No DD on - 43 is to blame (aka Radarhack

[FizzlePopBerryTwist]

Well WG, i told you radar is wallhack for a while now; no drawback, up to 12km range, goes through rocks and makes everyone visible... - and DD's have to take it up the propeller 

 

Today i joined games and the first thing people talk about "where are all the DD?"

Huh, i wonder where they are... after the 43 release?

PERHAPS... could it be.... they are FED UP and don't want to play anymore?

Good job!

That's one way to get rid of DDs, just ruin their fun!

 

Now, all we need are a few sea to air missiles to kill CV and ... OP submarines for the BS... and then the cruisers take out the subs, and this way we reach your final goal at last: WORLD OF CRUISER ONLY FIGHTS!

I know it's not as catchy, but I'm sure you make it work with that remaining player base of 20%

 

sigh...

 

Your break the WoWs mm economy. 

Just imagine WoT without light tanks! because every medium spots them across half the map THROUGH ROCK

- who does the spotting and the capping and goes after the artillery? Maus tank or ISU152? - because I push DOUBT on this one!

 

[hope that one sunk in since your Wows economy clearly slips your mind]

 

Seriously.

Radar sucks.

Rework it.

 

ty

[DFens_666]

1 minute ago, FizzlePopBerryTwist said:

WORLD OF CRUISER ONLY FIGHTS!

 

Yeah right, its not BBs clogging up the queue in every gamemode

[ColonelPete]

18 minutes ago, FizzlePopBerryTwist said:

Well WG, i told you radar is wallhack for a while now; no drawback, up to 12km range, goes through rocks and makes everyone visible... - and DD's have to take it up the propeller 

 

Today i joined games and the first thing people talk about "where are all the DD?"

Huh, i wonder where they are... after the 43 release?

What 43 release?

Btw. DD are still there...

[DFens_666]

1 minute ago, ColonelPete said:

What 43 release?

 

He meant the new Belfast

[HaachamaShipping]

20 minutes ago, FizzlePopBerryTwist said:

Well WG, i told you radar is wallhack for a while now; no drawback, up to 12km range, goes through rocks and makes everyone visible... - and DD's have to take it up the propeller 

Combat Maid 43 has 9 km radar, not 12 km. It's no Chapayev. It is literally the worst radar at T8 other than Tallinn. Still good enough.

21 minutes ago, FizzlePopBerryTwist said:

PERHAPS... could it be.... they are FED UP and don't want to play anymore?

If they are, they were so for quite some time already and certainly numbers tipped way back with CV introduction. Radar hasn't really made them any more scarce. Also because usually you don't see more than one Belfast per team. Often none.

23 minutes ago, FizzlePopBerryTwist said:

Just imagine WoT without light tanks! because every medium spots them across half the map THROUGH ROCK

- who does the spotting and the capping and goes after the artillery? Maus tank or ISU152? - because I push DOUBT on this one!

This isn't WoT. Never has been.

24 minutes ago, FizzlePopBerryTwist said:

Seriously.

Radar sucks.

Rework it.

If you struggle against Belfast 43 or any radar, then I don't think you were a very good DD in the first place. With some map awareness and an idea of where a cruiser can go and where it can't go, you already can avoid most of the issues of radar. Especially against a Belfast '43, the most fragile T8 cruiser only matched by maybe the Ochakov, with a worse radar and no easy overpens, meaning when you run headfirst into a DD in open waters, you likely will just get deleted before you can kill the ship spotting you, not to mention, you might just die afterwards as you shot your guns and you cannot just smoke, because if you didn't slow down before smoking, you run out of your own smoke. But compared to the many other threats, like running into a competent enemy DD or getting hunted by CV, some mediocre radar cruiser isn't really all that scary.

[Captain_Newman]

Imagine thinking adding a single, super squishy no heal t8 cruiser with a 9km radar makes a difference among all the 10-12km radar ships in the game.

 

BTW my preferred class is DD and I'm telling you right now, radar isn't a problem if you know what you're doing. A good CV can be an issue, radar can be played around quite successfully. If you're a bad player, ofc, you'll probably blame one thing or another, radar being a popular candidate there.

 

OP, feel free to buy yourself the '43 and tell me how you like the experience when Stalingrads, Petros, Kremlins, Ohios, MvR's, etc start looking at you funny.

[ColonelPete]

1 hour ago, FizzlePopBerryTwist said:

Today i joined games and the first thing people talk about "where are all the DD?"

Yeah, DD numbers are in a terrible state.

