General Submarines related discussions

[General_Alexus]

33 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

Maximum depth is good for avoiding DCs, since they have more distance to sink. Especially T10s have high speed submerged.

But Maxium depth can be used to attack as well without getting spotted.

 

On Maximum depth the concealment goes down to 0 km and even the 4km pinging concealment goes down to 0km

Though the submarine is blind, but it can use hydro.

 

That means, when an enemy is around 3-4km, and you don't want get discovered,  because you are pinging, then you go down to maximum depth and activate hydro and ping from there.

 

But it's a bit harder to perform with Hydro-spotting

Thats why I am waiting for the PvP test, we simply dont know how "low-skill-boring-mimimi" the class is before testing it against real players who dont just simply sail in a strait like towards you.

[Pikkozoikum]

17 hours ago, Gnomus said:

I'm talking about ability.

It's a tactic, when you explain your gameplay in a specific scenario. We were talking about counter-measurements like Radar, ASW, not how to deal with an enemy, when this is not available. Aside that, there are tactics to deal with a submarine as well, if no counter measurements are available.

 

17 hours ago, Gnomus said:

Guns and torpedoes sink ships. They work against any ships class.

Radar and hydro are good thing to spot some enemies and can help your guns and torpedoes to harm enemy ship. Yet those consumables alone do nothing and they are not needed to do the damage.

Radar does no dmg, but it's still the same relation.

 

Ship gets a counter measurement to deal with specific encounters.

Radar ships get radar to deal with hidden enemies in range (DDs).

ASW ships get ASW armament to deal with submerged submarines.

 

 

17 hours ago, Gnomus said:

Everyone can harm anyone. Some times it is harder, sometimes easier, but it is always there. If opponent want to use range or camo to avoid counter fire he must do so from distance, so weakening his firepower and allowing target more ways to avoid damage.

That's were we have to understand, that the given ability doesn't mean, that its likely in a relevant way.

That a BB will hit a never(rarely) spotted DD is so unlikely, that you could say, that this won't happen ever.

Such a DD is technically immune to those shells.

 

Other wise, I'm free to go to the training room with you, you play BB and I play DD, and you try to hit me.

 

If it's only about to have the ability to hit, no matter if it makes sense or not, then we could give everyone DCs with 1 dmg.

The ability would be given, but it would be as much relevant, as it will be for guns to hit a DD without intel

 

17 hours ago, Gnomus said:

Against subs this is no longer the case if ship doesn't have ASW weapons. How can a BB without ASW weapons push sub from cap? It can't. It can't even ram. It can't force sub out of position, it can just eat torpedoes until it gets sunk or subs dive capacity ends. 

1. Why does it matter to push a submarine away from the cap? It will be hit-able by guns or submerged, then it doesn't cap.

2. Deplete the DivCap and take the cap.

3. On close range, it won't be able to get the torpedos homing. Also the DivCap will be ~2x faster depeleted, if the sub is spotted.

4. Maneuver to the side of the sub

 

17 hours ago, Gnomus said:

Or take a German BB with hydro. Excellent against subs because it can see them below surface? Sure, except seeing means nothing when that BB has no ability to do anything to the subs.

Depletes the DivCap faster.

 

 

17 hours ago, Gnomus said:

Question is not about consumables. 

Question is about basic principle of any ship being able to harm other (even if it might be difficult).

You mean impossible in a common sense way.

 

 

18 hours ago, Gnomus said:

You can try this out (hopefully in coop) battles. Try to play your CA or BB so that you only spot, or lets allow using secondary guns. Then see how well you can do against enemies when they can go for optimal firing solution and tear you to pieces while you spot and hope someone else will sunk them.

 

Ship that can't harm near by subs is dead very fast, unless he brings friends. And we know how well these "play together" things work on random battles. They do not. Even taking caps won't work when sub can throw homing missiles at you on short intervals. 

And what will you do as BB, when a DD is around you? Shooting randomly around? It's almost the same encounter, the DD will also torp the BB and don't tell me, that you always win against DDs in your BB and dodge always all the torps ;P

 

I actually shot already submarines with the main guns, even players. I played all the test rounds, PTS, live Event-Test,  TST and coop-test

 

18 hours ago, Gnomus said:

Some ships have specific mechanism. Those mechanism augment their basic systems. Every ships still needs guns and/or torpedoes to harm other ships. Any ships will take damage from guns and torpedoes. Every ships can harm any other ship. That is not "specific mechanism". That is basic principal of the game.

