General Submarines related discussions

[Sunleader]

10 minutes ago, Tanaka_15 said:

I know, the urge of WG for new players has no limits, but we all know that. 

 

And Now Mate.

Pls Explain to me what, aside from Graphical Visuals which like the Spaceship Skin for Des Moines has no effect on Gameplay, actually is the difference between an Orbital Laser Firing a Barrage at a Target and a Dutch Cruiser Ordering an Airstrike on that Target.

 

 

Weapon A the Orbital Laser Strike.

Range of Targeting 12km

Delay of Impact 15 Seconds.

12 Satellite Lasers fire 6 Shots each.

Each Shot has a Penetration of 34.3mm with a Fire Chance of 33% and an Alpha Damage of 5800.

The Cruiser gets 2 Charges and Reloading a Charge takes 100 Seconds :)

 

Weapon B the Dutch Cruiser Airstrike on T8

Range of Targeting 12km

Delay of Impact 15 Seconds.

12 Aircraft drop 6 Bombs each.

Each Bomb has a Penetration of 34.3mm with a Fire Chance of 33% and an Alpha Damage of 5800.

The Cruiser gets 2 Charges and Reloading a Charge takes 100 Seconds :)

 

 

 

[Bear__Necessities]

I haven't played a game for 50 days. Then played 2. Noo subs or CV's in either game. And I still stopped after 2 games because of general wtf'ness . Maybe ya'll should just chill. I have. 201 pages of roundabouts and going nowhere fast. 

[lup3s]

5 hours ago, Sunleader said:

-----

 

Stop assuming you know how or what I think.

 

"Guided missiles sound scary" because they are guided; it's in the name.

Maybe stop sprouting walls of text and actually read / think.

 

 

[Sunleader]

2 minutes ago, lup3s said:

 

Stop assuming you know how or what I think.

 

"Guided missiles sound scary" because they are guided; it's in the name.

Maybe stop sprouting walls of text and actually read / think.

 

 

 

And You think because its called Guided Missile it must be Homing in the Game ?

Who will Enforce that ?

 

You likely never tought about it.

But most T10 Ships in the Game have Radar Guided Fire Control.

But do you get any more Aiming Assistance than on T5 ?

 

 

Maybe You should read properly instead of going for personal remarks ?

 

[lup3s]

3 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

 

And You think because its called Guided Missile it must be Homing in the Game ?

Who will Enforce that ?

 

You likely never tought about it.

But most T10 Ships in the Game have Radar Guided Fire Control.

But do you get any more Aiming Assistance than on T5 ?

 

 

Maybe You should read properly instead of going for personal remarks ?

 

 

You likely never thought about it, but Submarines have guided torpedoes in the game; they use a ping to direct the torpedo to the target.

 

What does Radar Guided Fire Control have to do with guided missiles ?

Are you confused because both use the word "guided" ?

[Tanaka_15]

2 hours ago, Sunleader said:

 

And Now Mate.

Pls Explain to me what, aside from Graphical Visuals which like the Spaceship Skin for Des Moines has no effect on Gameplay, actually is the difference between an Orbital Laser Firing a Barrage at a Target and a Dutch Cruiser Ordering an Airstrike on that Target.

 

 

Weapon A the Orbital Laser Strike.

Range of Targeting 12km

Delay of Impact 15 Seconds.

12 Satellite Lasers fire 6 Shots each.

Each Shot has a Penetration of 34.3mm with a Fire Chance of 33% and an Alpha Damage of 5800.

The Cruiser gets 2 Charges and Reloading a Charge takes 100 Seconds :)

 

Weapon B the Dutch Cruiser Airstrike on T8

Range of Targeting 12km

Delay of Impact 15 Seconds.

12 Aircraft drop 6 Bombs each.

Each Bomb has a Penetration of 34.3mm with a Fire Chance of 33% and an Alpha Damage of 5800.

The Cruiser gets 2 Charges and Reloading a Charge takes 100 Seconds :)

 

 

 

You are right both mechanics ale uqally stupid, but orbital strike like godzillla brake my immerison more, thatys why i play this game less and less. To much stupid immersion breaking stuff is added. 

 

And ofc dutch crusiers, like hybird bbs, cvs and subs makes game less fun to play and this is other problem. In the end i do finde playing forum game way more fun than acutall game at this point. 

