Budyonny and Russian cruiser skills in general

[SirTogII]

There are some topics but I haven't been able to figure out what skills I'm suppose to use after the IFHE changes. 

Currently I have the Budyonny and the Krazny Krim and separate captains for them both.

Budy cap: PT, AR, SI, CE    KK cap: PT, AR, BFT, AFT (taken from a youtuber vid on how to make it work the best as a tier 5 Smolensk type HE spammer)

I'm reluctant to change the latter as it seems to work very well and I can always reskill the captain later on when I get higher up the line and need him elsewhere. The Budy captain however I have no idea if I should keep what I have or change for IFHE or what? 

Would really appreciate your thoughts.

 

[HARBINGER_OF_SKULLS]

I got the KK from a supercontainer today, and tbh I have not yet made up my mind about captain skills. As the guns are <140mm, BFT and AFT sound reasonable, and I guess DE is a good choice, too.

[SirTogII]

Yeah I think it's kind of "off the beaten path" as those skills aren't useful for the rest of the tree (could be wrong as I am a noob). It's more the Budy captain I am interested in knowing what to think about both for that ship and further up the tree. Cheers

[RenamedUser_92906789]

54 minutes ago, SirTogII said:

Yeah I think it's kind of "off the beaten path" as those skills aren't useful for the rest of the tree (could be wrong as I am a noob). It's more the Budy captain I am interested in knowing what to think about both for that ship and further up the tree. Cheers

 

You want to build a captain for Nevsky.

Hence thats why SI.

 

Petropavlovsk requires different (battleship style) build.

 

I like IFHE on Soviet light cruisers.

 

 

[invicta2012]

53 minutes ago, SirTogII said:

KK cap: PT, AR, BFT, AFT (taken from a youtuber vid on how to make it work the best as a tier 5 Smolensk type HE spammer)

I still have IFHE on my KK rather than AFT.

 

I think that's quite important because it makes your HE pen 27mm, which means you can get through the deck plating of all the cruisers and most of the battleships you'll see. I also have DE as - although it doesn't make the fire chance great - the combination of at least one fire + constant pen damage tends to freak BB drivers out. 

[SirTogII]

Great, thanks man

[SirTogII]

11 hours ago, invicta2012 said:

I still have IFHE on my KK rather than AFT.

 

I think that's quite important because it makes your HE pen 27mm, which means you can get through the deck plating of all the cruisers and most of the battleships you'll see. I also have DE as - although it doesn't make the fire chance great - the combination of at least one fire + constant pen damage tends to freak BB drivers out. 

So you get more damage our of the shells than you lose from decreased fires? I literally just use it as a fire starter against BBs at the moment and it seems to work well against them and enough damage against DDs and light cruisers to feel reasonably effective. I know it's not supposed to be the most competitive ship but I kind of like it.

 

For the captain in the Budy, would you go for IFHE before concealment or are we talking IFHE as the first skill after the normal 10 point survivability stuff?

 

Thanks again.

[BruceRKF]

11 minutes ago, SirTogII said:

So you get more damage our of the shells than you lose from decreased fires? I literally just use it as a fire starter against BBs at the moment and it seems to work well against them and enough damage against DDs and light cruisers to feel reasonably effective. I know it's not supposed to be the most competitive ship but I kind of like it.

 

For the captain in the Budy, would you go for IFHE before concealment or are we talking IFHE as the first skill after the normal 10 point survivability stuff?

 

Thanks again.

For me, I still take IFHE on all my light cruisers. However not as the 10th point (CE first), but as the 14th or 17th (depending on whether you need SI as in high tiers). Also, I only take IFHE in combination with DE to mitigate some of the lost firechance. So you have a good firestarter early and get a consistent damage dealer later, at which point you should be used to aiming at certain parts of the enemy ship. I still value consistent damage from IFHE more than RNG-based fires, no matter how good your fire chance. Problem with t6 and t7 CLs is of course that you are screwed when uptiered either against high tier cruisers (if you don't have IFHE) or against high tier BBs (if you take IFHE).

[SirTogII]

Good points. I think I might retrain the Budy captain once I get a few more skills on him. You've been very helpful, cheers

[Harvin87]

12 horas antes, nambr9 dijo:

 

You want to build a captain for Nevsky.

