIS upcoming patch! They made the first announcement on SEPTEMBER 1st in the Dev Blog. - Based on the feedback from the community on that Dev Blog post FROM SEPTEMBER (and presumably closed testing) they have already come to the conclusion that introcuding it in 9.11 is NOT an option. - Presumably this skills rework WILL be tested on PTS. - We all have seen how effective (forced) community testing of new concepts has been with the Submarine testing. It was NOT an effective test. So the only way to effectively test the whole thing is by actually putting it out there on the live server. - The only way to test such a thing is throwing it out there on the live server, and see how all kinds of players actually deal with the issues. It is the very reason why Ship Testers are taken from the player base as a whole (and yeah, apparently there are Ship Testers out there with a 40% Win Rate!), and on occasion with specific missions, and ships are tested on the live server. Because - as it turns out - PTS is NOT a reliable test bed for that kind of thing. In general, I think that an overhaul of Captain skills is long overdue, and I generally like the idea of captains being specialized for one Tech Tree ship, yet being able to be specced for different classes of Premium Ships. It would be a massive help with training captains - and in many ways might actually hurt WG ship sales since in theory one Premium per nation is sufficient to (re)train captains! How the new skills work out is to be seen. And a lot of it will hinge on the response of WG to feedback from the public, testers, CC's and in-game data. 1 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[-EXS-] Hades_warrior Players 5,381 posts 6,643 battles Report post #8 Posted November 30, 2020 50 minutes ago, Nitten79 said: The point of this is actually so people will stop talking about the CV rework Nothing can prevent people from talking about WC rework. Only thing that could is - removing that class from game 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[PEZ] Yedwy Players 11,301 posts 39,586 battles Report post #9 Posted November 30, 2020 27 minutes ago, Dutchy_2019 said: - Originally this was supposed to be implemented THIS upcoming patch! No it wasnt, when they had that game director guy on stream he said skills are coming 0.10.0 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Humorpalanta ∞ Players 2,025 posts 13,785 battles Report post #10 Posted November 30, 2020 55 minutes ago, Dutchy_2019 said: Ahum. - Originally this was supposed to be implemented THIS upcoming patch! They made the first announcement on SEPTEMBER 1st in the Dev Blog. - Based on the feedback from the community on that Dev Blog post FROM SEPTEMBER (and presumably closed testing) they have already come to the conclusion that introcuding it in 9.11 is NOT an option. - Presumably this skills rework WILL be tested on PTS. - We all have seen how effective (forced) community testing of new concepts has been with the Submarine testing. It was NOT an effective test. So the only way to effectively test the whole thing is by actually putting it out there on the live server. - The only way to test such a thing is throwing it out there on the live server, and see how all kinds of players actually deal with the issues. It is the very reason why Ship Testers are taken from the player base as a whole (and yeah, apparently there are Ship Testers out there with a 40% Win Rate!), and on occasion with specific missions, and ships are tested on the live server. Because - as it turns out - PTS is NOT a reliable test bed for that kind of thing. In general, I think that an overhaul of Captain skills is long overdue, and I generally like the idea of captains being specialized for one Tech Tree ship, yet being able to be specced for different classes of Premium Ships. It would be a massive help with training captains - and in many ways might actually hurt WG ship sales since in theory one Premium per nation is sufficient to (re)train captains! How the new skills work out is to be seen. And a lot of it will hinge on the response of WG to feedback from the public, testers, CC's and in-game data. Dude. What are you talking about? This is a basic rework of the foundations of the game itself... It should be heavily tested before even considering it to throw on the live server... Have you ever worked around IT? 3 or 4 rounds of testings are the minimum in case of a heavy change of a softwer... After like 2-3 tests it could be introduced to live server as a separate and tested if the community accepts it or not and then change the WHOLE FKIN GAME. 7 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[MORIA] Johnny_Moneto Beta Tester 2,903 posts 22,225 battles Report post #11 Posted November 30, 2020 Vor 35 Minuten, Humorpalanta sagte: This is a basic rework of the foundations of the game itself... It should be heavily tested before even considering it to throw on the live server... Have you ever worked around IT? Don't worry. WG knows what's best for us. 13 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zieten Beta Tester 298 posts 6,940 battles Report post #12 Posted November 30, 2020 I am sure we will be testing it. And then they will "finetune" it, change a lot of stuff and then release it without further testing - as usual. 