question to devs Are there any Plans for T11 and T12

[Sunleader]

As the Title Says. This is effectively more of a Question to Wargaming than a Discussion Topic.

Question is. Are there currently Plans for Introducing T11 and T12 to the Game ?

 

Lately we are getting more and more Ships. And also more and more of them which effectively Break the Rules that were established before.

And in alot of cases these also make other older Ships obsolete because they get Similar or even the Same Benefits but at the same Time get Different or in some cases just Outright less Drawbacks for it.

We also get a lot of New Stuff which brings entirely new things to the Table which just due to that effectively removes older Ships from the Game as there is just very little Benefit in using them anymore.

Which is nothing New. WG is pretty aware that each Ship they Add will indirectly also Effect other Ships already Existing. Which might be one reason why after suddenly much more Ships getting Great Secondaries. German BBs actually received some Buffs recently.

 

 

And especially lately. We often see Especially High Tiers in T9 and T10 getting new Ships.

So that makes me Wonder. Is there any Plans or Considerations to maybe Extend the Tier Levels to make more Room for these Ships which often get Special Treatment above the Older Ships as WG takes care that New Ships wont just get Stomped in the Established Meta ?

 

 

For example.

T11 for some of the Steel Monster currently Available which often are extremely Effective at whatever they are doing ?

Or maybe is T11 Planned for some more Modern Ships from the Korean War Era ?

 

 

@Sehales @MrConway

Maybe you could Satisfy my Curiosity on this.

 

 

 

 

Now Honestly said I am only Interested in wether its Planned or not rather than if its a Good Idea or not.

But given that the Forum is more for Discussion than for Questions. I guess it wont Hurt to Also Discuss wether T11 and/or T12 are a Good Idea and if you would Support it.

 

I for my Part. Think its a mixed Bag really. And it Depends alot on how it would be Implemented.

 

For example.

If T11 became an Exclusive Tier for the current Special T10s. Available for Steel, Coal etc.

Then this would have a range of Advantages.

First off these Ships would not need Rebalancing as they would just Fight each other and thus be T11 in MM and Name Only. Thus not really needing to be more Powerful than T10s.

Which also would serve as a Balancer a bit. As you would be more Likely to have a Player that has Experience on each Team. As both sides get a Special Ship Player who has Earned a large amount of Ingame Ressources.

As well as Loosening the Grip on T8 a bit. Because right now T8 often Suffers from the vast Amount of T10 Ships available it can meet by now.

It would however also come with Drawbacks. After all These Ships would now Face T9 minimum which might make them less Attractive compared to Regular Tier 10s.

And It would also be a bit Harder for MM cause it has a more Limited Pool of People to Draw from in T11. Potentially increasing Matchmaking Waiting Times for these Ships.

 

Or if T11 became a Regular thing. It would mean that each Line would need to get an Addition Ship. And these Ships would also need to be more Powerful in some way to Justify the higher Rating.

Which would be Cool cause it would also ease up pressure on T8 by giving the Plentiful Supply of T10 Ships an upward Option thus making it less likely for T8 to be Dragged into T10.

It would however also make things worse for T9s as unlike the above mentioned Option where T9s would not care as much as they just meet the same T10s that are now labeled as T11s. it would be actually Stronger Ships they now meet in T11 Battles in this variant. As these would be actually T11 Ships. And Possible T12 Ships which would mean 2 new Ships on each Line etc.

 

Then there is also the option briefly mentioned above. That T11 and Upwards could become Similar to the T4-5 Threshold. Where we get a MM Barrier that only Allows 1 Tier Difference. As we Introduce more Modern Ships from the Korean War Era or Possibly even the Cold War Era. :)

 

 

 

[ColonelPete]

All Q&A up to now said no.

[Prophecy82]

I thought FdR is considered as the first T11 ship...

[Srle_Vigilante]

Can we not, please?

[Miscommunication_dept]

I hope not!