And yet you can hit Submarines with torpedos and guns.

 

18 hours ago, Gnomus said:

This far all defenses have been "soft". Ship in smoke can be harmed. Un seen ship can be hunted and forced out of area. Even carrier can be sunk either by catching it or shooting from long range if someone else spots it.

 

Now subs are getting "hard" cover where certain ships can't do anything to them for long period of times while subs can freely damage them. This is the problem.

The result is the same. A Dd that is completly hidden won't be hit. Nobody even would waste shells, it will cause a reload with 0 dmg.

The big difference is, that you are able to waste your shells by a potentially hit, that will never happen in 100,000 cases

I mean, you can also play lottery and hope for the big jackpot ;)

Though I could assume, that the chance is even lower than that.

 

The difference is something that is impossible, and something that is so close to impossible, that everyone with common sense will say "it's impossible"

The result is, both can't be harmed

 

I see no reason here, why this is an argument for ASW for all ships.

18 hours ago, Gnomus said:

Still every ship should be able to harm subs. Some might have better options with lot of high damage depth charges, some have only few smaller ones, some might call in ASW planes, but every ships need to have some way of fighting back. 

Everyone can harm subs with guns. It just needs to deplete their DivCap

 

Imagine everyone gets ASW. Now you have 2 bbs and one heavy crusier. Sub gets spotted. Everyone launches ASW, sub dead.

Submarines would be unplayable. Or you nerf all the ASW planes, and then you will complain, that a single BB can't kill a submarine. ;)

 

 

18 hours ago, Gnomus said:

Or would you like some "specific mechanism" where DD could push a button, and then be invulnerable to torpedo damage for 5 minutes? See how much fun that would be for subs. After all sub "could spot for others or go for caps". That would be totally broken. Some BB/CA being unable to do anything to subs underwater is totally broken same way.

It's the same fun, when a DD uses 40-50 knots to stay hidden and drop torpedos for 5 minutes. That's the point. Not every ship should get hard counters

 

The spotting ability of subs is weaker than the spotting as surface ships. As soon a submarine goes to periscope depth, all ship will get better concealment values (air concealment is also submarine concealment)

 

18 hours ago, Gnomus said:

If that DD hit the W and is never seen again, then he needs to launch his unguided torps from 6 km away. Then he can be forced out of caps or other important positions. His ability to influence battle is highly reduced.

No, influence is not reduced, that's the playstyle of DDs. That's how they play. They stay in their positions, where they are effective. 

And you say, that unguided torpedos are something bad. They have advantages over the homing.

-Way more max dmg

-Don't need to hit citadell for max dmg

-Can't be trolled by guiding into islands

-Can't be countered by using DCP (not talking about flooding)

-Pinging also shows the direction of the torps, even if not in spotting range

 

Those unguided torpedos work pretty fine ;)

 

Also most subs won't go for the cap, if it's not safe... I played a lot submarine, and being close can be so easily a death sentence. You just lose so foas the DivCap and torping the enemy is also not that easy, since you can only launch forward (or backward).

 

Submarines are not that flexible, that's a big weakness of these boats.

 

 

18 hours ago, Gnomus said:

If you wan't "specific mechanism" then give BB ability to totally ignore damage from submarines torpedoes. For example for 5 minutes at the time. Why not?

That makes no sense, what you say :P

 

18 hours ago, Gnomus said:

If your defense for sub is that it doesn't do much damage, when BB is doing everything it can to reduce danger from sub.  Why not give all BB some depth charges. Sure it won't obliterate sub as well as dedicated ASW DD, but then it could do some damage.

Why not giving all ships Radar? Lets give everyone coutners to counters :3

 

As I said, if there is the case, were one ship is in an disadvantage, then you can't argue, that it should get counters... When I play my Shikishima, and the enemies got a DD and I'm now alone, then there is no way, that I can deal with that by the consumables/armament I have. The only way is, that the enemy is stupid and plays bad.

That has nothing to do with the ship, but with the player. And that also happens with submarines, that they missplay.

