General Submarines related discussions

[El2aZeR]

20 hours ago, Barney_Wobba said:

I think some of you need to play subs to see it's not as easy as you think.

 

Subs mechanically speaking have by far the lowest skill floor out of all classes currently. It is extremely easy to find excessive success in them if you don't fall into the noob traps that WG has implemented.

And yes, I have played subs. Quite a lot in fact.

[BLUB__BLUB]

5 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

And yes, I have played subs. Quite a lot in fact.

Death above the waves and under the waves, oh Masterrrr 

[plain_average]

Subs are just disgusting how they are implemented in this game. It is really as simple as that. Many ships have 0 realistic defense - similar to CV.

 

[MixuS]

On 3/9/2023 at 4:26 PM, Barney_Wobba said:

I think some of you need to play subs to see it's not as easy as you think.

It doesn't matter how easy or hard subs are to play if only counterplay for almost all other ships is to run away.

[Aethervoxx]

20 hours ago, ItsEyeJasper said:

they should just bring back RTS cvs because they have just reintroduced the same problem and if they cant see that then they are idiots. 

 

My sentiment, exactly .

[Swordfish967]

Alle 22/10/2020 alle 17:41, YabbaCoe ha scritto:

Commanders!

 

We would like to ask you to share your personal experience and feedback from Submarine Battles on TST server in this particular thread!

 

Please edit your messages, stay only on feedback and don't debate here. If you would like to debate about submarines, please do so in other threads.

Posts, that won't follow these rules will be hidden. 

 

Thanks for understanding and good luck in Submarine Battles!

 

 

sorry, maybe I'm not in the right forum topic but, I couldn't find anything else about what I have to ask.
I would like to ask you why a submarine on the surface attacked by depth charges takes damage. Depth bombs operate or rather explode at a certain depth. Why don't the same bombs damage ships? The bomb understands, yes this is a submarine, no this is a ship.
This boat was condemned before being put into service. I don't understand why you worked so hard on it.
Please can I have a technical answer why do surface submarines suffer damage from depth charges?

[Schelfie]

2 hours ago, Swordfish967 said:

sorry, maybe I'm not in the right forum topic but, I couldn't find anything else about what I have to ask.
I would like to ask you why a submarine on the surface attacked by depth charges takes damage. Depth bombs operate or rather explode at a certain depth. Why don't the same bombs damage ships? The bomb understands, yes this is a submarine, no this is a ship.
This boat was condemned before being put into service. I don't understand why you worked so hard on it.
Please can I have a technical answer why do surface submarines suffer damage from depth charges?

Don't forget visa versa. Submerged subs shouldn't suffer damage from HE/AP shells.

 

Just remove the damn things and everybody's happy again...

[Bland_42]

Out of curiosity, anyone know if WG projected to introduce italian and french subs?

[GuydeLusignan]

17 hours ago, Swordfish967 said:

.
Please can I have a technical answer why do surface submarines suffer damage from depth charges?

The deep is not important. Depth charges will detonate ALWAYS exactly at the deep of a sub. Say "hello" to game mechanics. Surface, max. deep... Not imposant for them.

 

15 hours ago, Schelfie said:

Don't forget visa versa. Submerged subs shouldn't suffer damage from HE/AP shells.

Same effect like depth charges. The shockwave makes the damage. And again: hello game mechanics

15 hours ago, Schelfie said:

 

Just remove the damn things and everybody's happy again...

Will not happen.

[Schelfie]

10 minutes ago, GuydeLusignan said:

Same effect like depth charges. The shockwave makes the damage. And again: hello game mechanics

When a bullet, shell,... hits water, it looses every momentum it has. Shells will sink to the bottom of the sea, not fly.

 

And the'll explode on impact, not timers, so in real life they wont explode and won't create a shockwave to damage the sub.

 

 

10 minutes ago, GuydeLusignan said:

Will not happen.

A man can dream...

 

[GuydeLusignan]

30 minutes ago, Schelfie said:

When a bullet, shell,... hits water, it looses every momentum it has. Shells will sink to the bottom of the sea, not fly.

 

And the'll explode on impact, not timers, so in real life they wont explode and won't create a shockwave to damage the sub.

 

 

in this game, it is a detomnation and a shockwave^^

tahst why i said :game mechanics

[Bear__Necessities]

On 3/9/2023 at 3:18 PM, Barney_Wobba said:

Look how OP these subs are!? I thought I'd have a load of matches to see what they are like, so you don't have to:
 

 

What's you playing subs badly got to do with anything? 

