General Submarines related discussions

[Schelfie]

1 hour ago, Haru6aTTop said:

Make better skill for commanders. Most of them are useless with addition for realizing skill ability.

And delete autoaim for CV against subs. They strike subs with preemtion bombs. There is no chance for sub against CV! CV's airstrike agains sub is total autoaim cheating!

Eveything to make sub players hell is welcome :D

[Pukovnik7]

23 hours ago, Sunleader said:

 

Except his Analysis is Complete Rubbish.

He keeps Comparing Different Times and always only small Areas etc.

Its the same as with the current thing about Sanctions on that Certain Country and its Special Operation. "Oh their Economy is Growing this Year. Sanctions aint Working" (Who Cares that their Economy was at 1.8 Trillion before and is now Supposedly Growing back to 1.6 Trillion after losing over 200 Billion in a Year. Clearly the Sanctions did nothing cuz Growing Bleh :P )

 

Its a Typical Flamu thing really.

He loves Hyperbole. Thats what he Earns his Money with. 

 

This is the Full Picture of the EU Server.

 

 

Pls Tell me where the Numbers Dropped.

In Asia Server the Numbers actually Grew.

In NA Server there is slight Decline over the last Year.

And well. Russian Server is a Heavy Decline. But lets Face it. People over there got other Problems than Playing World of Warships currently.....

 

 

So Yeah. Sorry. But Submarines wont Kill the Game.

I know You want it. Just like so many Snowflakes wanted it for whatever other Change they didnt like in the Past.

But its getting old to have the Doomsday Prophecies each Year. And the Fact is it wont happen.

 

You dont like it ?

Play something else.

Simple as that.

 

Your own chart actually shows average number dropping. Not by much, but if you compare the peak of the late 2022 - early 2023 (30k players), it is fair bit lower than previous peaks (which range from 33k in late '21 / early '22 to cca 39k of most peaks to 45k of the 215 peak). North American server also shows steady decline from April 2020., and in Asian server, number of players jumped massively in February 2020., but it has been a steady if slow decline ever since then.

 

So to quote, your analysis is "complete rubbish". Flamu may be exaggerating - that is his schtick, and yes, I am familiar he does that - but you are flat out making stuff up.

 

Also, I am playing something else. I occasionally dip back into World of Warships for nostalgia's sake, but twenty to forty games per month is far cry from times when I could have played same number of games in less than a week - or, in extreme cases (such as holidays), single day. Right now, the only value I see in the game is a) nostalgia and b) screenshots of warships for potential blog articles.

 

And if you want to see how good game is, what matters is not just the number of players, but also player retention. If you are doing marketing for a blog or similar, you may be familiar with "bounce rate". It is the frequency with which new readers that come to the blog simply take a look, or read one article, and then leave. Lower the bounce rate, more appealing your content is. WarGaming has extensive marketing - I can't go to a web site without seeing WoWS ad - and the fact that the number of players is dropping at all shows the game has turned into a flaming dumpster. Because frankly, so long as it isn't complete garbage, people would play it on the account of it being literally one of only two World War 2 naval MMOs out there - and WarThunder's naval mode simply cannot compare to World of Warships in terms of content available (plus, aircraft are even more dangerous there).

[Schelfie]

13 minutes ago, Pukovnik7 said:

Your own chart actually shows average number dropping. Not by much, but if you compare the peak of the late 2022 - early 2023 (30k players), it is fair bit lower than previous peaks (which range from 33k in late '21 / early '22 to cca 39k of most peaks to 45k of the 215 peak). North American server also shows steady decline from April 2020., and in Asian server, number of players jumped massively in February 2020., but it has been a steady if slow decline ever since then.

 

So to quote, your analysis is "complete rubbish". Flamu may be exaggerating - that is his schtick, and yes, I am familiar he does that - but you are flat out making stuff up.

 

Also, I am playing something else. I occasionally dip back into World of Warships for nostalgia's sake, but twenty to forty games per month is far cry from times when I could have played same number of games in less than a week - or, in extreme cases (such as holidays), single day. Right now, the only value I see in the game is a) nostalgia and b) screenshots of warships for potential blog articles.