 

18 hours ago, Gnomus said:

Why it is so bad that ships that currently are "totally incapable" would be "inefficient and ineffective"? Because subs has to have that 5-10 minutes they can fail as much as they like (as long as they stay underwater) and still do some damage against enemies while themselves are totally safe? 

Why can submarines fail as much as they like? That's new to me.

 

Said it earlier, giving all ships ASW would lead to 2 things

-Subs are instant death all the time as soon they get spotted for 1s (DCs cover a big area, using planes is quite easy, especially when there are 3-5 ships with that)

-DCs will be nerfed, to encounter the issue of mass-ASW, single ships will be very bad against SS, because many ships have too easy times to kill a sub

 

18 hours ago, Gnomus said:

This I already explained. DD loses effectiveness or endangers itself. It can be forced out from important area, like caps. It might not get sunk, but it loses much of it's relevance. Even in smoke it can be forced out of blind fired. DD's opponent can dictate (some) terms of battle. 

no, mostly it doesn't lose effectiveness, because that's the strength of a DD. Fast speed, good concealment -> Moves close to a BB ~7-8 km and drops the torps in suprise.

Did you never do that to a BB in a DD?

Firing into a smoke can work, but if the DD never showed up...

 

18 hours ago, Gnomus said:

Sub on the other hand can just keep farming, and do it from good position. It's target can't do anything. At least anything else than run, and that is so fun from sub that can go 30+ knots and have homing missiles with 12+ km range.

You exaggerate. They don't keep farming from good position. They are slow and inflexible with relative short range. It's quite easy to play around it. But of course, it will happen, that a submarine will be in a good position to kill someone. Like any other ship will do that as well.

 

And you say  that like the 30 knots and 10-14km range is much ^^

Subs are slow vehicles in this games. DDs are faster, Cruisers are faster, and even some BBs are faster.

 

What are you doing against a DD with 40+knots and/or 16km range?

And btw, homing torpeods, that have to adjust the coruse, loses max distance

 

 

18 hours ago, Gnomus said:

I have gone carrier hunting, and get sunk by secondarier. I felt stupid, but it was earned, as any ships has to be able to harm others. And I'm not even mean secondary specced Graf, that annihilates anyhting in range. 

 

I have sailed on Izumo (before several buffs) and lost all 3 main turrets permanently while still having half my hitpoints. Yet I didn't feel useless because I still managed to go in secondaries blazing helping my team (but we won by points before I managed to ram enemy BB). 

 

All ships need to be able to harm others. It might be difficult, it might be "inefficient and ineffective", but it must be there. 

As I said, what if a DD is not spotted for minutes and does a surprise attack from a flank? There is no way to harm him.with guns

 

But I also said, okay, add DCs that do 1 dmg ;)

That's more dmg, then against a completly undiscovered DD

 

 

 

[Pikkozoikum]

54 minutes ago, General_Alexus said:

Thats why I am waiting for the PvP test, we simply dont know how "low-skill-boring-mimimi" the class is before testing it against real players who dont just simply sail in a strait like towards you.

Yes, though a real good result will we only get after weeks. Because there are many players, who won't be informed, how to play against or with that

 

 

[VenividiviciNL]

Maybe it has already been mentioned in one of current 41 (!) pages of posts, but so far 3 things annoys me:

 

1) why should we as DD player have to buy a module to decrease ASW reload speed and/or increase number of depth charges, whereas DD's already have a lot to do?

2) NL light cruisers have no ASW capabilities....weird. This means we are a sitting duck versus submarines!

 

Last but not least, when a battle is at its end and a submarine is still alive, but submerged, it is hardly to be found. Meaning an endless chase on an invisible enemy for the remaining duration of the game. What a game changer!

 

No, further adjustments to submarines must be made in order to have them playable ingame if desired by the majority of the playerbase.

[lovelacebeer]

They still need to give all surface ships ASW capabilities, it’s fine to have variety in performance of said ASW. However to have no ASW beyond waiting for dive time to expire and then be able to shoot a sub is preposterous and a sign of just how poorly this project is thought out. 

[General_Alexus]

1 hour ago, VenividiviciNL said:

 

 

Last but not least, when a battle is at its end and a submarine is still alive, but submerged, it is hardly to be found. Meaning an endless chase on an invisible enemy for the remaining duration of the game. What a game changer!

