General Submarines related discussions

[Nibenay78]

So finally I tried ranked and what an unpleasant experience to run around facing a CV which one pretty much can barely shoot down planes from and submarine-abnormal-cell-growth.

The best moments where when the red subs "charged" (read: yoloed) and died asap so we didn't have to sail around waiting until the last camper runs out of battery (read: griefingjuice).

At least Perth has one - 1 - depth charge, which I think I used in 1 or 2 battles when the game was already won.

 

Insane boring.

 

Oh and before @Pikkozoikum comes with some blahblah. Please note mr. Pikko that I found it fun to ramble around in tier 6 actually, playing a ship I rarely play, nor is my complaint due to losing a lot:

 

[Deckeru_Maiku]

4 hours ago, VedranSeaWolf359 said:

Before subs we cry we want subs! why game don't have subs!, now we have subs now we cry remove subs! Please! it destroy the game!

 

So conclusion is we cannot be pleased!

Citation needed... please give proper sources for that claim. I can't recall a majority of the playerbase asking for implementation of subs into the game.

[lovelacebeer]

48 minutes ago, Deckeru_Maiku said:

Citation needed... please give proper sources for that claim. I can't recall a majority of the playerbase asking for implementation of subs into the game.

Very true there certainly is a dedicated group who want Submarines introduced at all costs. Still there has never been any indication it’s anything beyond that. 
 

As an example I remember when the author James Hornfisher died and WG posted their sympathies on Facebook several of the regulars felt it was appropriate to demand submarines even on that post. 

[Camperdown]

9 hours ago, Deckeru_Maiku said:

Citation needed... please give proper sources for that claim. I can't recall a majority of the playerbase asking for implementation of subs into the game.

If I remember correctly, when polls were done before the introduction of subs, about a quarter of this forum was for and three quarters against introduction of subs. For years we have had heated debates where those opposed quite correctly predicted what is wrong with subs now.

Aha, you may say, you are biased because you were opposed! No, I wasn't, I withheld my judgement because I wasn't sure. That's why I remember clearly, because at that moment I thought: wow, a LOT of people are opposed to this. I even thought they were BB mains who were afraid their toys would be spoilt.

Now the subs are here, I am opposed to them, because their implementation is absurd and they cannot be fixed in any reasonable way.

 

[togMOR]

Vor 4 Stunden, Camperdown sagte:

Now the subs are here, I am opposed to them, because their implementation is absurd and they cannot be fixed in any reasonable way.

One has to be careful with such kind of statement ... lines like this will inevitably summon Mr. Submarine himself who will slap you with a wall´o´text on how they and their mechanics are the most welcome addition to the game ;)

[Nibenay78]

4 minutes ago, togMOR said:

One has to be careful with such kind of statement ... lines like this will inevitably summon Mr. Submarine himself who will slap you with a wall´o´text on how they and their mechanics are the most welcome addition to the game ;)

Just like how CVs are well implemented and fun for everyone?

 

The homing is just crap. I can't think of any wargame where auto homing was a welcome addition.

[Deckeru_Maiku]

7 minutes ago, togMOR said:

One has to be careful with such kind of statement ... lines like this will inevitably summon Mr. Submarine himself who will slap you with a wall´o´text on how they and their mechanics are the most welcome addition to the game ;)

...and how perfectly they were implemented into another naval combat simulation, like Silent Hunter or another naval combat mmog (which otherwise seemed to have failed utterly it seems...) and use these examples as proof that they will of course will work superbly in WoWs, too... ignoring all facts showing differently.

[Pikkozoikum]

Hmm, I noticed something interesting, that homing makes torpedos actively miss.

 

Situation:

BB moves diagonal towards submarine. Submarine torps exactly on the lead indicator.

After a very late ping, the torpedos decided to give the BB even more lead, even though the BB was about to cut the lead

The torpedos did the exact opposite of what they should have done

 

The BB turned left (right from the viewers perspective), but the torpedos decided to give more lead, then the lead indicator would have calculated a hit

You can even see, how the torps are crossing my current lead indicator xD

 

To make it more clear

I aimed with the white lead indicator, but then insteand of following the indicator, after the ping, they did a turn to the left (green line). But the BB was actually doing a turn to the right (orange line)

[BLUB__BLUB]

5 hours ago, Nibenay78 said:

Just like how CVs are well implemented and fun for everyone?

They could be made much better, but the basic thing with CVs is that they are "in the air" and as such übermighty, as in real life.

As such, the problem will always be that ships shoot shells, and CVs launch planes... that shoot shells. 

 

5 hours ago, Nibenay78 said:

The homing is just crap. I can't think of any wargame where auto homing was a welcome addition.

Subs are "fixable" IMO but the homing has to go. At least they are in the water, same as ships.

In principle there should not be a problem making them balanced. Fun for everyone remains to be seen. 
Some people (like me) can't play DDs any good either (I am sort of potato up to T6 but after that... well...).

