BB camp counter?

[SettBU]

Ahoy captains!

I have little over 50 hours on record (and probably twice that much in out of game research) and already I see what the state of the game is.
Now the obvious solution would be to grind or buy the Yamato and out-BB the BBs, but frankly: I hate BBs, with passion. I hate facing them and I  hate playing them and I suck playing them. What are the odd I will accurately predict someone's intention 15 seconds ahead in a game where positioning is the key? BB's just aren't for me. Nor do I care for island-hugging all that much, but certainly more than the semi-stationary turret defense. I like to peek in, torp here, broadside there, causing panic left and right, then beating it before overyone's attention turns to me at the rate of 3-4°/s. Not that I'm good at it or anything, mind you.... But I honestly had the most fun in this game when brawling with T2 bots... Also I mostly play alone and the one guy I sometimes team up with is a die hard BB fan (but not one of those guys, thankfully).

Anyway, the question is this: Is there something else in this game, that can effectively fight against those ICBM divisions? Something that can, at least, deal more damage than it receives? Zao? Petropavlovsk? Worcester? Some super sneaky torp-loaded blue hedgehog of a DD?

As a side question: is there something that can survive BB AP salvo, at least when properly angled, that isn't another BB?

TYVM

[GarrusBrutus]

1 minute ago, SettBU said:

Is there something in this game, that can effectively fight against those ICBM divisions? 

20km shima. 

[doerhoff_damian]

Some Cruisers like the Russian Heavy Cruisers can Tank some BB-Ap. (Plating can be overmatched if Caliber of the Gun in cm is 14,3 Times Bigger than the Plating)

 

I use to Counter Camping BBs with my Brawling BBs.

Paolo Emilio is also Desingned to rush and kill any BB that doesn´t move and as a Result can´t run away when a Smokescreen aproaches.

[Asakka]

Yeah, CVs

[Miragetank90]

23 minutes ago, SettBU said:

Is there something else in this game, that can effectively fight against those ICBM divisions? Something that can, at least, deal more damage than it receives? 

 

Have you tried CVs yet? 

 

23 minutes ago, SettBU said:

As a side question: is there something that can survive BB AP salvo, at least when properly angled, that isn't another BB?
 

 

Yes, there are many cruisers that can do that, for instance.

To put it in simple terms, it depends on the armour schemes of said cruisers and the penetration of the BBs in question, as well as whether said BB can overmatch your hull plating or not. 

 

Besides that, you still have your HP to play with and the ability to dodge salvoes or make him overshoot by adjusting your speed and rudder. 

 

If you play properly, you'll very rarely get completely devstruck in a Cruiser. 

[ColonelPete]

17 minutes ago, SettBU said:

Anyway, the question is this: Is there something else in this game, that can effectively fight against those ICBM divisions? Something that can, at least, deal more damage than it receives? Zao? Petropavlovsk? Worcester? Some super sneaky torp-loaded blue hedgehog of a DD?

Not sure what you mean with that, but camping BB are effectivly countered by removing their teammates first, as the camping BB cannot support them.

Without their teammates, it is easy to remove the camping BB.

19 minutes ago, SettBU said:

As a side question: is there something that can survive BB AP salvo, at least when properly angled, that isn't another BB?

Ships that can attack outside the range of BB or ships that can attack from stealth can do that.

This applies to CV, CL behind islands and DD. Otherwise their are some tough CA that can endure some of the BB they face (Hipper, Roon, Hindenburg, Venezia, Supercruisers,...)

[Gvozdika]

Conqueror or Thunderer - BURN EVERYTHING. Nothing encourages people to stop sitting still like a chunk of HE to the face every 25s. 

 

It isn't clever. It isn't sophisticated. Heck, it isn't all that fair. It is very funny though....

 

(Other options of a less spammy nature include Yammy/Mooshi/Shiki for blapping through bowtankers.)

 

Edit to add - the best counter to a turtling BB is another BB unfortunately. A cruiser will always be at a disadvantage in a gunfight. A DD has to survive long enough and make it far enough to get a good torp shot. CVs are for charlatans and thus unworthy of your time.

 

If you are desperate to avoid using BBs - focus on the supporting elements. A bow camper needs vision - so shoot up their destroyers. They need supporting fire vs. fast moving targets - so shoot up the light cruisers. I think you get the general idea - to cripple an enemy team you do not need to focus on the biggest and baddest target on their lineup - especially if you can take other ships out of the fight for less risk.

[DFens_666]

10 minutes ago, Asakka said:

Yeah, CVs

 

8 minutes ago, Miragetank90 said:

Have you tried CVs yet? 

