General Submarines related discussions

[Sunleader]

 

 

 

6 hours ago, KHETTIFER said:

Some nice cherry picked examples there, now show me how you deal with 2 subs in a division while in a vermont, while also being dropped by a CV and hunted by a DD!. Potatoes in a sub are quite easy to deal with yes, but a good player is a fecking nightmare, as they will wait until you are already occupied, you have no idea where they are until they ping you, and if they know what they are doing they move laterally to your position after launching torps and pinging you, you get no indication of direction(the ping marker isn't even accurate), so your asw is practically useless. It's fundamentally some of the worst game design i've seen in 30 years of gaming.

 

So You Claim Submarines are OP because to get down a Single Vermont You only need 2 Submarines in a Div +a DD and CV Support?

 

Lol

Think about Your Statement there for a Second.

 

 

 

[BLUB__BLUB]

8 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

Only ship dropped DCs get that. For air dropped ones the radius is 375m of which only 300m will actually deal damage.

Unless you're a CV, at which point you get 600m max with a 480m damage radius.

Well that just means that some of them really are useless, not surprise at all. 
And since you cannot check anyway where the sub is you'd also not notice exactly how far they work LMAO. 

 

I never cared for how much range they have on a CV. As it is automated, it is more like

having automated dice which you do not even have to worry about pressing "O" sector. 

Nothing you can do, nothing you have to do, boooooring RNG! 

[MixuS]

6 hours ago, Sunleader said:

Think about Your Statement there for a Second.

Think about your straw man for a second.

[Sunleader]

1 hour ago, MixuS said:

Think about your straw man for a second.

 

Oh ?

And where Exactly is my Statement a Strawman ?

 

You guys keep yapping about how Unfair, Overpowered etc Submarines are.

But when People tell You to Prove it by actually Playing Submarines and Showing us How you actually use these Undodgable Torpedoes, Immunity to Damage and Outrageus Speed to Outrun DDs etc.

You guys just make Excuses.

If People then Provide Clear Evidence by Gameplay Videos and Replays that its incredible easy to deal with Submarines. You refuse to Accept it and instead try ever more Outrageus Situations and Demands.

 

If People Show You Evidence that Submarine Torpedoes are easily Evadable. You instead bring up Examples of the Slowest and Fattest US Dreadnought BBs not being able to Evade them. And even when this is Shown to You. You keep Refusing increading the Requirements even further to now also Evade 100% and Sink the Submarine on the Side etc.

If People Demonstrate to You that Subs are in no way Immune or Hard to Kill. You suddenly Demand doing it with a Super Slow BB meant to be in the rear line and which is also not just Fighting 1 Submarine but is Fighting 2 Submarines that are in a Division while also being Targeted by the CV and an Enemy DD. lol

If People Ask you for the Statistics on what Submarines Outrun DDs. You come up with the Idea of Hypothethically the new Tier 10 Russian Sub which is not even Released Yet likely getting Speeds that can Outrun the Slowest T6-8 DDs.

 

 

 

I mean not to Offend You.

But are you guys even now and then Reading how Pathethic and Desperate YOUR Strawmens are getting at this Point ? :)

 

[BLUB__BLUB]

20 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

You guys keep yapping about how Unfair, Overpowered etc Submarines are.

I do not think they are overpowered. In fact, their torps should have much more of a blast than they do. 

That is also the proof that they are totally FUBAR. if they were honestly balanced and manageable, they'd have their actual power. 

It is the same as CVs, they have nerfed the damage into the ground to 'balanz' the way they FFd up gameplay. 

To the point that their xp-gains have been mollycoddled else nobody would play them. 

 

Think about why Ise has the torpedo damage halved compared to the similar tier Japanese DDs. 
Else it would just crap all over everything. Now it is limited to just crapping half over everything. 
So, instead of deleting a whole BB Ise can only delete ~half a BB but due to spotting teammates will gladly help. 

 

Actually, I LIKE having subs and CVs in the game, I think if they weren't there it is only half a game. 
Just the way WeeGee have done it, is an absolute travesty. But I guess we have to live with it.

[Sunleader]

31 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

I do not think they are overpowered. In fact, their torps should have much more of a blast than they do. 

That is also the proof that they are totally FUBAR. if they were honestly balanced and manageable, they'd have their actual power. 

It is the same as CVs, they have nerfed the damage into the ground to 'balanz' the way they FFd up gameplay. 

To the point that their xp-gains have been mollycoddled else nobody would play them. 

 

Think about why Ise has the torpedo damage halved compared to the similar tier Japanese DDs. 
Else it would just crap all over everything. Now it is limited to just crapping half over everything. 
So, instead of deleting a whole BB Ise can only delete ~half a BB but due to spotting teammates will gladly help. 

 

Actually, I LIKE having subs and CVs in the game, I think if they weren't there it is only half a game. 
Just the way WeeGee have done it, is an absolute travesty. But I guess we have to live with it.

