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Herm_i_one

Scoring System doesn't reward Team Play

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I might have this completely wrong but everything I have witnessed so far leads me to conclude that the scoring system leans heavily towards scoring damage.  I have played far too many games in a DD now where I have captured areas, spotted for the team, taken a fair amount of potential damage but caused little damage to enemy ships and yet the BB sitting at the back of the map sniping gets to finish with higher XP.  The DD scores most of it's damage from torps, which if spotted in time are usually easy to dodge, but with the main battery it needs about 50 hits to score the same amount of damage as a BB shell.

 

I know WG factor all the game conditions into the final score ie. Potential Damage, Spotting, Capturing or Defending Areas, Causing Damage but I just feel that they are applying the same formula across the ship types, which is unrealistic.  I get that BBs want to sit at back and snipe; it's actually pretty safe play to do that but why isn't there better rewards for the ships at the front spotting the targets for them to shoot at.  In other words, a fairer share of the damage caused.  Conversely, I have capped areas in a BB, which in my own opinion is something that should not be necessary if I have supported the DDs and CAs properly.  In that case, the BB should probably get more XP for taking the Cap because it is primarily something you would expect the DD to do.

 

It is a contentious subject but I would love to hear what people think about the scoring system and maybe generate some positive feedback for WG to make the game even better for all of us.

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[HANDS]
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The score is a formula..just capping or just doing dmg is not enough.  But if u get a solo cap plus some decent dmg, u are almost guaranteed a top 3 on scoreboard. I play for the win, on all classes, with out focusing on dmg. I cap/assist cap, defend, hit as many ships i can, and i top the score board with no problem. ( ofc time to time i misplay and go to port early, that dosnt count :) )

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[LAFIE]
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The scoring system, love it or loathe it, has always been basically about one thing. Direct. Damage. Dealt.

 

Gets a bit more complicated than that when you realize it also factors in what you did damage to (ie damage to some classes is counted for more than others) but that's basically what it boils down to.

 

Not the biggest fan personally, but factoring in assisted damage and tanking might get pretty complicated..

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[SHAFT]
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Well, i dont think you need to deal that much damage actually. If you get damage on DDs and couple of caps, you are usually already quite high in the XP table.

Couple examples from last month

image.thumb.png.228f14dfd13fbedaa5595ae912da2288.png

 

image.thumb.png.6d1c293824da2e933f217c15e7e198fe.png

 

image.thumb.png.832f24ac905fc7bde3ac5c8849ee884d.png

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[NCDF]
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Damage is not being rewarded by amoint of damage, but by percentage.

Meaning, if you do 5k damage to a DD with 20k total health, it will be rewarded as 25%damage. If you do 5k damage to a BB with 100k total health, it will be rewarded as 5% damage, so it's only worth 1/5.

So it's actually no problem to score constantly in the top 3 even with just 10k damage as a DD...

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[HM-RN]
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13 minutes ago, Echo_519 said:

Damage is not being rewarded by amoint of damage, but by percentage.

Meaning, if you do 5k damage to a DD with 20k total health, it will be rewarded as 25%damage. If you do 5k damage to a BB with 100k total health, it will be rewarded as 5% damage, so it's only worth 1/5.

So it's actually no problem to score constantly in the top 3 even with just 10k damage as a DD...

My point about this is that a DD has to sit there for ever and do that 25% damage, whereas a BB can cause it with one shell - against non-DD targets.

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1 minute ago, Herm_i_one said:

 

My point about this is that a DD has to sit there for ever and do that 25% damage, whereas a BB can cause it with one shell - against non-DD targets.

 

image.png.e5ed840837009c798de99bfeba63efcc.png

In reality, BBs and DDs earn exactly the same XP (last weeks stats, T7-10)

2 Months stats they also have exactly the same.

 

Looks pretty balanced to me, when BBs also deal like 80% more raw damage.

