The real problem with the ARP Yamato (Unpopular opinion but it’s not the ship)

[Rawthorm]

(I apologise for the word vomit in advance)

 

It saddens me to say it, but from watching the WoWs Forums/Reddit and seeing the ship in game over the last few days its becoming rapidly apparent that the biggest problem this game has isn’t Wargaming selling the ARP Yamato. It’s the players and their toxicity/elitism in how they react to it.

 

Before I go further I want to agree with you all that yes this thing is overpriced as hell (as all pixel ships are IMO) and yes Wargaming seems more and more intent on emulating Scrooge McDuck with each passing month. I’ll dig into the economics and “Being able to buy a T10” later but none of that justifies what I’ve seen over the last few days.

 

My question for you all is why should anyone be attacked and publically ridiculed for purchasing anything in a video game? If someone has decided that the joy a ship brings is worth X amount of money, then what is it to you? Why piss on someone else’s cornflakes?

 

My partner has been playing WoWs with me and my Clan for about 3 months now (more for the community of the Clan than for the game itself) and she’s handling Battleships well enough for a casual player. She has had no idea what ARP is but she’s seen the pictures from the previous ARP collaboration and has always been a little gutted that “The Pretty Ships” weren’t something she could work towards as a new player. We put a few £ aside in case they ever brought the collaboration back again and she set herself the task of working her way towards the Yamato, with a secondary goal of teaching herself the way of the Destroyer as she grinds for the Gearing (so she can use the Bumble Bee skin she got from a Transformers Container).

 

Fast forward to recent weeks. She’s not one to focus her efforts but despite spinning the many plates that is doing several ship lines at once she is well into the T9 Japanese BB line. Clan Battles have allowed her to “try before you buy” in regards to the Yamato and she’s absolutely loving it as a ship, so when the ARP Yamato dropped into the store it was basically all the things she’s wanted from WoWs in one neat shiny package. The insane cost didn’t go unnoticed but between the £ we’d put aside for an ARP return, the fact she has no interest the Black Friday ships and her insane luck winning Doubloons in Twitch Raffles it was doable so she went for it.

 

Taking her new pride and joy out into Random should have been a happy experience. Instead it was 5-10 matches of sustained abuse. Every single match started with her being called all kinds of names, not for her contribution to the match but for daring to save up some £ and Doubloons for a ship she liked the look of. It got to the point where she’d rather not take out her pride and joy than face the harassment for owning it (and she’s dropped any notion of owning any of the other ARP ships now either). The real icing on the cake is that every single hypocritical Cockwomble that gave her abuse has a profile chocked full of premium ships.

 

Which brings me to my overarching point. This player base is absolute cancer and I’ll be honest, I’ve seen better sportsmanship on a Call of Duty server. This game struggles with retaining new players and this is 100% why. My Clan tries to be a good home for newbo’s but the amount of new players that give WoWs a go for a couple of weeks and then quit because of the toxicity in Random Battles is beyond counting. Before we all cry about CV’s and how selling a glowing Yamato is killing the game, we might want to look more inwards for where the real problems are. You want less potatoes in your games, how about you take the time to mentor one instead of berating them in chat? Please by all means give me an example of where hurling abuse at someone in chat or poking fun of them on Reddit has made them a better player and improved your future game experience.

 

Ignoring all the elitist chest thumping for a moment tho, lets actually look at the cost and ramifications of Wargaming selling the ARP Yamato (A very specific ship that the lore of the collaboration gives them an excuse to sell).

 

When you did down into it the price of the ARP Yamato is broadly in line with the existing ship price structure. A T8 BB is about £35. A T9 is about £55. This is roughly a 60% increase as you go up a Tier, which is fairly close to the same percentage increase when you weigh the ARP Yamato against a T9. I think the bigger issue here is that ALL of the ships are too expensive and that this is just most apparent at the highest tiers. You know this tho when you get into any Wargaming product so anyone being bitter here is being bitter because they can’t afford it (Or have already spaffed all their money on a fleet of premium ships and are feeling somewhat entitled). I can’t afford my own ARP Yamato because I put the few £ I had spare for this game into ensuring my partner got hers (as it means way more to her than it does to me). Am I disappointed, sure. Am I going to abuse others because I can’t afford it, hell no. I’m happy for them and I want them to have a great time in their new ship.

