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MassiveDYT

Nevksy or Petro?

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Title pretty much. I know what the differences of the ships are, light cruiser he spammer vs heavy shells, heavy armor and 360 turrets, im just more interested how they are actually performing in games.

 

Thank you!

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11 minutes ago, MassiveDYT said:

how they are actually performing

I don't know if it's relevant, but when driving my DDs, I worry more about Nevsky as its radar has a more useful run-time (Petro's is too short to be too much of a problem, beyond fixing your position for a few seconds - unless the team is very alert, I can usually escape)...

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1 minute ago, Verblonde said:

I don't know if it's relevant, but when driving my DDs, I worry more about Nevsky as its radar has a more useful run-time (Petro's is too short to be too much of a problem, beyond fixing your position for a few seconds - unless the team is very alert, I can usually escape)...

yeah Nevsky seems like a DD menace, I hear ya.

 

15 minutes ago, domen3 said:

Both are "meh"

Really? I need to stop watching Flamu lol

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You have Worcester. Nevsky is a very similar ship - despite like 3 km more concealment and radar range - but with completely different guns. Instead of floaty shoot-to-the-moon ballistics, you have laser guns with more range, but can't really use island cover.

 

Petro currently is boring, but strong. Ship is very hard to punsih, but needs broadsides to shine. Would be shocked if there's no changes incoming after the current clan battle season.

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45 minutes ago, MassiveDYT said:

Really? I need to stop watching Flamu lol 

 

They really arent that great. All that russian bias went to peoples head, some even claimed how OP Tallinn is :cap_fainting:

The dispersion of the CA line is really questionable. I dont like it at all. Tallinn also has rather bad armor. Riga and Petro atleast have armor.

Petro starts to be on the lower end of the damage even, it fell behind most CAs like Hindenburg, Henri, Venezia... It currently wins a bit more games, which i believe is mostly good players playing that ship, and they win more even if the ship wouldnt be that great.

Im not sure about Nevsky... played it once so far, the reload is ok-ish but you only have 8 guns.

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2 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

 

They really arent that great. All that russian bias went to peoples head, some even claimed how OP Tallinn is :cap_fainting:

The dispersion of the CA line is really questionable. I dont like it at all. Tallinn also has rather bad armor. Riga and Petro atleast have armor.

Petro starts to be on the lower end of the damage even, it fell behind most CAs like Hindenburg, Henri, Venezia... It currently wins a bit more games, which i believe is mostly good players playing that ship, and they win more even if the ship wouldnt be that great.

Im not sure about Nevsky... played it once so far, the reload is ok-ish but you only have 8 guns.

Is nevsky like a smokeless more armored smolensk? long range damage farmer?

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11 hours ago, thisismalacoda said:

You have Worcester. Nevsky is a very similar ship - despite like 3 km more concealment and radar range - but with completely different guns. Instead of floaty shoot-to-the-moon ballistics, you have laser guns with more range, but can't really use island cover.

 

Yea, apart from completely different playstyles resulting from tiny details such as:

 

- armor profile (nevsky is a lot tankier and better at open water plays, worc is better at island camping and lobbing over)

- handling

- stealth

- gun handling (one has high dpm arcing shells, the other lower dpm high shell speed railguns)

- shell performance (he and ap couldn’t be more different between the two)

- radar range (12 vs 9km)

- torps (worc doesn’t have any, nevsky’s are 8km)

 

other than these small things they’re practically identical ships! :cap_haloween:

 

These two ships are nothing alike in terms of how they play, and owning a Worcester will literally tell him nothing about what the Nevsky is like.