2 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[CDD] Dutchy_2019 Players 1,927 posts 13,486 battles Report post #13 Posted November 30, 2020 34 minutes ago, Humorpalanta said: Dude. What are you talking about? This is a basic rework of the foundations of the game itself... It should be heavily tested before even considering it to throw on the live server... Have you ever worked around IT? 3 or 4 rounds of testings are the minimum in case of a heavy change of a softwer... After like 2-3 tests it could be introduced to live server as a separate and tested if the community accepts it or not and then change the WHOLE FKIN GAME. Did you read my post? Presumably, THEY HAVE BEEN TESTING THIS THING INTERNALLY for a while now! 1) This rework was already announced THREE MONTHS AGO!!! 2) We have no clue to what extent this was tested on closed servers. We only know that WG announced that based on certain developments (which could well have included closed server testing, as we know WG uses closed server testing) an introduction of the new skills in 0.9.11 - which was the ORIGINAL intention - was not realistic. Again, announced IIRC in a Dev Blog Post. I would be STUNNED if this new thing will NOT be tested on PTS, possibly already the upcoming test session. WG has made several attempts to do exactly what you wish for: use separate game instances for testing. It is called PTS, and it was done with the submarines. THE VAST MAJORITY of the player base is/was not even interested in EITHER of them, and MASSIVELY complained about methods by which WG tried to make testing more valid. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[CDD] Dutchy_2019 Players 1,927 posts 13,486 battles Report post #14 Posted November 30, 2020 1 hour ago, Yedwy said: No it wasnt, when they had that game director guy on stream he said skills are coming 0.10.0 Quoted from the Dev Blog Post of September 1st, 2020: ****************** ST, CHANGES TO THE COMMANDER SKILLS SYSTEM Please note that all information in the development blog is preliminary and subject to change during testing. Any showcased features may or may not end up on the main server. The final information will be published on our game's website. In the near future, there will be а ST of the updated commander skills system. At the moment, we plan to update the skills in 0.9.11. We will conduct several stages of testing and will closely monitor your feedback. ************* BTW, the fact that the refer to there being a ST of the updated Commander Skill Tree means that: - There has been AT LEAST one round of testing of the skills internally (as - per the words of multiple CC's - there is internal closed server testing before ST's get their hands on something). - There has been AT LEAST one round of Super Testing The fact that they postponed the release of the updated skill tree and are willing to release it in 10.0 suggests that there might already have been a few additional rounds of testing, or there will be in the near future. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[PEZ] Yedwy Players 11,301 posts 39,586 battles Report post #15 Posted November 30, 2020 38 minutes ago, Dutchy_2019 said: snip And the big guy few days later on stream said it wont be 9.11 but 0.10.0 so the devblog with "at the moment we plan maybe to do it at xyz" fell straight down the drain... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[S-E] FixCVs_Nautical_Metaphor Players 3,532 posts 29,238 battles Report post #16 Posted November 30, 2020 Vor 1 Stunde, Humorpalanta sagte: 3 or 4 rounds of testings are the minimum in case of a heavy change of a softwer... Yes, with normal software companies that try to follow long established industry best-practice. But as we all know, Wargaming are even, ehm well, "struggling" with basic quality assurance. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[2DQT] rimmer_the Players 407 posts Report post #17 Posted November 30, 2020 3 hours ago, Humorpalanta said: Okay, am I the only one around here who thinks rushing and introducing the new skill system is utterly stupid??? I mean they just barely announced the work on it and they are already bringing it in 0.10??? There is not going to be any widespread test... No opinion is respected from the playerbase regarding it... I think a major change like this should run through systemic testing with at least 3-4 rounds before even trying to bring it to the normal game! Is everybody completely out of their mind at WG or what the hell is going on here? This skill system is going to cause more damage to the game (and I cannot believe I am saying this...) than the CV Reeework. This is just crazy and stupid... I did not buy anything from them since '19 July (only that 1 thing in that year) and it seems it is not going to change... WG for whatever reason thinks the game needs to change that fast. Or they are secretly behind on schedule for this, and Victor Klisky has been moody. I can think of a few reasons. