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FragiIe

Low rank CV

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Hey. I'm used to getting 3-5kills in BBs from the backline, doing nice dmg.

 

Unlocked CV, but got embarrassing amounts of dmg even with near 100 hits total. That was in a game that timed out, so my dmg should be very high, not just a single BB's healthpool. Most rocket drops just ricocheted

 

Are early CV's supposed to be intentionally bad? 

WorldOfWarships64 2020-11-25 12-46-42-04.png

WorldOfWarships64 2020-11-25 12-46-43-39.png

 

Edit: The game after this I did 103k dmg in 09:21 game time, compared to 59k dmg in 20... 

In the CV game, I even rushed the centre to get higher dmg since it's always so bad.

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27 minutes ago, FragiIe said:

Are early CV's supposed to be intentionally bad?

They are not bad.

You chose the CV that is a bit more demanding. You cannot rain german rockets on any ship from any direction and expect good damage. These are AP rockets that need to be aimed properly.

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36 minutes ago, FragiIe said:

Are early CV's supposed to be intentionally bad?

They are, for the most part, pretty fearsome (T4 CVs have the ability to make almost anything they meet, with the exception of some of the T5s, regret hitting 'battle' - Hosho, for example, is one of the most notorious seal-clubbers in the game); you do need to develop an entirely new skill-set though.

 

Whilst you probably really want input from a proper CV player (they're not really my thing, except in PvE), the following might be worth thinking about:

  • Learn to dodge flak clouds; with a bit of skill, you can render the flak element of AA almost irrelevant. This gets more important as you go up the tiers too.
  • Understand that much of your influence is not about damage - the reason that (especially) DD players like me get so upset with CVs is that they can spot you easily anywhere. Make sure you spot for your team (and do so in areas where your team will shoot at what you spot), and don't focus wholly on doing damage.
  • Don't get too hung up on quantity of damage; quality of damage is often more important - kill the enemy DDs first and there's a good chance you'll win (and you'll get just as good rewards - 50% off a DD's hp gives the you same reward as 50% off a BB, say).
  • Understand the nuances of the various plane types and how they vary with nationality.
  • Torp planes are pretty universal tools against fatties; bear in mind though that the KM silver ones don't hit as hard, but do go faster than others - these are arguably your most viable anti-DD weapon.
  • Rocket planes are mostly fearsome anti-DD weapons (and other squishy targets, plus AA gun strippers/fire starters against fatties), with the main exception of the KM ones (as @ColonelPete alludes to) - the latter use AP rockets, so your primary target is usually cruisers; you're aiming to get citadels where possible, so need to aim as you would an AP shell with the same intent i.e. as close to perpendicular to the target's long axis as possible (and hit near the waterline, generally in the middle-ish - have a look at the armour viewer to see where citadels actually are, if you don't know already). Ops are a good place to practice using the KM rocket planes, as you get plenty of cruiser targets and a lot of them go in straight lines, so allowing easy aiming practice.
  • Bombers vary between carpet bombers (the RN) and dive-bombers (everyone else). The RN planes drop lots of HE bombs over quite a large area; US bombers use HE in a dive-bombing attack pattern; the IJN and KM both use AP dive-bombers. Anything HE is about starting fires and stripping off AA guns and/or damaging squishy targets, whereas AP bombs are more about precise hits on armoured targets (the KM, especially, can be very effective citadel farmers against BBs).
  • Generally, keep your hull (the actual carrier) out of harm's way, but - ideally - close enough to the action to cycle through your attacks faster (minimum transit time); KM CVs actually have surprisingly good secondaries, but only an idiot actively tries to make use of them (think 'weapon of last resort') outside of some PvE hilarity (playing GZ, say, in a manly way is a hoot against bots, but is almost always entirely stupid against real people).

That's all very 'bang the rocks together, guys!' simple level, and excludes a lot of the (especially premium ship) eccentrics e.g. the T6 KM premium has laughably slow torps (forget hitting much that's more nimble than an island), HE dive-bombers that hit like dump-trucks, and T8 rocket planes, and so on. Also, a lot of the better CV players have all manner of nasty tricks they can apply beyond the former basics e.g. HE bombers can ruin a DD's day, if you can hit him, but it requires skill to do so.