 

[Sunleader]

35 minutes ago, lup3s said:

 

You likely never thought about it, but Submarines have guided torpedoes in the game; they use a ping to direct the torpedo to the target.

 

What does Radar Guided Fire Control have to do with guided missiles ?

Are you confused because both use the word "guided" ?

 

1.

Well. Here is Your First Problem.

Any Weapon that is not Unguided. Is Guided.

But Guided can mean anything from Radar Guidance of the Gun Firing it, over Full Remote Control after Launch down to Electronic Radio Control or Independent Homing Guidance.

And Guidance is not only Referencing to the Ammunition. Guidance can also be Provided Purely

 

And here You can Actually see something Interesting.

Because You See.

The Torpedoes the Submarines are Supposed to have are Actually Acoustic Homing Torpedoes.

This is an Independent Fire and Forget Weapon that would Home in on Targets without any Input on side of the Launch Platform.

 

But in the Game instead we have a weird Guided Torpedo that is more Akin to a Radio Controlled Guided Bomb. With the Launchplatform keeping the Target Marked and the Weapon going for this Target.

 

As You Surely Notice.

These 2 got nothing to do with each other.

And in Reality the Name Guided doesnt even pop up.

WG made up this Mechanic without any Guided Naming lol.

Nobody even Expected them to Add Homing Torpedoes which only Germany actually used anyways.

 

They just did that themselves.

Funny enough. Guided Bombs like the Fritz X (Which is often called the Worlds First Anti Ship Missile) could easily be added to the Game as well.

Without any Cold War Stuff even coming up :)

 

But likewise. Adding Cold War Era Ships doesnt mean You get Fully Guided Missiles.

You could just as well get what I Explained which is Still a Guided Weapon by the Way. Because the Missile is Guided onto a Target.

Just that the Target is a Predicted Position of an Enemy Ship not the Enemy Ship itself.

 

 

Again.

Reality and the Game do not Play by the same Rules.

 

 

2.

Radar Guided Fire Control means that normally. These Ships would be Able to Target and Fire at Targets they cannot actually See.

The Radar Locks an Enemy Target and Provides a Firing Solution for that Target to the Guns.

Practically. Ships with such Capabilities would not really care about Smokescreens. They could Still Target a Ship in Smoke without Issue.

 

 

 

27 minutes ago, Tanaka_15 said:

You are right both mechanics ale uqally stupid, but orbital strike like godzillla brake my immerison more, thatys why i play this game less and less. To much stupid immersion breaking stuff is added. 

 

And ofc dutch crusiers, like hybird bbs, cvs and subs makes game less fun to play and this is other problem. In the end i do finde playing forum game way more fun than acutall game at this point. 

 

 

Problem is. This is YOUR Opinion.

But WG doesnt care about that. WG cares about what will bring it the most Money.

And well. Over the last 10 Years they were Hella Efficient on that.

 

 

 

 

[SmegTheNoob]

Actually, probably 80% of Submarine torpedoes in WW2 were of the UNGUIDED TYPE.

IE they had to be pre-programmed with the target ships speed and course.

Once they were fired, that was it. If the target ship altered its speed and or course. Then the chances are, the torpedoes would miss.

 

Which funny enough, is the exact same torpedo mechanic that is on every other surface ship in the game that is equipped with torpedoes.

With the exception of CV's and Submarines.

 

Submarines should have the same torpedo mechanic as every other ship, period!!!!!

[Sunleader]

7 minutes ago, SmegTheNoob said:

Actually, probably 80% of Submarine torpedoes in WW2 were of the UNGUIDED TYPE.

IE they had to be pre-programmed with the target ships speed and course.

Once they were fired, that was it. If the target ship altered its speed and or course. Then the chances are, the torpedoes would miss.

 

This is Technically a True Statement. But its also completely Wrong when Considering the Games Situation.

 

Because in Reality. Torpedoes from Submarines were most of the Time Fired against Ships not currently in Cruising or Traveling Mode.

Meaning they did not know they were even being Targeted.

 

The T4 and T5 Acoustic Homing Torpedoes were Specifically Developed to Fight Enemy Warships like Destroyers and Frigates instead.

And when Available were used in that Purpose.

 

 

Its like Demanding Infatry in a Tank Game is Equipped with only Rifles because they had Majorly Rifles.