[quickr]

If WOT didn't introduce tiers above tier10 i don't see WOWs doing it anytime soon, if ever. They'll just keep on stuffing ships into same brackets, constantly power creeping those that came early.

Besides WG have new toys to play with, subs and hybrids.

[Miscommunication_dept]

What would 11 and 12 involve? Surely more large ships and lots of missile carrying destroyers? 
 

It would be a very different game.

[CptBarney]

4 minutes ago, gopher31 said:

What would 11 and 12 involve? Surely more large ships and lots of missile carrying destroyers? 

Lots of fat ships with uge guns and missiles.

Probs see super stalingrad with 406's and 50km ballistic missiles.

 

Also the thickest BB's know to man in the form of vermonts older sisters and GKF's sisters as well.

Maybe 508mm kremlin as well.

 

And god knows what else, maybe des memes with 2 sec reload with 229mm guns or something.

 

[Sunleader]

16 minutes ago, gopher31 said:

What would 11 and 12 involve? Surely more large ships and lots of missile carrying destroyers? 
 

It would be a very different game.

 

Thats unknown right now to be Honest.

Because it would Depend on how it would Implemented.

 

In Theory T11 could be Created without a Single Additional Ship being Added.

T11 basicly just being the current Special T10 Ships available for Steel, RP, Coal and Free Exp.

Thus T11 basicly just being Special T10s which cannot go into T8.

 

In Theory T11 and T12 could also be used with a +1 -1 MM to Create a Similar Split in the Game as we have in T4-5 where WW1 Ships slowly move into WW2 Ships.

Hence T11 and T12 being Korea War Ships for example. Which would mostly Include Destroyers that have Autoloader Guns and Homing Torpedoes. (Actually not Missiles at this Point as these came a good bit Later)

In Fact alot of the current T10 Ships like Gearing and Worcester are actually Korea Era Ships already.

So you would effectively just get more Ships comparable to those with better Rate of Fire etc.

 

In Theory T11 and T12 could also as you Say. Serve to Introduce Cold War Era Ships. Which basicly means to Include Ships from the later 50s and possibly 60s. Which would mean Missiles and Long Range Homing Torpedoes.

However. Just like the Game is Extremely Different in T4 when Compared to T10. This would be a Major Shift.

And likely Cold War Era Ships would be more Fitting for Wargaming to move into Tiers 13-14 because like the Changes from T4 to T8 where DDs Suddenly Torpedoe from Outside their Detection Range. Where Overmatch and Angling Suddenly become a Big Factor. Where you suddenly get Radar and Hydro as well as Reload Boosters and where Ships Generally have Superfiring Weapons on Center Line of the Ship rather than being Spiked with Guns in all Directions.

These new Mechanics of Missiles and Single Homing Torps instead of Torp Spreads would likely feel alot like the Game has Changed.

 

 

However. As I said. I have no Explicit Wish for T11 or above to Appear.

I am just Interested if WG has any Plans in that Direction.

And if Yes I would like to know what they Envision.

 

 

Right now for example we are also moving Forward to the Big Skills Rework. Which will without Doubt massively Change the Picture.

As we are not just looking at Completely new Skills available.

But we are also looking at Skills being extremely different between Classes. And some of them being Outright Playstyle Changes that can massively Alter what the Ship is Capable off.

 

[anonym_WHY4JO92xZKJ]

And what Battleships they would put on tier 11 and 12?

Cold war ships started to remove artillery to have missiles, while nuclear subs and carriers with jets, turned battleships into artillery support for the marines

To put a tier 11 into the game, you should  choose between:

 

Ships with no armor, light artillery, ultra aa, and guided missiles with 30 km+ of range

 

Sci fi / Steampunk ships that never exhisted 

[lovelacebeer]

Unlikely knowing WG to date, but even if they were considering it (which I sincerely doubt) they wouldn't say so until they felt ready and announce it through a devblog.

[fumtu]

19 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

In Fact alot of the current T10 Ships like Gearing and Worcester are actually Korea Era Ships already.