 

As for the ramifications of selling a T10, let’s not kid ourselves. With all the boosts, containers and flags new players get they could do a focused grind to their first T10 in about 1-2 weeks. For everyone else, you’ve always been able to buy Free XP via conversion. I could buy the stock Yamato using Doubloons right now, or I could spend the same amount on the ARP one. Honestly someone please tell me the difference and why it matters to you?

 

If you’ve stuck with this post this far, then I apologise for the rant. The player base attitude has been bugging me for some time and if this post saves even a few players from future abuse then I’ll consider it words worth saying. Remember guys, as a community you get the player base you deserve.

[Dutchy_2019]

22 minutes ago, Rawthorm said:

(I apologise for the word vomit in advance)

 

It saddens me to say it, but from watching the WoWs Forums/Reddit and seeing the ship in game over the last few days its becoming rapidly apparent that the biggest problem this game has isn’t Wargaming selling the ARP Yamato. It’s the players and their toxicity/elitism in how they react to it.

 

Before I go further I want to agree with you all that yes this thing is overpriced as hell (as all pixel ships are IMO) and yes Wargaming seems more and more intent on emulating Scrooge McDuck with each passing month. I’ll dig into the economics and “Being able to buy a T10” later but none of that justifies what I’ve seen over the last few days.

 

My question for you all is why should anyone be attacked and publically ridiculed for purchasing anything in a video game? If someone has decided that the joy a ship brings is worth X amount of money, then what is it to you? Why piss on someone else’s cornflakes?

 

My partner has been playing WoWs with me and my Clan for about 3 months now (more for the community of the Clan than for the game itself) and she’s handling Battleships well enough for a casual player. She has had no idea what ARP is but she’s seen the pictures from the previous ARP collaboration and has always been a little gutted that “The Pretty Ships” weren’t something she could work towards as a new player. We put a few £ aside in case they ever brought the collaboration back again and she set herself the task of working her way towards the Yamato, with a secondary goal of teaching herself the way of the Destroyer as she grinds for the Gearing (so she can use the Bumble Bee skin she got from a Transformers Container).

 

Fast forward to recent weeks. She’s not one to focus her efforts but despite spinning the many plates that is doing several ship lines at once she is well into the T9 Japanese BB line. Clan Battles have allowed her to “try before you buy” in regards to the Yamato and she’s absolutely loving it as a ship, so when the ARP Yamato dropped into the store it was basically all the things she’s wanted from WoWs in one neat shiny package. The insane cost didn’t go unnoticed but between the £ we’d put aside for an ARP return, the fact she has no interest the Black Friday ships and her insane luck winning Doubloons in Twitch Raffles it was doable so she went for it.

 

Taking her new pride and joy out into Random should have been a happy experience. Instead it was 5-10 matches of sustained abuse. Every single match started with her being called all kinds of names, not for her contribution to the match but for daring to save up some £ and Doubloons for a ship she liked the look of. It got to the point where she’d rather not take out her pride and joy than face the harassment for owning it (and she’s dropped any notion of owning any of the other ARP ships now either). The real icing on the cake is that every single hypocritical Cockwomble that gave her abuse has a profile chocked full of premium ships.

 

Which brings me to my overarching point. This player base is absolute cancer and I’ll be honest, I’ve seen better sportsmanship on a Call of Duty server. This game struggles with retaining new players and this is 100% why. My Clan tries to be a good home for newbo’s but the amount of new players that give WoWs a go for a couple of weeks and then quit because of the toxicity in Random Battles is beyond counting. Before we all cry about CV’s and how selling a glowing Yamato is killing the game, we might want to look more inwards for where the real problems are. You want less potatoes in your games, how about you take the time to mentor one instead of berating them in chat? Please by all means give me an example of where hurling abuse at someone in chat or poking fun of them on Reddit has made them a better player and improved your future game experience.

 

Ignoring all the elitist chest thumping for a moment tho, lets actually look at the cost and ramifications of Wargaming selling the ARP Yamato (A very specific ship that the lore of the collaboration gives them an excuse to sell).

