General Submarines related discussions

[Pikkozoikum]

3 minutes ago, mtm78 said:

Pathetic. 

The truth? o_O

Imagine DDs can't "stealth fire" Torpedos. I wouldn't mind it.

 

It's also super weird, if someone would expect, that submarines don't stealth attack. xD

[Admiral_H_Nelson]

On 8/25/2021 at 5:05 PM, BLUB__BLUB said:

How about this, just blue/darker blue.

Great idea! I have taken the liberty of adding a depth key.

 

[General_Alexus]

1 hour ago, Axilian_1 said:

Suggestion 

 

Allow BB spotter planes and fighter planes (and CV planes if required) to be able to spot subs if just below the surface  (i.e. not at 40m)  and also have the range of detectability  alter with the depth of the subs (sub at 20m would have a smaller detectability that say at periscope depth)   - this would help a lot with having to chase down the remaining subs at the end of a co-op match 

Already in the Game, maybe play subs yourself before posting in the forums.

[mtm78]

On 8/31/2021 at 11:52 AM, Pikkozoikum said:

You are claiming, not proofing, so it's mostly a try of you to discredit me.

If someone writes, that we get "now" stealth fires, because Submarines can launch unspotted torpedos, how is that true? Torpedos were always stealth fired.

 

Then proof, that we have now stealth fire torpedos, but not before submarines.

 

 

Subs are like stealth fire because it's making you dependent on others in your team.

 

My BB can kill a DD, sure DD is at advantage but I CAN KILL THEM.

My CA can kill a BB, sure BB is at advantage but I CAN KILL THEM.

My DD can kill a CA/CL, sure CA/CL is at advantage but I CAN KILL THEM.

( cv's have no place in this discussion as they already break class interaction and are loathed because of NOT OFFERING COUNTERPLAY ).

 

@Sub_Octavian told me stealth fire is toxic because I could damage others who can't damage me. That's the EXACT SAME as having to deal with submarines in a ship without ASW.

 

PERIOD. NO DISCUSSION FURTHER POSSIBLE. STOP MENTIONING: ow but not all ships have radar... IT"S NOT THE SAME, RADAR DOES NO DAMAGE IT ONLY NEGATES A CONCEALMENT DISADVANTAGE.

 

Ofc, this is written knowingly full well you will pretend to not understand and write a wall of text with irrelevant DRIVEL. Or you will show you understand, and then dismiss it as just being an opinion. Which it is not. 

 

IT IS A FACT. PERIOD.

[Pikkozoikum]

On 8/31/2021 at 12:02 PM, mtm78 said:

 

Subs are like stealth fire because it's making you dependent on others in your team.

 

My BB can kill a DD, sure DD is at advantage but I CAN KILL THEM.

My CA can kill a BB, sure BB is at advantage but I CAN KILL THEM.

My DD can kill a CA/CL, sure CA/CL is at advantage but I CAN KILL THEM.

( cv's have no place in this discussion as they already break class interaction and are loathed because of NOT OFFERING COUNTERPLAY ).

 

@Sub_Octavian told me stealth fire is toxic because I could damage others who can't damage me. That's the EXACT SAME as having to deal with submarines in a ship without ASW.

 

PERIOD. NO DISCUSSION FURTHER POSSIBLE. STOP MENTIONING: ow but not all ships have radar... IT"S NOT THE SAME, RADAR DOES NO DAMAGE IT ONLY NEGATES A CONCEALMENT DISADVANTAGE.

 

Ofc, this is written knowingly full well you will pretend to not understand and write a wall of text with irrelevant DRIVEL. Or you will show you understand, and then dismiss it as just being an opinion. Which it is not. 

 

IT IS A FACT. PERIOD.

You totally don't get the point.

 

I said, that torpedos are always "stealth fire" (if concealment/torpedo range fits).

What you are talking about, has nothing to do with my statement.

 

 

Here is the quote:

On 8/31/2021 at 10:48 AM, Pikkozoikum said:

On 8/31/2021 at 7:58 AM, Gudgeon said:

Submarines are just the "Stealth Firing" of 2021. You removed stealth firing in 2017, but this class has brought it back. GG and well played. Stealth firing was deemed broken in 2017, but you have introduced a class whose main mode of operation is stealth firing. Removing stealth firing seemed like a good idea at the time for the developer, so why is it now deemed acceptable?