[Captain_Lootbox]

Is there a counter to subs when they have other ships to support them or is it a case of running awy from them?

[747BeerDrop]

11 hours ago, Captain_Lootbox said:

Is there a counter to subs when they have other ships to support them or is it a case of running awy from them?

 

This is a typical sub(en)counter (re)action:

 

[Captain_Lootbox]

On 3/8/2023 at 7:36 AM, tsounts said:

WG acting like politicians of the worst kind...
 

 

and yet here we are.  Shower of money grabbing rats.

[tsounts]

On 3/16/2023 at 11:00 AM, Captain_Lootbox said:

and yet here we are.  Shower of money grabbing rats.

Yeah, at least it's not the chieftain's fault! :)

[Swordfish967]

Alle 11/3/2023 alle 18:01, Schelfie ha scritto:

Don't forget visa versa. Submerged subs shouldn't suffer damage from HE/AP shells.

 

Just remove the damn things and everybody's happy again...

Yes, at this point I agree with you. because putting into service a boat that was born to navigate underwater that cannot stay underwater, is damaged even by sea waves not to mention all these mountains, the time of a reversal has finished the battery.
they'd better delete it

[Swordfish967]

it would be better to remove the woWs

[Swordfish967]

Alle 12/3/2023 alle 02:32, Bland_42 ha scritto:

Out of curiosity, anyone know if WG projected to introduce italian and french subs?

well if they are like these in service better not

[Bland_42]

3 ore fa, Swordfish967 ha scritto:

well if they are like these in service better not

I think the same, my question was really simple curiosity.

I would love to see realistic subs (if the problem would be low xp earning, WG could simply add a xp multiplier for the class)... but the current implementation is really unactractive for me.

[Dutchy_2019]

2 hours ago, Bland_42 said:

I think the same, my question was really simple curiosity.

I would love to see realistic subs (if the problem would be low xp earning, WG could simply add a xp multiplier for the class)... but the current implementation is really unactractive for me.

WG already HAS given them a serious XP multiplier. Making subs more ‘realistic’ would mean that the vast majority of sub players would be completely incapable of handling the, meaning they would not be played or the players are at best worthless, at worst a serious detriment to their team. On the rare occasion that you would run into a good sub player, that player would just utterly dominate his section of the map. It would be a full return to the RTS CV problems, far more than is already happening now.

[Bland_42]

42 minuti fa, Dutchy_2019 ha scritto:

WG already HAS given them a serious XP multiplier. Making subs more ‘realistic’ would mean that the vast majority of sub players would be completely incapable of handling the, meaning they would not be played or the players are at best worthless, at worst a serious detriment to their team. On the rare occasion that you would run into a good sub player, that player would just utterly dominate his section of the map. It would be a full return to the RTS CV problems, far more than is already happening now.

I wasn't around in RTS times, don't know what were the problems... sorry.

However, while I can understand what would happen with the major number of players with "realistic" subs and that would be a big "NO" for/from WG, I still would prefer that kind of implementation than the current one, because now the interactions with other classes are a mess (diplomatically speaking).

 

IMO obviously.

 

 

 

EDIT: I think that half of the sub problems would be solved with a spotting rework, like CV problems... something that WG refuse to do (for what we currently know).

[Dutchy_2019]

5 hours ago, Bland_42 said:

I wasn't around in RTS times, don't know what were the problems... sorry.

However, while I can understand what would happen with the major number of players with "realistic" subs and that would be a big "NO" for/from WG, I still would prefer that kind of implementation than the current one, because now the interactions with other classes are a mess (diplomatically speaking).

 

IMO obviously.

 

 

 

EDIT: I think that half of the sub problems would be solved with a spotting rework, like CV problems... something that WG refuse to do (for what we currently know).

 

I was not around for RTS days either, but from what I have gathered, the basic reality was that the team that had the best CV player was pretty much guaranteed to win the game. To the point where when you saw some names showing up with a CV on the enemy team it hardly mattered if you actually played the match or not.

[Viridem]

Well I got myself the I-56, as it came out today, and this has been a horrible experience.

(I got plenty of doubloons from ranked etc I'm not using, so in a way I got it for free).

 

I haven't played subs since the halloween event, years ago.

 

Sailing the ship isn't particularly pleasant. I mean, it's not bad, but there's nothing particularly interesting.

The diving/surfacing aspect could have used more work. When you're inbetween surface and periscope depth, you can't see the ship at all, which can scew up with sailing and dodging stuff.