 

ISE cant kill half a BB. Its Torpedoes have about 1/8 of the Damage of Japanese DDs lol

The Alpha for a Full Torpedoe Strike from ISE is Laughable at about 20k which means against most BBs it will do like 16k at best. And thats assuming a Full Strike.

 

But that aside.

I didnt mean You in the First Place Mate.

You tend to Generally be Fairly Reasonable.

 

[SmegTheNoob]

Really sick and tired of the Submarine lovers telling me to try them for myself.

It has got to the stage where I have had to take the actions available to me on  the forums.

IE I have had to actually do a something that I thought I would never do.

Can't say what, because no doubt its against the rules.

But it starts with a B

[BLUB__BLUB]

1 hour ago, Sunleader said:

ISE cant kill half a BB. Its Torpedoes have about 1/8 of the Damage of Japanese DDs lol

The Alpha for a Full Torpedoe Strike from ISE is Laughable at about 20k which means against most BBs it will do like 16k at best. And thats assuming a Full Strike.

Yeah well, maybe a T5 BB then (or some cruiser). Anyway you get the idea. Imagine Ise with full blast IJN torps. 

 

You can see where the design (and the gameplay) fails. In the Ise case it is the same as with CV, actually. 

If they gave it two planes with one torp each (like it should have but blah blah realism Ok...), half of the playerbase would not even get to target. 
The ones that would, half of them would miss the two torps. So, you give them 4 planes and 8 torps to make it easier and then you nerf the damage. 
Average player hits 3-4 torps, balanz achieved comrade... meanwhile the savvy dudes will hit 7 or 8 no problem.

 

That is the same with subs, unless you are quite smart and (for example) manage to shoot him (with HE) at the same time your air-drop will arrive.

So the smart FFers cannot just go above water when they know the planes are coming (minimap...) to drop the waterbombs. 

 

1 hour ago, Sunleader said:

But that aside.

I didnt mean You in the First Place Mate.

You tend to Generally be Fairly Reasonable.

Yeah some are quite the proverbial mad spirits in the sky. Can't help sympathizing with them though. 

The gameplay/counterplay with subs is crap. Which is why they nerfed the output. And then they needed to raise the XP.

 

It is like, suppose you invented a self-aiming-radar-machinegun but they'll only let you use it if you replace 3/4 of the bullets by duds.

And then they say 'noooo it is not borked-OP' because the actual damage isn't that heavy compared to others.
But you know it is crap design anyway. It's like, yes we will get nukes but they can only make a black hole in 20% of the map. 

The better player would know where to make that hole. 

[Sunleader]

49 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

Yeah well, maybe a T5 BB then (or some cruiser). Anyway you get the idea. Imagine Ise with full blast IJN torps. 

 

You can see where the design (and the gameplay) fails. In the Ise case it is the same as with CV, actually. 

If they gave it two planes with one torp each (like it should have but blah blah realism Ok...), half of the playerbase would not even get to target. 
The ones that would, half of them would miss the two torps. So, you give them 4 planes and 8 torps to make it easier and then you nerf the damage. 
Average player hits 3-4 torps, balanz achieved comrade... meanwhile the savvy dudes will hit 7 or 8 no problem.

 

That is the same with subs, unless you are quite smart and (for example) manage to shoot him (with HE) at the same time your air-drop will arrive.

So the smart FFers cannot just go above water when they know the planes are coming (minimap...) to drop the waterbombs. 

 

 

Fallacy.

This would only be a Fail if the Intention of this Game was to be Realistic.

But this Game is not a Simulation and not even Aiming for Realism. Its an Arcade Game with some Historical Elements.

 

Realism is not Existing in anything in this Game.

Our Ships Travel 10km in but 2-3 Minutes. Putting it Simple. Most of our Ships are Cruising around the Ocean with like 150kph which is Absurd considering that in Reality a Ship going 30 Knots should need nearly 12 Minutes for that Distance.

We Survive Multiple Penetrations from Battleship Caliber Shells. And not just Overpens either. 

We got Destroyers being Magically Invisible if they cross behind a certain Distance and Radar having a Range of only 10km while going through whole Islands.

We are Driving around Islands and along the Coast which for some reason go right down to a Level where even Battleships can Sail there as well when in Reality Battleships often need to keep quite the Distance from Islands and Coast due to the Risk of Running into the Ground etc etc etc.

 

For the Game its Perfectly Reasonable to do it like this.

Or do You really Think the Average WoWs Players would be able to even Hit 1% of their Shells if they had to Fire their Guns in a Halfwat Realistic Manner ?

 

 

 

49 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

Yeah some are quite the proverbial mad spirits in the sky. Can't help sympathizing with them though. 

The gameplay/counterplay with subs is crap. Which is why they nerfed the output. And then they needed to raise the XP.

 

Dont Sympathize with them Pls.

Because People like them only make it easier for WG to Dismiss everything Said here.

Needless to Say. What Few People in WG actually Search the Forums for Ideas, Feedback and Suggestions. Thanks to these People constantly have to Search through that Ocean of Useless Drivel and Hatred. Causing them to Skip through and never See the actually useful and justified Parts.