Torpedos never caused a "gun bloom"?

 

Torpedos don't create a gun bloom. Thus, if a ship can stay hidden, it can "stealth fire" the torpedos.
Thus the statement "Submarines are just the stealth firing of 2021" is quite weird. Because Torpedos have nothing to do with the "stealth fire" case of guns and shells.

 

You shouldn't blame others for "not understanding", when you didn't understand the initial statement.

 

Is that your logic?
SS -> Stealth fire

DD -> No stealth fire?

 

Do you know what stealth fire is? just wondering

 

[Capra76]

5 hours ago, Gudgeon said:

They are being played in ranked, so the spreadsheet will say "Success!". A proportion of the player base has just destroyed the game they like to play. Still, they mainly sail broadside and activate damage control on one fire, so it is not a surprise.

 

They're not really being played in ranked though, often it's one per game and that one is me so I don't know how many zero sub games there are, the players that are playing are doing so for the novelty only.

 

Overall, for me, they feel boring to play and low impact on the game outcome, I think players will admire the graphics for a bit then move onto something else very quickly.

 

 

3 hours ago, Europizza said:

This yes. The mademoisail and Ev1n stream was pretty clear about that lol. They stated that if people play game modes with submarines in it the subs are apparently acceptable, and because of that ready to implement. I'm pretty sure most at Lesta are tired with the stupid things after 2 years of failing to make them even remotely interesting. They will again settle for boring but who cares at this point, much like the carriers. Lestas upper management and design team combo is incapable in designing anything remotely fun and I'm pretty sure, looking at their omissions in the subs after 2 years, incapable of compelling pvp gameplay design in general by now. So sad, the game used to have such potential years ago. The game we have now only gets pathetic gameplay features added.

 

The problem I see is that after 2 years of investment they're not going to accept 0.5 subs per game, which is where I think they're heading at the moment, thus I can see them being buffed substantially before release to appeal to the brain dead players who are happy to sacrifice gameplay for the ability to trash other players games.

 

40 knot subs with handling that makes USN DD look lazy launching 100 knot homing torpedoes with nuclear warheads coming to a game near you, soon.

[Pikkozoikum]

3 hours ago, Axilian_1 said:

Suggestion 

 

Allow BB spotter planes and fighter planes (and CV planes if required) to be able to spot subs if just below the surface  (i.e. not at 40m)  and also have the range of detectability  alter with the depth of the subs (sub at 20m would have a smaller detectability that say at periscope depth)   - this would help a lot with having to chase down the remaining subs at the end of a co-op match 

The air detection of submarines is somewhere around 2.1km and 2.5km. Don't quote me on exact numbers. But submarines can be spotted by air from surface down to operating depth. Only the maxium depth grants 0km concealment

Most aircrafts can spot, the exceptions are Dutch Bombers and ASW-planes, those don't spot

CV-planes, fighters, catapult-fighter, spotter can spot a submarine.

 

And the funny thing is, the spotter plane actually works quite good. Normally you have ships with larger concealment than air concealment, thus a spotter plane won't spot a ship, before the vessel itself is in spotting range

 

But in case of a submerged Submarine, the spotter plane can grant additional spottin range, because the concealment and air concealment are same.

 

For surface ships, it's often a difference, and the air concealment is also often so good, that the spotter won't spot a ship sooner, than the own vessel will spot it (Don't mind, that I picked DD, DD is actually a bad example)

But for submarines, when they dive, they have ship and air concealment on the same distance. That means, a spotter planes, that is closer than the own ship, will spot the submarine.

Actually it was also mentioned, that Spotter planes engage submarines for spotting, but I think they removed that mechanic (or never implemented)

[garfield06061991]

Can someone tell me if the ranked subs will be removed before the season ends? It sucks to play ranked with submarines

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Gvozdika]

Let it go man - save the keyboard wear for someone who can understand it. He is well known on the forum so most regulars will be able to see the inaccuracies as when they are wheeled out. Like another certain regular suspect their usual form is to goad, contradict and infuriate others until they get a negative response. They then gleefully run to the mods and warnings/bans are deployed. Stick them on ignore, carry on with your life and rock on.