You never had the situation of a DD running around to the corner or a BB surfing the redline at the end of the game?

You just ignore the bugger and go cap, they have to come to you if they want to win. At the end of the game Battery will be depleated as well, subs cant cap when submerged.

In case the enemy holds the caps or has a massive point lead: sucks to be you, but it seems like your team didnt play the objective, (maybe) saved alot of hitpoints for it but ultimatly deserves to loose. Running away when you have 2 minutes on the clock but a massive point lead is a valid taktic and should not be discurraged by gamemechanics, as this would discurrage playing objectives early on.

[RamboCras]

Please remove from COOP, games take ages to finish. Last game we were sailing around with 6 ships trying to find it when it was on a rock on the outside, near C cap. So it was not capping, not moving, basically inactive.

[BLUB__BLUB]

4 hours ago, General_Alexus said:

I would not scrap the homing capability, we have realy low damage homing torps, if we scrap homing, we would need to buff the damage to the extent that subs are just realy bad DDs.

...but they are. Bad DDs with mega-stealth. That is sort of what they were, too. Scouts-in-ambush. Like large MTBs (the coastal torpedoboats) but different. 

 

Also, low damage doesn't mean you cannot get flooding. And THAT causes a lot of damage. 

Imagine: a homing-torp is coming towards my BB. So, the BB should hit DCP (oh brilliant multi-purpose button...). Then, it hits, but it doesn't give flooding. 

Meanwhile that sub keeps BB spotted and his buddies set 3 fires. Well, lol as the BB just used DCP. So yes I'd rather have torps that do more damage. 

10K or 15K would not be out of the ordinary. But they already made them faster, too. High risk vs high reward goes down the drain. Another DoT spammer?

 

4 hours ago, General_Alexus said:

But I agree, as DW torps as a concept is already in the game it actually makes sense that torps lauchned from underwater should behave like this.

Yes IMO it does make more sense, and it also adds an element of risk. If a sub sits at the surface or periscope depth, at least then he might be rushed. 

[mtm78]

45 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

10K or 15K would not be out of the ordinary. But they already made them faster, too.

 

46 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

..but they are. Bad DDs with mega-stealth. That is sort of what they were, too. Scouts-in-ambush. Like large MTBs (the coastal torpedoboats) but different. 

 

Yup. Which is why WG is ... for shoehorning them into the game. 

 

I might reinstall just to ignore them in my DD's, it's not like I actually already have a game to play without having to hunt submarines for people in their battleships. 

[BLUB__BLUB]

1 minute ago, mtm78 said:

Yup. Which is why WG is ... for shoehorning them into the game. 

If you take a DD as a starting-point, wouldn;t be too much trouble, could even be good. 

What it is, is an "extreme DD" in the sense of being extremely stealthy. And having not many torps, no speed, and no HP.

So, it must be a "high risk-high reward" thing and that could be the excitement of it, and the balance.

If they try to make it "easy to play low risk low damage" then yeah it is gonna be booooooring. 

 

1 minute ago, mtm78 said:

I might reinstall just to ignore them in my DD's, it's not like I actually already have a game to play without having to hunt submarines for people in their battleships. 

I think they are rather fun, needs some work but could actually be a good thing. 

But there is also the possibility that they screw it up pretty badly. 

[Corocotta15]

As I dont care about stadistics, when I go in a battle with subs, I will put maximum speed to my ship, shot a couple times and after I will quit that battle. 

 

Sorry for my teammates, but could be a constructive critic too.

[Xevious_Red]

2 minutes ago, mtm78 said:

 

 

Yup. Which is why WG is ... for shoehorning them into the game. 

 

I might reinstall just to ignore them in my DD's, it's not like I actually already have a game to play without having to hunt submarines for people in their battleships. 

From what Ive played with/against them they're rather a side note. Their torps arent immensely long ranged. At tier X 11km and 14km isnt exactly across the map.

 

At pericope/surface level they can be caught by radar/planes pretty easily. Since they need to be nose in theres not a huge gap between out of range for ping and being in radar range. Subs take splash damage from shells landing near them until they get down deep enough. The base plane shift (transitioning from one level to another) for a tier X is around 20 seconds. This can be brought fown to around 8-9 seconds with equipment, but it means they dont dive instantly  and can eat a nice smack of shells if they get caught. At periscope their surface detection is very low, but it chews into dive capacity.