 

And if you want to see how good game is, what matters is not just the number of players, but also player retention. If you are doing marketing for a blog or similar, you may be familiar with "bounce rate". It is the frequency with which new readers that come to the blog simply take a look, or read one article, and then leave. Lower the bounce rate, more appealing your content is. WarGaming has extensive marketing - I can't go to a web site without seeing WoWS ad - and the fact that the number of players is dropping at all shows the game has turned into a flaming dumpster. Because frankly, so long as it isn't complete garbage, people would play it on the account of it being literally one of only two World War 2 naval MMOs out there - and WarThunder's naval mode simply cannot compare to World of Warships in terms of content available (plus, aircraft are even more dangerous there).

You made the mistake to battle him with logic instead of sentiment. You'll see he will dismiss your arguments...

[Sunleader]

36 minutes ago, Pukovnik7 said:

Your own chart actually shows average number dropping. Not by much, but if you compare the peak of the late 2022 - early 2023 (30k players), it is fair bit lower than previous peaks (which range from 33k in late '21 / early '22 to cca 39k of most peaks to 45k of the 215 peak). North American server also shows steady decline from April 2020., and in Asian server, number of players jumped massively in February 2020., but it has been a steady if slow decline ever since then.

 

Peaks are Irrelevant Mate.

Peaks are Onetime Events that Funny enough often Look Good Despite happening from Bad Events.

The Big Peak in 2021 on the EU Server for Example was a Major Internet Blackout in Germany. Causing alot of Players in Germany having Connection Issues and then when it Finally came back all Logging on at Once.

The 2015 Peak was the Launch when Everyone Logged in at Once because Checking out New Game lol....

 

These Peaks Last a Few Hours and Say absolutely nothing about the actual Active Playerbase of a Game.

 

Fun Fact.

If WG Today has a Serveroutage Lasting until lets say the Afternoon.

You would have a Major Peak Today.

 

 

36 minutes ago, Pukovnik7 said:

So to quote, your analysis is "complete rubbish". Flamu may be exaggerating - that is his schtick, and yes, I am familiar he does that - but you are flat out making stuff up.

 

 

And what Exactly am I making up if I may Ask ? :)

 

See Mate. For any of us which can Remember Back further than 2 Months. You guys are Hilarious.

In 2020-2021 I had this kind of Discussion with People as well.

And back then they Claimed the Only Reason that we cant See how the Game is Dying from CVs is because we got Covid Lockdown and thus a Major Surge of Players from Lockdown.

Now in 2023 People suddenly claim that this Surge of Players after the CV Rework was just the Normal thing and the Drop in 2022 is clearly Because of Submarines lol

 

So According to You. The CV Rework was a Huge Success Right *gg*

 

 

The Truth however is Different.

If You Check the Average Playernumbers. You notice the Differences are basicly Nonexistant.

Before Covid the Average Players during a Year varied slightly between 12100 and 12700

During the Covid Lockdowns this Number Surged to over 14000.

Then after Covid Lockdowns it went back down to the same Range of 12100 and 12700

For Last Year its 12300 which is Perfectly within that Range.

 

36 minutes ago, Pukovnik7 said:

Also, I am playing something else. I occasionally dip back into World of Warships for nostalgia's sake, but twenty to forty games per month is far cry from times when I could have played same number of games in less than a week - or, in extreme cases (such as holidays), single day. Right now, the only value I see in the game is a) nostalgia and b) screenshots of warships for potential blog articles.

 

And where is the Problem ?

I have Played WoWs like that for Years.

WoWs is an Match Based PvP Game. The Vast Majority of Players do not Play it for Several Hours a Day.

This is one of the Things You Guys need to get into your Head.

 

Forums like this are Generally not where the Average Player will go.

People going here usually care a fair Deal about the Game and Spend alot of Time on it. 

 

The Overwhelming Majority of Players. Plays only 1 or 2 Hours every few Days.

The Average Player doesnt Spend 6 Hours a Day in the Game lol

The Forumites here which often Spend Upwards of 6 Hours in the Game are part of a Hardcore Minority in the Game.