Just 5 weeks of continously increasing DD numbers and only 4 weeks of being above the weekly average of the last 2 1/2 years. Just appalling

 

http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/ranking/20201107/eu_week/average_class_u.html

 

P.S. Cruiser numbers are just 20 weeks in a row below their weekly average of the last 2 1/2 years...

P.P.S Take a guess where the BB numbers are...

[Verblonde]

I have to say (as a DD main) that the new Belfast doesn't have me quaking in my boots: the radar is only 9 km, she's a squishy light cruiser (without a heal), and the smoke is short duration (limiting scope for smoke camping).

 

If every radar ship was the new Belfast, I wouldn't be too upset; much easier to deal with than things like Chapy...

[Miscommunication]

1 hour ago, FizzlePopBerryTwist said:

[Rant]

Just play a different game man, the '43 Belfast isn't even that special.

[Figment]

Currently radar is just a long range, short lived hydro without torpedo exposure, it works too much in the same way and it is too effective against fragile targets that rely on stealth in open waters, IMO. I don't think it's a lot of fun to play with or against as it's too close to an I-win-from-a-safe-distance button at times.

 

I would like radar reworked to be more distinguishable from hydro, more like the following:

 

Reworked radar:

• Radar ranges: 8-12km (depending on tier and nation)
• Sweeping (rotating) scan with a fade effect trailing it (sudden full exposure that dims again as the scan moves on - currently it's the other way around for some reason where it starts with a map blip and only then a visual).
• Variation in rotational speed and fade time depending on nation: slower rotation results in slower fading, but takes longer until the next radar sweep (one sweep every 15-25s
  • Time limited exposure would variate between 5-10s per exposure round. Exposed ships slowly fade to invisibility again in this time. Thus you slowly lose track of the target after initial detection. This would give the target time to change course in between detections to try and throw off those aiming at it. Obviously this benefits nimbler ships like destroyers more than BBs and cruisers, but they're also more vulnerable to getting hit upon detection and have less they can do in retaliation, so that's only fair. The first sweep would likely be more of a warning to both sides, where one side would start aiming and the detected player starts running, rather than an immediate unrelenting 30s of getting spammed by everyone in the vicinity.
• Duration: 1:30-2:30mins depending on radar sweep speed (slower is longer active)
  • Total exposure time should be similar between each type of radar, it may even be related to a ship's reload speed (say two reloads possible till the next sweep hits)
• Target exposure type depends on the size and distance to the edge of any obstructions in between the radar ship and the target. The different exposures would be:
  • Full visibility and map detection when there are no obstructions in between target and radarship
  • Shorter visual exposure time when behind low profile obstruction or within/behind standard smoke screens: -50% exposure time
  • A shortlived blip on the map only when completely out of line of sight and over 100m away from the line of sight obstruction
  • Neiher visual or map exposure when more or less hugging the line of sight obstruction, simulating dead zones where the radar is not able to differentiate between target and obstruction.
  • Note: Other ships may act like obstructions.

New counter: radar reflecting fog (alternative smoke screen)

• Give smoke screen ships a choice between high density and low density smoke screens (in the same way you can pick between hydro and fighter plane). Low density smoke screen would be like that of today. High density smoke screens would have a narrower radius, be significantly darker in tone (grey to black) to be recognisable as such, and act like a radar barrier as well as a visual barrier. This type of smoke screen shows up on the map when within active radar range, alerting players to the presence of a radar barrier.
• High density smoke screen does not impact hydro, just radar
• Visibility into dense smoke screen is reduced by 1km
• Ships within the smoke screen radius need to be 50% closer to the edge of the smoke screen in order to look out of it than from within regular smoke screens

 

The narrower smoke screen radius would impose some limitations in other situations where you'd like to fog. It would make you more vulnerable to aircraft detection and torpedo strikes because you've got less smoke to hide in, so it narrows where you might be. Narrower smoke screens also risk exposing you longer while fogging at full speed as it'll take just a little longer to get out of sight. As such there'd be a trade-off to make, but it may well be worth it in games where you can expect a lot of radar cruisers.

 

 

Meh, I just think the current radar is lazy design and not very entertaining to play with or against. I'd like to see it be more cat and mouse gameplay where the hunter has to make an effort to predict the target's next move, than the prolonged exposure that leads to the piling of everyone on the same low health target that often results from it now.

[PeteEarthling]

Well, no DD is fine if you are in a BB. Pity there are still those World of Warplanes refugees...

[VeryHonarbrah]

its a 6/10 on the troll post rating system. Using a prem to argue a made up drop in class population is old troll post technique. The actual post itself gives it the extra marks to get upto the 6/10. 