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The system does reward damage most(note: not flat damage, but percentual of total hp of the targets), but factors like caps, plane kills, spotting and potential damage also count quite a bit. 

what gets rewarded most though is winning. and how do you win? teamplay is a good point to start. this is how team play gets taken into account. This system might not be perfect, but it's working. If you shift the focus of xp distribution you will face other problems. Also, in many situation teamplay cant be expressed by a number or a ribbon. 

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4 minutes ago, Herm_i_one said:

 

My point about this is that a DD has to sit there for ever and do that 25% damage, whereas a BB can cause it with one shell - against non-DD targets.

If u need forever to do some 5k dmg to enemy DD (25% of his HP pool)... i am sorry to say it...is not the game problem, is You. And the BB will need to do way more dmg to get some decent XP, is harder for the BB to top the score board, because is harder for them to cap. With my DD if i solo cap and kill one enemy DD, even if i die right away after, i will  still be in at least top 5 of the team. 

Please dont take it the wrong way, but by checking your stats clearly u still have a lot to learn. Maybe put some replays, lovely people of the forum to advice u.

 

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5 minutes ago, N00Boo7 said:

If u need forever to do some 5k dmg to enemy DD (25% of his HP pool)... i am sorry to say it...is not the game problem, is You. And the BB will need to do way more dmg to get some decent XP, is harder for the BB to top the score board, because is harder for them to cap. With my DD if i solo cap and kill one enemy DD, even if i die right away after, i will  still be in at least top 5 of the team. 

Please dont take it the wrong way, but by checking your stats clearly u still have a lot to learn. Maybe put some replays, lovely people of the forum to advice u.

 

Slight exaggeration in saying it takes forever, apologies for that.  The point remains though that the BB can cause that damage much quicker than the DD; I guess that's what I was trying to say :)

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Yes, but getting XP from that dmg, the BB need to do much more. Think like this, your DD has lets say 20k hp, if u do 40k  dmg, is double your HP Pool, + some caps spoting=top xp. The BB has 100k hp pool, he need to do  200k  dmg to come close to your base xp. With lower dmg,  unless he succed some caps/defend ribbons he will not top u in XP usually.

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5 minutes ago, N00Boo7 said:

Yes, but getting XP from that dmg, the BB need to do much more. Think like this, your DD has lets say 20k hp, if u do 40k  dmg, is double your HP Pool, + some caps spoting=top xp. The BB has 100k hp pool, he need to do  200k  dmg to come close to your base xp. With lower dmg,  unless he succed some caps/defend ribbons he will not top u in XP usually.

Okay.  Thanks for that.  It's not always obvious but it does make sense.  Thank you.

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On 11/12/2020 at 3:48 PM, DFens_666 said:

 

image.png.e5ed840837009c798de99bfeba63efcc.png

In reality, BBs and DDs earn exactly the same XP (last weeks stats, T7-10)

2 Months stats they also have exactly the same.

 

Looks pretty balanced to me, when BBs also deal like 80% more raw damage.

That might be, but I still "feel" that something's off.
Taking this week's ranked as an example, I played almost exclusively Småland and Daring, ending up at about 70% WR before ranking out.

My playstyle was the usual - establish map control early by determining where DDs were (or weren't), and then zoning them out (or outright killing them) at or near a cap, before taking said cap and mopping up the win.
While the overall WR was great (as for the last two seasons where I scored 80% and 60 something % respectively), I was consistently located at #2-5 in the team, where about 3/4 games had a BB on the top of the scoreboard (checking his stats, usually nothing impressive, about 50% overall WR).
 

My last game before ranking out was the only one where I really raked in.
4 total kills (2 of them DDs, nearly killed the third one solo as well), 2 solo caps, several defended ribbons, and a ton of potential damage taken (finished with Dreadnought achievement).
While I did break 2k base XP for that one, it was barely ahead of a random BB with 50% who had done nothing impressive that game (shooting at range like usual).

Either way, I can't complain about the WR itself and my carrying capacity, but even with solo cap and DD kills (which happen most of my games) I find that I struggle to save the star over those random BBs.
Same thing when I played Massa (in the first Bronze) - finished at the top in the majority of my games, just by shooting stuff.
No great plays of any kind (some basic map awareness over my fellow bronze compatriots, but still), just shooting stuff seemed to do the trick.