 

 

@ OP

If you already complain at T5, best to not go to T8+... its WAY worse up there.

[ForlornSailor]

36 minutes ago, SettBU said:

But I honestly had the most fun in this game when brawling with T2 bots

 

So the obvious thing would be... keep doing that? Games are suppose to be fun. If thats where you have fun, forget about the rest.

[HARBINGER_OF_SKULLS]

I suggest you instantly buy a premium CV. WG wants it so hard.

[HaachamaShipping]

At low tiers, BB and CV can counter BBs.

 

At high tiers, a good few cruisers can be an absolute pain to BBs. Nevsky if you want them to slowly burn down while preserving a radar for anti-DD work, Hindenburg if you want to see them lose hp more quickly, Yoshino and Goliath if you want to tank return fire at mid range even, where Yoshino matches BB ranges, Goliath just refuses to die.

 

Please note that to get good results with these at higher tiers though, you need to master how to position and how to utilise the high tier armour you get.

[SettBU]

Thanks for the replys, guys.

Divide and conquer is the obvious solution I know - from my own experience, even - yet always forget.

CVs i will try, sooner or later, but I really don't think it should be my first priority. I've seen some very good CV's and some very bad and I don't expect to get very good very fast... There's also about 10 CVs (and 20 BBs) in my queue for every cruiser and destroyer, so that is also a consideration.

What surprised me is the armor suggestions: I was under the impression that cruisers only have 27 or 30mm bow/deck/upper hull plating at most (well, except that soviet thing...). That put's their overmatch value to 378 and 430 mm respectively, which in turn means every single T10 BB can overmatch the former, and only 3 or so get mitigated by the latter. Or am I missing something?

Anyway I'm at odds with myself mostly. i don't like to wait for reloads and turrets, so Worcester seems like a viable solution, but i'm put off by the slow projectiles/low effective range and I'm also kind of terrified of getting oneshotted, as my positioning and map awareness needs some practice yet. That also sums up my idea of the DDs fairly well.

The Petropavlovsk looks like a solution to all durability problems and the railguns would probably help with my aim, but it shares the mediocre effective range problem due to high dispersion (...is what the internet said anyway). Also BB level turret turning. Des Moines is kind of in the midle of the two.

The Zao line seems like THE answer to the original question if utilized properly. How big of an IF is that? Is stealth viable on high tiers?

Finally the Hindenburg and Goliath both appear to be a good compromise of everything. But are compromises any good in this game?

 

PS: I am quite aware I shouldn't focus just on T10 and I'll most likely start another line as soon as i get there. Never the less, an end goal is an end goal and one should keep it in mind, right?

[HaachamaShipping]

4 minutes ago, SettBU said:

Anyway I'm at odds with myself mostly. i don't like to wait for reloads and turrets, so Worcester seems like a viable solution, but i'm put off by the slow projectiles/low effective range and I'm also kind of terrified of getting oneshotted, as my positioning and map awareness needs some practice yet. That also sums up my idea of the DDs fairly well.

The Petropavlovsk looks like a solution to all durability problems and the railguns would probably help with my aim, but it shares the mediocre effective range problem due to high dispersion (...is what the internet said anyway). Also BB level turret turning.

The Zao line seems like THE answer to the original question if utilized properly. How big of an IF is that? Is stealth viable on high tiers?

Finally the Hindenburg appears to be a good compromise of everything. But are compromises any good in this game?

Worcester: No. For fighting BBs even a Des Moines is better. In almost any way a Des Moines is better.

Petropavlovsk: Can tank, can do decent with AP. Won't do much with HE.

Zao: Go play Hindenburg if you want to farm BBs. Hindenburg has better HE dpm, better HE pen, doesn't die as fast, doesn't rely on stealth that gets negated by planes.

Hindenburg: If all you want is kill BBs at T10, this is certainly capable of it. Great dpm, reliable damage, lots of hp to not just die, good range and ballistics.

23 minutes ago, SettBU said:

What surprised me is the armor suggestions: I was under the impression that cruisers only have 27 or 30mm bow/deck/upper hull plating at most (well, except that soviet thing...). That put's their overmatch value to 378 and 430 mm respectively, which in turn means every single T10 BB can overmatch the former, and only 3 or so get mitigated by the latter. Or am I missing something?