 

36 minutes ago, Pukovnik7 said:

And if you want to see how good game is, what matters is not just the number of players, but also player retention. If you are doing marketing for a blog or similar, you may be familiar with "bounce rate". It is the frequency with which new readers that come to the blog simply take a look, or read one article, and then leave. Lower the bounce rate, more appealing your content is. WarGaming has extensive marketing - I can't go to a web site without seeing WoWS ad - and the fact that the number of players is dropping at all shows the game has turned into a flaming dumpster. Because frankly, so long as it isn't complete garbage, people would play it on the account of it being literally one of only two World War 2 naval MMOs out there - and WarThunder's naval mode simply cannot compare to World of Warships in terms of content available (plus, aircraft are even more dangerous there).

 

Uff 2 Things.

 

1.

World of Warships is nearly 10 Years Old and Still holds a Massive Playerbase.

No Offense to You. But their Player Retention is Friggin Insane.

Not sure You Realize this.

But if WoWs was a Steam Exclusive Title and thus actually had all their Playerbase on Steam instead of having . They would be in the Steam Charts Top 25 constantly.

2.

The Reason You get alot of WoWs Ads is because Your Cookies tell Website You Play it.

Maybe You should pay more Attention to Your Cyber Security. It Seems You are allowing your Browser to Just Freely Share Your Data Around. Thus any Website You Visit immediately Knowing what other Stuff You Visited.

I have not had World of Warships Ads for Ages lol

Which is not Surprising. Because I pay some Attention to my Online Security. Making sure that Websites only get Limited Data from Me.

Hence other Websites Generally having no Idea I am in World of Warships unless I directly tell them.

 

[Panzer_Guido]

Sun-mate making stuff up. WHO WOULD HAVE TAUGHT that a paid troll does that^^

[Yosha_AtaIante]

32 minutes ago, Panzer_Guido said:

Sun-mate making stuff up. WHO WOULD HAVE TAUGHT that a paid troll does that^^

can you point out the made up stuff?

[Yosha_AtaIante]

Just want to leave this here. here you go, your whining about homing torps has worked look

 

Looks like you people just arent important enough

[OldschoolGaming_YouTube]

I can only laugh at the total BS XP boosters for subs. I was completely useless the entire round, happen to sink one ship by accident and still made a crap-ton of XP 22 000!? and of course as usual made nr 1 in my team.....?

 

My team loaded with Superships btw ..... Maybe my 56 K damage or my 61 K damage upon my spotting WAAAY overperformed the SUPER CV? Or any of the other super ships....?

 

Do WG have any intelligent answer to this or is it just "as intended"? A BS booster so players play their new shiny toy so it doesn't appear like its a massive fail?!

 

 

 

 

[Aethervoxx]

22 minutes ago, OldschoolGaming_YouTube said:

is it just "as intended"?

I think the answer, unfortunately, is to play the low tiers where one never sees Subs & only those lousy reworked T4 CVs. &, ofc, to hope you don't see many reworked CVs or Subs in any higher tier play.

[Sunleader]

1 hour ago, OldschoolGaming_YouTube said:

I can only laugh at the total BS XP boosters for subs. I was completely useless the entire round, happen to sink one ship by accident and still made a crap-ton of XP 22 000!? and of course as usual made nr 1 in my team.....?

 

My team loaded with Superships btw ..... Maybe my 56 K damage or my 61 K damage upon my spotting WAAAY overperformed the SUPER CV? Or any of the other super ships....?

 

Do WG have any intelligent answer to this or is it just "as intended"? A BS booster so players play their new shiny toy so it doesn't appear like its a massive fail?!

 

 

 

 

 

Why did You Put a Big Exp Booster on a T10 Sub ?????

 

 

[Pukovnik7]

3 hours ago, Aethervoxx said:

I think the answer, unfortunately, is to play the low tiers where one never sees Subs & only those lousy reworked T4 CVs. &, ofc, to hope you don't see many reworked CVs or Subs in any higher tier play.

Or switch to a game with no subs...

11 hours ago, Sunleader said:

Peaks are Irrelevant Mate.

Peaks are Onetime Events that Funny enough often Look Good Despite happening from Bad Events.