 

When you did down into it the price of the ARP Yamato is broadly in line with the existing ship price structure. A T8 BB is about £35. A T9 is about £55. This is roughly a 60% increase as you go up a Tier, which is fairly close to the same percentage increase when you weigh the ARP Yamato against a T9. I think the bigger issue here is that ALL of the ships are too expensive and that this is just most apparent at the highest tiers. You know this tho when you get into any Wargaming product so anyone being bitter here is being bitter because they can’t afford it (Or have already spaffed all their money on a fleet of premium ships and are feeling somewhat entitled). I can’t afford my own ARP Yamato because I put the few £ I had spare for this game into ensuring my partner got hers (as it means way more to her than it does to me). Am I disappointed, sure. Am I going to abuse others because I can’t afford it, hell no. I’m happy for them and I want them to have a great time in their new ship.

 

As for the ramifications of selling a T10, let’s not kid ourselves. With all the boosts, containers and flags new players get they could do a focused grind to their first T10 in about 1-2 weeks. For everyone else, you’ve always been able to buy Free XP via conversion. I could buy the stock Yamato using Doubloons right now, or I could spend the same amount on the ARP one. Honestly someone please tell me the difference and why it matters to you?

 

If you’ve stuck with this post this far, then I apologise for the rant. The player base attitude has been bugging me for some time and if this post saves even a few players from future abuse then I’ll consider it words worth saying. Remember guys, as a community you get the player base you deserve.

 

I fully agree with most of it, and I am very sad to hear that what should have been fun became really frustrating.

 

I cannot compare toxicity within this game with that of other games. But yeah, those reactions to her are inexcusable. 

 

What I find the most galling (or frustrating) is that regularly the most toxic people are people who themselves are not that good at the game, yet think they are - and are completely unwilling to listen to others in game who point out what could be improved upon. I fully expect the toxicity to this ship to change as soon as something new comes out; maybe Black Friday, otherwise with the arrival of Hizen.

 

[Panocek]

TL;DR

you're on a ship at sea, salt is only natural.

[Miragetank90]

Just own it. Like this:

 

I bought ARP Yamato *Nervous blushing* and I run a secondary build with rudder shift, no FP and no conceal 

 

I seriously don't give a 

People can think or say what they want. Just do you. 

 

 

Personally, I'd been wanting to get my hands on the new ARP stuff since it was announced. I find it too expensive but I decided to buy it anyway. Though I most likely won't be buying anything WoWs-related for a while.

 

This game is becoming as expensive as some of my....... other hobbies. 

 

 

[DanSilverwing]

Chat abuse in Randoms is the reason why people stop playing Randoms.

 

Using chat for the purpose of abuse or harassment is an absolute EULA violation, your partner can escalate to WG customer service here : https://eu.wargaming.net/support/en/products/wows/help/29948/29949/

 

Offenders can be sanctioned from chat bans to account suspensions.

 

There is no reason to become conditioned to accept toxic behaviour as 'normal'.

[Origin47]

Come to co-op. You will be happier there.

[Verblonde]

34 minutes ago, Rawthorm said:

Why piss on someone else’s cornflakes?

Whilst I wouldn't condone anything more unpleasant than some gentle ribbing/friendly advice, I can understand *some* of the ill humour that the ARP Yamato has generated (thinking mainly about Randoms; do whatever you want in Coop):

• WOWS is a team game and every player has, to a greater or lesser extent, a responsibility to their team-mates to be as effective as they can be.
• There is nothing wrong with an existing T10 player buying an ARP Yamato; they're already familiar with T10 play and what is required, so are likely to be similarly effective in the new ship as they would be in a regular one. They'll just have a better economic result at the end of the game (halved repair costs).
• Where the problem arises is with people who have jumped straight to ARP Yamato from a much lower tier; such people are harming others, by making their team weaker by up to one T10 BB, and that - IMO - is exceptionally poor form.

I have no idea how many people fall into each category (besides which, there are shades of grey between the two: a T8 player who buys an ARP Yamato is probably much less of a problem than someone who hasn't reached the +2 MM bracket yet), but the possibility of the latter category is inevitably going to annoy people - antisocial selfishness (which is what it basically is) is rather likely to trigger less temperate behaviour in what is supposed to be a cooperative team environment.