Mostly. Petropavlovsk, Moskva and Stalingrad get 50 mm deck, Puerto Rico 37 or 38 mm deck, Goliath gets 40 mm deck. Apart from decks, you would need to try bounce it off the belt armour, meaning shells have to hit the main belt at a sharp angle. Ships like the aforementioned Russians get 50 mm upper belt so anywhere on the side bounces, Goliath has belt armour that goes very high (also meaning if you go broadside, you are almost guaranteed dead), others rely on just mitigating the amount of hits that are citadels. e.g. Yoshino survivability against 457 mm guns isn't that the ship bounces shells a lot, but that if properly angled, most aren't citadels and with over 60k hp, you can survive a good few hits. 

[Camperdown]

Play DD. But it takes time to dismantle the enemy position. First kill red DDs and radar cruisers, then get in with the torps.

If you want to play cruiser: I like Alaska a lot. Can take a beating, you can get into range with your long radar and really disrupt the enemy and live to tell the tale.

[SettBU]

Před 12 minutami HaachamaShipping řekl/a:

...

Kriegsmarine it is then...

Thanks

[Zigiran]

42 minutes ago, SettBU said:

The Petropavlovsk looks like a solution to all durability problems and the railguns would probably help with my aim, but it shares the mediocre effective range problem due to high dispersion (...is what the internet said anyway). Also BB level turret turning.

About the Petro turret turning: keep in mind all 3 turrets can turn 360.

 

But as you said yourself: don't focus on T10.

Play more lines to T5 / T6.

Get to know the different classes so you know better how to counter them

Learn the differences between the factions, a RU gunboat DD plays totally different then a IJN torpedo DD.

[SettBU]

Před 8 minutami Zigiran řekl/a:

About the Petro turret turning: keep in mind all 3 turrets can turn 360.

 

But as you said yourself: don't focus on T10.

Play more lines to T5 / T6.

Get to know the different classes so you know better how to counter them

Learn the differences between the factions, a RU gunboat DD plays totally different then a IJN torpedo DD.

Yeah, I heard that. Does that mean it can actually turn in full circle(s) or like the IJN BBs' 359°? I tend to navigate in circles a lot and on bigger ships the turrets not only lag behind, but often they have to turn the other way, renering themselves useless for over a minute. Turning back doesn't help, because obviously by that time they are already out of position anyway.

[Zigiran]

They can do full circles

[SettBU]

So. After eating 6 nose citadels in the span of maybe 3 minutes of battle time, is there any point in playing cruisers or destroyers at all? Is Petropavlovsk the saving grace or will only a battleship do? Which line of BBs is the most agile?

[ColonelPete]

Just now, SettBU said:

So. After eating 6 nose citadels in the span of maybe 3 minutes of battle time, is there any point in playing cruisers or destroyers at all? Is Petropavlovsk the saving grace or will only a battleship do? Which line of BBs is the most agile?

What cruiser can take 6 nose citadels?

And no, DD do not take any...

[SettBU]

Před 1 minutou ColonelPete řekl/a:

What cruiser can take 6 nose citadels?

And no, DD do not take any...

Well, not the Königsberg. That was across 3 different "battles"

[Deckeru_Maiku]

On 11/26/2020 at 10:39 AM, SettBU said:

As a side question: is there something that can survive BB AP salvo, at least when properly angled, that isn't another BB?

 

At T5: Krispy Kreme...

[ColonelPete]

17 minutes ago, SettBU said:

Well, not the Königsberg. That was across 3 different "battles"

That is not 3 minutes...

 

With Koenigsberg you have to use your range to your advantage. Avoid staying spotted for too long.

[cherry2blost]

@SettBU I think you need to keep practising at the lower tiers before thinking about moving up the line. If you are getting blatted in Cruisers at low tiers then it's a 'you' problem and not a game mechanic problem.

 

Map awareness BEFORE you fire those guns, will I be able to get back round to protect my broadside, am I angled, am I straight nose in? 10 to 20 degree angles negates most damage. Are you firing while turning? Are you spotted? if so don't turn just hit the brakes.... there is so much that experience and only experience can teach you. But again if you are getting blatted in your broadside then you were unaware or ignorant of the threat to your broadside... again that is a simple L2P issue and I hope it will get better for you or it's going to be a short and depressing career in WoWs.

 

Hope it helps

Cherry

[Perekotypole]

Am 26.11.2020 um 10:39, SettBU sagte:

is there something that can survive BB AP salvo, at least when properly angled, that isn't another BB?

you are probably still at tier 5-6, where all cruisers are squishy. On upper tiers there are some cruisers that can tank nose in. Other cruisers have good maneuverability and can evade BB salvos. And there are smoke cruisers as well. But honestly, if you want play stationary and tank nose in, play BBs, especially the ones with frontal turret setup.