capture a cap or keep a DD alive

[_Lupastro_]

It's an old question, but in these days I'm seeing a lot of players, newbies and not skilled DD players (and I swear I'm not a skilled one, just normal ) that at start run into a CAP when in game there are 2 + radars, enemy smoke+hydro destroyer and maybe a CV.

I'm more or less a DD main player and my opinion is that a CAP doesn't worth a DD sunk, especially at the beginning.

I see a lot of complaining from other players that a DD doesn't run into a CAP but... a CAP can be recovered.. a sunk DD NO! So please DD players... evaluate the enemy deployment at beginning... so maybe you don't suicide in the first 2 min of game making partially blind your own team.

 

Another question is, when I play DD my primary goal is to SPOT enemy ships and counter spot DDs, not duel with them  if not strictly necessary and, often, only if I have the support of at least one comrade. I prefer not to fire if my DD outperform the enemy one. Better keep him spotted....

 

So please DDs players... don't run in a CAP or engage duel with enemies DD if youre not sure to win, the 1 - 1 excange of dead DDs doesn't help very much... (at least DDs players on my side )

 

Please I know I can't teach to anybody and It's not my intention, just a simple reasoning and exchange of views.

 

 

See you in battle!

[ColonelPete]

11 minutes ago, _Lupastro_ said:

I'm more or less a DD main player and my opinion is that a CAP doesn't worth a DD sunk, especially at the beginning.

That is right.

 

But it is also possible to snatch the cap early, when you know what you are doing.

Depending on the DD you play, you go in early, wait or ambush enemy DD when they enter the cap.

 

But it is a good idea to put some kind on pressure on the cap. Try to spot the enemy cruiser and BB around the cap or get a lucky torp hit on the enemy DD.

[_Lupastro_]

2 minuti fa, ColonelPete ha scritto:

That is right.

 

But it is also possible to snatch the cap early, when you know what you are doing.

Depending on the DD you play, you go in early, wait or ambush enemy DD when they enter the cap.

 

But it is a good idea to put some kind on pressure on the cap. Try to spot the enemy cruiser and BB around the cap or get a lucky torp hit on the enemy DD.

Yes you're right about pressure or a "random hit" on enemy DD. But only if you've well rated what kind of DD there are in enemy team and if there are other spotters around (planes, radars); for example, I've a 6,8km spot range DD, and enemies have only German (smoke + hydro) or japanese DD, with better conc, why the hell am I supposed to rush into a CAP? my % of survival or to win are very few... that is what I want to explain...

 

 

[GarrusBrutus]

Gotta love the good old "sail into the cap whilst smoking and stopping broadside inside my smoke"-DDs who promptly get torped. 

[ForlornSailor]

37 minutes ago, _Lupastro_ said:

So please DDs players... don't run in a CAP or engage duel with enemies DD if youre not sure to win, the 1 - 1 excange of dead DDs doesn't help very much... (at least DDs players on my side )

 

Nothing wrong in going into the cap right away - if you know how to do it. Also nothing wrong with engaging the enemy DD yourself. I can make the difference between the DD sunk or escaping with low health and at some point later dev striking one of your BBs... or 2. But again: you need to be very sure, that the exchange in health is worth it.

 

It can also be very well worth the trade of both entire DDs. example? Your team has 2 DDs left, you are an Asashio, enemys have one 1 DD left and all BBs are dead. Nothing better then trading your Asashio at this point against the enemy DD.

[BlueNautilus]

9 minutes ago, GarrusBrutus said:

Gotta love the good old "sail into the cap whilst smoking and stopping broadside inside my smoke"-DDs who promptly get torped. 

I still do this regularly, I just cannot learn the lesson :D

[Cyclops_]

If and only if the support is there will I go into a cap and then only if I know where the enemy radar ships are, learnt the hard way 😔. What is so frustrating is your own BB shouting for you to cap and then as soon as they are spotted the turn away, show broadside, lose a load of hp and then run away 😱🤔

[DFens_666]

32 minutes ago, GarrusBrutus said:

Gotta love the good old "sail into the cap whilst smoking and stopping broadside inside my smoke"-DDs who promptly get torped. 