[Ulvesnutepostei]

Tbh the dispersion on this ship is just wild, if you hit it ... it will sink 

[Karasu_Hidesuke]

Even on the forums some have said they like the ship, want it and bought it. I don't see a problem with that as long as they are sure they can afford to invest that much into a pixel ship.

 

Most online games seem to have a certain toxic element, perhaps more so now than say, 20 years ago (10-15 actually). I was playing on a couple of Wolfenstein ET servers fairly regularly back then, and can't remember much if any toxicity. Of course, the population on those servers was smaller and the community tighter than on these mega servers. Still, what I found startling is a story of one of the regular players who was almost always online playing the game. Until he wasn't. Only then did I learn that he'd had some kind of a terminal disease, but had liked the game and the server so much he had wanted to stay online playing the game till the very end.

 

It takes all kinds, and while some are toxic, others are sterling.

[Dutchy_2019]

1 hour ago, Verblonde said:

Whilst I wouldn't condone anything more unpleasant than some gentle ribbing/friendly advice, I can understand *some* of the ill humour that the ARP Yamato has generated (thinking mainly about Randoms; do whatever you want in Coop):

• WOWS is a team game and every player has, to a greater or lesser extent, a responsibility to their team-mates to be as effective as they can be.
• There is nothing wrong with an existing T10 player buying an ARP Yamato; they're already familiar with T10 play and what is required, so are likely to be similarly effective in the new ship as they would be in a regular one. They'll just have a better economic result at the end of the game (halved repair costs).
• Where the problem arises is with people who have jumped straight to ARP Yamato from a much lower tier; such people are harming others, by making their team weaker by up to one T10 BB, and that - IMO - is exceptionally poor form.

I have no idea how many people fall into each category (besides which, there are shades of grey between the two: a T8 player who buys an ARP Yamato is probably much less of a problem than someone who hasn't reached the +2 MM bracket yet), but the possibility of the latter category is inevitably going to annoy people - antisocial selfishness (which is what it basically is) is rather likely to trigger less temperate behaviour in what is supposed to be a cooperative team environment.

 

As pointed out in another thread: the numbers indicate that the average ARP Yamato player contributes more to his or her team than the average Yamato player.

 

I see what people are saying, but in many ways it is less and less born out by the numbers.

[Bindolaf_Werebane]

1. The problem is that players enable WG and thus nothing changes. Or, strike that. Things change for the worse.

 

2. I did not, nor will give anyone crap for buying the ARP Yamato.

 

3. I roasted one yesterday with my Smolensk (I'm talking pens, 3 fires, DC, directly another 3 fires) and citadelled one with my Montana. Did I pick them specifically as targets? I mean yea, a little. 

[Verblonde]

7 minutes ago, Dutchy_2019 said:

 

As pointed out in another thread: the numbers indicate that the average ARP Yamato player contributes more to his or her team than the average Yamato player.

 

I see what people are saying, but in many ways it is less and less born out by the numbers.

People tend to assume the worst (a pessimist is never disappointed, after all) i.e. every ten game wazzock will rush out and buy an ARP Yamato; there is after all a well-documented tendency for new players to assume that they'll do better in a higher tier ship (it's more powerful, innit?).

 

Presumably, what's happening in reality is that the majority of people buying the new ship are already highly committed to the game (it is a hundred quid-ish after all), so many of them have played enough to have a basic understanding of what playstyle/tactics the ship calls for.

 

FWIW I haven't played a huge number of games since release, but my subjective impression is that the competent outweigh the hopeless at least two-to-one, based on the ARP Yamatos I've seen so far.

 

Whilst I still think the thing should be gated behind having at least one silver T10, time will tell how wise (or otherwise) this thing turns out to be.

[DFens_666]

2 hours ago, Rawthorm said:

My question for you all is why should anyone be attacked and publically ridiculed for purchasing anything in a video game? If someone has decided that the joy a ship brings is worth X amount of money, then what is it to you? Why piss on someone else’s cornflakes?

 

Because you are pissing on their fun by playing something which you have no clue how to play properly. Would you go play football with some others and start throwing the ball with your hands into the goal? No, ofc not, but if you did, people would also be mad at you at not play with you any longer.