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Grinded until the Rank 6 CV after practicing citadel bomb drops more. Still can't near my 110k dmg in BBs, where the BBs only had 40k HP, even against 12+citadel hits with pierce bombs.

 

I'm not even sure what the damage is like, because I genuinely lost every single torp dive bomber in a full squadron against 2 lone BBs before I could even drop my bombs, and losing 6/9 against a single BB with bomb drop. I guess that grind was a waste of time, back to BBs.

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20 minutes ago, FragiIe said:

Grinded until the Rank 6 CV after practicing citadel bomb drops more. Still can't near my 110k dmg in BBs, where the BBs only had 40k HP, even against 12+citadel hits with pierce bombs.

 

I'm not even sure what the damage is like, because I genuinely lost every single torp dive bomber in a full squadron against 2 lone BBs before I could even drop my bombs, and losing 6/9 against a single BB with bomb drop. I guess that grind was a waste of time, back to BBs.

Well the average damage of the top 5% of Rheins is 52k and the #1 player by average damage with at least 40 games is 70k.

 

110k damage on average is what T10 CVs should really expect.

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That's really low, especially considering Tier 1-4 are bots only due to no playerbase, so no angling/evading/AA groups. I just did 48k in a T2 light cruiser. I was averaging near enough 70k when grinding though the RN BB line at the same tier(s).

 

API player stats is also showing BBs to be basically the only class worth playing too. Highest dmg (Of course), but also highest winrates and kills per game, with the exception of the german CV also being okay, which I why I went for it. But mid tier CV is just hoping someone is dumb enough to not be near another teammate, because if they are, you're losing the whole plane squad and not getting any hits on something that's already moving, outside of minor torp and rocket dmg, where rockets both overpen and rico/shatter in the same volley, basically never doing damage.

 

I assume the API data is just due to CVs being good before the reword, and retaining high winrate/dmg from that period.

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1 hour ago, FragiIe said:

API player stats is also showing BBs to be basically the only class worth playing too.

BBs? Also known to DD drivers (such as me) as 'prey'.

 

If you think that only kills and damage really matter, I strongly suggest you read up on the bit of the wiki concerned with the economy and rewards: https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Economy#Earning_Credits_and_Experience

 

1 hour ago, FragiIe said:

I assume the API data is just due to CVs being good before the reword, and retaining high winrate/dmg from that period.

Nope - a competently played CV is the most influential thing in the game; technically-speaking, an incompetent one is also very influential, just in entirely the wrong direction.

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6 hours ago, FragiIe said:

That's really low, especially considering Tier 1-4 are bots only due to no playerbase, so no angling/evading/AA groups. I just did 48k in a T2 light cruiser. I was averaging near enough 70k when grinding though the RN BB line at the same tier(s).

 

API player stats is also showing BBs to be basically the only class worth playing too. Highest dmg (Of course), but also highest winrates and kills per game, with the exception of the german CV also being okay, which I why I went for it. But mid tier CV is just hoping someone is dumb enough to not be near another teammate, because if they are, you're losing the whole plane squad and not getting any hits on something that's already moving, outside of minor torp and rocket dmg, where rockets both overpen and rico/shatter in the same volley, basically never doing damage.

 

I assume the API data is just due to CVs being good before the reword, and retaining high winrate/dmg from that period.

Damage is not everything. When an enemy slips away with 100 HP and is out of reach, a BB cannot do much about it. A CV can strike anywhere on the map.

A good CV player decides matches, even when he does slightly less damage than a BB. A very good CV player does even more damage than BB.

 

When you want current information about the game, you should not look at old API data, but at the current one, the last two months for example.

image.thumb.png.e487171169683718d2d8a0ed3ed908c3.png

http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/ranking/20201121/eu_2month/average_ship_u.html

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4 hours ago, ColonelPete said:

Damage is not everything. When an enemy slips away with 100 HP and is out of reach, a BB cannot do much about it. A CV can strike anywhere on the map.