I

 

On topic - I have completed a few experiments with subs vs players. It takes a T8 sub approx 4 minutes to transit from one side of the map to the other. at least two of those minutes must be done at max depth to give immunity to detection (short of bumping into another sub) That allows 4-6 minutes of dive time to ....entertain the enemy CV.

 

No pings required (indeed - they don't work and they only give your position away) - just sit at periscope depth around 2.5km away and dump torps into him. You need two full salvos to finish a T8 carrier but in a German sub this takes around 50s to reload all the forward tubes.

 

Is it a constructive use of subs for the benefit of your team? No. Not really.

 

Is it incredibly funny to smack a CV player for half their health with them being able to do nothing about jt? Yes. Yes it is. Irony is great.

 

When two ill-fitting coddled classes collide - who will win?

 

[mtm78]

On 8/31/2021 at 2:17 PM, Gvozdika said:

Let it go man - save the keyboard wear for someone who can understand it. He is well known on the forum so most regulars will be able to see the inaccuracies as when they are wheeled out. Like another certain regular suspect their usual form is to goad, contradict and infuriate others until they get a negative response. They then gleefully run to the mods and warnings/bans are deployed. Stick them on ignore, carry on with your life and rock on.

 

Removed*

 

Ignoring him is useless since he's the most proliferant defender of all things broken in this game, understandably because he wants Steel Ocean with better graphics, and more so, there are so many 'uninformed' people around here there is a chance a few might actually take that guy serious. If nothing else he will posts wall of irrelevant drivel and claim he's the one giving arguments, well knowing they are entirely irrelevant to the point at hand. 

 

His behavior consist of flamebaiting and there was a time when this was an actual offense. 

 

As to warnings and bans, I know I am fully aware I'm close to getting a read only status because of my engagement with him but you know what, if they ( mods ) think I'm the one at fault there is nothing lost with that. Not for them, and certainly not for me.

 

Besides some responses from Chrysantos, there isn't anything important going on here, and god forbid if Sub_Octavian ever would decide to do a Q&A here it will be so far in the future my warnings would have expired anyway. 

[Shirakami_Kon]

6 hours ago, Europizza said:

This yes. The mademoisail and Ev1n stream was pretty clear about that lol. They stated that if people play game modes with submarines in it the subs are apparently acceptable, and because of that ready to implement.

 

Just how the [edited]do they get these conclusions? So they force submarines and they are like "hmm... not every player is literally leaving the game, must mean they are happy with submarines".

 

No, that's not how it works you utter dumbasses, it only means there are people that somehow still keep expectations that you'll realize after more that two years of testing that submarines don't fit the game no matter what you do about them and still want to play the game, so of course they play modes with submarines in them, because you guys [edited]forced them on us. THAT DOESN'T MEAN THE PLAYERBASE THINKS THEY ARE ACCEPTABLE AT ALL, ffs.

 

I just can't with these people anymore... Their disconnection to the game is beyond words. Stop pretending you have any idea what players want or that you know what you're doing with the game...

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

It's simple. Notice how everyone at WG is pointing to other mysterious sources where they get input how well things are received? It's the spreadsheet of statistical data they get from sales, server data and user data. Statistical data is funny in a way that you can filter it in a specific way and reach conclusions that confirm pre set goals. So my guess is that WG is not only bad at designing gameplay, but also pretty bad at interpreting data unbiased ^^

[lovelacebeer]

7 minutes ago, SHDRKN4792 said:

 

Just how the [edited]do they get these conclusions? So they force submarines and they are like "hmm... not every player is literally leaving the game, must mean they are happy with submarines".

 

No, that's not how it works you utter dumbasses, it only means there are people that somehow still keep expectations that you'll realize after more that two years of testing that submarines don't fit the game no matter what you do about them and still want to play the game, so of course they play modes with submarines in them, because you guys [edited]forced them on us. THAT DOESN'T MEAN THE PLAYERBASE THINKS THEY ARE ACCEPTABLE AT ALL, ffs.

 

I just can't with these people anymore... Their disconnection to the game is beyond words. Stop pretending you have any idea what players want or that you know what you're doing with the game...

I totally agree with you but in WG’s logic unless they do something that actually makes people stop playing in large number then it’s considered a success.

 

I guess they are confident that even if subs are unpopular most people will meekly submit to WGs will, the sad thing is they are probably right.