[Hirohito]

23 hours ago, HaachamaShipping said:

 

If you struggle against Belfast 43 or any radar, then I don't think you were a very good DD in the first place. With some map awareness and an idea of where a cruiser can go and where it can't go, you already can avoid most of the issues of radar. 

Personally I don't get killed off by radar too often as I do take note of the enemy lineup and track their (radar) location, but the problem is more how radar can lock down a zone and make DD play rather passive.
In my Daring at least, I barely have enough gun range to light up cruisers (12,8 km), and (10km) torps are a no-go vs. 12 km soviet radars.
I could go wide on caps to spot said radar cruisers, but in randoms especially it gives no guarantee of the tucked-in radar cruisers being fired upon by BBs, so there's that too.
Petro radar only lasting 15 secs was a move in the right direction imo, but Moskva and Stalingrad radars (that potentially have 36s of radar duration) are pretty punitive in terms of zoning range vs the DDs to say the least.
Either way, I'm considering to ditch my Daring (and Z-52 which I was contemplating to get) for more dedicated long-range DDs (torp or guns), as I don't see an immediate solution to this for the shorter ranged ones.
Being specialized at cap control seems to help little when radar denies the cap in the first place.

Not really having much fun in randoms or CBs at the moment, simply because the gameplay is so stale due to lineups often having 3-4 radars on each side (some even overlapping caps with multiple radars).
I really wish there was a cap on the amount of radar cruisers in game, especially in CBs where it seems to be the dominant meta to spam games with them atm.
No wonder really though, as WG is allowing 7 cruisers on each side (and clans seem naturally inclined to let more than half of them be radar at any time, since the slot doesn't discriminate), but on the other hand they do cap the number of BBs that would usually be their natural predators.
 

[GarrusBrutus]

3 hours ago, Figment said:

I would like radar reworked to be more distinguishable from hydro, more like the following:
-snip-

I like it, but you do realise that this would mean an increase in difficulty level of the game. Since more than half the playerbase can't even distinguish HE from AP, let alone this edition of radar(counters).

[OldPappy]

16 minutes ago, Hirohito said:

Personally I don't get killed off by radar too often as I do take note of the enemy lineup and track their (radar) location, but the problem is more how radar can lock down a zone and make DD play rather passive.
In my Daring at least, I barely have enough gun range to light up cruisers (12,8 km), and (10km) torps are a no-go vs. 12 km soviet radars.
I could go wide on caps to spot said radar cruisers, but in randoms especially it gives no guarantee of the tucked-in radar cruisers being fired upon by BBs, so there's that too.
Petro radar only lasting 15 secs was a move in the right direction imo, but Moskva and Stalingrad radars (that potentially have 36s of radar duration) are pretty punitive in terms of zoning range vs the DDs to say the least.
Either way, I'm considering to ditch my Daring (and Z-52 which I was contemplating to get) for more dedicated long-range DDs (torp or guns), as I don't see an immediate solution to this for the shorter ranged ones.
Being specialized at cap control seems to help little when radar denies the cap in the first place.

Not really having much fun in randoms or CBs at the moment, simply because the gameplay is so stale due to lineups often having 3-4 radars on each side (some even overlapping caps with multiple radars).
I really wish there was a cap on the amount of radar cruisers in game, especially in CBs where it seems to be the dominant meta to spam games with them atm.
No wonder really though, as WG is allowing 7 cruisers on each side (and clans seem naturally inclined to let more than half of them be radar at any time, since the slot doesn't discriminate), but on the other hand they do cap the number of BBs that would usually be their natural predators.
 

Lightning, Jutland and Daring are good allround dds against all classes. The Swedish dds från Skåne and up are very good to counter radars due to torp range and torp speed. Öland but especially Östergötland and Halland with excellent aa and +13 km torps are very good in the new long range radar and cv meta. 
And I agree with you that as long as you note the present radars and where they are you can work very well around them. The longer the match is the less impact radars have. They use up consumables  ans/or get killed off. And the bigger the dd impact gets in return. 
 

[Hirohito]

28 minutes ago, OldPappy said:

Lightning, Jutland and Daring are good allround dds against all classes. The Swedish dds från Skåne and up are very good to counter radars due to torp range and torp speed. Öland but especially Östergötland and Halland with excellent aa and +13 km torps are very good in the new long range radar and cv meta. 
And I agree with you that as long as you note the present radars and where they are you can work very well around them. The longer the match is the less impact radars have. They use up consumables  ans/or get killed off. And the bigger the dd impact gets in return. 
 