When surfaced, your camera is very close to the ship, with a "flat" angle to the sea. It makes spotting enemy subs' pings hard. It doesn't help with staying aware of everyone's position, since your camera is so far up your stern.

We were sold fantastic underwater environments. I haven't seen anything interesting down there. Did they really spend tons of time making things look good there? Because if so, it was quite a waste...

 

Tons of HP, although that hp didn't last long once I started getting attacked.

7.1km concealment when surfaced, 2.6km when at periscope depth. DDs and especially subs are quite tricky to counter.

Well, you can shotgun DDs with no problem, even without homing torps.

 

You have "short" duration batteries, only 2 minutes, but they reload super fast. Using the consumable that extends your battery duration, you can stay quite some time under water.

 

The torpedoes are great. Good damage, good range, great speed, 35 seconds reload. There isn't much a BB can do if you manage to catch one without support. He's gonna die, and that's all.

I didn't test the homing torpedoes. They only have 6km range, and besides, I have some humanity left in me. I'm not gonna use homing torpedoes...

 

The main gun is a nice touch. It feels like a regular ship, in a way. Forget about fighting subs with that: it's gonna dive. It can be very useful to sink DDs though. Very very useful.

At medium range the shells have a long flight time and start getting hard to land.

 

One considerable issue is that the ship doesn't have access to submarine surveillance, that consumable that is basically a submarine radar.

You have hydrophone, that gives you map spotting for surface ship and submarines at persicope depth or surfaced (and said ships get a gray outline on your screen), but it's short, teamates will generally ignore the submarine you detect this way (since it's map-only), and it's only really useful in combination with homing torpedoes.

Without sub surveillance, if a submarine is below periscope depth, you can't do anything. Even if it's right next to you. It's completely stupid. The opponent however can spot you with that, get all its teamate to attack you, ping you and land torps on you with ease. Good luck figuring where he is exactly, as you have even less indications of the ping's origin than on the surface.

A tier VI sub can hard-counter you with that. Fantastic design.

 

It's worse than radar. You generally know where a radar ship is, you can see where the shells are coming from, you can dodge.

None of that applies here: it can be super hard to know if you are in range of the submarine, or even if it's in the same area as you, you can't really see where crap is coming from, and good luck dodging.

 

What I mean is: if you think fighting a sub while in a surface ship is bad, doing so in I-56 is even worse. You have absolutely no weapon. None. Almost all of my deaths were because of a sub using its submarine surveillance. If you see that a submarine is on the same flank as you, leave.

Subs are cancer, in many many ways.

 

Because of all of this, any agression can get punished hard. I only had success by playing passive, and finding an opportunity to get in a good position and totally wreck BBs.

Once you get in that position however, you feel absolutely dirty. You have the second highest torpedo DPM, behind Salmon...

I mean, it's nice to destroy ships like that, but with this ship it feels absolutely unfair. I feel bad for the opponent: he did nothing wrong, and gets punished for it.

I'm playing WITH the reds, not against them :( I don't want to grief...

 

 

In short: ship is boring to play, the good moments in it make you feel like a bad person, fighting submarines in it is the most dreadful thing ever.

The good thing is that at least your opponents won't have to dodge a thousand homing torpedoes.

 

I'll probably get a few more games jsut to be sure (and try to salvage these horrible stats I got), and then shelve the ship for good.

We knew submarine were a horrible addition to the game, but oh boy I didn't expect things to be that bad. Horrible game design through and through.

 

 

Garbage.

[SmegTheNoob]

7 hours ago, Viridem said:

Well I got myself the I-56, as it came out today, and this has been a horrible experience.

(I got plenty of doubloons from ranked etc I'm not using, so in a way I got it for free).

 

I haven't played subs since the halloween event, years ago.

 

Sailing the ship isn't particularly pleasant. I mean, it's not bad, but there's nothing particularly interesting.

The diving/surfacing aspect could have used more work. When you're inbetween surface and periscope depth, you can't see the ship at all, which can scew up with sailing and dodging stuff.

When surfaced, your camera is very close to the ship, with a "flat" angle to the sea. It makes spotting enemy subs' pings hard. It doesn't help with staying aware of everyone's position, since your camera is so far up your stern.

We were sold fantastic underwater environments. I haven't seen anything interesting down there. Did they really spend tons of time making things look good there? Because if so, it was quite a waste...

 

Tons of HP, although that hp didn't last long once I started getting attacked.