 

 

 

1 hour ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

It is like, suppose you invented a self-aiming-radar-machinegun but they'll only let you use it if you replace 3/4 of the bullets by duds.

And then they say 'noooo it is not borked-OP' because the actual damage isn't that heavy compared to others.
But you know it is crap design anyway. It's like, yes we will get nukes but they can only make a black hole in 20% of the map. 

The better player would know where to make that hole. 

 

Well. As Explained above Mate.

That is exactly how ALL Ships in WoWs Work.

 

In Reality. Battles between Ships were usually decided by but a few Hits.

If a Battleship in Reality. Scored 10 Penetrations into an Hostile Battleships Armor Belt. Then that other Battleship in all Likelihood would be Destroyed.

Likewise however in Reality. Actually Penetrating a Battleship was ALOT Harder than in the Game.

 

But You See.

Firing at each other for 10 Minutes before actually doing any Meaningful Damage to the other at all. Thanks to missing vast Majority of Shots and the ones that Hit not getting into the Armor. And then the Match being Over by whoever Scored a Lucky hit First.

Would not make for a Fun Game.

Likewise a DD would likely not Enjoy it much if he was Spotted at the same Distance as a Battleship. (because thats how it is in Reality) and would then likely be Destroyed by but a Single Hit from a BB Caliber HE Shell tearing half the Ship into Pieces.

 

 

 

 

[BLUB__BLUB]

51 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

 

 

Fallacy.

This would only be a Fail if the Intention of this Game was to be Realistic.

But this Game is not a Simulation and not even Aiming for Realism. Its an Arcade Game with some Historical Elements.

 

Realism is not Existing in anything in this Game.

Our Ships Travel 10km in but 2-3 Minutes. Putting it Simple. Most of our Ships are Cruising around the Ocean with like 150kph which is Absurd considering that in Reality a Ship going 30 Knots should need nearly 12 Minutes for that Distance.

We Survive Multiple Penetrations from Battleship Caliber Shells. And not just Overpens either. 

We got Destroyers being Magically Invisible if they cross behind a certain Distance and Radar having a Range of only 10km while going through whole Islands.

We are Driving around Islands and along the Coast which for some reason go right down to a Level where even Battleships can Sail there as well when in Reality Battleships often need to keep quite the Distance from Islands and Coast due to the Risk of Running into the Ground etc etc etc.

 

For the Game its Perfectly Reasonable to do it like this.

Or do You really Think the Average WoWs Players would be able to even Hit 1% of their Shells if they had to Fire their Guns in a Halfwat Realistic Manner ?

There's no fallacy there mate. I'm not saying WoWS should be realistic, of course it is more fun to have 8 torps going (even if it is very difficult to hit them all, because ships just aren't hat big...).
I'm just saying WoWS should take a more sensible approach if possible. Because it will be more 'instinctive' and as such make the game better. 

Yes lots is gimped, for the sake of arcade gameplay. But some stuff goes as far as: wanna avoid the hits, pull the plug, your ships will duck. 

 

51 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

Dont Sympathize with them Pls.

Because People like them only make it easier for WG to Dismiss everything Said here.

Needless to Say. What Few People in WG actually Search the Forums for Ideas, Feedback and Suggestions. Thanks to these People constantly have to Search through that Ocean of Useless Drivel and Hatred. Causing them to Skip through and never See the actually useful and justified Parts.

I do not sympathize with the ones that want subs gone. They are here to stay, we all know that. 

I also do not sympathize with the ones that say that subs do too much damage, because they do not. 
But I do sympathize with those that say the mechanics are crap. Because they are. 

 

 

51 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

Well. As Explained above Mate.

That is exactly how ALL Ships in WoWs Work.

Not exactly. Some things are still 'making sense'. Planes fly, ships float, subs can dive. 

DDs do not jump. Islands can be smacked into, and hit with guns. Shells that hit you can damage you. 

Smokescreens give you a certain invisibility, but also reduce your own vision. 

 

51 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

In Reality. Battles between Ships were usually decided by but a few Hits.

If a Battleship in Reality. Scored 10 Penetrations into an Hostile Battleships Armor Belt. Then that other Battleship in all Likelihood would be Destroyed.

Likewise however in Reality. Actually Penetrating a Battleship was ALOT Harder than in the Game.

True. But still, in WoWS some stuff is realistic, up to a certain point. 

DDs are less tanky than cruisers, BBs are even more tanky. For example. 

I don't think it would be much liked if all ships were equally fast, tanky or maneuverable. 

Certain 'liberties' come with the arcade gamestyle. But there shouldn't be too much total bullcrap.

 

51 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

But You See.

Firing at each other for 10 Minutes before actually doing any Meaningful Damage to the other at all. Thanks to missing vast Majority of Shots and the ones that Hit not getting into the Armor. And then the Match being Over by whoever Scored a Lucky hit First.

Would not make for a Fun Game.