Doesn't mean I do not find them fun though, just more teammates hating me... 

[Puffin_]

It was fun playing against Submarines at T6 Played Battleship Arizona but mostly I played Destroyers T61 and Monaghan.

Had some rely good submarines captains on my teem in one ore two games. The Sub killed 4 enemies. Fine by me

I managed to kill few Subs. It was fun. I did not find it difficult to dodge most of the Sub torps.

CV's have far more influence on play style than Submarines when I am playing DD.

 

Now trying T8.  Playing Cosack No problem with Subs so far.

 

[Gvozdika]

23 hours ago, togMOR said:

One has to be careful with such kind of statement ... lines like this will inevitably summon Mr. Submarine himself who will slap you with a wall´o´text on how they and their mechanics are the most welcome addition to the game ;)

Ah dang it - too late. Would it be too much to hope and pray they suffer a prolonged internet outage so the forum is spared their unceasing, contradictory and clueless waffle? 

 

Anyone fancy a whip-round so we can restart Steel Ocean and return him/her to it's unique domain of awfulness? After all, it was such a brilliant game with subs that it is still going stro....oh hang on. Oh yes - it died didn't it!

 

Sorry - I keep forgetting how subs add sooooooo much to P v P games that they just so happen to kill off virtually every game they are added to. It is almost like balancing them is incredibly difficult (if not nigh impossible) unless the game is designed expressly for their use to begin with. Funny that isn't it?

[Pikkozoikum]

5 hours ago, Gvozdika said:

Anyone fancy a whip-round so we can restart Steel Ocean and return him/her to it's unique domain of awfulness? After all, it was such a brilliant game with subs that it is still going stro....oh hang on. Oh yes - it died didn't it!

Though the context of "having submarine" and that the game "died" is somehow not given. It didn't die because of submarines, rather of the quality (graphics), competition to WOWS, and pay2win prems.

I personally never started WOWS, but a friend did and said, CVs were to overpowered, but he wanted to try Steel Ocean, so I started with that game. Over time I checked some WOWS vids, and notices the much higher quality (graphics/sound) and tryed that as well.

[Puffin_]

21 hours ago, Puffin_ said:

It was fun playing against Submarines at T6 Played Battleship Arizona but mostly I played Destroyers T61 and Monaghan.

Had some rely good submarines captains on my teem in one ore two games. The Sub killed 4 enemies. Fine by me

I managed to kill few Subs. It was fun. I did not find it difficult to dodge most of the Sub torps.

CV's have far more influence on play style than Submarines when I am playing DD.

 

Now trying T8.  Playing Cosack No problem with Subs so far.

 

Yep found a big boring problem for me playing against Submarines.

None of my favorites Battleships at T8 has any weapons against Submarines.

That is BORING and FRUSTRATING

[Ajantise]

Problem is not the subs, it's the retarded HOMING TORPS.

Who ever tries to make you believe the discussion is about subs... He is working for the worst people in Wargaming.

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

Don't forget to push your local sub into battle at 33 knts kids :P

[SV_Kompresor]

Quote

We come to a new and very important stage of testing: Submarines participating in Random Battles in update 0.10.9.

We would also like to share why we want to have such a test. We know that being transparent about our plans and reasons for changes is a critical part of your overall feedback and we want to make sure that we can continue to build a long and close relationship with you.

The first reason is that Random Battles is the most popular battle type in the game. By adding Submarines there, we will be able to assess their condition and to receive feedback from the largest number of players to decide what the next steps should be.

The next point is the 12 vs 12 battle format. We have already tested Submarines in Ranked & Co-op battles, but the 12 vs 12 battle format changes the battle pace and its intensity significantly. Ultimately, while testing Submarines, battles will unfold completely differently, bringing new tactics, maneuvers, and many other changes.

 

Oh my fuqing god. I genuinely hope sub players in randoms get discriminated against so much (ie. reported and cussed at) that most snowflakes will just stop playing them.

[Capra76]

12 minutes ago, SV_Kompresor said:

 

Oh my fuqing god. I genuinely hope sub players in randoms get discriminated against so much (ie. reported and cussed at) that most snowflakes will just stop playing them.

 

This is going to be interesting.

[AndyHill]

WG development teams:

 

Test server stage 1: FAIL

Test server stage 2: FAIL

Test server stage 3: FAIL

Test server stage 4: FAIL

Coop / ranked stage: FAIL

 

"Ok, this looks very promising for randoms."

[Deckeru_Maiku]

1 hour ago, SV_Kompresor said:

 

Oh my fuqing god. I genuinely hope sub players in randoms get discriminated against so much (ie. reported and cussed at) that most snowflakes will just stop playing them.

Reporting and cussing at them didn't help against CV snowflakes a bit...

[Gvozdika]

15 minutes ago, Deckeru_Maiku said:

Reporting and cussing at them didn't help against CV snowflakes a bit...