The Big Peak in 2021 on the EU Server for Example was a Major Internet Blackout in Germany. Causing alot of Players in Germany having Connection Issues and then when it Finally came back all Logging on at Once.

The 2015 Peak was the Launch when Everyone Logged in at Once because Checking out New Game lol....

 

These Peaks Last a Few Hours and Say absolutely nothing about the actual Active Playerbase of a Game.

 

Fun Fact.

If WG Today has a Serveroutage Lasting until lets say the Afternoon.

You would have a Major Peak Today.

As I said: average numbers are dropping, and peaks are dropping as well.

 

Both are relevant, because both show interest in the game.

 

Yes, if WG had a server outage today, we would have a big peak. But it wouldn't be as big as previous peaks, because interest in the game is dropping.

 

How difficult is this to understand?

11 hours ago, Sunleader said:

And what Exactly am I making up if I may Ask ? :)

 

See Mate. For any of us which can Remember Back further than 2 Months. You guys are Hilarious.

In 2020-2021 I had this kind of Discussion with People as well.

And back then they Claimed the Only Reason that we cant See how the Game is Dying from CVs is because we got Covid Lockdown and thus a Major Surge of Players from Lockdown.

Now in 2023 People suddenly claim that this Surge of Players after the CV Rework was just the Normal thing and the Drop in 2022 is clearly Because of Submarines lol

 

So According to You. The CV Rework was a Huge Success Right *gg*

 

 

The Truth however is Different.

If You Check the Average Playernumbers. You notice the Differences are basicly Nonexistant.

Before Covid the Average Players during a Year varied slightly between 12100 and 12700

During the Covid Lockdowns this Number Surged to over 14000.

Then after Covid Lockdowns it went back down to the same Range of 12100 and 12700

For Last Year its 12300 which is Perfectly within that Range.

Like everything?

 

I never said that game will die any time soon. Or that it is dying. But fact is that player numbers are dropping. That means game has issues.

 

You have to understand that World of Warships is massive. Right now, it is sick. It will take time for it to get to "dying" phase, and even more time to actually die. But that also means that, when problems become obvious, it will be too late to fix them.

 

You say that people were wrong in 2020-2021 because World of Warships isn't dead yet? No, they weren't. I don't recall anybody saying that the game will drop dead in a year or two (or at least, nobody I listen to said that).

 

And yes, CV rework may well have been a success. I do not know - I wasn't playing the game when it had happened. But from what I gathered, it was only a success in terms of raising population of CV players.

11 hours ago, Sunleader said:

And where is the Problem ?

I have Played WoWs like that for Years.

WoWs is an Match Based PvP Game. The Vast Majority of Players do not Play it for Several Hours a Day.

This is one of the Things You Guys need to get into your Head.

 

Forums like this are Generally not where the Average Player will go.

People going here usually care a fair Deal about the Game and Spend alot of Time on it. 

 

The Overwhelming Majority of Players. Plays only 1 or 2 Hours every few Days.

The Average Player doesnt Spend 6 Hours a Day in the Game lol

The Forumites here which often Spend Upwards of 6 Hours in the Game are part of a Hardcore Minority in the Game.

Problem is in the fact that I am not enjoying the time I spend playing the game. As I said: I play it far less than I used to, and the only reason I kept playing it for the last year was a) nostalgia and b) I did not know any better naval MMO. Considering that I discovered one just recently (aforementioned Naval Action), I am not certain I will keep playing WoWS at all.

 

Just a year or two ago, even considering completely dropping World of Warships would have been unthinkable to me.

 

Not anymore. And that is the problem. I have put time and effort into the game because I enjoyed it, and I do not want to abandon the game I had spent so much time playing... but computer games are meant to entertain, not to feel like a chore, yet that is precisely how the last few months of playing World of Warships felt like. No enjoyment, no fun, just a chore.

11 hours ago, Sunleader said:

Uff 2 Things.

 

1.

World of Warships is nearly 10 Years Old and Still holds a Massive Playerbase.

No Offense to You. But their Player Retention is Friggin Insane.

Not sure You Realize this.