Likewise a DD would likely not Enjoy it much if he was Spotted at the same Distance as a Battleship. (because thats how it is in Reality) and would then likely be Destroyed by but a Single Hit from a BB Caliber HE Shell tearing half the Ship into Pieces.

Yeah, I agree on that. But a certain amount of realism and immersion should be in there. 

Most complaints are about absolute bubkus mechanics, and I do support those. 

For example if they'd introduce a 'forcefield' I don't think anyone would like that, no matter how arcade the game is. 
Because what would be the attraction of a 'WW2 orientated sea battle shipgame with guns & stuff' then? It would not be that anymore. 

 

It would be fitting a 'steampunk version' (like we get at Halloween) but it would not attracks many that like 'realistic' (even if arcade style) shipgames. 

Such is the thing I think about subs. It is like playing Assassins Creed Black Flag and then finding a crocodile that craps lasers out of its arse.

[plain_average]

Please get rid of homing torps.

Its silly and if people do not have the skills to aim, they should not play a torp dependent vessel.

There are no reason why subs should have homing torps, except "because its cool" - and thats not a good enough reason.

Subs still have their unbeatable stealth. No other class can stay undetected and surface near a ship and fire torps.

[Sunleader]

31 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

There's no fallacy there mate. I'm not saying WoWS should be realistic, of course it is more fun to have 8 torps going (even if it is very difficult to hit them all, because ships just aren't hat big...).
I'm just saying WoWS should take a more sensible approach if possible. Because it will be more 'instinctive' and as such make the game better. 

Yes lots is gimped, for the sake of arcade gameplay. But some stuff goes as far as: wanna avoid the hits, pull the plug, your ships will duck. 

 

Well. Thing is. People Seem to Like it.

Once You Ignore Realism the only Question is wether or not You can make the Mechanics Fun. And it Seems WG is Hitting the Right Spot for Tens of Thousands of Players.

 

31 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

I do not sympathize with the ones that want subs gone. They are here to stay, we all know that. 

I also do not sympathize with the ones that say that subs do too much damage, because they do not. 
But I do sympathize with those that say the mechanics are crap. Because they are. 

 

And Yet You just Intervened on me telling such People, that have no Idea of these Mechanics, off.

 

31 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

Not exactly. Some things are still 'making sense'. Planes fly, ships float, subs can dive. 

DDs do not jump. Islands can be smacked into, and hit with guns. Shells that hit you can damage you. 

Smokescreens give you a certain invisibility, but also reduce your own vision. 

 

Except None of these things are in any way making Sense Really.

 

Planes Fly on a Single Plane and like on Rails while also Magically being able to Suddenly gain Altitude far beyond what Physics would Allow.

Ships are not Floating at All. Instead Gliding Around an Iceskaeting Ring which is not behaving like Water in any way and in which they also cannot Capsize or are otherwise affected by Water.

Submarines Dive for but 3-5 Minutes and to Preset Depths.

DDs should actually Jump if Hit by a Single Torpedo or BB HE Shells. And Islands if You "Smack" into them with a Ship should actually Tear Giant Holes into Your Ship as well as having You Run Aground and be Stuck there.

Hitting Islands with Guns does nothing either. Its not even causing a Crater and Buildings on the Island are apparently capable of just bouncing BB Shells.

Shells that Hit You can indeed Damage You. And they can do so where they Really Should not and dont do any Damage sometimes when they Absolutely Should. For example a Shell Penetrating Your Turret Should mean that Turrets gone. But in the Game it often just means You get a 0 Damage Hit.

Smokescreens Should not make You Invisible like they do either. And unless You have Radar Guided Fire Control it Should not matter what Teammates can See as You should not be able to Shoot Accurately Outside.

 

None of these Mechanics are even Remotely Realistic. All of them are Complete Fantasy.

 

 

 

31 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

True. But still, in WoWS some stuff is realistic, up to a certain point. 

DDs are less tanky than cruisers, BBs are even more tanky. For example. 

I don't think it would be much liked if all ships were equally fast, tanky or maneuverable. 

Certain 'liberties' come with the arcade gamestyle. But there shouldn't be too much total bullcrap.

 

No its Not lol.

WoWs Stuff is entirely and utteraly Fantasy and Arcade.

Some Models are Historically Accurate. NOT REALISTIC. :)

And thats about it really.

 

And are they ?

DDs can be alot more Tanky than Cruisers and BBs are often very Squishy as well.

 

And Yes. It would not be Liked. But funny enough. All Ships in the Game are Vastly more Maneuverable than in Reality :)

 

 

And Well Mate.

The Whole Game is Complete Fantasy.

Dont get me Wrong. I know what You mean.

But See Mate. Wether its Bullcrab or not is Decided by People having Fun Playing it or not.

And People Play it. So WG is Happy.

 

 

31 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

Yeah, I agree on that. But a certain amount of realism and immersion should be in there. 

Most complaints are about absolute bubkus mechanics, and I do support those. 