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Taliesn Players 2,238 posts 16,405 battles Report post #18 Posted November 30, 2020 It is a bad idea. Nothing that will break this game, but it is rushed and unnecessarily so. An own goal waiting to happen. There are some obvious fupp ups for a number of cruisers (on top of a general lack of choices) As it stands now, you could double the number of cruiser skills to accommodate for more builds and avoid these fupp ups. It is not as if the cruiser class is OP and if individual ships are, then they should be trated on an individual basis anyway. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[NECRO] HARBINGER_OF_SKULLS [NECRO] Players 1,540 posts Report post #19 Posted November 30, 2020 I am confident that WG will even exceed the epic success of the CV rework with the upcoming skill rework. Once again the playerbase will weep tears of utter joy and rain praise upon WG for their dedication to satisfy the community with perfectly balanced game mechanics. 1 6 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[-TPF-] invicta2012 Players 6,382 posts 26,855 battles Report post #20 Posted November 30, 2020 1 hour ago, Dutchy_2019 said: Did you read my post? Presumably, THEY HAVE BEEN TESTING THIS THING INTERNALLY for a while now! With all due respect, does anyone have much faith in WGs internal testing practices after the CV rework, subs, etc etc? The players have already shown obvious problems with the new skill sets, the ships that will be buffed and the ships that will not - and that last category includes a bunch of premiums, btw. It would be nice to know some of this informed feedback has been taken into account. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[R3B3L] HystericalAccuracy Players 1,505 posts 40,428 battles Report post #21 Posted November 30, 2020 Battlecruisers (...) will no longer be able to use some of the BB skills, mainly survivability ones. finally, Azuma was too sturdy anyway. After reading a few more lines of "moar gimmicks which everyone (below the age of 12) wanted" i tuned out. WG, what are you doing? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[CAIN] Jethro_Grey Players 5,207 posts 25,733 battles Report post #22 Posted November 30, 2020 5 hours ago, Humorpalanta said: Okay, am I the only one around here who thinks rushing and introducing the new skill system is utterly stupid??? I mean they just barely announced the work on it and they are already bringing it in 0.10??? There is not going to be any widespread test... No opinion is respected from the playerbase regarding it... I think a major change like this should run through systemic testing with at least 3-4 rounds before even trying to bring it to the normal game! Is everybody completely out of their mind at WG or what the hell is going on here? This skill system is going to cause more damage to the game (and I cannot believe I am saying this...) than the CV Reeework. This is just crazy and stupid... I did not buy anything from them since '19 July (only that 1 thing in that year) and it seems it is not going to change... But they did test it. They wrote the idea down, gave it to some exec who talked with some underlings who confirmed that the skill rework will be crap and disliked because it screws over DDs and Cruisers. On the plus side, a lot more folks will buy dubloons to retrain captains, which is a plus...actually, it's the only plus that matters to WG. You see? Internal testing shows, it's perfect. 3 6 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[NTT] arquata2019_ Players 2,248 posts 17,474 battles Report post #23 Posted November 30, 2020 5 ore fa, Humorpalanta ha scritto: Okay, am I the only one around here who thinks rushing and introducing the new skill system is utterly stupid??? I mean they just barely announced the work on it and they are already bringing it in 0.10??? There is not going to be any widespread test... No opinion is respected from the playerbase regarding it... I think a major change like this should run through systemic testing with at least 3-4 rounds before even trying to bring it to the normal game! Is everybody completely out of their mind at WG or what the hell is going on here? This skill system is going to cause more damage to the game (and I cannot believe I am saying this...) than the CV Reeework. This is just crazy and stupid... I did not buy anything from them since '19 July (only that 1 thing in that year) and it seems it is not going to change... wargaming is a fan of my (i invented this in my brain this summer) of the WhyNot topic, they said, rework carriers? Why Not! nerf aa? Why Not! making the game pay to win? Why Not! clan battles with cvs and soon subs? Heck yes! introducing something that our players can't test in game and can only read images and files? Why Not?! 1 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[NTT] arquata2019_ Players 2,248 posts 17,474 battles Report post #24 Posted November 30, 2020 5 ore fa, gopher31 ha scritto: Remember all the texting they did with the CV rework? ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CaptainObvious007 Players 157 posts 21,148 battles Report post #25 Posted November 30, 2020 One could argue the whole game is one giant beta test .. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