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On 11/12/2020 at 4:42 PM, Herm_i_one said:

My point about this is that a DD has to sit there for ever and do that 25% damage, whereas a BB can cause it with one shell - against non-DD targets.

 

Its just the way it is. Just take pride in playing a class, that is squishy and suffers like no other from CV rework but still has a lot of impact on the outcome of the game if played right.

I dont care that much about the XP when I play DD - but I care about the win. So I do my best everytime to put my team in a winning position and pat my own back, when it works out.

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10 minutes ago, ForlornSailor said:

 

Its just the way it is. Just take pride in playing a class, that is squishy and suffers like no other from CV rework but still has a lot of impact on the outcome of the game if played right.

I dont care that much about the XP when I play DD - but I care about the win. So I do my best everytime to put my team in a winning position and pat my own back, when it works out.

Same here, but it gets very annoying in ranked when some random BB repeatedly (on a loss) gets to save his star, and the DD (even when he had a great game and did most things right) doesn't.
If anything, it makes me lose the respect for BB players in general.

Petty perhaps, but I really think WG is coddling this class a bit too much at times to appease their player base (who does happen to prefer BBs).

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50 minutes ago, Hirohito said:

Either way, I can't complain about the WR itself and my carrying capacity, but even with solo cap and DD kills (which happen most of my games) I find that I struggle to save the star over those random BBs.
Same thing when I played Massa (in the first Bronze) - finished at the top in the majority of my games, just by shooting stuff.
No great plays of any kind (some basic map awareness over my fellow bronze compatriots, but still), just shooting stuff seemed to do the trick.

 

I didnt have much issues in getting first place either in BB or DD. I think in 3 losses with Cossack, i was always first place. But my teams were also very questionable in those instances.

At times ive had the impression, that i did get less XP than i should have, but definetely not all the time. And a BB blapping a Cruiser should never be underestimated in XP.

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4 hours ago, DFens_666 said:

 

I didnt have much issues in getting first place either in BB or DD. I think in 3 losses with Cossack, i was always first place. But my teams were also very questionable in those instances.

At times ive had the impression, that i did get less XP than i should have, but definetely not all the time. And a BB blapping a Cruiser should never be underestimated in XP.

 

You're a good player to start with.... so that's already counting in your favour.

 

I'm the guy sitting comfortably at 52.5 percent, and 56 in ranked.... and I often find myself outscored by BB's in the rear. BB's with a lower WR than me, I just don't have the skillz to carry them hard enough.

 

Got to think of it, wasn't the XP gain for capping and defending higher a few years ago, I faintly remember there was complaining about the DD's usually ran off with the points back then..

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58 minutes ago, Skurfa said:

 

Got to think of it, wasn't the XP gain for capping and defending higher a few years ago, I faintly remember there was complaining about the DD's usually ran off with the points back then..

Dunno, but after they nerfed CV XP gains as well, it seems that BBs are the most consistently high-scoring class right now.

Personally as a "win-focused" DD, that often doesnt pay off at all, and if I were to focus on damage my WR would tank.

I guess that's little reason to complain, but I honestly believe that BBs have it rather easy in this game.

And yes, I occasionally play BBs when I want to have a relaxed game where I want to ensure that I score high on the XP.

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It's impossible for code to interpret and reward everything a human does. When you play a cruiser with torpedoes and get 4 enemy battleships stuck in a mexican stand-off on the other side of a small island, you just took care of 1/3 the enemy team. The code will simply interpret this as you doing nothing, it might even interpret you as you being AFK. Asking wargaming to code AI on a level that would understand the human brain is asking a bit much.

What they could do is re-evaluate things for that scoreboard, feels like there's too much emphasis on damage and not enough on, well, everything else, stuff that code can and does interpret. If you contribute by keeping half the enemy team spotted for a very long period of time, your reward is, well, nothing, pretty much.

A BB farming single fires is useless, big rewards. A DD hard spotting six ships for 10 mins is useful, no reward.

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