General Submarines related discussions

[SmegTheNoob]

8 minutes ago, SurfaceFish said:

One sub torpedo hit sinks you if you already used DCP to clear the ping no matter how much health you have left or if you using detonation flag!!

 

WG just needs to invest in keyboard companies as they will have a spike in sells after WG implement this much needed feature requested by the silent majority of players! Plus it will rise the basic xp of the average sub players to a new hight!

 

This feature will not apply to sub and CV of course. 

So what you are saying is if you use DCP, but one torpedo still hits you. This results in a detonation of your magazine?

I don't think that is the case? The DCP just clears the ping and stops homing doesn't it?

It has nothing to do with what happens when the torpedo hits you?

[SurfaceFish]

7 minutes ago, SmegTheNoob said:

So what you are saying is if you use DCP, but one torpedo still hits you. This results in a detonation of your magazine?

Yes, how else would you compensate for the "skill issue" most sub players seems to have? Even with artificially boosted XP WG gives to that class. All most all subs I came across finished near bottom of the xp table. 

 

Might just give subs one hit one kill torpedoes to show the time and money WG spent on this project was not a total waste!

 

P.S. I'm joking of course.

[Sunleader]

I would not joke too much about that.

People tend to forget this.

But the Reason we dont Have Overpen Citadel Damage anymore. Is because Cruiserplayers are too Potato to not drive around Broadside to BBs.

 

 

The Average Results must be Balanced.

If the Average Potato can get Average Results in a Sub. The Sub will be Buffed.

 

 

If DCP results in Subs not hitting enough Torps anymore.

Damage will be Increased etc.

[BLUB__BLUB]

4 hours ago, lup3s said:

 

100% flood chance when the DCP also has to be used to clear the ping ? WG balans department may have a job for you.

 

How about first adding an additional consumable to counter the Submarine's pings - then the 100% flooding chance could be viable.

The idea was to dump the ping (and guided torps) completely, THEN add 100% flooding, and do this instead of enlarging the alpha damage. 

Yeah otherwise I'd probably become managing director indeed... 

[BLUB__BLUB]

19 hours ago, Sunleader said:

If the Countermeasure reduced Homing Torp hits by 50% them Homing Torps would be buffed to do Double the Damage.

This might be more fun than what is actually happening now. 

[SmegTheNoob]

4 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

The idea was to dump the ping (and guided torps) completely, THEN add 100% flooding, and do this instead of enlarging the alpha damage. 

Yeah otherwise I'd probably become managing director indeed... 

It wouldn't bother me if Sub torps had 100% flooding chance.

Same goes for a higher damage.

 

As long as Homing Torps are gone and sonar pinging is a thing of the past.

 

It would reward the Sub player because of the harder chance to get a torp hit if there wasn't homing, while at the same time allowing the surface ship player more chance to avoid the torps or at least stop flooding with DCP.

The BB player would not be wasting DCP on a futile attempt to stop homing torps hitting.

[BLUB__BLUB]

50 minutes ago, SmegTheNoob said:

As long as Homing Torps are gone and sonar pinging is a thing of the past.

I would be OK with it if they introduced a version of it in T8, with slow torps (and not 5 of them). 

Most ships then need some sort of "foxer" or they need to be acoustic torpedoes (engine to zero = they lose target).
At T10 yeah, but ships need decent ASW, no "DCP only". 

[Sunleader]

1 hour ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

The idea was to dump the ping (and guided torps) completely, THEN add 100% flooding, and do this instead of enlarging the alpha damage. 

Yeah otherwise I'd probably become managing director indeed... 

 

Flooding is nowhere near enough Damage to Justify that.

So Yeah not happening either.

To begin with you need to realize this.

The Ping mechanic is mostly for people that get themselves killed if they try to get closer.

The amount of Average Potatoes running 0 damage games if Homing Torps get removed is Guaranteed to result in Major Buffs for Subs.

 

Better get used to it.

That Fantasy Ping Mechanic is there to Stay.

 

 

I would prefer actual Acoustic Torps.

Going super slow like 40 knots or so.

But homing on first target in seeking range.

But yeah wont get that either because WG wants some sort of interaction etc.

 

Hence. This Mechanic is there to stay

[BLUB__BLUB]

35 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

Flooding is nowhere near enough Damage to Justify that.

So Yeah not happening either.

I think you are correct, but we can dream. 

 

35 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

To begin with you need to realize this.

The Ping mechanic is mostly for people that get themselves killed if they try to get closer.

The amount of Average Potatoes running 0 damage games if Homing Torps get removed is Guaranteed to result in Major Buffs for Subs.