 

 

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Petropavlovsk is one of the tankiest heavy cruisers in the game and a cruiser of extremes. Insane armour for a cruiser that is partly BB level, insane penetration on the guns for a heavy cruiser, also almost BB level. Petro can punish hard, but is the least easily punished Russian cruiser at T10 (when normally Russian cruisers broadside just blow up. You still shouldn't broadside, but Petro is the one that can actually survive that maneuver. Also, it has the best concealment of the T10 RU cruisers short of Smolensk. Offensively, Petro has slightly worse accuracy, but almost the pen of Bismarck and improved pen angles, so like with Stalingrad, if a cruiser shows a bit of side, you can citadel it to death. On the flipside, Petropavlovsk's radar is pretty much garbage with no useful duration and Petropavlovsk when it cannot use AP... oh boy... it makes Stalingrad look good. That's the balance kind of. Petro HE is basically trash, with no meaningful firesetting, mediocre pen, no meaningful dpm, worse than average accuracy. Against DDs, yes, HE can hurt, but any other cruiser would be a bigger menace. Against bigger targets, I had matches in GK and Montana where some Petro tried to kill me, but just couldn't because it's HE can't even pen most of the ship and while it's hard to damage Petro with AP, you can win the HE trade as a BB. Similarly, as the ship has no torps, if you aren't easy to citadel you can rush down the Petro if it sits bow-in and doesn't realise it has to get out, the best the Petro might be able to do is ram. Lastly, the AP can't even overmatch Mino or DDs, so half the T10 cruisers with HE will just be an utter pain if they just go angle hard and use even just half their guns. Some DesMo might just crap on you with its rear gun turret. A Hindenburg certainly will. Imo, Petro's main point is that it is a great mobile platform that can move around in ways Moskva and Stalingrad can't and this way can get on the sides of ships to get the most out of it, not to sit in one point like most Petros, being absolutely predictable and easy to defend against.

 

Nevsky meanwhile is a somewhat well-rounded light cruiser. It is best known for its tankiness as a light cruiser (reinforced lower bow, good hp pool, decent belt) and the great AP pen (on the level of a heavy cruiser), but the Nevsky also handles like a heavy cruiser and has HE dpm like one, while the HE pen is your CL 30 mm of garbage. Compared to Petro, the Nevsky however has a much easier time dealing with actually capable cruiser players, DD players (given it has proper radar duration, proper cruiser accuracy, 1000 m/s shell velocity and some actual HE dpm worth mentioning) and its fire chance is respectable, so even if you don't deal a lot of HE damage to BBs, it will burn them over time. Nevsky has to be more careful, as it has pretty crap concealment, turns poorly (but goes 36 knots in a straight line with an insane engine power) and its armour is nowhere near as strong when broadside, it will get reliably wrecked if caught broadside. But it just is that much more flexible overall, imo. Also gets torps, which are actually useful. The AP on Nevsky is not insane overall, but still very good even at range vs most cruisers, so you got that to compensate for the bad HE dpm (for a CL).

 

Both ships are good, imo, neither is broken. I personally prefer Nevsky because I have Stalingrad, I do not like the absolute reliance of farming pepega broadsides and I also enjoy having the torps. Petro is strong in CB, especially because of coordinated attacks with crossfires, but in randoms... Nevsky just has more tools, imo.

18 minutes ago, MassiveDYT said:

Is nevsky like a smokeless more armored smolensk? long range damage farmer?

No, unless any long range HE spammer with more armour and no smoke counts, like Zao. Nevsky is overall more like a Hindenburg with guns that are worse in HE, trade AP dpm for AP pen and some armour for a radar. For farming stuff without a care, Hindenburg is hands down better. Nevsky adds the ability to radar. This also makes Nevsky a very powerful counter to Smolensk, because their smoke can be radared, their HE doesn't pen most of your ship, yours pens theirs, Nevsky AP can citadel the pathetic Smolensk citadel belt at any range and it isn't hard to hit a ship even at long range due to the great shell velocity.

 

If you can't decide, I can only say though, Moskva exists too and is also a good ship still that doesn't need to hide behind these two, imo. 

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They play very differently.

 

Nevsky is an HE spammer that's comfortable at very long ranges. The shells fly super fast, so you can deliver very respectable DPM to your maximum range. If you keep moving, the reds are unlikely to hit back hard. If it looks like the reds are gaining an upper hand, you switch your stern towards the enemy to control the distance, and just keep at it. 