In Wows, they dont have a choice to not play with you. If you enter a game with (bought) hightier ships, people get mad because they expect you do to badly with it. If you do badly, they lose aswell.

Its not only about you having fun - you are also ruining the fun for others.

 

Let that sink in...

[Karasu_Hidesuke]

15 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

 

Because you are pissing on their fun by playing something which you have no clue how to play properly. Would you go play football with some others and start throwing the ball with your hands into the goal? No, ofc not, but if you did, people would also be mad at you at not play with you any longer.

In Wows, they dont have a choice to not play with you. If you enter a game with (bought) hightier ships, people get mad because they expect you do to badly with it. If you do badly, they lose aswell.

Its not only about you having fun - you are also ruining the fun for others.

 

Let that sink in...

 

We will see in practice how much ARP Yamato will change tier X gameplay.

[DFens_666]

3 minutes ago, Karasu_Hidesuke said:

 

We will see in practice how much ARP Yamato will change tier X gameplay.

 

Doesnt matter imo.

We already went downhill with TX premiums/freemiums.

How is a 700 battle ARP Yamato different from a 700 battle Thunderer? It isnt...

[___V_E_N_O_M___]

28 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

 

Because you are pissing on their fun by playing something which you have no clue how to play properly. Would you go play football with some others and start throwing the ball with your hands into the goal? No, ofc not, but if you did, people would also be mad at you at not play with you any longer.

In Wows, they dont have a choice to not play with you. If you enter a game with (bought) hightier ships, people get mad because they expect you do to badly with it. If you do badly, they lose aswell.

Its not only about you having fun - you are also ruining the fun for others.

 

Let that sink in...

Such lack of performance in a ship does not justify tirades of online abuse....

 

@Rawthorm if your girlfriend gets abuse in game, tell her to tell them to f   offf and get her to block their messages.

 

She does not need to hear abuse like that.

 

Screw everyone in the community except yourselves have fun and let them scream at their PCs. I'm sure none of them have a beautiful partner like you do, so in the end you can have the last laugh.

 

People like @DFens_666 are a prime example of the toxic community, you must obliterate in every game you encounter abuse. FIGHT FIRE WITH FIRE

 

Let that sink in my little defens devil!!!!!!!!

[raz207]

This is a game of skill that becomes a game of pay to win. I played 3000 battles before i reached Yama, If it was a single shooter where you can die and it will not effect the team thats your problem. But if you buy your self into the major league and you yolo with the ARP Yamato into a cap and get killed and leave your team mates short of one T10 bb well and they lose...thats not fair from your side not the team side. 

 

 

[ForlornSailor]

9 minutes ago, ___V_E_N_O_M___ said:

Let that sink in my little defens devil!!!!!!!!

 

Not long ago, you tried to get into his clan, citing he is one of your "friends". What happened to that?

[Thorsvald]

I don't like to see WG crossing that line but...

You've no right to harass someone for buying something you can't or just don't want to.

It's in fact a childish attitude since your ethics aren't better for not whaling at all.

 

Since the curiosity about ARP colab. has made me to take a look to the anime and i've enjoyed it i would like to have the entire ARP army but it's too expensive for me... But if someone can afford it why should i judge him?

 

 

 

[DFens_666]

8 minutes ago, ___V_E_N_O_M___ said:

Such lack of performance in a ship does not justify tirades of online abuse....

 

@Rawthorm if your girlfriend gets abuse in game, tell her to tell them to f   offf and get her to block their messages.

 

She does not need to hear abuse like that.

 

Screw everyone in the community except yourselves have fun and let them scream at their PCs. I'm sure none of them have a beautiful partner like you do, so in the end you can have the last laugh.

 

People like @DFens_666 are a prime example of the toxic community, you must obliterate in every game you encounter abuse. FIGHT FIRE WITH FIRE

 

Let that sink in my little defens devil!!!!!!!!

 

Maybe people should just grow a thicker skin and not get bothered by what some person, they have never seen and most likely will never see in their life, has to say about what you are doing.

Everyone gets abused in online games - big deal. And 99% dont care for it. 1% are crying that those people basicly should get canceled from life because for what they said.