But if WoWs was a Steam Exclusive Title and thus actually had all their Playerbase on Steam instead of having . They would be in the Steam Charts Top 25 constantly.

2.

The Reason You get alot of WoWs Ads is because Your Cookies tell Website You Play it.

Maybe You should pay more Attention to Your Cyber Security. It Seems You are allowing your Browser to Just Freely Share Your Data Around. Thus any Website You Visit immediately Knowing what other Stuff You Visited.

I have not had World of Warships Ads for Ages lol

Which is not Surprising. Because I pay some Attention to my Online Security. Making sure that Websites only get Limited Data from Me.

Hence other Websites Generally having no Idea I am in World of Warships unless I directly tell them.

1. And? That just means that they were doing well last ten years. But things I consider serious problems only started cropping up recently. CV rework happened in 2019., but I don't consider it a major issue - sure, many may have preferred old CVs, but frankly, making CVs less impactful could have been only an improvement overall.

 

Also, that is not what "player retention" is. That is playerbase, but it tells you absolutely nothing about how well they retain players. Please make sure you understand terms being used before discussing them, and if you don't, ask.

 

2. I very much doubt it is an issue. I get those same ads on public computers as well.

[Sunleader]

52 minutes ago, Pukovnik7 said:

Or switch to a game with no subs...

As I said: average numbers are dropping, and peaks are dropping as well.

 

Both are relevant, because both show interest in the game.

 

Yes, if WG had a server outage today, we would have a big peak. But it wouldn't be as big as previous peaks, because interest in the game is dropping.

 

How difficult is this to understand?

Like everything?

 

I never said that game will die any time soon. Or that it is dying. But fact is that player numbers are dropping. That means game has issues.

 

You have to understand that World of Warships is massive. Right now, it is sick. It will take time for it to get to "dying" phase, and even more time to actually die. But that also means that, when problems become obvious, it will be too late to fix them.

 

You say that people were wrong in 2020-2021 because World of Warships isn't dead yet? No, they weren't. I don't recall anybody saying that the game will drop dead in a year or two (or at least, nobody I listen to said that).

 

And yes, CV rework may well have been a success. I do not know - I wasn't playing the game when it had happened. But from what I gathered, it was only a success in terms of raising population of CV players.

Problem is in the fact that I am not enjoying the time I spend playing the game. As I said: I play it far less than I used to, and the only reason I kept playing it for the last year was a) nostalgia and b) I did not know any better naval MMO. Considering that I discovered one just recently (aforementioned Naval Action), I am not certain I will keep playing WoWS at all.

 

Just a year or two ago, even considering completely dropping World of Warships would have been unthinkable to me.

 

Not anymore. And that is the problem. I have put time and effort into the game because I enjoyed it, and I do not want to abandon the game I had spent so much time playing... but computer games are meant to entertain, not to feel like a chore, yet that is precisely how the last few months of playing World of Warships felt like. No enjoyment, no fun, just a chore.

1. And? That just means that they were doing well last ten years. But things I consider serious problems only started cropping up recently. CV rework happened in 2019., but I don't consider it a major issue - sure, many may have preferred old CVs, but frankly, making CVs less impactful could have been only an improvement overall.

 

Also, that is not what "player retention" is. That is playerbase, but it tells you absolutely nothing about how well they retain players. Please make sure you understand terms being used before discussing them, and if you don't, ask.

 

2. I very much doubt it is an issue. I get those same ads on public computers as well.

 

TLDR

 

You cannot Name a Single Concrete thing I made up.

You choose to just Ignore the Fact that I just Showed You Numbers Proving the Average Playernumbers have actually not Dropped at all. And instead just Repeat Your Claim that WoWs is losing Players.

And You dont care about the Facts of WG being exceedingly Succesful because of Your Personal Opinion.

 

Interesting.

 

As for Naval Action.

Well Mate. Then go Play that. :)

There is no Sense in Staying in a Game thats not Fun for You.

 

 

[159Hunter]

@Sunleader @Pukovnik7 if you want to discuss server numbers: don't use such a useless graph.