 

Their spotting distance is less. So if you have a sub with 6km detection on the surface vs a DD with 6km detection, the DD will spot the sub first. I believe its 20% (was in pts) so the sub only spots the DD at 4.km

 

At operating depth the sub ignores shells. It cant spot for itself though, it needs team mates to do the spotting. It can be spotted  y hydro, a ship sailing overhead, or planes. Being spotted eats the dive capacity at double speed. It gets no torp lead indicator,  has to use homing torps, and the torps need some room to climb to a viable depth. A sub at this depth is reachable by depth charges, asw planes, or by other subs.

 

At max depth the sub is "invisible". It cant see surface ships, and its minimap doesnt update with enemy positions. At best it can use hydrophone to see aroynd it a bit  but thats limited. It can be found by oyher subs using hydrophone.

 

DD dont need to dedicate that much time to sub hunting - frequently its a free kill as you pass over it. Theres a reasonable ammount of other ASW stuff, and your team has a sub as well who can kill a submerged sub

[mtm78]

You spend a wall of text I'm not even going to read. The whole sub discussion was had years ago and nothing changed, they should not be in the game unless restricted in scenario mode's. It's the main reason I have this game no longer installed, and if I were to reinstall while these abominations are in the game, I will actively ignore them like WG ignores player feedback and that's FINE since WG doesn't do anything about people 'not playing objectives' anyway so why should they have an issue with DD players ignoring what WG wants and play how the game should be played. 

[mtm78]

48 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

If you take a DD as a starting-point, wouldn;t be too much trouble, could even be good. 

What it is, is an "extreme DD" in the sense of being extremely stealthy. And having not many torps, no speed, and no HP.

So, it must be a "high risk-high reward" thing and that could be the excitement of it, and the balance.

If they try to make it "easy to play low risk low damage" then yeah it is gonna be booooooring. 

 

I think they are rather fun, needs some work but could actually be a good thing. 

But there is also the possibility that they screw it up pretty badly. 

Huh....

 

No, actually submarine gameplay SHOULD be boring. Because that's how they operated, SLOWLY TEDIOUSLY AMBUSHING AND THEN AVOIDING CONTACT. 

 

Not this bull WG is trying to make people believe.

 

There is already high risk high reward ships in the game, they are called destroyers. 

[CptBarney]

8 minutes ago, mtm78 said:

Huh....

 

No, actually submarine gameplay SHOULD be boring. Because that's how they operated, SLOWLY TEDIOUSLY AMBUSHING AND THEN AVOIDING CONTACT. 

 

Not this bull WG is trying to make people believe.

 

There is already high risk high reward ships in the game, they are called destroyers. 

Ahh youur bak! Welcome to the gates of hell! *very loud gunfire in the distance*

 

As you can see *points to angry forumites and CC's leading the charge* things have gone absolutely mental, thanks to peegee being peegee.

 

Oh well, at least you came back to memes, rage (rightfully so) and miscommunications.

[BLUB__BLUB]

1 hour ago, mtm78 said:

Huh....

 

No, actually submarine gameplay SHOULD be boring. Because that's how they operated, SLOWLY TEDIOUSLY AMBUSHING AND THEN AVOIDING CONTACT. 

 

Not this bull WG is trying to make people believe.

Well, normally surface ships were also tedious as hell... it took them days to hunt down Graf Spee, for example.

 

 

1 hour ago, mtm78 said:

There is already high risk high reward ships in the game, they are called destroyers. 

True. But we also get "more high risk" of those. Apparently, some work. 

Lots of torps + AA.... or mega-speed... but no smoke. And a lot f these survive a game.

Maybe there is a market for even riskier ones. 

[mtm78]

Just now, BLUB__BLUB said:

Well, normally surface ships were also tedious as hell... it took them days to hunt down Graf Spee, for example.

 

Yeah we already have a healthy time compression in the game, just check the after battle report for the distance you moved. The issue though is that all classes somewhat actually match relatively in performance. You know we actually had a lot of people in the game earlier who cared about immersion and who would complain if their historical ship would be not as fast as another historical ship or even if when a certain visual was not entirely correct for the named ship and so on. Now we moved to a game where gameplay will have no reflection at all at actual naval engagements during WWII because WG wants to sell more premiums and as such needed another class to shoehorn into the game. 