For example if they'd introduce a 'forcefield' I don't think anyone would like that, no matter how arcade the game is. 
Because what would be the attraction of a 'WW2 orientated sea battle shipgame with guns & stuff' then? It would not be that anymore. 

 

It would be fitting a 'steampunk version' (like we get at Halloween) but it would not attracks many that like 'realistic' (even if arcade style) shipgames. 

Such is the thing I think about subs. It is like playing Assassins Creed Black Flag and then finding a crocodile that craps lasers out of its arse.

 

Thing is. It Seems that You are a Minority in this.

Players dont care about Realism so much. Not Surprising either. Take Warthunder as an Example.

The most Played Mode by Factors there is Arcade Battles. Even the Realistic Battles which are still very Arcade but try to maintain a Minimum of Immersion. Are barely Played by People. Simulation is mostly Dead entirely.

 

 

 

[SurfaceFish]

58 minutes ago, plain_average said:

 

 There are no reason why subs should have homing torps, except "because its cool" - and thats not a good enough reason.

How many people would play them if WG removed the pinging and homing, they are slow, have no guns to fight other ships like destroyers.

[SmegTheNoob]

1 minute ago, SurfaceFish said:

How many people would play them if WG removed the pinging and homing, they are slow, have no guns to fight other ships like destroyers.

Well, that's just the whole reason why Wargaming had to give dumb Subs a GIMICK.

 

Its the only reason 75% of Sub players play the class.

[SurfaceFish]

21 minutes ago, SmegTheNoob said:

Well, that's just the whole reason why Wargaming had to give dumb Subs a GIMICK.

 

Its the only reason 75% of Sub players play the class.

Still don’t see many subs in game, but WG is going to release more lines, so who knows. Considering they reworked all that underwater graphics, it was more work than reworked CV. So WG will be pushing subs hard down our throats, like give them BS basic xp boost. Imaging give the most stealthy class the most xp for spotting!

 

I don’t care about the sub in game, most sub players are terrible and even the best can’t affect the match like some 70% solo WR CV players. It’s the underhanded way WG uses to give sub player artificial xp boosts I’m against. 

[SmegTheNoob]

Just now, SurfaceFish said:

Still don’t see many subs in game, but WG is going to release more lines, so who knows. Considering they reworked all that underwater graphics, it was more work than reworked CV. So WG will be pushing subs hard down our throats.

Are you playing the same game as me?

I see tons of Subs in Random Battles.

Nearly every game I play, has at least 1 Sub in it. More often its 2 Subs.

Then you can add the 1 or 2 CV on the teams too.

 

The result is a farce.

Esp if you happen to be bottom tier too.

[SurfaceFish]

2 minutes ago, SmegTheNoob said:

Are you playing the same game as me?

I see tons of Subs in Random Battles.

Maybe one or two in game, every 3rd game, no sub, but like I said most are crap at playing them and just sail around aimlessly, so don’t notice them too much. 

[SmegTheNoob]

2 minutes ago, SurfaceFish said:

Maybe one or two in game, every 3rd game, no sub, but like I said most are crap at playing them and just sail around aimlessly, so don’t notice them too much. 

I can usually live with 1 Sub. That means I can sail to the other side of the map and avoid it lol.

[BLUB__BLUB]

4 hours ago, Sunleader said:

Well. Thing is. People Seem to Like it.

Once You Ignore Realism the only Question is wether or not You can make the Mechanics Fun. And it Seems WG is Hitting the Right Spot for Tens of Thousands of Players.

That last part, yes it is true (I agree on the first part, there we have the same opinion).
The last part though is where, yes we both think the same, but it is also where the 'problem' is. 

WeeGee caters for 'the average consumer'.  And what they want is mindless, idiotic, smacker-bam graphics effects. 
 

4 hours ago, Sunleader said:

And Yet You just Intervened on me telling such People, that have no Idea of these Mechanics, off.

Yes. Because you are trying to explain to them why the subs are not a problem. You say the damage they do isn't that bad (which is true). 

But it is the way that they do it. It does not add to the game experience, it breaks it. Therefore they ARE a problem.

The problem is that they are counter-natural. Not as in 'unrealistic (everything is sort of unrealistic and arcade). 
But they go against the grain, and that is why they make the play UNFUN for some people. Therefore ANY damage t done that way is perceived as unfair and too much.

Another problem is that players that actually understand how they work (and how other ships work) can abuse the FFF out of them.

 

4 hours ago, Sunleader said:

Except None of these things are in any way making Sense Really.

 

Planes Fly on a Single Plane and like on Rails while also Magically being able to Suddenly gain Altitude far beyond what Physics would Allow.

Ships are not Floating at All. Instead Gliding Around an Iceskaeting Ring which is not behaving like Water in any way and in which they also cannot Capsize or are otherwise affected by Water.

Submarines Dive for but 3-5 Minutes and to Preset Depths.

DDs should actually Jump if Hit by a Single Torpedo or BB HE Shells. And Islands if You "Smack" into them with a Ship should actually Tear Giant Holes into Your Ship as well as having You Run Aground and be Stuck there.