 

Gearing is ww2 era ship. It is basically just a somewhat longer version of Allen M Sumner class. It is designed and built during the ww2, 4 ships of the class even served in ww2. Major difference between Gearing and Allen M Sumner is range as Gearing class carrier more fuel. But basic design, and armament is the same.

[Captain_Newman]

I hope not. It’d instantly devalue pretty much everything you own. Plus I don’t think the addition of modern weapons systems like guided missiles would fit the game. Just play cold waters if you want that sort of thing.

[Fat_Maniac]

4 hours ago, ColonelPete said:

All Q&A up to now said no.

Actually No it didn't.

 

On a stream a while ago involvong two of the Senior dev team, it was said T11 and 12 are possible, once a significant T10 population had grown. They said not short term but maybe in a couple of years it will be considered.

[ColonelPete]

1 minute ago, Fat_Maniac said:

Actually No it didn't.

 

On a stream a while ago involvong two of the Senior dev team, it was said T11 and 12 are possible, once a significant T10 population had grown. They said not short term but maybe in a couple of years it will be considered.

We have a significant Tier X population for two years. Nothing happened.

[anonym_WHY4JO92xZKJ]

9 minutes ago, Fat_Maniac said:

Actually No it didn't.

 

On a stream a while ago involvong two of the Senior dev team, it was said T11 and 12 are possible, once a significant T10 population had grown. They said not short term but maybe in a couple of years it will be considered.

And what kind of battleships and cruisers we will see at tier 12?

 

Destroyers... Ok

 

Carriers... Ok

 

Cruisers...

With missiles?

With fantasy high caliber auto loading guns?

With anti air "machineguns" like the Smolensk?

 

Battleships?

What kind of battleships we could see?

An iowa with cruise missiles?

A sci fi upgraded Yamato with cruise missiles?

A sci fi russian battleship with stalinium armor and tesla guns?

 

While carriers and destroyers were developed after ww2, cruisers evolved in a different way, and no new battleships were planned

[PeteEarthling]

54 minutes ago, dunbine said:

Sci fi / Steampunk ships that never exhisted 

But we have Glorious Fantasy Navy already, comrade.

[CptBarney]

2 minutes ago, dunbine said:

And what kind of battleships and cruisers we will see at tier 12?

 

Destroyers... Ok

 

Carriers... Ok

 

Cruisers...

With missiles?

With fantasy high caliber auto loading guns?

With anti air "machineguns" like the Smolensk?

 

Battleships?

What kind of battleships we could see?

An iowa with cruise missiles?

A sci fi upgraded Yamato with cruise missiles?

A sci fi russian battleship with stalinium armor and tesla guns?

 

While carriers and destroyers were developed after ww2, cruisers evolved in a different way, and no new battleships were planned

You could just develop cruisers, supercruisers, battlecruisers and battleships as they would of gone if CV's and missile weren't as prevalent or simply just give them loads of missiles and a few guns.

[Fat_Maniac]

4 minutes ago, dunbine said:

And what kind of battleships and cruisers we will see at tier 12?

 

Destroyers... Ok

 

Carriers... Ok

 

Cruisers...

With missiles?

With fantasy high caliber auto loading guns?

With anti air "machineguns" like the Smolensk?

 

Battleships?

What kind of battleships we could see?

An iowa with cruise missiles?

A sci fi upgraded Yamato with cruise missiles?

A sci fi russian battleship with stalinium armor and tesla guns?

 

While carriers and destroyers were developed after ww2, cruisers evolved in a different way, and no new battleships were planned

Well WG have no problem giving us paper ships and fantasy designs

[rimmer_the]

I'm interested what dialect of English capitalises almost every word....