 

Petropavlovsk is much more comfortable close to the enemy. It's super tanky and the 360-degree turrets guarantee that you can punish emerging targets with your AP -- whether they're to your left or to your right. It's a very easy ship to position well for aggressive play. For me, Petro is more interesting to play.

 

Nevsky is clearly good, but Petro still feels OP. I don't really believe in the Russian Bias meme, but Petro and Stalin are two ships that I feel have received too much special love at the designer's table...

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3 hours ago, HaachamaShipping said:

Petropavlovsk is one of the tankiest heavy cruisers in the game and a cruiser of extremes. Insane armour for a cruiser that is partly BB level, insane penetration on the guns for a heavy cruiser, also almost BB level. Petro can punish hard, but is the least easily punished Russian cruiser at T10 (when normally Russian cruisers broadside just blow up. You still shouldn't broadside, but Petro is the one that can actually survive that maneuver. Also, it has the best concealment of the T10 RU cruisers short of Smolensk. Offensively, Petro has slightly worse accuracy, but almost the pen of Bismarck and improved pen angles, so like with Stalingrad, if a cruiser shows a bit of side, you can citadel it to death. On the flipside, Petropavlovsk's radar is pretty much garbage with no useful duration and Petropavlovsk when it cannot use AP... oh boy... it makes Stalingrad look good. That's the balance kind of. Petro HE is basically trash, with no meaningful firesetting, mediocre pen, no meaningful dpm, worse than average accuracy. Against DDs, yes, HE can hurt, but any other cruiser would be a bigger menace. Against bigger targets, I had matches in GK and Montana where some Petro tried to kill me, but just couldn't because it's HE can't even pen most of the ship and while it's hard to damage Petro with AP, you can win the HE trade as a BB. Similarly, as the ship has no torps, if you aren't easy to citadel you can rush down the Petro if it sits bow-in and doesn't realise it has to get out, the best the Petro might be able to do is ram. Lastly, the AP can't even overmatch Mino or DDs, so half the T10 cruisers with HE will just be an utter pain if they just go angle hard and use even just half their guns. Some DesMo might just crap on you with its rear gun turret. A Hindenburg certainly will. Imo, Petro's main point is that it is a great mobile platform that can move around in ways Moskva and Stalingrad can't and this way can get on the sides of ships to get the most out of it, not to sit in one point like most Petros, being absolutely predictable and easy to defend against.

 

Nevsky meanwhile is a somewhat well-rounded light cruiser. It is best known for its tankiness as a light cruiser (reinforced lower bow, good hp pool, decent belt) and the great AP pen (on the level of a heavy cruiser), but the Nevsky also handles like a heavy cruiser and has HE dpm like one, while the HE pen is your CL 30 mm of garbage. Compared to Petro, the Nevsky however has a much easier time dealing with actually capable cruiser players, DD players (given it has proper radar duration, proper cruiser accuracy, 1000 m/s shell velocity and some actual HE dpm worth mentioning) and its fire chance is respectable, so even if you don't deal a lot of HE damage to BBs, it will burn them over time. Nevsky has to be more careful, as it has pretty crap concealment, turns poorly (but goes 36 knots in a straight line with an insane engine power) and its armour is nowhere near as strong when broadside, it will get reliably wrecked if caught broadside. But it just is that much more flexible overall, imo. Also gets torps, which are actually useful. The AP on Nevsky is not insane overall, but still very good even at range vs most cruisers, so you got that to compensate for the bad HE dpm (for a CL).

 

Both ships are good, imo, neither is broken. I personally prefer Nevsky because I have Stalingrad, I do not like the absolute reliance of farming pepega broadsides and I also enjoy having the torps. Petro is strong in CB, especially because of coordinated attacks with crossfires, but in randoms... Nevsky just has more tools, imo.