Hence thats why SI.

 

Petropavlovsk requires different (battleship style) build.

 

I like IFHE on Soviet light cruisers.

 

 

That APP looks very useful! could you please tell me the name?

thanks.

[RenamedUser_92906789]

2 minutes ago, Harvin87 said:

That APP looks very useful! could you please tell me the name?

thanks.

wowsft.com

[Harvin87]

3 minutos antes, nambr9 dijo:

wowsfit.com

Thanks man.

[invicta2012]

18 minutes ago, SirTogII said:

So you get more damage our of the shells than you lose from decreased fires? I literally just use it as a fire starter against BBs at the moment and it seems to work well against them and enough damage against DDs and light cruisers to feel reasonably effective. I know it's not supposed to be the most competitive ship but I kind of like it.

Definitely. KK has destroyer calibre guns, so without IFHE you are reduced to 22mm of HE penetration, like a DD. That limits you to damaging DDs, CLs - against CAs and BBs you can really only get penetration damage from hits to the superstructure, and if you're also setting fires that gets saturated quickly. But at this Tier when you have IFHE, there's only a few dreadnoughts that keep you out, and you can always get damage through the bow/stern. 

 

Definitive guide to IFHE and those pesky armour thresholds is here: hhttps://forum.worldofwarships.com/topic/213359-ifhe-all-night-long/

[HaachamaShipping]

Imo, you can toss out IFHE and still not be worse off, but you get 4 more points. Certainly on high tier RU CLs. The fire chance per shell is pretty mediocre and with IFHE, it's downright crap. The dpm up to Chapayev is decent, afterwards it is poor, Nevsky is mediocre at best, especially considering it's a light cruiser. IFHE will give a Nevsky enough pen to farm French and British BBs and you'll be worse off against anyone else. Frankly, imo, just don't bother with IFHE at high tiers, build for 19% fire chance and shoot superstructure or AP. And IFHE Donskoi is likely one of the most pathetic T9 ships there is, good for literally nothing.

[RenamedUser_92906789]

1 hour ago, Harvin87 said:

Thanks man.

I did a typo there. Its "wowsft" and not "wowsfit". 

 

But I guess you found out that one yourself :)

[RenamedUser_92906789]

10 minutes ago, HaachamaShipping said:

Imo, you can toss out IFHE and still not be worse off, but you get 4 more points. Certainly on high tier RU CLs. The fire chance per shell is pretty mediocre and with IFHE, it's downright crap. The dpm up to Chapayev is decent, afterwards it is poor, Nevsky is mediocre at best, especially considering it's a light cruiser. IFHE will give a Nevsky enough pen to farm French and British BBs and you'll be worse off against anyone else. Frankly, imo, just don't bother with IFHE at high tiers, build for 19% fire chance and shoot superstructure or AP. And IFHE Donskoi is likely one of the most pathetic T9 ships there is, good for literally nothing.

 

Always debatable.

 

I prefer higher raw DMG on platings that I could not pen without IFHE, rather than fire chance that is RNG driven in its core.

 

I use Zao, Henry, Hindy, DesMoines for fires (no IFHE there), while on ships such as Newsky or Worchester I prefer IFHE.

Exception is the Smolensk ... I dont use IFHE there just for the fire meme.

[SirTogII]

6 minutes ago, HaachamaShipping said:

Imo, you can toss out IFHE and still not be worse off, but you get 4 more points. Certainly on high tier RU CLs. The fire chance per shell is pretty mediocre and with IFHE, it's downright crap. The dpm up to Chapayev is decent, afterwards it is poor, Nevsky is mediocre at best, especially considering it's a light cruiser. IFHE will give a Nevsky enough pen to farm French and British BBs and you'll be worse off against anyone else. Frankly, imo, just don't bother with IFHE at high tiers, build for 19% fire chance and shoot superstructure or AP. And IFHE Donskoi is likely one of the most pathetic T9 ships there is, good for literally nothing.

Mkay, so definitely 2 different lines of thought then... Well that's what makes the game interesting I guess, that you can spec out the ships differently based on play style and tactics. 

[HaachamaShipping]

3 minutes ago, nambr9 said:

 

Always debatable.

 

I prefer higher raw DMG on platings that I could not pen without IFHE, rather than fire chance that is RNG driven in its core.

