General Submarines related discussions

[Panzer_Guido]

subs are really fun to play against. sitting spotted 2 km from your ship and you cant do anything about them as it turns out the BB depth charge drop actually has a minimum distance. thats some good design.

[Edited by Moxyh; Please keep the discussion and opinions on-topic, no need to get personal towards other players.]

[SodaBubbles]

Hi WG! Can I get homing shells? How about homing depth charges?

[Raptor_Leader]

I personally find that the subs are currently quite good, with one exception, the increase in the consumption of the battery when you are detected 

 

- Firstly it makes absolutely NO SENSE, why being detected by an enemy will make us consume more battery than without being detected? Ships have EMP radars that destroy our electric batteries when spotted? It's completely stupid !

 

- And secondly, do you realize how fast the battery go away with this? When I take 4.00x battery consumption my battery drains faster than the glass of an alcollic.

 

Honestly this is the only black spot I find in submarines right now, please override this stupid mechanic of increasing battery consumption when detected 

[Panzer_Guido]

16 hours ago, Raptor_Leader said:

I personally find that the subs are currently quite good, with one exception, the increase in the consumption of the battery when you are detected 

 

- Firstly it makes absolutely NO SENSE, why being detected by an enemy will make us consume more battery than without being detected? Ships have EMP radars that destroy our electric batteries when spotted? It's completely stupid !

 

- And secondly, do you realize how fast the battery go away with this? When I take 4.00x battery consumption my battery drains faster than the glass of an alcollic.

 

Honestly this is the only black spot I find in submarines right now, please override this stupid mechanic of increasing battery consumption when detected 

makes sense. Subs are unbalanced anyway, so do away with this. 

[BanzaiPiluso]

The Mistery of the Missing Subaquatic Vessel. Invest almost 10 minutes of your life to find the lost enemy boat. RPF will not do neither Hydro. Only your deductive mental skills or enhanced hunting instintcs will help you!

 

 

 

 

 

 

[togMOR]

Vor 23 Stunden, Raptor_Leader sagte:

- Firstly it makes absolutely NO SENSE, why being detected by an enemy will make us consume more battery than without being detected?

Naturally, the subs crew becomes more stressed and nervous when detected by an enemy ship thus heart rate goes up and they even start sweating ... so the humidity inside the boat rises which in turn makes the aircon system run on higher capacity, consuming moar electric energy of course ... ;)

 

It is one of the strange mechanics with which the devs try to "balance" an unbalancable class into the game.

[Pikkozoikum]

4 hours ago, togMOR said:

It is one of the strange mechanics with which the devs try to "balance" an unbalancable class into the game.

Not like all the other realistic mechanics in this ship simulation :P
This game always went with pvp-balance instead of realism

[RossijskijAxisFlot]

Just put that awful class in the trash

[RossijskijAxisFlot]

Alle 15/9/2021 alle 20:09, Panzer_Guido ha scritto:

subs are really fun to play against. sitting spotted 2 km from your ship and you cant do anything about them as it turns out the BB depth charge drop actually has a minimum distance. thats some good design. I am also sure Pikko-Pro will educate me on how being killed off without any counterplay is balanced. (in his mind)

 

Edit: ah forgot, it was a 44%er that I would eat alive in any other class^^

nothing more to add 

[RossijskijAxisFlot]

Having so much fun in ranked you know... using DCP to not get immediatly blown up by subs and then get 2 perma fires. GREAT IDEA, don't wonder why BBs don't push anymore. I will research Slava and nuke people's broadsides from 20km, this way I can relax and enjoy. 

[Pikkozoikum]

2 minutes ago, AxisMarine said:

onder why BBs don't push anymore

Nothing to do with submarines, that was always the case, how this game works. Pushes a BB, then the BB will be focused by the enemy team, thus a BB won't push just to get farmed down.