A good CV player decides matches, even when he does slightly less damage than a BB. A very good CV player does even more damage than BB.

 

When you want current information about the game, you should not look at old API data, but at the current one, the last two months for example.

image.thumb.png.e487171169683718d2d8a0ed3ed908c3.png

http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/ranking/20201121/eu_2month/average_ship_u.html

Thanks, that's pretty useful

 

9 hours ago, Verblonde said:

BBs? Also known to DD drivers (such as me) as 'prey'.

 

If you think that only kills and damage really matter, I strongly suggest you read up on the bit of the wiki concerned with the economy and rewards: https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Economy#Earning_Credits_and_Experience

 

Nope - a competently played CV is the most influential thing in the game; technically-speaking, an incompetent one is also very influential, just in entirely the wrong direction.

Just tried it out this morning again. Lost the whole torp squadron to a lone BB again, at least I got a single torp off. Flak bubbles are easy to dodge, but you can't dodge AA priority sectors on near 0 CD and 6km+ AA range. Can't really be influential if you can't even drop ordinance. I don't know if it's commanders, uptiering or equpment etc, but this is some of the least rewarding gameplay i've experienced in any game so far. Like an FPS without ammo.

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1 minute ago, FragiIe said:

Just tried it out this morning again. Lost the whole torp squadron to a lone BB again. Can't really be influential if you can't even drop ordinance. I don't know if it's commanders, uptiering or equpment etc, but this is the least rewarding gameplay i've experienced in any game so far. Like an FPS without ammo.

What CV against what BB?

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Just now, ColonelPete said:

What CV against what BB?

Unsure, only the second game on that CV rank, so all the BBs are new to me. Should it really matter? Are there some BBs that CVs are intentionally not allowed to attack due to AA? That would make for some fun gameplay...

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17 minutes ago, FragiIe said:

Unsure, only the second game on that CV rank, so all the BBs are new to me. Should it really matter? Are there some BBs that CVs are intentionally not allowed to attack due to AA? That would make for some fun gameplay...

  • It matters
  • all ships have different strengths and weaknesses
  • CV can even strike AA cruisers, but that is usually not recommended
  • Cool 1

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On 11/26/2020 at 5:39 AM, FragiIe said:

Should it really matter?

Very much so; as with all ship types, you need to know what everything (ideally) you will face can/can't do. For example, in a BB, the threat posed to you (and by what means) by Asashio, Cossack, and Harekaze - say - varies dramatically across those three ships, and that's just T8 DDs with 5.4-5.5 km surface detection; the variation increases even more across nations and tier spread; you need to know that, so why shouldn't you need to know about variations in AA as well? One of WOWS' strengths is the variety that the game offers, but that does require some learning.

 

I suggest you think a bit about your aims in game:

  • Do you care about winning?
  • Do you care about rewards (xp and silver earned)?
  • Do you care about kills and raw damage (as opposed to relative damage)?

It rather sounds like your primary aim is damage farming BBs (that's the only class you've complained about); whilst you absolutely can strike BBs effectively, with a bit of skill/knowledge, if that's your primary focus, you are much more likely to lose (with the associated reduced rewards) - as a DD driver, I love it when I meet CVs that focus my side's BBs, as it means they have minimised their influence on the game, giving me free rein to wreak havoc (unmolested DDs can be incredibly influential).

 

BTW you need to be spotting in a CV, or you aren't doing it right. You also need to be striking small ships too, especially DDs; remove the enemy DDs first and your side has a much better chance of winning (which is what - fundamentally - the point of it all is).

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Am 26.11.2020 um 11:39, FragiIe sagte:

Unsure, only the second game on that CV rank, so all the BBs are new to me. Should it really matter? Are there some BBs that CVs are intentionally not allowed to attack due to AA? That would make for some fun gameplay...

There is a learning curve in this game, even for CVs. To me it sounds your underwhelming CV experience comes from a lack of knowledge of the game on one side and exaggerated expectations on the other side.

 

If you just care about damage output then stick with BBs and keep on hanging out at the backline so that you can benefit from your team mate's sacrifices. 

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