Clarification: Secondaries‘ accuracy?

[1MajorKoenig]

Hi,

 

I was always under the impression that secondary guns use a standard dispersion formula which is terrible and which makes them miss anything they aim for. Exceptions in my world were Graf Zeppelin, Massachusetts, Georgia (and I believe the German Silver CVs) which use a tighter pattern and are therefore quite noticeably useable.

 

Now I read on LWM’s Oklahoma review (NA) today the following:

 

“Oklahoma has the same improved secondary dispersion as found Massachusetts and Georgia.  What's not as well known is that this is the same secondary dispersion as found on all large calibre secondary gun batteries, such as the 152mm on Kongo and Warspite.  I don't say this to nay-say Oklahoma's secondary performance, but rather to illustrate that one element isn't so rare at this tier, as a lot of the casemate weapons of tier V battleships are larger calibre.”

 

Now is that true? Do I have Massa-Secondary Dispersion on Bayern & Konig and the likes which use 15cm secondary guns and I never noticed?

[CptBarney]

Reminds me of witicha and how her secondaries have a even better formula compared to miss georgia.

 

i reckon they do have better dispersion values although last time i checked their ranges where pretty low and taking hit in those tiers hurts a lot more since you dont have acees to silly heals like on some ships.

 

think there was a sheet for secondary dispersion values but i cant remember if it was done by that mouse person or not

 

Although i assume they would, best way would be to see how they do in co-op as then you dont have to worry about stats and teammates too much.

[HaachamaShipping]

43 minutes ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

Now is that true? Do I have Massa-Secondary Dispersion on Bayern & Konig and the likes which use 15cm secondary guns and I never noticed?

It certainly is the case for any IJN 14 cm secondary gun. So a Mutsu with its 10 heavy secs per side is pretty formidable in its 6 km max sec range.

[VeryHonarbrah]

have a look at https://proships.ru/stat/eu/ships/ you can compare the hit rate curves of the bbs. https://proships.ru/stat/ships/compare,Battleship,all,8,,/

[Captn_Crap]

British 152 mm (Iron Duke and Warspite) and japanese 140 mm (Mutsu, Nagato, Ashitaka, Amagi and Kii) have improved dispersion. Other high caliber secondaries like german 150 mm or japanese 150/155 mm have standard dispersion.

 

Here is a list of all ships that have improved dispersion of at least some part of their secondary armament:

 

T4: Arkansas Beta, Rhein

T5: Iron Duke, Oklahoma

T6: Warspite, Mutsu, Pensacola, Weser

T7: Nagato, Ashitaka

T8: Massachusetts, Amagi/Kii/Ignis/Ragnarok, Wichita, Parseval, GZ

T9: Georgia

T10: Ohio, Slava, Kremlin, Moskva, Stalingrad, Petropavlovsk, MvR

 

Pensacola has the most accurate secondaries below 4 km and GZ above 4 km.

[asalonen]

I made a graph for 0.9.5 that shows the secondary dispersions.  I should update this...

 

Of the new ships the German carriers as well as Oklahoma have the same secondary dispersion as Massachusetts (the green line).

 

Also Florida has very good dispersion on some of the 127 mm's (the same as Wichita).

 

@1MajorKoenig It's not that all 152 mm's have a better dispersion. The improved dispersion is a feature on some specific guns. For example Kongo does not have improved dispersion on the 152 mm's -- LWM has made a mistake there.

 

 

[1MajorKoenig]

8 hours ago, Captn_Crap said:

British 152 mm (Iron Duke and Warspite) and japanese 140 mm (Mutsu, Nagato, Ashitaka, Amagi and Kii) have improved dispersion. Other high caliber secondaries like german 150 mm or japanese 150/155 mm have standard dispersion.

 

Here is a list of all ships that have improved dispersion of at least some part of their secondary armament:

 

T4: Arkansas Beta, Rhein

T5: Iron Duke, Oklahoma

T6: Warspite, Mutsu, Pensacola, Weser

T7: Nagato, Ashitaka

T8: Massachusetts, Amagi/Kii/Ignis/Ragnarok, Wichita, Parseval, GZ

T9: Georgia

T10: Ohio, Slava, Kremlin, Moskva, Stalingrad, Petropavlovsk, MvR

 

Pensacola has the most accurate secondaries below 4 km and GZ above 4 km.

 

2 hours ago, asalonen said:

I made a graph for 0.9.5 that shows the secondary dispersions.  I should update this...

 

Of the new ships the German carriers as well as Oklahoma have the same secondary dispersion as Massachusetts (the green line).

 

Also Florida has very good dispersion on some of the 127 mm's (the same as Wichita).

 

@1MajorKoenig It's not that all 152 mm's have a better dispersion. The improved dispersion is a feature on some specific guns. For example Kongo does not have improved dispersion on the 152 mm's -- LWM has made a mistake there.

 

 

Thanks all for the replies!

 

Especially the graph is super helpful! I wasn’t aware that Graf Z is by far the best,

always thought she would use Massa-style dispersion...  and it explains why GZ’s secondary guns are useable (even without manual Secs).

 

Btw.: does that mean that Massa with manual Secs is roughly as accurate as GZ without?

 

[asalonen]

7 hours ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

Btw.: does that mean that Massa with manual Secs is roughly as accurate as GZ without?

I think the Graf Zeppelin is slightly more accurate even without, and the guns also hit harder. I think the idea is that Graf Zeppelin secondaries are super strong even without manual secondaries. Especially after the rework the CV player is mostly elsewhere, not controlling the hull and target lock.