Yeah you see it as a potato-comforter. It probably is. 

 

35 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

I would prefer actual Acoustic Torps.

Going super slow like 40 knots or so.

But homing on first target in seeking range.

Bring it on. Also, bring back team damage. 
Also 2, once the torpedo leaves the tube he is no longer your friend...  

 

35 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

But yeah wont get that either because WG wants some sort of interaction etc.

Eh, they get enough interaction in the chat. 

 

35 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

Hence. This Mechanic is there to stay

I think so too, unfortunately. 

[SurfaceFish]

4 hours ago, Sunleader said:

If the Average Potato can get Average Results in a Sub. The Sub will be Buffed.

1st game of the evening, is the last game of the evening. 8K average damage in a T8 sub on my team, WG will have to buff subs, as it seems only new/bad players play them. As most older and experience players don't want to touch subs. Of course CV is his best performing class.

[Sunleader]

13 minutes ago, SurfaceFish said:

1st game of the evening, is the last game of the evening. 8K average damage in a T8 sub on my team, WG will have to buff subs, as it seems only new/bad players play them. As most older and experience players don't want to touch subs. Of course CV is his best performing class.

 

And I assume You have the Empirical Data to Back this Claim up ?

Because dont get me Wrong. But one or even ten People like that are not really showing anything.

Your most Winning Class for example is DDs. Despite You playing far more CV :)

You also are one of the People Talking about Subs but never having Played them. Thus just Attributing stuff to them without really knowing about it :)

 

How About You try Subs. And See how your average Results match up ? ;)

 

 

[SurfaceFish]

2 hours ago, Sunleader said:

 

And I assume You have the Empirical Data to Back this Claim up ?

Because dont get me Wrong. But one or even ten People like that are not really showing anything.

Your most Winning Class for example is DDs. Despite You playing far more CV :)

You also are one of the People Talking about Subs but never having Played them. Thus just Attributing stuff to them without really knowing about it :)

 

How About You try Subs. And See how your average Results match up ? ;)

 

 

No players have Empirical Data, you need to ask WG. But why is it most subs finished at bottom of the xp table in the games I played, and why WG give extra xp boost to sub but not other classes?  

 

I have played subs in PT and mods outside random and ranked, like the escort balloon mission, to get an idea how to counter them. They are even more boring than torp DD for me to play, but I do appreciate the island and town design more sailing in a sub as the camera height is much lower.

 

I prefer to look at people's performance over last year than over their whole playing career, gives a more accurate idea of their performance. My DD and CV win rate was about the same last year, but I also played DD in division and CV only solo, so the CV was much easier to play well than all the other class, as by WG's design after the rework. Just look at how bad my survival rates are in the surface ship classes.

 

I found sub is even easier to play than CV, like a much more stealthy torp DD, although you might not live after shotgun your target.

[Sunleader]

39 minutes ago, SurfaceFish said:

No players have Empirical Data, you need to ask WG. But why is it most subs finished at bottom of the xp table in the games I played, and why WG give extra xp boost to sub but not other classes?  

 

I have played subs in PT and mods outside random and ranked, like the escort balloon mission, to get an idea how to counter them. They are even more boring than torp DD for me to play, but I do appreciate the island and town design more sailing in a sub as the camera height is much lower.

 

I prefer to look at people's performance over last year than over their whole playing career, gives a more accurate idea of their performance. My DD and CV win rate was about the same last year, but I also played DD in division and CV only solo, so the CV was much easier to play well than all the other class, as by WG's design after the rework. Just look at how bad my survival rates are in the surface ship classes.

 

I found sub is even easier to play than CV, like a much more stealthy torp DD, although you might not live after shotgun your target.

 

What You find, feel and like more is really not relevant tough.

 

See. This is thing I hate about you guys.

You talk a Big Game about how OP Subs are and how their Torps are undodgable or their Diving is so much better than Smoke.

 

But when asked to back it up You hide behind vague claims or excuses.

At best You show cherrypicked singlecase stuff like a Screenshot.

 

 

If Subs are so Op why not Prove it ?

 

Long ago when CVs were still actually OP I argued that CVs are OP and got told to Play them myself and show it cause I got no Idea. So I went and played CV and well. Easy Unicum just like that because they were OP.

 

I even played around to rub it in.

And guess what. That put quite a bit of weight behind my Posts back then.

 

 

Now.

What do you got to Show me just how OP Subs are ?

 

 

 

Simple.

Take a Sub.

Play it and have vastly better Stats than with your other Classes.