But a BB has it quite easy against submarines imo, I would rate DDs in a higher threat as SS as a BB

[RossijskijAxisFlot]

1 minuto fa, Pikkozoikum ha scritto:

Nothing to do with submarines, that was always the case, how this game works. Pushes a BB, then the BB will be focused by the enemy team, thus a BB won't push just to get farmed down.

But a BB has it quite easy against submarines imo, I would rate DDs in a higher threat as SS as a BB

It was not my case, I always try to push when i see the opportunity. When subs will come to randoms, I won't even bother anymore.

[Pikkozoikum]

3 minutes ago, AxisMarine said:

It was not my case, I always try to push when i see the opportunity. When subs will come to randoms, I won't even bother anymore.

But that didn't really change, you can even push into a submarine, as long all the mechanics are considered. But mostly I wouldn't say, that a BB pushes into 1 DD, 2 cruisers and 1 BB or 2 BBs.

As you say, if you see the opportunity. The question is, is there a opportunity, if a DD is threatening you. I would say in most cases: no. But it can be quite easy to push into a submarine, if islands can be used etc.

Especially german BBs can be pretty annoying with the hydro

 

But such things always depend on the scenario and "opportunity". There will be cases, were you don't want push with a submarine around and cases, where you can push

[Camperdown]

2 hours ago, Pikkozoikum said:

Nothing to do with submarines, that was always the case, how this game works. Pushes a BB, then the BB will be focused by the enemy team, thus a BB won't push just to get farmed down.

But a BB has it quite easy against submarines imo, I would rate DDs in a higher threat as SS as a BB

Interestingly enough I also see BBs not push when they outnumber the enemy. So your explanation they get focused seems invalid.

I have a different hypothesis: a significant portion of the BB captains have little competence. They play BB because it is the most survivable class. But only if you camp. To push would require skill, which they lack. 

So: many BBs don't push in any situation, because they lack da skills for it.

[Pikkozoikum]

24 minutes ago, Camperdown said:

Interestingly enough I also see BBs not push when they outnumber the enemy. So your explanation they get focused seems invalid.

That's not an explanation for that. If I play Shimakaze and never use torpedos and only Canons, then that is not an explanation for being a gun boat with no torps ;)

If people don't push, because of the game design for being focused by many doesn't mean, only because someone is not pushing, when outnumbering, makes it invalid.

 

It's more like that A) Someone doesn't take the opportunity for a push or B) has more map awareness and knows something, that makes a push too risky

 

28 minutes ago, Camperdown said:

I have a different hypothesis: a significant portion of the BB captains have little competence.

I would say, you have a lot bad to average player overall in this game and in all classes.

 

29 minutes ago, Camperdown said:

To push would require skill, which they lack. 

So: many BBs don't push in any situation, because they lack da skills for it.

Sure, that can be a reason, why some don't push, if there is a opportunity for a push. But it firstly requires that opportunity, which is mostly only given in mid-late game or if team seperation and map design allows it.

 

But by default game design, a pushing BB will be farmed. Just remember the secondary ships, not just lately, also over all the years. They think "I need to use my secondaries", then they push and die.

[BLUB__BLUB]

On 9/18/2021 at 5:43 PM, togMOR said:

Naturally, the subs crew becomes more stressed and nervous when detected by an enemy ship thus heart rate goes up and they even start sweating ... so the humidity inside the boat rises which in turn makes the aircon system run on higher capacity, consuming moar electric energy of course ... ;)

LOL.

 

On 9/18/2021 at 5:43 PM, togMOR said:

It is one of the strange mechanics with which the devs try to "balance" an unbalancable class into the game.

I think it is definitely possible to find a balance, however if started with crap mechanics then you end up with crap balance.

 AKA stuff that is dumb can never be made smarter, and so on. Some BS mechanics need to go. 

And yes that includes this one, and homing torpedoes. 

 

[NAFO_Merlin68]

First i would say take those subs out of CO-OP or at least never give the BOT side one cuz they are  major game staler. Just hiding at the bottom behind a rock and comes up at the end.
Second NEVER implement the subs to clan, brawl or or as now ranked again. Totaly useless ships, use it for convoy thats all.
 