 

I use Zao, Henry, Hindy, DesMoines for fires (no IFHE there), while on ships such as Newsky or Worchester I prefer IFHE.

Exception is the Smolensk ... I dont use IFHE there just for the fire meme.

The Nevsky has the dpm and fire setting of a Hindenburg with 30 mm base pen. You can go for IFHE, then you basically can farm two types of BBs. Against cruisers, only Alaska, Riga and PR care about your increased pen. Against everything else in the game you are meanwhile worse of. Given how poor the base dpm is, just getting fires and shooting BB superstructure and staying with AP does more than going for IFHE and gimping your fire chance to subterranean levels.

 

Zao, Henri, Hindenburg and Des Moines are stupid examples, given that almost none of them get meaningful benefits out of IFHE. Though you could argue that you giving the Nevsky IFHE to pen half a dozen ships better is akin to giving the Henri IFHE to pen 50 mm plate. Worth it? Not really, as Henri, just like Nevsky, has poor base dpm for what it is (Henri for a CA, Nevsky for a CL). Or giving Hindenburg IFHE just to pen Kremlin/Soyuz/Yamasushishima deck.

 

And when the value of a skill is a sidegrade, 4 pts is a bit much. I'd argue it'd already be more useful for winning games to pick up RPF on Nevsky as that at least helps you know from which direction you get spotted or where to push to radar the DD. At least that doesn't come with a massive downside.

 

[RenamedUser_92906789]

17 minutes ago, HaachamaShipping said:

Zao, Henri, Hindenburg and Des Moines are stupid examples, given that almost none of them get meaningful benefits out of IFHE. Though you could argue that you giving the Nevsky IFHE to pen half a dozen ships better is akin to giving the Henri IFHE to pen 50 mm plate. Worth it? Not really, as Henri, just like Nevsky, has poor base dpm for what it is (Henri for a CA, Nevsky for a CL). Or giving Hindenburg IFHE just to pen Kremlin/Soyuz/Yamasushishima deck

 

I never said IFHE is viable on those ships. I only said I have enough non IFHE cruisers at my disposal.

 

I am gonna keep IFHE on the Nevsky for the time being, also because I use the captain on Kutuzov.

[BLUB__BLUB]

Found the Russian cruiser line(s) enjoyable, but man, some of them are total duds. 

Seems to me that Donskoi is one, and Tallin is the other. Quite sure it is just me not getting along with them though.

[DFens_666]

4 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

Quite sure it is just me not getting along with them though. 

 

Most people i know say, Tallinn is hot garbage...

[BLUB__BLUB]

Just now, DFens_666 said:

Most people i know say, Tallinn is hot garbage...

Sometimes I do 90K+ games with it, but usually I am the first one to get blapped. 
Feels to me like a Danae at T8, but without the agility - and with lots of T10 matches...

However that captain is from Moskva (as it leads to Petro), maybe I should run the Nevsky captain on it. 

Not a keeper... they say the Riga is nice though. 

[HaachamaShipping]

11 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

 

Most people i know say, Tallinn is hot garbage...

B-But... ItS a BeTTer HiPpeR!

[BLUB__BLUB]

1 minute ago, HaachamaShipping said:

B-But... ItS a BeTTer HiPpeR!

I div up regularly with a clanmate that has Hipper and Tallin to grind... 

I need to grind Tallin and the Charles Martell. And yes Tallin has more powerful AP, and can be good.

But, he usually picks the Hipper... guess why. 

[anonym_ziPQbxoJkOE7]

Personally I wouldn't take IFHE on Buddy. She and Shchors doesn't get the improved HE pen Chapa gets on her 152s so you'd only leg yourself against tier VIII-IX BBs when you're bottom tier

 

 

This is how I'd build mine. SI isn't really useful since You don't play agressively enough to use all your hydro charges, and even if you use your spotter the moment it comes off cooldown I doubt you'd manage to use up all the charges. I'd spend the last 2 points in either High Alert, Expert Marksman or Last Stand. Same build for Shchors, except I'd lean more towards HA and LS since she eats citadels that much easier than Buddy

 

For Chapa, IFHE is a choice. But you could also go for RPF to help yourself against DDs as a Radar cruiser