Hitting Islands with Guns does nothing either. Its not even causing a Crater and Buildings on the Island are apparently capable of just bouncing BB Shells.

Shells that Hit You can indeed Damage You. And they can do so where they Really Should not and dont do any Damage sometimes when they Absolutely Should. For example a Shell Penetrating Your Turret Should mean that Turrets gone. But in the Game it often just means You get a 0 Damage Hit.

Smokescreens Should not make You Invisible like they do either. And unless You have Radar Guided Fire Control it Should not matter what Teammates can See as You should not be able to Shoot Accurately Outside.

 

None of these Mechanics are even Remotely Realistic. All of them are Complete Fantasy.

I think we both can agree that WoWS is about as realistic as GTA5. I've seen Dds jump when going BOOM though, and getting stuck on underwater "reefs"... 

But even in GTA5, some stuff  like flying supercars with rocket propulsion and laserguns are hated. 
But they are also liked... and that is where the actual problem is. WeeGee caters for these players that like that stuff. Anything that will make a sale.

The other players (the ones that object) would probably even accept if you could team up, get 20 idiots with bazookas in a helicopter, and then crash the live server. 
But they'll not react kindly to a flying DeLorean with laser guns that defies the good old bazookas. There is some kind of limit to what people are able to digest.

I think WeeGee has hit the limit of a lot of people in the way they did the subs. 

 

4 hours ago, Sunleader said:

No its Not lol.

WoWs Stuff is entirely and utteraly Fantasy and Arcade.

Some Models are Historically Accurate. NOT REALISTIC. :)

And thats about it really.

 

And are they ?

DDs can be alot more Tanky than Cruisers and BBs are often very Squishy as well.

 

And Yes. It would not be Liked. But funny enough. All Ships in the Game are Vastly more Maneuverable than in Reality :)

Yeah it is like GTA5 for ships. Sort of. Maybe even worse in some ways. 
At least with GTA5 you sort of expect it to be 'over the top humor ridiculous' in some ways. 

 

4 hours ago, Sunleader said:

And Well Mate.

The Whole Game is Complete Fantasy.

Dont get me Wrong. I know what You mean.

But See Mate. Wether its Bullcrab or not is Decided by People having Fun Playing it or not.

And People Play it. So WG is Happy.

There we have it. Money talks, bullsh!t walks. I think we agree again here. Because.

Next up, environmental green electric botes line, from Antarctica, a very important shipping nation.

I'm quite sure some people would pay for the T11 Antarctic CV, the HMS Habakuk. So WeeGee would do it.

And some people would like it, some would not. I agree that is fact (or could become fact). 

 

4 hours ago, Sunleader said:

Thing is. It Seems that You are a Minority in this.

Players dont care about Realism so much. Not Surprising either. Take Warthunder as an Example.

The most Played Mode by Factors there is Arcade Battles. Even the Realistic Battles which are still very Arcade but try to maintain a Minimum of Immersion. Are barely Played by People. Simulation is mostly Dead entirely.

You are probably right I am a minority in this. Also, I think the game is still good enough to play. 

But it is getting further and further away from what it was, becoming more gimmicky by the day.
Also, WeeGee is not fixing the cause of problems. Like in CVs, the spotting. In subs, the homing torps.

 

So, some day I might leave as well. I also use the option to de-activate 'steampunk' camo. 
I'm not playing Halloween stuff unless a few times with buddies. But I know some people just love it.  They'll pay... so...

Well, a mechanical-crocodile-shaped submarine with laserbeams might apeal to them too, and be more fitting with the mechanics.

As for subs, I guess either deal with it or go play War Thunder... LMAO. But I understand why people hate them.

[Sunleader]

6 hours ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

That last part, yes it is true (I agree on the first part, there we have the same opinion).
The last part though is where, yes we both think the same, but it is also where the 'problem' is. 

WeeGee caters for 'the average consumer'.  And what they want is mindless, idiotic, smacker-bam graphics effects. 
 

Yes. Because you are trying to explain to them why the subs are not a problem. You say the damage they do isn't that bad (which is true). 

But it is the way that they do it. It does not add to the game experience, it breaks it. Therefore they ARE a problem.

The problem is that they are counter-natural. Not as in 'unrealistic (everything is sort of unrealistic and arcade). 
But they go against the grain, and that is why they make the play UNFUN for some people. Therefore ANY damage t done that way is perceived as unfair and too much.

Another problem is that players that actually understand how they work (and how other ships work) can abuse the FFF out of them.

 

I think we both can agree that WoWS is about as realistic as GTA5. I've seen Dds jump when going BOOM though, and getting stuck on underwater "reefs"... 

But even in GTA5, some stuff  like flying supercars with rocket propulsion and laserguns are hated. 
But they are also liked... and that is where the actual problem is. WeeGee caters for these players that like that stuff. Anything that will make a sale.

The other players (the ones that object) would probably even accept if you could team up, get 20 idiots with bazookas in a helicopter, and then crash the live server. 
But they'll not react kindly to a flying DeLorean with laser guns that defies the good old bazookas. There is some kind of limit to what people are able to digest.