 

Lately it seems, DD play has hit rock bottom... except ofc when i play DDs on my own, enemy DDs are just super smart. Yesterday had 2 Öland div (good clan) against me in Lightning. Well, managed to outplay those because they didnt dare to push me. But other game in Ognevoi, naturally i have to face Asashio (full concealment, because those without are always on my team) and a Cossack. Asashio even went [edited]in into the cap While i tried to battle those 2, my entire team evaporated

[BlueNautilus]

6 minutes ago, Cyclops_ said:

What is so frustrating is your own BB shouting for you to cap and then as soon as they are spotted the turn away, show broadside, lose a load of up and then run away 😱🤔

Often what DDs need to be effective in capping is bigger ships which are prepared to push.  A very common scenario nowadays (at least in my limited experience) is the bigger ships on your team refusing to push, hugging edge of the map or hiding behind an island.  Even if you spot things, they're too far to provide meaningful support or they don't have the line of sight to provide cover for you.  So, if you're in DD, you're often left to you own devices...  It is why every now and then, I just swtich to Asashio and play a completely selfish game of sniping BBs and CVs.  Of course, when I do so, people complain that I don't cap or spot. 

[Karasu_Browarszky]

1 minute ago, BlueNautilus said:

Often what DDs need to be effective in capping is bigger ships which are prepared to push.  A very common scenario nowadays (at least in my limited experience) is the bigger ships on your team refusing to push, hugging edge of the map or hiding behind an island.  Even if you spot things, they're too far to provide meaningful support or they don't have the line of sight to provide cover for you.  So, if you're in DD, you're often left to you own devices...  It is why every now and then, I just swtich to Asashio and play a completely selfish game of sniping BBs and CVs.  Of course, when I do so, people complain that I don't cap or spot. 

 

Yeah, from my DD's point of view the way it often goes I face an enemy DD fully supported by their team, whereas my team is just standing by and watching....

 

Nowadays I try to be a lot more careful about trying to go for cap, and despite that I get caught in the act a little too often. I prefer torpedo/stealth builds as a rule, so I try to take advantage of that and spot the enemy DD first, keep visual contact in the hope that my team will sink it. Cap denial is another tactic I use where possible, but I don't like it as much because it is less efficient. To me it is preferable to survive and let the enemy cap, since I can always come back later to take the cap for my team.

[_Lupastro_]

21 minuti fa, Karasu_Hidesuke ha scritto:

 

Yeah, from my DD's point of view the way it often goes I face an enemy DD fully supported by their team, whereas my team is just standing by and watching....

 

Nowadays I try to be a lot more careful about trying to go for cap, and despite that I get caught in the act a little too often. I prefer torpedo/stealth builds as a rule, so I try to take advantage of that and spot the enemy DD first, keep visual contact in the hope that my team will sink it. Cap denial is another tactic I use where possible, but I don't like it as much because it is less efficient. To me it is preferable to survive and let the enemy cap, since I can always come back later to take the cap for my team.

This, totally agree!

[Camperdown]

Cap, live and let die 

[Miscommunication_dept]

I find myself too often trying to cap in my Paolo while low detection destroyers hide.

 

I really should hang back more but it often feels fruitless.

 

Ive respecced into AFT so my 14km range and good shell speed give me other options. 

With Marceau  I charge into caps and kill whatever’s there before taking their smoke. Friesland using smoke and hydro, I clear out the cap zone the same way. 

As others have said, I need to survive early on to take caps later and resist the urge to charge in when my team are not supporting.

 

[GraySlayer]

5 hours ago, _Lupastro_ said:

It's an old question, but in these days I'm seeing a lot of players, newbies and not skilled DD players (and I swear I'm not a skilled one, just normal ) that at start run into a CAP when in game there are 2 + radars, enemy smoke+hydro destroyer and maybe a CV.