 

In short, I don't mind the time compression since it's applied universally... well it was at least. This is the main reason I lost interest when I knew the direction they would be going. 

 

Just now, BLUB__BLUB said:

True. But we also get "more high risk" of those. Apparently, some work. 

Lots of torps + AA.... or mega-speed... but no smoke. And a lot f these survive a game.

Maybe there is a market for even riskier ones. 

 

No  not for me at least. I'll happily engulf myself with fictional units and options/weapons, the universe is called Battletech and there are many games in it both strategy and shooters. The reason I was drawn to WoWs was the amount of books and movies I enjoyed as a kid depicting naval battles from the age of sail to WWII, I wanted that immersion and it's no longer there. 

[ForlornSailor]

2 hours ago, mtm78 said:

The reason I was drawn to WoWs was the amount of books and movies I enjoyed as a kid depicting naval battles from the age of sail to WWII, I wanted that immersion and it's no longer there.  

Just quoting that for the truth... and to say: long time no see!

[Aethervoxx]

I've been dabbling with the Subs in co-op battles and I have finally taken a look at the Sub Cpt skills.

It is my opinion there are too many conditional ones, eg : if A happens you get a B bonus.

I suggest these bonuses just be a bonus with no condition at all.

 Also, the highlighted skills by WG developers are rather odd. As Subs die easily why would anyone use AR (adrenaline rush) for example?

I note there's barely any torpedo Cpt skill improvements yet Sub torpedoes are, essentially, the only weapon they have (the pea shooter deck gun, if present, does not count).

 Just my doubloon coin worth comment.

[Pikkozoikum]

1 minute ago, Aethervoxx said:

I've been dabbling with the subs in co-op battles and I have finally taken a look at the Sub Cpt skills.

It is my opinion there are too many conditional ones, eg : if A happens you get a B bonus.

I suggest these bonuses just be a bonus with no condition at all.

Technically it's weird to have so many conditions, but on the otherhand, maybe they want the submarine designed around, that hey don't need flat skills and rather play around these conditions.

 

2 minutes ago, Aethervoxx said:

Also, the highlighted skills by WG developers are rather odd. As Subs die easily why would anyone use AR (adrenaline rush) for example?

Technically, when an BB drops early or ind midgame some ASW stuff on a submarine, they it could be usefull, but personally I didn't like it much on submarines.

 

3 minutes ago, Aethervoxx said:

I note there's barely any torpedo Cpt skill improvements yet Sub torpedoes are, essentially, the only weapon they have (the pea shooter deck gun, if present, does not count).

There are no concealment skills as well, in they rely on concealment, but I actually like it, that there are no concealment skills, because everyone would take those always. And that would be bad, a must-have skill is boring

Maybe it's really better to have so many conditional skills, it's harder to figure out, if there are must-have skills, or maybe there are none

[Aethervoxx]

14 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

There are no concealment skills as well,

Thanks for mentioning this, Pikkozoikum, I had forgotten this (it's kind of so obvious maybe that's why I didn't mention it, lol).

There are some must have skills for each class as it is,  so stealth bonuses (or, at least, one) would be a perfect fit for a Sub.

Stealth IS the skill Subs need.

[Westie77]