The EU DDs seem good yeah, unfortunately I was not able to get the special commander in time so I'm not feeling the urge to grind the line anytime soon.
I feel that I have to though, as atm I don't see a good role for me as a DD in CBs as long as I continue with Daring due to the radar spam.
3-4 radar per lineup is common even in Gale now, and I frequently wish I had a Halland, Småland, Somers or Marceau right now instead.
The Daring especially feels very unimpactful if the team is pressured or about to collapse on a flank, and there happens to be any radar presence nearby.
With any long-ranged boats I feel that I would at least be able to pressure back, which the frequent radar spam is currently making difficult.

[OldPappy]

55 minutes ago, Hirohito said:

The EU DDs seem good yeah, unfortunately I was not able to get the special commander in time so I'm not feeling the urge to grind the line anytime soon.

They are very enjoyable I think. And I believe the commander in Question will become available for 175k coal in the armory eventually. Hopefully  in the next few upgrades. I didnt get him either but they are still very strong boats!

[Ronchabale]

On 11/8/2020 at 2:58 PM, FizzlePopBerryTwist said:

Well WG, i told you radar is wallhack for a while now; no drawback, up to 12km range, goes through rocks and makes everyone visible... - and DD's have to take it up the propeller 

 

Today i joined games and the first thing people talk about "where are all the DD?"

Huh, i wonder where they are... after the 43 release?

PERHAPS... could it be.... they are FED UP and don't want to play anymore?

Good job!

That's one way to get rid of DDs, just ruin their fun!

 

Dunno if the addition of 1 radar cruiser has changed the "fun" with DD:s much

 

[Figment]

5 hours ago, GarrusBrutus said:

I like it, but you do realise that this would mean an increase in difficulty level of the game. Since more than half the playerbase can't even distinguish HE from AP, let alone this edition of radar(counters).

It would, but I mean if the goal is to dumb it down, we got some way to go till we reach pong level.

 

IMO if you add something it should be meaninful and have up and downsides and not work exactly like something else. There should be trade-offs and counters. The above suggestion should provide teamwork and counterplay options which should make it feel more fun and fair from both sides.

[Deckeru_Maiku]

5 hours ago, Ronchabale said:

Dunno if the addition of 1 radar cruiser has changed the "fun" with DD:s much

 

Most probably wouldn't bother much about just another radar in the game, while having "to dodge" all those rocket salvos send against them...

[Verblonde]

7 hours ago, Hirohito said:

The EU DDs seem good yeah, unfortunately I was not able to get the special commander in time so I'm not feeling the urge to grind the line anytime soon.

Slightly off-topic, but I wouldn't let the lack of the captain be the deciding factor with regard to whether or not to play the Ikeas - he makes rather less difference than a lot of the other magic captains.

 

Boosted AA is nice, but if you've knocked down 20+ planes already you're probably facing a lower tier CV anyway, making the boost merely 'nice to have'; the torps reload boost generally only kicks in quite late in the battle, so - again - the impact is commonly marginal. The boosted AR is slightly worthwhile (assuming there are no changes in the rework), but even that is a marginal gain, especially on a line of healing DDs.

 

Basically, if you have him - yay - but it's not a killer if you don't.

[Hopeless_Guppy]

Maybe they will introduce a radar DD soon, with heal tons of smoke and long range torps, seems legit

[DFens_666]

6 minutes ago, Inappropriate_noob said:

Maybe they will introduce a radar DD soon, with heal tons of smoke and long range torps, seems legit

 

Unholy child from Black and Smaland?

[xe_N_on]

Am 8.11.2020 um 16:35, ColonelPete sagte:

Yeah, DD numbers are in a terrible state.

Just 5 weeks of continously increasing DD numbers and only 4 weeks of being above the weekly average of the last 2 1/2 years. Just appalling

 

http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/ranking/20201107/eu_week/average_class_u.html

 

P.S. Cruiser numbers are just 20 weeks in a row below their weekly average of the last 2 1/2 years...

P.P.S Take a guess where the BB numbers are...

 Fascinating, a lot of DD player I see in-game have not so good or even bad stats but apparently still keep playing.

 

I also have some moments where I ask my self, why not join the  battleship zerk, there is a Thunderer waiting to be used :). But that's are only weak moments!

 

 

[ColonelPete]

12 minutes ago, xe_N_on said:

 Fascinating, a lot of DD player I see in-game have not so good or even bad stats but apparently still keep playing.

 

I also have some moments where I ask my self, why not join the  battleship zerk, there is a Thunderer waiting to be used :). But that's are only weak moments!

The players of other classes have similar stats and still keep playing.