I'm more or less a DD main player and my opinion is that a CAP doesn't worth a DD sunk, especially at the beginning.

I see a lot of complaining from other players that a DD doesn't run into a CAP but... a CAP can be recovered.. a sunk DD NO! So please DD players... evaluate the enemy deployment at beginning... so maybe you don't suicide in the first 2 min of game making partially blind your own team.

 

Another question is, when I play DD my primary goal is to SPOT enemy ships and counter spot DDs, not duel with them  if not strictly necessary and, often, only if I have the support of at least one comrade. I prefer not to fire if my DD outperform the enemy one. Better keep him spotted....

 

So please DDs players... don't run in a CAP or engage duel with enemies DD if youre not sure to win, the 1 - 1 excange of dead DDs doesn't help very much... (at least DDs players on my side )

 

Please I know I can't teach to anybody and It's not my intention, just a simple reasoning and exchange of views.

 

 

See you in battle!

 

I will often go into cap straight away BUT

I am turned round ready to run
I am already aware of where the plane lanes are
I am looking for radar to pop up as it gets spotted and adjusting if needed to stay out of range. I will leave cap immediately he comes into range and by comes into range I mean 200 meters closing so 12.2 for example.
I am using my stealth and RPF to figure out where the approaching dd in coming from, have already fired fish in that direction and then keeping him spotted when he does appear

Yeah lots going on for your average DD player.. I'm not surprised in the slightest that new and lesser skilled DD players get killed like fish in a barrel.

[Bear__Necessities]

You can still take the cap quick and early. You just need the skills. This is a player skill issue. Not a DD should or should not do something issue. In fact, the more of you who stay away from the caps early, the more caps I get to take. 

[Karasu_Browarszky]

1 hour ago, Bear__Necessities said:

You can still take the cap quick and early. You just need the skills. This is a player skill issue. Not a DD should or should not do something issue. In fact, the more of you who stay away from the caps early, the more caps I get to take. 

 

Hoarder!

[lafeel]

Let's not forget there are more ways to keep a enemy team from taking a cap than just taking it yourselves..

[Bear__Necessities]

8 minutes ago, Karasu_Hidesuke said:

 

Hoarder!

Indeed I am. Last 2 months show it.

 

NA acc No.1 

 

NA acc No. 2

 

I'm all about that Base that Base, point scoring.

[FixCVs_Nautical_Metaphor]

Capping has become a lot less important for me as well when playing DDs, chiefly because teamplay is not rewarded highly enough and damage is rewarded much better.

When early caps are won, that's the first step to one of two very frequent scenarios:

• Quick steamroll win with less time for me to do more damage, or
• "Green Alert" (=all caps in our posession), followed by an outbreak of Win Harder Syndrome on my team, which in turn is usually followed by a loss.

Or the other thing that happens is I contest the cap too tenaciously and die early like a muppet, not the least because the DDs I like best are not the best cap contesters.

I have not kept detailed statistics of course but it feels like these happen a lot more often to me than running out of time and losing because of too little cap posession.

After an early cap, more often than not, I find myself wishing we could give back a cap at some point, just so I have more time to blap the campers, especially if they are CVs.

(It goes without saying but I'll say it anyway, entering a cap before the positions of the radars are known is a very high risk and more often than not, a needless one that should be avoided.)

[lovelacebeer]

When I play DD I do tend to focus on grabbing caps, although I'm not willing to throw my ship away in the process, as long as I'm alive I can keep making attempts on it as well as spot and do damage. 

 

The only situation where I won't make at least an attempt at an early cap is if it's a map that favours radar cruisers (when they are present) denying the cap. In that situation I would rather play it safe by working the flank and try to dislodge the enemy team either though torps or spotting for my team. 

 

One thing though when playing it safe I prefer to announce in chat that I will spot around a cap before trying to cap it, it reduces the likelyhood of a <40% win rate player trying to team damage me for not playing in the way he thinks I should.