I think WeeGee has hit the limit of a lot of people in the way they did the subs. 

 

Yeah it is like GTA5 for ships. Sort of. Maybe even worse in some ways. 
At least with GTA5 you sort of expect it to be 'over the top humor ridiculous' in some ways. 

 

There we have it. Money talks, bullsh!t walks. I think we agree again here. Because.

Next up, environmental green electric botes line, from Antarctica, a very important shipping nation.

I'm quite sure some people would pay for the T11 Antarctic CV, the HMS Habakuk. So WeeGee would do it.

And some people would like it, some would not. I agree that is fact (or could become fact). 

 

You are probably right I am a minority in this. Also, I think the game is still good enough to play. 

But it is getting further and further away from what it was, becoming more gimmicky by the day.
Also, WeeGee is not fixing the cause of problems. Like in CVs, the spotting. In subs, the homing torps.

 

So, some day I might leave as well. I also use the option to de-activate 'steampunk' camo. 
I'm not playing Halloween stuff unless a few times with buddies. But I know some people just love it.  They'll pay... so...

Well, a mechanical-crocodile-shaped submarine with laserbeams might apeal to them too, and be more fitting with the mechanics.

As for subs, I guess either deal with it or go play War Thunder... LMAO. But I understand why people hate them.

 

Well. So we dont Really Disagree all that much. Except that I am more Accepting of what WG does.

This is Fine Really.

Taste is a Personal thing after all.

 

Dont get me Wrong. I as well Like Immersion. I am just not as Strict on alot of Stuff. So I can Enjoy this even with alot of Fantasy added into it.

I from the Start am not that bothered with Realism or History unless its a Game that is actually a Simulation and I play it for that Simulation.

 

From my Viewpoint. I actually Loved the Steampunk Deathmatches with the Destroyers where the Map would get ever Smaller.

I also Loved the Events where we got the more Futuristic Ships for the Deathmatch where you had to gather Loot and then Escape into the Portal in the Middle or get dragged into a Deathmatch at the end.

I would totally Support them making these Permanent. Even tough they are complete Fantasy Setting.

Likewise I dont mind Paperships and even made up Ships. Because I just want to have Fun in the Game.

I would Prefer Proper Fire and Forget Acoustic Torpedoes over the current Ping Mechanic. Just like I would Prefer no Divetime Limit. But I will just Deal with both.

I am actually Annoyed that BBs are the Best Submarine Hunters. But well. I am just gonna Deal with it as long as it Remains Fun.

 

 

And well.

Here is the Thing.

I am Simple in this.

If I get Bored with the Game or its not Fun anymore for a Different Reason. I Simply Quit. Happened several Times in the Past. Then I am gone for Months or Years. And maybe if WG does something that piques my Interest I might come back and Play again. Sometimes Leaving again a short time after and sometimes staying around for Months or Years again.

WG is a Company. They cant cater to a small Group that wont Pay the Bills. They need to Cater to the Average Player unfortunately.

I Personally would like if they did the Balancing based on the Above Average Players so Ships Traits are less likely to become utterly OP if they got Gimmicks or Traits that are too Complicated for the Average Player to use. Or utterly useless if they got a Trait that gives a slight advantage automaticly.

But as long as I got Fun I may Complain about it. (In a much more Polite, Detailed and Reasonable Way than the People in this Topic that wont even Play the Class that they constantly make claims about) but if it gets Ignored. I am not gonna do anything about it. If I dont have Fun anymore. I will actually often not Complain at all and just Leave lol.

 

[coolrunings_99]

15 hours ago, Sunleader said:

Likewise a DD would likely not Enjoy it much if he was Spotted at the same Distance as a Battleship. (because thats how it is in Reality) and would then likely be Destroyed by but a Single Hit from a BB Caliber HE Shell tearing half the Ship into Pieces.

USS Johnston, its crew and commander sent its regards from Davy Jones locker

[Sunleader]

51 minutes ago, coolrunings_99 said:

USS Johnston, its crew and commander sent its regards from Davy Jones locker

 

Johnston Survived 3 Battleship Caliber AP Shells. Not HE Shells.

The Shells Overpenetrated Johnston.

Hence why Johnston Survived the Hits.

 

Mind You. Even tough it was Overpenetrations. The Damages were still massive. With Johnston effectively having half the Ships System no longer Operable. Being Limited to 17 Knots of Speed and half her Guns no longer Working.

 

[coolrunings_99]

yup, but there were on the minus side some cruisers and DDs there as well, shooting, while on the plus side there was some CV cover as well😉😎..let us shift this to CV thread then, since there were no subs around😁.

Really not trying to nitpick, only offered it as an example of ‘screw coping, lets do some fighting’

[BLUB__BLUB]

4 hours ago, Sunleader said:

Well. So we dont Really Disagree all that much. Except that I am more Accepting of what WG does.

This is Fine Really.

Taste is a Personal thing after all.