As usual these days, people are putting words higher than actions:

- One side cries for toxic people, because they "ruin" their enjoyment

- The other side is angry at people, who are ACTIVELY ruining their fun by being egomaniacs (MY FUN, [edited]THE REST).

 

Which one is worse?

[SeaWolf7]

2 minutes ago, ___V_E_N_O_M___ said:

Such lack of performance in a ship does not justify tirades of online abuse....

 

@Rawthorm if you girlfriend get abuse in game tell her to tell them f   offf and get to block their messages.

 

She does not need to hear abuse like that.

 

Screw everyone in the community except yourselves have fun and let them scream at their PCs. I'm sure none of them have a beautiful partner like you do so in the end you can have the last laugh.

 

People like @DFens_666 are a prime example of the toxic community, you must obliterate in every game you encounter abuse.

 

Let that sink in!!!!!!!!

Oh the irony. This is exactly why People shouldn't buy top tier ships, to avoid the abuse. no one like being verbally abused and in a perfect world they shouldn't. But ask your self why she getting verbal abuse?

Because WG have allowed people to buy premium tier X ships with Very little to 0 experience. Thats not her fault. Its WG's.

[___V_E_N_O_M___]

Le 15/11/2020 à 18:02, ForlornSailor a dit :

 

Not long ago, you tried to get into his clan, citing he is one of your "friends". What happened to that?

Times change the salt stays the same

 

Le 15/11/2020 à 18:05, SeaWolf7 a dit :

Oh the irony. This is exactly why People shouldn't buy top tier ships, to avoid the abuse. no one like being verbally abused and in a perfect world they shouldn't. But ask your self why she getting verbal abuse?

Because WG have allowed people to buy premium tier X ships with Very little to 0 experience. Thats not her fault. Its WG's.

When I joined WOWS, the first premium I bought was Tier 8 BB Alabama and when I announced my purchase to the world. Everyone became enraged by the heresy I had committed. Did I care no, I bought Roma and kept having fun at everyone's expense.

[Dutchy_2019]

25 minutes ago, SeaWolf7 said:

Oh the irony. This is exactly why People shouldn't buy top tier ships, to avoid the abuse. no one like being verbally abused and in a perfect world they shouldn't. But ask your self why she getting verbal abuse?

Because WG have allowed people to buy premium tier X ships with Very little to 0 experience. Thats not her fault. Its WG's.

 

That is only part of the issue. A much bigger element:

 

- People take this game way too seriously.

- People (hiding behind online identities) decide to hurl abuse first, and only look and think later.

- A whole lot of people hurling abuse at others for "being a noob" or being "pay to win" are - if they have not hidden their stats in the first place - people with LOUSY overall stats, often playing a very limited number of lines, and (irony of ironies) often have loads of premium ships among their most played. A selection of ships that either means they have been EXTREMELY lucky, or bought their way to the top.

- Regularly the abuse hurlers are the ones to f*** up early, or hide behind island or at the A, J, 1 or 10 line all game, only to pop out on the end, and claim that (a) they saved the day (when the game turns into a win), or (b) the team is lousy. Unfortunately the very fact that the survive for 15 minutes by doing nothing means that they are almost guaranteed quite a bit of Base XP. You know the type: the top tier BB player that 15 minutes in still has 90% of his health left. Or the DD-player that has not spotted a single enemy ship.

[Rawthorm]

1 hour ago, Dutchy_2019 said:

 

As pointed out in another thread: the numbers indicate that the average ARP Yamato player contributes more to his or her team than the average Yamato player.

 

I see what people are saying, but in many ways it is less and less born out by the numbers.

Thanks for pointing out that little nugget. It's already proving most useful against the usual fear mongering crowd.

[__Helmut_Kohl__]

3 hours ago, Rawthorm said:

Taking her new pride and joy out into Random should have been a happy experience. Instead it was 5-10 matches of sustained abuse. Every single match started with her being called all kinds of names, not for her contribution to the match but for daring to save up some £ and Doubloons for a ship she liked the look of.

 

I honestly wonder if it would be the same, if all players had enough spare money to buy these things themselves. 

 

I get the feeling that many of those who cry about "people buying their way into high tiers" are just utilizing this argument, while they are in fact just jealous of others who have the kind of spare money to do it. 

 

I mean come on, give people a break for spending their money the way they like to.