 

[BLUB__BLUB]

8 minutes ago, Merlin68 said:

First i would say take those subs out of CO-OP or at least never give the BOT side one cuz they are  major game staler. Just hiding at the bottom behind a rock and comes up at the end.
Second NEVER implement the subs to clan, brawl or or as now ranked again. Totaly useless ships, use it for convoy thats all.

But, you know as well as I do, they will do it anyway. We even have 2 CVs in CB now.

I hope they make them good, but there is always other games if they do not. 

[Camperdown]

1 hour ago, Pikkozoikum said:

That's not an explanation for that. If I play Shimakaze and never use torpedos and only Canons, then that is not an explanation for being a gun boat with no torps ;)

If people don't push, because of the game design for being focused by many doesn't mean, only because someone is not pushing, when outnumbering, makes it invalid.

 

It's more like that A) Someone doesn't take the opportunity for a push or B) has more map awareness and knows something, that makes a push too risky

 

I would say, you have a lot bad to average player overall in this game and in all classes.

 

Sure, that can be a reason, why some don't push, if there is a opportunity for a push. But it firstly requires that opportunity, which is mostly only given in mid-late game or if team seperation and map design allows it.

 

But by default game design, a pushing BB will be farmed. Just remember the secondary ships, not just lately, also over all the years. They think "I need to use my secondaries", then they push and die.

The responses to your posts will improve if you don't scream: no you are WRONG in all your responses 

[Pikkozoikum]

8 minutes ago, Camperdown said:

The responses to your posts will improve if you don't scream: no you are WRONG in all your responses 

Eh, you said, my explanation was invalid? Also where did I "scream" "WRONG"?

 

I just explained, how the basic gameplay is designed, you said "it's wrong", because you have seen passive players.

I say, that you have seen that doesn't exclude, what I said, doesn't make it invalid.

 

 

[Camperdown]

6 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

Eh, you said, my explanation was invalid? Also where did I "scream" "WRONG"?

 

I just explained, how the basic gameplay is designed, you said "it's wrong", because you have seen passive players.

I say, that you have seen that doesn't exclude, what I said, doesn't make it invalid.

 

 

So, I am wrong again? 

[Pikkozoikum]

2 minutes ago, Camperdown said:

So, I am wrong again? 

When you say, that someones explanation seems invalid, then you don't expect, that someone starts discussing and explaining that further?

I don't get the point...

 

 

[Camperdown]

4 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

When you say, that someones explanation seems invalid, then you don't expect, that someone starts discussing and explaining that further?

I don't get the point...

 

 

Sorry, I am teasing you a bit.

 

I have just noticed that you are involved in quite long discussions on this forum. Next I see your reply to my post starts with: That's not an explanation for that. So I thought: if you start your responses like that, I am not surprised your discussions are that long. Perhaps if you look a bit more to what you can agree with rather than what you find wrong with others, you might find a conclusion to your discussions a bit sooner 

 

No offense meant. GL HF

[Pikkozoikum]

16 minutes ago, Camperdown said:

Sorry, I am teasing you a bit.

 

I have just noticed that you are involved in quite long discussions on this forum. Next I see your reply to my post starts with: That's not an explanation for that. So I thought: if you start your responses like that, I am not surprised your discussions are that long. Perhaps if you look a bit more to what you can agree with rather than what you find wrong with others, you might find a conclusion to your discussions a bit sooner 

 

No offense meant. GL HF

But you engaged me with the "it seems invalid" :P

 

Also when I say, "throwing stones against a window is not that good idea, because windows break easily." And you would say "that comment seems invalid, because I saw stones not breaking windows", wouldn't you say something similar in my position? That this is not an explanation for against my statement? ^^

[Hugh_Ruka]

I have played my T10 DDs in coop for the SCs and while there goofed around with the depth charges.

 

There are different patterns to DDs how they deploy DCs. Some of the patterns are vastly more effective than others ... This disparity needs to go ....