7.1km concealment when surfaced, 2.6km when at periscope depth. DDs and especially subs are quite tricky to counter.

Well, you can shotgun DDs with no problem, even without homing torps.

 

You have "short" duration batteries, only 2 minutes, but they reload super fast. Using the consumable that extends your battery duration, you can stay quite some time under water.

 

The torpedoes are great. Good damage, good range, great speed, 35 seconds reload. There isn't much a BB can do if you manage to catch one without support. He's gonna die, and that's all.

I didn't test the homing torpedoes. They only have 6km range, and besides, I have some humanity left in me. I'm not gonna use homing torpedoes...

 

The main gun is a nice touch. It feels like a regular ship, in a way. Forget about fighting subs with that: it's gonna dive. It can be very useful to sink DDs though. Very very useful.

At medium range the shells have a long flight time and start getting hard to land.

 

One considerable issue is that the ship doesn't have access to submarine surveillance, that consumable that is basically a submarine radar.

You have hydrophone, that gives you map spotting for surface ship and submarines at persicope depth or surfaced (and said ships get a gray outline on your screen), but it's short, teamates will generally ignore the submarine you detect this way (since it's map-only), and it's only really useful in combination with homing torpedoes.

Without sub surveillance, if a submarine is below periscope depth, you can't do anything. Even if it's right next to you. It's completely stupid. The opponent however can spot you with that, get all its teamate to attack you, ping you and land torps on you with ease. Good luck figuring where he is exactly, as you have even less indications of the ping's origin than on the surface.

A tier VI sub can hard-counter you with that. Fantastic design.

 

It's worse than radar. You generally know where a radar ship is, you can see where the shells are coming from, you can dodge.

None of that applies here: it can be super hard to know if you are in range of the submarine, or even if it's in the same area as you, you can't really see where crap is coming from, and good luck dodging.

 

What I mean is: if you think fighting a sub while in a surface ship is bad, doing so in I-56 is even worse. You have absolutely no weapon. None. Almost all of my deaths were because of a sub using its submarine surveillance. If you see that a submarine is on the same flank as you, leave.

Subs are cancer, in many many ways.

 

Because of all of this, any agression can get punished hard. I only had success by playing passive, and finding an opportunity to get in a good position and totally wreck BBs.

Once you get in that position however, you feel absolutely dirty. You have the second highest torpedo DPM, behind Salmon...

I mean, it's nice to destroy ships like that, but with this ship it feels absolutely unfair. I feel bad for the opponent: he did nothing wrong, and gets punished for it.

I'm playing WITH the reds, not against them :( I don't want to grief...

 

 

In short: ship is boring to play, the good moments in it make you feel like a bad person, fighting submarines in it is the most dreadful thing ever.

The good thing is that at least your opponents won't have to dodge a thousand homing torpedoes.

 

I'll probably get a few more games jsut to be sure (and try to salvage these horrible stats I got), and then shelve the ship for good.

We knew submarine were a horrible addition to the game, but oh boy I didn't expect things to be that bad. Horrible game design through and through.

 

 

Garbage.

I find it really funny that Wargaming claim that Submarine Shotgunning is not a regular thing.

Yet they put out this monstrosity of a Submarine, who's whole idea with homing torpedoes is to shotgun other ships.

 

This is from the Wiki entry:

Quote

Homing Torpedoes

I-56’s homing torpedoes allow for short range torpedo attacks. The homing torpedoes have a very short range at 6km. They deal high damage at 10,800, travel fast at 78 knots, and have a 62% flooding chance. While her homing torpedoes are good at short range, I-56 is considerably more vulnerable at closer ranges due to having bad surface concealment and bad Dive Capacity (meaning she cannot surface to regain air without being spotted when in range of enemy ships). Due to having 6 bow torpedo tubes, these torpedoes can be used for shotgunning (with a maximum alpha strike of 64,800. Both homing and conventional torpedoes have the same reload time, 35 seconds. I-56’s homing torpedoes should only be used as a last resort, as its low range limits flexibility in dealing damage. Players should not look to shotgun targets unless isolated targets present themselves.

This game is getting more and more pathetic every week.

I wonder why I haven't played for a good few days?

I also wonder why I have practically stopped playing Random Battles altogether?

 

I have been getting back into Xcom 2, a far better game.

Frankly, I just do not care about this once great game anymore.

 

Oh, and what's the next pathetic stupid idea that Wargaming have come up with?

A DD with an attack flight of fighters with Tiny Tim rockets.

It amazes me how Wargaming just want to screw over their own game from within.