Yes. We agree on a lot of things, I think most of them. 

 

4 hours ago, Sunleader said:

Dont get me Wrong. I as well Like Immersion. I am just not as Strict on alot of Stuff. So I can Enjoy this even with alot of Fantasy added into it.

I from the Start am not that bothered with Realism or History unless its a Game that is actually a Simulation and I play it for that Simulation.

That is the thing indeed. As long as I can turn off the (in my view) monstrosities it's great. 

When it starts affecting gameplay mechanics, then - to me - it is an issue. And that is what happens with subs.

 

4 hours ago, Sunleader said:

From my Viewpoint. I actually Loved the Steampunk Deathmatches with the Destroyers where the Map would get ever Smaller.

I liked the event - did not like the steampunk part of it. 

To me, that is a separate game. Like, but would not play it much. 

 

4 hours ago, Sunleader said:

I also Loved the Events where we got the more Futuristic Ships for the Deathmatch where you had to gather Loot and then Escape into the Portal in the Middle or get dragged into a Deathmatch at the end.

I would totally Support them making these Permanent. Even tough they are complete Fantasy Setting.

Yes, but I'd like them to be a separate game (mode). 
And I would only play it if friends asked me to. 

 

4 hours ago, Sunleader said:

Likewise I dont mind Paperships and even made up Ships. Because I just want to have Fun in the Game.

I do not mind those as much. Unless it is some sort of Russian bias, which is annoying but also kinda funny (Petro...). 
But those ships still have known and accepted mechanics. 

 

4 hours ago, Sunleader said:

I would Prefer Proper Fire and Forget Acoustic Torpedoes over the current Ping Mechanic. Just like I would Prefer no Divetime Limit. But I will just Deal with both.

I am actually Annoyed that BBs are the Best Submarine Hunters. But well. I am just gonna Deal with it as long as it Remains Fun.

Those are things that I do not like as well. Proper acoustic torpedoes, yes please - they can home in on the 'sound' of engines. 

The countermeasure would also be simple, you'd GO SLOW. And that also would be as per real life. Even nowadays ships have 'silent mode'. 

As for divetime, this increased in later years, but this should be 'realistic' too. When under water, air should be used up, and when surfaced, it should be replenished. 
Later subs (T8, T10) should get a 'snorkel' and be able to maintain air levels. That is what I mean, if 'realistic'  is possible, it enhances immersion. 

So, similar, yes BBs being the best hunters is a real dealbreaker for me. I hate it. Even in GTA5, wanna ram something, get the fattest vehicle, it has larger impact, makes sense.

Same as the automated CV reaction (they should be able to swap a squadron for ASW squadron). Things should still be "sensible", even in arcade.

 

It is not like WeeGee was not handed any good "sensible" ideas. They just chose to do something else. 
The ping is simply so subs can shoot other subs. But now they have made it so subs a cannot even detect the other sub... ridiculous!

There is a lot of "WeeGee I told you so" going on. And most of it ruins the game. They have even removed team damage for it. 

 

4 hours ago, Sunleader said:

And well.

Here is the Thing.

I am Simple in this.

If I get Bored with the Game or its not Fun anymore for a Different Reason. I Simply Quit. Happened several Times in the Past. Then I am gone for Months or Years. And maybe if WG does something that piques my Interest I might come back and Play again. Sometimes Leaving again a short time after and sometimes staying around for Months or Years again.

I am not really same. Some games I really liked and I played them until they died. 

Usually I play one or two games, and then I play them a lot.

 

4 hours ago, Sunleader said:

WG is a Company. They cant cater to a small Group that wont Pay the Bills. They need to Cater to the Average Player unfortunately.

I Personally would like if they did the Balancing based on the Above Average Players so Ships Traits are less likely to become utterly OP if they got Gimmicks or Traits that are too Complicated for the Average Player to use. Or utterly useless if they got a Trait that gives a slight advantage automaticly.

I think that would be much better for the game. Better games also make better money. 
It is not like with cars, that they make money off them because of parts and garage, years after production. 

 

4 hours ago, Sunleader said:

But as long as I got Fun I may Complain about it. (In a much more Polite, Detailed and Reasonable Way than the People in this Topic that wont even Play the Class that they constantly make claims about) but if it gets Ignored. I am not gonna do anything about it. If I dont have Fun anymore. I will actually often not Complain at all and just Leave lol.

Yeah some of those people are really... well... 

But also, I see why they are complaining, it is not because a certain mechanic is too powerful. 
Most of the reason is the mechanic is perceived as "stupid" or unfair - as such the damage that this mechanic does is unacceptable. 

Does that make "these people" right? Well no, because of 'wrong reason', but also yes, because 'correct complaint'. 

Because even if you do not know exactly why, you can still be right when you say THIS SUCKS. 

[Schelfie]

18 hours ago, SurfaceFish said:

How many people would play them if WG removed the pinging and homing, they are slow, have no guns to fight other ships like destroyers.

GOOD! Let them go extinctr then. Good riddance and no one will miss them...