So far I have really enjoyed the Submarines and can’t wait for them to be in game properly. And my only major complaint is at the moment having to log in daily to see if I have won the opportunity to rent a Submarine to try. I wish I could just get on and try it. Because after trying for a few days I managed to get a 3 day rental but I am not available to play two of those days so I only got to try it for one day. But as for the gameplay these are my thoughts. 
1. There seems to be a very short window of pinging your target and setting off your torpedoes before you have closed you target and you are to close for another salvo which means you need to open from your target and turn in again. But the Subs seem to have a really slow and large turning circle. 
2. Which leads to the other issue that once close an enemy Submarine target and you are manoeuvring around each other you can’t actually open the target up enough to ping and fire another salvo with enough range to allow your torpedoes to lock on. 
3. Due to how slow the Submarines are by the time you have closed your targets and fired your salvos and manoeuvre to come around again the targets have already been wiped out by the surface fleet. 
4. The torpedoes don’t seem to damage the ships enough for the amount of hits you get but I also understand to keep it balanced they can’t take massive HP from a target on salvo otherwise it would be a nightmare for surface ships. So to even that out the reload for torpedoes could be just a few seconds quicker.  
5. The air charge seems to be balanced enough so no issues there. 
6. If I could change anything it would be the turning speed and circle. 
7. The depth change speed is good. However it could do with a snorkel depth were you could sit and maybe not recharge but at least not lose anymore air. I mean to keep it kind of realistic you should be able to air charge at snorkel depth but I also understand that would be unfair and difficult for the surface ships to try to see a sub snorkelling at distance. So a happy medium would be you won’t lose air at snorkel but you can’t recharge. Unless that is already a mechanic that I am missing. It doesn’t seem to be. 
8. I also think it’s good you can’t capture a flag whilst dived. 
9. I also think it’s good the mechanic that CVs can sometimes block your pings and negate those pings otherwise they would be sitting ducks. 
10. Maybe a crash dive option would be good so you could dive super quick automatically at one button press. Same for emergency blow. 
other than this I think the Submarines are great and I can’t wait till they are fully in game. 

[Pikkozoikum]

9 hours ago, Aethervoxx said:

Thanks for mentioning this, Pikkozoikum, I had forgotten this (it's kind of so obvious maybe that's why I didn't mention it, lol).

There are some must have skills for each class as it is,  so stealth bonuses (or, at least, one) would be a perfect fit for a Sub.

Stealth IS the skill Subs need.

Yes, but that's why it's good, that there are no concealment skills, because everyone would take it. There would be less variety and i think with these conditional skills, it weakens all the available skills.
That makes them less important and thus people can skill with more different builds.

 

I actually like these skills, because on the one hand, the effects are very strong. But on the other hand, while the effect is strong, the skill itself is not too strong because of the conditions.

 

We don't get these weird 3% more dmg skills. I really don't like such skills. Also must-have skills are boring. I personally think, that there should be many different viable skill builds. I like it, when they changed that in World of Warcraft with the talents. There were some must-have talents, but also some talents where really personal preference.

[Pikkozoikum]

6 hours ago, Westie77 said:

1. There seems to be a very short window of pinging your target and setting off your torpedoes before you have closed you target and you are to close for another salvo which means you need to open from your target and turn in again. But the Subs seem to have a really slow and large turning circle. 
2. Which leads to the other issue that once close an enemy Submarine target and you are manoeuvring around each other you can’t actually open the target up enough to ping and fire another salvo with enough range to allow your torpedoes to lock on. 

It's better to be not too close. Above 4km, so the sub stay hidden and torpedos will home. Too close and the torps won't home

 

6 hours ago, Westie77 said:

4. The torpedoes don’t seem to damage the ships enough for the amount of hits you get but I also understand to keep it balanced they can’t take massive HP from a target on salvo otherwise it would be a nightmare for surface ships. So to even that out the reload for torpedoes could be just a few seconds quicker.  

When you hit the citadel with a double ping active, they do huge dmg ^^

I think max dmg against BBs with all cit hits will be around ~70k

 

6 hours ago, Westie77 said:

10. Maybe a crash dive option would be good so you could dive super quick automatically at one button press. Same for emergency blow. 
other than this I think the Submarines are great and I can’t wait till they are fully in game. 

Technically the USN Submarines have rash dive as consumable. It increases the dive speed

And emergency blow mechanic is in the game. When you are at 0 Dive Capacity, the Emergency blow mechanic actives and you wil have 20s, until the submarine automatically surfaces.

This timer reduces every time you are forced to use the emergency blow

20s -> 10s -> 5s -> 0s

 

[arcticstorm123]

So, just had this happen, ok so it's early 8:50am CET but 5 dd's, 2 subs, 1BB, and a CV, one of the most boring games ever, but can't say I blame people, cruisers may have depth charges but they aren't nearly as nimble as dd's where subs are concerned.

I am regrinding Haragumo (again) so subs had not a lot to do with my choice (although they did factor in the choice), subs are certainly affecting the choices people are making, limit dd's and I think you will see non sub areas get an improvement in popularity 

 

I have played all the subs and they are good to play but there's no escaping that they will affect game ship balance negatively, I think in a way that even cv's did not