All you're doing is visually trying to discern a pattern without adding important moments such as:

- COVID period

- transfer of RU accounts

- explanation for other peaks (prolly great patches, but one needs to verify)

 

After removing all outliners you could analyse the pattern.

[Captain_Lootbox]

15 hours ago, Aethervoxx said:

I think the answer, unfortunately, is to play the low tiers where one never sees Subs & only those lousy reworked T4 CVs. &, ofc, to hope you don't see many reworked CVs or Subs in any higher tier play.

Maybe subs and the CV rework is WG's overly complicated way of getting the lower tiers better populated

[plain_average]

can we please limit subs per team to 1 or at most 2. Having 3 per team is just silly

[Yosha_AtaIante]

6 minutes ago, plain_average said:

can we please limit subs per team to 1 or at most 2. Having 3 per team is just silly

subs are currently popular because everyone overhyped them. Wait for the hype to die 

[plain_average]

6 minutes ago, Zuihou_Kai_Ni said:

subs are currently popular because everyone overhyped them. people as a whole are stupid

Fixed it for you.

Subs have no place in this game and if it werent for the cost WG has spent on them, I think everyone except the griefers playing them would be happy if they got removed.

The give nothing good to the game, all they cause is more camping and BB's sniping from long range because dodgning homing torps quickly gets old.

Wargaming have failed utterly when they introduced subs - and its a shame really that they will not realise it.

Put subs into a different game mode where you have to attack a convoy or similar - in normal battles its just silly.

Subs in WW2 was mostly used in hunting convoys - not taking battle fleets on.

[Yosha_AtaIante]

1 minute ago, plain_average said:

Fixed it for you.

Subs have no place in this game and if it werent for the cost WG has spent on them, I think everyone except the griefers playing them would be happy if they got removed.

The give nothing good to the game, all they cause is more camping and BB's sniping from long range because dodgning homing torps quickly gets old.

Wargaming have failed utterly when they introduced subs - and its a shame really that they will not realise it.

Put subs into a different game mode where you have to attack a convoy or similar - in normal battles its just silly.

Subs in WW2 was mostly used in hunting convoys - not taking battle fleets on.

blahblah whatever dude. Just keep repeating the same copy pasta as you can see subs are clearly popular and played. Stop coping so hard your texts mean nothing 

[plain_average]

1 minute ago, Zuihou_Kai_Ni said:

blahblah whatever dude. Just keep repeating the same copy pasta as you can see subs are clearly popular and played. Stop coping so hard your texts mean nothing 

Well put, impressive retorics.

 

Just because something is popular and played does not mean its good for the game.

[Yosha_AtaIante]

8 minutes ago, plain_average said:

Well put, impressive retorics.

 

Just because something is popular and played does not mean its good for the game.

And it's not your business but WGs. So it's on them to decide what's good for their game and you have the freedom to leave if you don't like it 

[Captain_Lootbox]

Subs are so popular this weekend that I ran out of reports much faster than expected.   WG need to give us more.

[plain_average]

3 minutes ago, Zuihou_Kai_Ni said:

And it's not your business but WGs. So it's on them to decide what's good for their game and you have the freedom to leave if you don't like it 

Wargaming does not care about player retention or satisfaction - only the bottom line of their company. So the more crazy stuff they can put into the game causing even more silly people to join the better. The existing playerbase are left wondering where the game they started playing has gone and why WG caters for these griefer mechanics.

[Yosha_AtaIante]

1 minute ago, plain_average said:

Wargaming does not care about player retention or satisfaction - only the bottom line of their company. So the more crazy stuff they can put into the game causing even more silly people to join the better. The existing playerbase are left wondering where the game they started playing has gone and why WG caters for these griefer mechanics.

So? 

[plain_average]

1 minute ago, Captain_Lootbox said:

Subs are so popular this weekend that I ran out of reports much faster than expected.   WG need to give us more.

I have given up on reporting subs for "Unsportsmanlike conduct" - we all know wargaming does not care. So now I just play extremely defensive until subs are located and preferably killed. And that is the real problem with subs, they change the behavior of a lot of players to the worse.

[plain_average]

Just now, Zuihou_Kai_Ni said:

So? 

Yes