 

Should not be a Problem if Subs are OP :)

[SurfaceFish]

4 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

What do you got to Show me just how OP Subs are ?

I said players I seen are bad at playing subs based on where they finish in xp table. It’s boring to play and frustrating to play against. So WG is stuck with a sh*t implementation that they can’t balance, just like the CV rework, 4 years after the rework and they still testing plane spotting! Either WG have to give sub players more training wheels to compensate their skill issue and piss off surface ships or watch as the sub player no decrease. 
 

You are happy with the way WG designed how playing and play against subs?

[Sunleader]

8 hours ago, SurfaceFish said:

I said players I seen are bad at playing subs based on where they finish in xp table. It’s boring to play and frustrating to play against. So WG is stuck with a sh*t implementation that they can’t balance, just like the CV rework, 4 years after the rework and they still testing plane spotting! Either WG have to give sub players more training wheels to compensate their skill issue and piss off surface ships or watch as the sub player no decrease. 
 

You are happy with the way WG designed how playing and play against subs?

 

Again. Thats just Anecdotal really.

Its the same as this.

 

 

It shows a moment in time. But it doesnt tell you anything about the actual situation.

You know this as well.

 

 

According to WG Subs are on the lower end of Performance. But still Acceptaböy Balanced.

Thats all that matters.

 

 

 

 

And No I am not.

But what I want if Homing Torps are removed would be Unlimited Divvetime and no Idiotic Airstrike for Ships without ASW.

 

So WG is at least Closer than what the People in this Topic Want ^^

[SmegTheNoob]

8 hours ago, SurfaceFish said:

I said players I seen are bad at playing subs based on where they finish in xp table. It’s boring to play and frustrating to play against. So WG is stuck with a sh*t implementation that they can’t balance, just like the CV rework, 4 years after the rework and they still testing plane spotting! Either WG have to give sub players more training wheels to compensate their skill issue and piss off surface ships or watch as the sub player no decrease. 
 

You are happy with the way WG designed how playing and play against subs?

What is abundantly clear, is the fact that its obvious that Wargaming have given up on trying to balance Submarines.

We have had something like 2 to 3 years of testing, both on a test server and on the live server.

There have been numerous attempts to change game play of Subs and the ASW of other ships.

Then suddenly back in Sept 2022 they announced that they were ready for release.

It is blindingly obvious that they were not ready for release.

In my mind, I have always said that Wargaming will never be able to balance Subs fairly.

The fact that they have given them an XP boost proves that they are desperate for players to go play them.

 

I will never play them, and am seriously considering stopping playing altogether, despite the fact that I have over 400 days of premium time left.

[The_Norwood]

WG simply needs to stop loading the dice - This torp IS going to hit you, ignore torp protection and do citadel damage because we said it is - these planes ARE going to get a drop off no matter what you do because we said they are.

I don't know a single person on the planet who this kind of shenanigans sits well with. Any other form of competition that did this would be prosecuted for doing it, it's called cheating. That's what pisses players off, being forced to be a victim. We all want matches to be based purely on skill, or lack of, not having your hands tied behind your back and being told to take it in the butt like the biatch that you are Mwahahahahahah!

[FellRaven]

So does anyone know when Hydroacoustic search started working against fully submerged Submarines?

 

I think it is well over due but I'm sure it didn't used to work but now appears to.

[Sunleader]

49 minutes ago, SmegTheNoob said:

What is abundantly clear, is the fact that its obvious that Wargaming have given up on trying to balance Submarines.

We have had something like 2 to 3 years of testing, both on a test server and on the live server.

There have been numerous attempts to change game play of Subs and the ASW of other ships.

Then suddenly back in Sept 2022 they announced that they were ready for release.

It is blindingly obvious that they were not ready for release.

In my mind, I have always said that Wargaming will never be able to balance Subs fairly.

The fact that they have given them an XP boost proves that they are desperate for players to go play them.

 

I will never play them, and am seriously considering stopping playing altogether, despite the fact that I have over 400 days of premium time left.

 

Again Mate. This is Your Opinion not Reality.

Submarines are not really Unbalanced.

Subs are pretty Week to be Honest.

And their Mechanics are Working within the Games Limits.

In the last Week I had over 30 Games. Majority of these had Subs in them.  But I only had about 5 Encounters with Subs. 4 of these Encounters I won hands down. And the One I lost. I was not Killed by the Sub but by the Subs Teammates as the Sub Ran Away because I overextended.

This pretty much fits with my own Experience Playing them as well.