[Johnny_Moneto]

Vor 1 Stunde, FixCVs_Nautical_Metaphor sagte:

Capping has become a lot less important for me as well when playing DDs, chiefly because teamplay is not rewarded highly enough and damage is rewarded much better.

 

I don't care for rewards. If we win fast because I capped, I am happy to move on to the next battle hoping for a better match composition.

[HMS_Kilinowski]

11 hours ago, _Lupastro_ said:

Please I know I can't teach to anybody and It's not my intention, just a simple reasoning and exchange of views.

 

What exchange of views? You didn't pose any questions. You didn't even make a provocative statement. So you made an extra topic to demand the obvious, that DDs think before risking their ship. We all agree. I don't see anything worth discussing. Am I missing something?

[Camperdown]

8 hours ago, FixCVs_Nautical_Metaphor said:

Capping has become a lot less important for me as well when playing DDs, chiefly because teamplay is not rewarded highly enough and damage is rewarded much better.

When early caps are won, that's the first step to one of two very frequent scenarios:

• Quick steamroll win with less time for me to do more damage, or
• "Green Alert" (=all caps in our posession), followed by an outbreak of Win Harder Syndrome on my team, which in turn is usually followed by a loss.

Or the other thing that happens is I contest the cap too tenaciously and die early like a muppet, not the least because the DDs I like best are not the best cap contesters.

I have not kept detailed statistics of course but it feels like these happen a lot more often to me than running out of time and losing because of too little cap posession.

After an early cap, more often than not, I find myself wishing we could give back a cap at some point, just so I have more time to blap the campers, especially if they are CVs.

(It goes without saying but I'll say it anyway, entering a cap before the positions of the radars are known is a very high risk and more often than not, a needless one that should be avoided.)

RU radars are brief. US radars are the real risk, esp CA radar as CL radar just ranges 9 km.

So it's a lot more nuanced than just 'radars'. 

I look at where the planes go, whether there is a US CA at my cap and which DD may oppose me.

If my CV does a good recon and odds are not too bad, I try a cautious immediate cap. 

The one thing that makes me laugh out loud is if I see the enemy DD running from the cap for our planes 

[Migantium_Mashum]

15 hours ago, BlueNautilus said:

Often what DDs need to be effective in capping is bigger ships which are prepared to push.  A very common scenario nowadays (at least in my limited experience) is the bigger ships on your team refusing to push, hugging edge of the map or hiding behind an island.  Even if you spot things, they're too far to provide meaningful support or they don't have the line of sight to provide cover for you.  So, if you're in DD, you're often left to you own devices...  It is why every now and then, I just switch to Asashio and play a completely selfish game of sniping BBs and CVs.  Of course, when I do so, people complain that I don't cap or spot. 

and yet when you ask a BB or group of BB's to help you... That's such a terrible thing to do.... and if you make a post about it that's worse still...

 

From a few days ago, I now play my own game and if nobody supports me I don't cap.... I had a game yesterday in my Shima trying to Cap (at C) where 4 Allied BB's and 1 Cruiser nestled comfortably behind Islands as far north as the B line... they wouldn't help me at all after Moskva and Petra moved against me... So I left C went to A to help there..

Every BB at the C Cap was sunk between Moskva and Petra and this is a Tier 10 game where you'd have thought that 4 BB's could have smashed two Cruisers....

 

I suspect that the BB's don't like getting their paint scratched.

[Ubertron_X]

Usually an early cap is not worth it if doing so leaves you dead or crippled. Depending on your type of DD vs the enemy type of DDs, the number and type of enemy radar ships and the presence of a CV an early cap can still be worth it, especially as many "middle" caps are often left abandoned.

 

When in doubt my prime objective is to provide spotting for the team and while doing so expose, cripple / drive away or sink the enemy DD, capping only comes second (also this strategy of course also works in standard battle). In my experience the number of battles that are decided by points are a lot less than the number of battles won by kills and/or steamrolls (others experiences may differ).