[Birkebein]

1950-70's ships would be subs, carriers, and anti-sub, anti-carrier vessels.  Refitted BBs for novelty value sporting same armament as destroyer escorts/frigates (but just less efficient, in all ways). 1980s to 91, same ships with increasing level of counter capabilities.  All ships of era would be "one-shot kills".  I think I'd just take a carrier and drop the largest dirty nuke available for the win... sort of win... maybe a win in a game (we all know it'd be a loss... as an aside, maybe a parallel: like cheap energy? like fish? How about Fukushima... yep, that sort of win).  Nixon had it right, it would all just be MAD, Mutually Assured Destruction - all out war as winnable isn't possible, so modelling major navies and their arsenals post 50s for an all out engagement is just a dead end - you play, all particpants lose.

 

[UnterSeeBot]

Excellent question. 

FDR could for example, be part of a unique Tier XII, where all the FDRs could gather together.

Bourgs, Stalins and so on, could enjoy a unique exclusive premium with bells and whistles Tier XI.

[Sunleader]

I love how Everyone just keeps Ignoring everything I say on different Possibilities and everyone Just Instantly Thinks of Cold War Era for T11 and T12. Worse everything seems to be Thinking Cold War Era in the Late 80s with Laser Guided Missiles ^^

 

 

1 hour ago, dunbine said:

And what Battleships they would put on tier 11 and 12?

Cold war ships started to remove artillery to have missiles, while nuclear subs and carriers with jets, turned battleships into artillery support for the marines

To put a tier 11 into the game, you should  choose between:

 

Ships with no armor, light artillery, ultra aa, and guided missiles with 30 km+ of range

 

Sci fi / Steampunk ships that never exhisted 

 

That Depends on what kind of T11 and T12 you expect.

If your Expecting a Korea Era T11 and T12 then actually most of the Ships would be Minor Upgrades over Existing T10s. Or even Current T10s moved up with Minor or even no Balancing Changes.

Because there wasnt such a Big Movement in Korean War Era.

 

If you Expect Cold War Era.

Then it would likely be Conversions like Iowa Class. And Potential Adaptions and Designs from other Nations.

 

You can say its not Realistic. But the Simple Answer you get. Is that the entire Game is not Realistic.

Guided Missiles with 30km Range ?

You are Aware that pretty much all T9+ Battleships in the Game should have over 40km Range right ?

Ultra AA ? Sorry to tell you. But Actually AA is about as Realistic as Star Wars Stormtroopers in this Game. In Reality the entire meaning behind AA was to keep Planes away so they would miss. Which worked Fantastic as Planes hat a Hit Ratio of maybe 1 in 200. Which is not Surprising. Because if a Plane actually Flies Close to you in a Straight Line where it can Aim a Bomb or Torpedo. Its an Extremely easy Target that your almost Guaranteed to Hit as its basicly just Point and Fire.

In Reality Aiming was Exceedingly Difficult as you could not just Fly towards the Target. And Torpedo Bombers often Dropped Torpedoes from 1-2km away.

Light Artillery ? You do realize that Heavy Artillery was Maintained even on Iowa Class Battleships right ?

In Fact with Proper Radar and Laser Guided Aim these Guns could become rather Accurate on Extreme Ranges later on.

No Armor ? So you think Missouri had no Armor after getting a Missile Battery Installed in the Rear Ship ???? Who told you that.

 

 

Needless to say.

Ships Ingame already have Laughable Armor thanks to Overmatch which did not Exist. And thanks to HE Shells from a Destroyer basicly being able to Sink a Battleship.

So Demanding Future Additions to be Realistic is Complete Nonsense lol.

 

 

56 minutes ago, fumtu said:

 

Gearing is ww2 era ship. It is basically just a somewhat longer version of Allen M Sumner class. It is designed and built during the ww2, 4 ships of the class even served in ww2. Major difference between Gearing and Allen M Sumner is range as Gearing class carrier more fuel. But basic design, and armament is the same.

 

Some Gearing Class Destroyers remained in Service till the 80s and were Upgraded quite alot Mate.

And Yes. Some were Finished and actually used in WW2. But thats just the Earliest of them lol.

By that Logic. Scharnhorst would be an Interwar Ship. Because it was actually done before WW2 :)

 

36 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

We have a significant Tier X population for two years. Nothing happened.