It's like kicking your car and shouting at it when it doesn't start in the morning - no it doesn't help. It makes you feel better though....

 

(Then you discover some muppet had decided to pressure-wash the engine bay and find half a pint of water in the distributor - but that's another story).

[Shirakami_Kon]

11 hours ago, Europizza said:

Don't forget to push your local sub into battle at 33 knts kids :P

Some are actually counting on that.

 

 

They are absolutely ready to bring randoms to the ground. In fact playing co-op I already experienced frequently a sub running in my way and just stopping there and not getting out of the way or submerging, slowing me down and ruining my planned route to go just because it benefits them, so f**k you.

[Dutchy_2019]

Sorry,

 

Just had a game in Salem (Co-op).

 

The homing torpedos HAVE to go:

 

The claim that torpedoes will not curve within x-kilometers from the ship (allowing ships to dodge) CLEARLY does not work (they continue curving to the very end), and the 'get rid of PING' by using DCP is completely stupid, considering the cooldowns involved (and ubiquitous FireSpamming Meta).

 

I can tell you right now that of subs are dumped into the game like this, this will most likely lead to a whole lot of abuse of sub-players by frustrated non-surface ship players.

[geschlittert]

12 hours ago, SV_Kompresor said:

 

Oh my fuqing god. I genuinely hope sub players in randoms get discriminated against so much (ie. reported and cussed at) that most snowflakes will just stop playing them. 

it works with some CV players

[De_Zeeuwse_Admiraliteit]

Regarding homing torpedo’s and how to fix the current state of these torpedo’s

 

In the latest devblog WG basically admitted that the homing torpedo feature was met with a lot of criticism and negative feedback. No surprise really. They still want to push on and proceed with homing torpedo’s. Quite bizarre. If you insist on implementing them, at least try to adjust them to make them more feasible. Yes, there are many people who are against the idea of homing torpedo’s period. There are also a lot of people who don’t mind homing torpedo’s if implemented in a non-broken state. Here’s how.

 

Firstly add a second torpedo type to submarines. Non-homing torpedo’s. Simple as that. Now make sure that non-homing torpedo’s are incentivized to be used frequently.

 

-          High damage (15k – 20k per torpedo hit minus the torpedo protection areas)

-          Low torpedo detectability

-          Above average speed (65-70 knots)

-          High chance of flooding.

 

Homing torpedo’s can still be reliable in certain situations, the same way AP is reliable for HE spamming cruisers and DDs against broadside targets. In the case of submarines, the homing torpedo’s should be useful against more maneuverable targets. Characteristics of homing torpedo’s:

 

-          Low damage (in the range of 4-6k damage, instead of the current 7-8k)

-          Current Speed and torpedo detectability are fine, if the damage is reduced.

-          Significantly lower chance of flooding compared to non-homing torpedo’s.

 

There you have it. 2 Torpedo types that make sense and are both fun to be used (as a submariner) and to play against. Non-homing torpedo’s are harder to hit, but the reward is much higher. Homing torpedo’s are easy to hit, but the reward is low against targets that aren’t very maneuverable and have a high HP pool.

[Pikkozoikum]

1 hour ago, De_Zeeuwse_Admiraliteit said:

Regarding homing torpedo’s and how to fix the current state of these torpedo’s

 

In the latest devblog WG basically admitted that the homing torpedo feature was met with a lot of criticism and negative feedback. No surprise really. They still want to push on and proceed with homing torpedo’s. Quite bizarre. If you insist on implementing them, at least try to adjust them to make them more feasible. Yes, there are many people who are against the idea of homing torpedo’s period. There are also a lot of people who don’t mind homing torpedo’s if implemented in a non-broken state. Here’s how.

 

Firstly add a second torpedo type to submarines. Non-homing torpedo’s. Simple as that. Now make sure that non-homing torpedo’s are incentivized to be used frequently.

 

-          High damage (15k – 20k per torpedo hit minus the torpedo protection areas)

-          Low torpedo detectability

-          Above average speed (65-70 knots)

-          High chance of flooding.

 

Homing torpedo’s can still be reliable in certain situations, the same way AP is reliable for HE spamming cruisers and DDs against broadside targets. In the case of submarines, the homing torpedo’s should be useful against more maneuverable targets. Characteristics of homing torpedo’s:

 

-          Low damage (in the range of 4-6k damage, instead of the current 7-8k)

-          Current Speed and torpedo detectability are fine, if the damage is reduced.

-          Significantly lower chance of flooding compared to non-homing torpedo’s.

 

There you have it. 2 Torpedo types that make sense and are both fun to be used (as a submariner) and to play against. Non-homing torpedo’s are harder to hit, but the reward is much higher. Homing torpedo’s are easy to hit, but the reward is low against targets that aren’t very maneuverable and have a high HP pool.

Gave such kind of feedback a few times for having 2 types of torpedos