No, unless any long range HE spammer with more armour and no smoke counts, like Zao. Nevsky is overall more like a Hindenburg with guns that are worse in HE, trade AP dpm for AP pen and some armour for a radar. For farming stuff without a care, Hindenburg is hands down better. Nevsky adds the ability to radar. This also makes Nevsky a very powerful counter to Smolensk, because their smoke can be radared, their HE doesn't pen most of your ship, yours pens theirs, Nevsky AP can citadel the pathetic Smolensk citadel belt at any range and it isn't hard to hit a ship even at long range due to the great shell velocity.

 

If you can't decide, I can only say though, Moskva exists too and is also a good ship still that doesn't need to hide behind these two, imo. 

Thanks, great answer, and thanks everyone else too.

 

I feel like going for the Nevsky, ill probably get both

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5 hours ago, MassiveDYT said:

Really? I need to stop watching Flamu lol

Yeah, a few streamers made them seem like they're some unholy overpowered monstrosities, which then fueled the "russian bias" meme for people who blindly believed it. I haven't played nevsky much but, it's basically a donskoi that fires much faster, while petro has amazing defensive capabilities but fairly poor offensive ones. Yes if you go broadside to it at 12km you'll get wrecked. But as long as you angle (and you're in a ship it can't overmatch automatically), it can't do much. In CBs if you have two petros meet, it's like a staring contest.

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3 minutes ago, domen3 said:

Yes if you go broadside to it at 12km you'll get wrecked

Should be noted that this works both  ways. Petropavlovsk showing broadside, especially to BB guns, at that range or closer, is going to be severely hurting or sent back to port.

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18 minutes ago, lafeel said:

Should be noted that this works both  ways. Petropavlovsk showing broadside, especially to BB guns, at that range or closer, is going to be severely hurting or sent back to port.

Not as often as one would like. Because the Petro sit so god damn low in the water and has impressive armour damage can be incredibly inconsistent even against full broadside.

 

That being said I still think that the tankiness is the biggest thing it has going for it, which overall makes for a pretty boring experience since you lack in damage output especially at range.

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2 hours ago, domen3 said:

But as long as you angle (and you're in a ship it can't overmatch automatically), it can't do much.

Short of a fail-dived DD, I don't think much can be overmatched effectively. DD superstructures, but that isn't really "effective". Otherwise, 16 mm is enough to not get overmatched. 

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8 hours ago, domen3 said:

Both are "meh"

That must be why all cb battles is 4 petros vs 4 petros

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16 minutes ago, thiextar said:

That must be why all cb battles is 4 petros vs 4 petros

And why do you think just about any clan with at least one FC capable of making a rational thought uses them less and less?

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17 minutes ago, thiextar said:

That must be why all cb battles is 4 petros vs 4 petros

High survivability and easy to play, which is nice to have against CV’s.

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6 minutes ago, thiextar said:

That must be why all cb battles is 4 petros vs 4 petros

It's undoubtedly strong, but CB meta has stopped being very representative of cruiser meta ever since the mode became open to CVs. If you wouldn't have a class that basically can just bomb/torp/rocket a semi-static defender into submission without repercussion, renders traditional DD play and spotting kind of obsolete, you would see far more other cruisers with specialties other than brute force push to set up crossfires to achieve a win (and added bonus of having less freeboard to rocket with half the citadel being way too armoured for rockets).

 

Just as a reminder, T6 CB was a ton of Graf Spee. Doesn't mean the Graf Spee necessarily goes beyond "meh" in randoms. It certainly doesn't in my opinion since the 25 mm midsection became standard for T6-7 CAs. It's decent at best in randoms these days. And Petro random performance looks less great with every passing week.

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3 hours ago, lafeel said:

Should be noted that this works both  ways. Petropavlovsk showing broadside, especially to BB guns, at that range or closer, is going to be severely hurting or sent back to port.

True to a degree but not always, I sailed 6 km from a Montana in this CB season, he fired and got like 8k damage out of that, in return I dished out 12 citas we were both full broadside to each other...

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