 

Officially. No.

But you Forget that WG is not always telling us when they Start working on something.

WG has a bit of a History of Denying things for quite a while you know.

Thats why you have to ask them Regularily. Because then sometimes you notice that a Flat out Denial suddenly becomes a Maybe or goes Unanswered.

Giving you a hint that they might actually be running Considerations or even Work on something.

 

23 minutes ago, dunbine said:

And what kind of battleships and cruisers we will see at tier 12?

 

Destroyers... Ok

 

Carriers... Ok

 

Cruisers...

With missiles?

With fantasy high caliber auto loading guns?

With anti air "machineguns" like the Smolensk?

 

Battleships?

What kind of battleships we could see?

An iowa with cruise missiles?

A sci fi upgraded Yamato with cruise missiles?

A sci fi russian battleship with stalinium armor and tesla guns?

 

While carriers and destroyers were developed after ww2, cruisers evolved in a different way, and no new battleships were planned

 

There you go Again with the Fantasy Stuff.

Sorry. But since when do Battleships get Sunk by 100mm Guns from an Anti Aircraft Escort Destroyer ?

Since when did Battleships only have a Range of 20km ?

Since when did Secondary Batteries of Battleships not Fire beyond 7km ?

Since when did Destroyers have the Ability to just be Invisible until they are 6km away from you ?

Since when could WW2 Ships Fire Accurately based on Aircraft or Allied Ship Spotting even when Sitting inside Smoke or behind an Island themselves ?

Since when did Torpedo Bulges Reduce Damage from Torps by a Percentage instead of Absorbing the Damage by Flooding the Bulge ?

Since when did Shells have a Damage Values and Ships have HP Values ?

Since when does a 128mm HE Shell cause a Fire inside the Ship when it Hits 400mm of Belt Armor ?

Since when are Naval Guns Controlled by some Guy sitting on a Computer which not just Magnifies the Image of his Target by 10-20x while Freely Zooming in and out. Which also is Capable of Accurately Adjusting Aim for all different Turrets and Barrels to Fire at the Same Target ?

Since when do you get a Full Life Map of the Battlefield during Naval Combat ?

 

This Game is a Complete Fantasy from the Start.

There is not a Single Ship in this Game that is Historical Accurate. And the Battles are about as Realistic of an Representation for Naval Combat as Team Fortress 2 is a Realistic Representation of Infantry Warfare lol.

 

 

 

13 minutes ago, rimmer_the said:

I'm interested what dialect of English capitalises almost every word....

 

None. Just my Personal Thing. If you dont like it. Dont read it.

[ColonelPete]

2 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

Officially. No.

But you Forget that WG is not always telling us when they Start working on something.

WG has a bit of a History of Denying things for quite a while you know.

Thats why you have to ask them Regularily. Because then sometimes you notice that a Flat out Denial suddenly becomes a Maybe or goes Unanswered.

Giving you a hint that they might actually be running Considerations or even Work on something.

I am not forgetting that, but you wanted an offcial answer.

WG will tell you differently, shortly before they introduce new Tiers.

[fumtu]

16 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

Some Gearing Class Destroyers remained in Service till the 80s and were Upgraded quite alot Mate.

 

So what? As far as I know they were still in their original form during Korea War. I am not talking here about FRAM modification which happened after Korean War.

 

Quote

And Yes. Some were Finished and actually used in WW2. But thats just the Earliest of them lol.

 

So they are ww2 era ships in the end.

 

Quote

By that Logic. Scharnhorst would be an Interwar Ship. Because it was actually done before WW2 :)

 

Well it is. Gearing was used in Vietnam and Falkland and probably some other conflicts. Should we considered it also a Falkland War era ship? Just because some ship was modernized it doesn't change their era of origin. Only 4 of them were laid down after the war ended and 62 out of 98 were launched during the war. They are ww2 era ships, just like Cleveland or Baltimore class cruisers or Iowa class BB even despite the fact that many of them were extensively modernized and served long after the ww2.