Playing Subs is pretty Difficult. And Generally the Results are pretty Low. Because Homing Torps are easy to Dodge and Subs are easy to Kill. Making it hard to really do any Significant Damage to Enemies without getting Killed Yourself.

 

Your Adamant Refusal to Play them and thus Your Complete Ignorance of their Mechanics which Leads to You being Unable to Deal with them.

Is Purely Your Stubborness that Refuses to Learn the Game Mechanics.

Its not a Balancing Issue.

WG cannot be Demanded to Balance for a small Percentage of players that puts their Fingers in their Ears and goes lalalalala. Whenever others Explain to them how they can Deal with a Problem.

If You dont Play Subs. Hey Your Choice. But then You will Simply Continue to be Killed by them. Not Understanding what happened.

And if You then make False Claims about what Subs can do. Then I will Continue to Call You out on these False Claims. Correcting them.

 

 

 

27 minutes ago, The_Norwood said:

WG simply needs to stop loading the dice - This torp IS going to hit you, ignore torp protection and do citadel damage because we said it is - these planes ARE going to get a drop off no matter what you do because we said they are.

I don't know a single person on the planet who this kind of shenanigans sits well with. Any other form of competition that did this would be prosecuted for doing it, it's called cheating. That's what pisses players off, being forced to be a victim. We all want matches to be based purely on skill, or lack of, not having your hands tied behind your back and being told to take it in the butt like the biatch that you are Mwahahahahahah!

 

And how exactly do You Evade a Ships cannons ?

Answer is You dont.

The Game works on who is doing more Damage Faster.

Its not working on who gets the First actual Hit.

 

You cannot Evade Cannonfire 100%

You can Angle to Mitigate it. And You try to Evade bad Shots etc.

Same as with Subs and CVs.

But You cannot Prevent it.

 

There is a Reason that in the Game even the Puny Destroyer Guns that in Reality would do next to nothing to BB can in the Game in Fact Sink a Battleship.

This would be Impossible normally. Even if we assume the DD had Unlimited Ammo and could Fire at the BB for 10 Hours Straight. The BB would never Sink.

 

So why Should You be able to Prevent the CV from Dropping ?

 

 

 

Its a Simple Balancing Issue as Explained Countless Times.

If Ships could just Deny a CV the Drop. Then CVs would be Unplayable.

After all.

If Ship A is Impossible to Attack for Ship B. Then what Should Ship B do about it ?

Thats why we got the Idiotic Depth Charge Airstrikes too.

 

 

26 minutes ago, FellRaven said:

So does anyone know when Hydroacoustic search started working against fully submerged Submarines?

 

I think it is well over due but I'm sure it didn't used to work but now appears to.

 

Months Ago to be Honest.

Hydroacoustic Search is and has been Working against Subs before Christmas last Year. And Actually way before that too.

 

Its just that most People dont seem to get how it Works.

Fully Submerged Subs cannot be Detected at all even if You are Directly above them.

The Exception is Hydroacoustic Search. Which basicly Returns the Guaranteed Detection Radius and detects Fully Submerged Subs at 2km Distance.

It also Detects Periscope Depth Subs at Full Distance.

[Aethervoxx]

On 2/27/2023 at 8:03 AM, BLUB__BLUB said:

The idea was to dump the ping (and guided torps) completely, THEN add 100% flooding, and do this instead of enlarging the alpha damage. 

Yeah otherwise I'd probably become managing director indeed... 

 Imo, Blub_Blub, you haven't got a chance to become 'Managing Director' - your idea is too fair & logical , hence, you  aren't who 'they'    are looking for.

[SurfaceFish]

9 hours ago, Sunleader said:

But what I want if Homing Torps are removed would be Unlimited Divvetime and no Idiotic Airstrike for Ships without ASW.

Lol, considering a sub can detect surface ships with hydrophone without surface ships knowing it. You just want an undetectable God mod ship you can shootgun others without consequences. 

[Sunleader]

45 minutes ago, SurfaceFish said:

Lol, considering a sub can detect surface ships with hydrophone without surface ships knowing it. You just want an undetectable God mod ship you can shootgun others without consequences. 

 

All You want it to be is a useless Exp Pinata.

 

[Aethervoxx]

Don't feed the Koi - they just gulp for more.

 

[SurfaceFish]

29 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

 

All You want it to be is a useless Exp Pinata.

 

 

If you don't have something nice to say, don't need say anything at all mate.

[Sunleader]

25 minutes ago, SurfaceFish said:

 

If you don't have something nice to say, don't need say anything at all mate.

 

Look who is Talking :)