[Shirakami_Kon]

Well, at this point I really want they add submarines quickly to randoms, get them in the most played mode, maybe the monumental backlash when that happens and no one has anywhere to avoid them will make them understand that they need to scrap the whole concept of submarines once and for all. Seems like it's the only way their "data" will show them the facts.

[Capra76]

3 hours ago, garfield06061991 said:

Can someone tell me if the ranked subs will be removed before the season ends? It sucks to play ranked with submarines

 

The whole point of the ranked season is to test subs so no, they will not be removed.

 

In fact I would not be surprised if they received buffs at some point in the season.

[Camperdown]

1 hour ago, Europizza said:

It's simple. Notice how everyone at WG is pointing to other mysterious sources where they get input how well things are received? It's the spreadsheet of statistical data they get from sales, server data and user data. Statistical data is funny in a way that you can filter it in a specific way and reach conclusions that confirm pre set goals. So my guess is that WG is not only bad at designing gameplay, but also pretty bad at interpreting data unbiased ^^

At a previous employer of mine this was called: torture the data till they confess 

[Gvozdika]

19 minutes ago, Capra76 said:

 

The whole point of the ranked season is to test subs so no, they will not be removed.

 

In fact I would not be surprised if they received buffs at some point in the season.

Unfortunately you may be on the money and I really hope you're wrong! When you come across a sub player who has used them before in previous testing and/or spent time learning how to use them to their potential - utter carnage ensues. The concealment, spotting and ability to snipe stuff in one semi-invisible/invincible package is just a combination asking to be abused to a game-breaking degree. 

 

HOWEVER

 

Most players in subs don't seem to know what they're doing. They can't seem to even move around without sticking onto islands or trying to gun duel a BB at 2 km on the surface.... thus the results will likely look rather poor overall. Since WG have made it plain that they intend for subs to work NO. MATTER. THE. COST..... we can probably expect no end of buffs, further broken gimmicks and concessions. Similar to a certain other class with a considerable skill-ceiling but ludicrously easy to do damage with if you have more than one functioning brain cell.... you know - that one that begins in C and ends in V? 

 

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

1 hour ago, SHDRKN4792 said:

Well, at this point I really want they add submarines quickly to randoms, get them in the most played mode, maybe the monumental backlash when that happens and no one has anywhere to avoid them will make them understand that they need to scrap the whole concept of submarines once and for all. Seems like it's the only way their "data" will show them the facts.

Sadly carrier rework happened. All that has changed is that they will make their current mistake in slow motion 

[Aethervoxx]

3 hours ago, Gvozdika said:

Is it incredibly funny to smack a CV player for half their health with them being able to do nothing about jt? Yes. Yes it is. Irony is great.

 

I very much like your comments Gvozdika, as I like El2aZeR comments. You both tell it like it is & with great humour sometimes, as well.

I'm planning to try to do exactly what you suggest - sink these reworked CVs with a Sub (as much as possible). The irony, as you point out, is great. 

[The_Gathering]

WG better save the non-submarine iteration of their game, just in case...

 

I have no desire to play WOWS anymore at all, when/if subs are introduced into randoms. None whatsoever.

[Gvozdika]

4 hours ago, Aethervoxx said:

I very much like your comments Gvozdika, as I like El2aZeR comments. You both tell it like it is & with great humour sometimes, as well.

I'm planning to try to do exactly what you suggest - sink these reworked CVs with a Sub (as much as possible). The irony, as you point out, is great. 

Fight the good fight my friend! 

[BLUB__BLUB]

2 hours ago, Gvozdika said:

Fight the good fight my friend! 

I'll sink subs with a CV, maybe that will help... 

[nX79]

On 10/22/2020 at 5:41 PM, YabbaCoe said:

good luck in Submarine Battles!

And THIS says it all. WoWs is becoming a casino game for the addicted as the audience is large enough nowadays.

 

Good luck with your “game development“ 

[nX79]

14 hours ago, Capra76 said:

I think players will admire the graphics for a bit then move onto something else very quickly.

I really hope so. I'd even pay for that, but wouldn't bet a penny on it.

 

The WG casino will tune the dice for sure. Gambling must go on, on all tables in the casino.

[YabbaCoe]

Commanders!

 

I decided to rename this thread in the same way, as we have a General discussion thread for CV.

Mostly because originally this thread was for TST, while it has been used for General Submarine discussions for some time already.

Thanks for understanding