Yes they Did. But they would not use Rifles against Tanks. Against Tanks they would use the Rarer Anti Tank Weapons :)

 

 

Also. Funny enough. The Homing Torpedoes were also Fired and that was it.

Afterwards they would look for Targets themselves and would require no further Input from the Submarine *gg*

 

 

7 minutes ago, SmegTheNoob said:

Which funny enough, is the exact same torpedo mechanic that is on every other surface ship in the game that is equipped with torpedoes.

With the exception of CV's and Submarines.

 

CVs do not have Guided or Homing Torpedoes. They use the same Mechanic as Ships. Just that they can Drop Torpedoes Close thanks to the Aircraft.

 

 

7 minutes ago, SmegTheNoob said:

Submarines should have the same torpedo mechanic as every other ship, period!!!!!

Which would also mean Submarines would get the much higher Alpha Damage of other Ships Torpedoes.

Thus being able to Pretty much Towshot or even Oneshot the Battleships they Meet *gg*

 

Funny enough. Alot of Submarine Players would Love this. Because they never even use the Ping anyways.

But You of course think it would be a Nerf because You never Play Submarines xD

 

 

[SmegTheNoob]

1 minute ago, Sunleader said:

 

This is Technically a True Statement. But its also completely Wrong when Considering the Games Situation.

 

Because in Reality. Torpedoes from Submarines were most of the Time Fired against Ships not currently in Cruising or Traveling Mode.

Meaning they did not know they were even being Targeted.

 

The T4 and T5 Acoustic Homing Torpedoes were Specifically Developed to Fight Enemy Warships like Destroyers and Frigates instead.

And when Available were used in that Purpose.

 

 

Its like Demanding Infatry in a Tank Game is Equipped with only Rifles because they had Majorly Rifles.

Yes they Did. But they would not use Rifles against Tanks. Against Tanks they would use the Rarer Anti Tank Weapons :)

 

 

Also. Funny enough. The Homing Torpedoes were also Fired and that was it.

Afterwards they would look for Targets themselves and would require no further Input from the Submarine *gg*

 

 

 

CVs do not have Guided or Homing Torpedoes. They use the same Mechanic as Ships. Just that they can Drop Torpedoes Close thanks to the Aircraft.

 

 

Which would also mean Submarines would get the much higher Alpha Damage of other Ships Torpedoes.

Thus being able to Pretty much Towshot or even Oneshot the Battleships they Meet *gg*

 

Funny enough. Alot of Submarine Players would Love this. Because they never even use the Ping anyways.

But You of course think it would be a Nerf because You never Play Submarines xD

 

 

I did say except CV's and Subs.

 

Oh and it wouldn't bother me if Subs had the same torp mechanic as surface ships, with the same damage.

As long as the damage output matched the tier of the Sub.

EG, no tier 6 Sub should get torp damage that a tier 8 DD gets.

It should be the same damage of the same tier from the same nation.

 

 

[Sunleader]

5 minutes ago, SmegTheNoob said:

I did say except CV's and Subs.

 

Oh and it wouldn't bother me if Subs had the same torp mechanic as surface ships, with the same damage.

As long as the damage output matched the tier of the Sub.

EG, no tier 6 Sub should get torp damage that a tier 8 DD gets.

It should be the same damage of the same tier from the same nation.

 

 

 

Well. So Basicly You want the same thing as most of the Submarine Lovers that dont care for Balance and just Want Submarines to be as OP as Possible lol

You sure You are not Secretely a Submarine Lover that wants them Buffed ? ^^

 

 

 

[NewHorizons_1]

48 minutes ago, SmegTheNoob said:

Submarines should have the same torpedo mechanic as every other ship, period!!!!!

I wouldn't mind homing torps so much if it wasn't for the laughably bad "counter measure" of using DCP.

If there was an Acoustic Decoy consumable, with unlimited charges, that could then be balanced against a sonar ping and would probably be perceived as being fairer.

Plus, as @Sunleader implies below, sonar pings are a way for sub players to draw attention to themselves & potentially give their position away.

Good players would probably rely on stealth and unguided torps to catch an enemy ship by surprise.

27 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

Alot of Submarine Players would Love this. Because they never even use the Ping anyways.

 

[SmegTheNoob]

1 hour ago, Sunleader said:

 

Well. So Basicly You want the same thing as most of the Submarine Lovers that dont care for Balance and just Want Submarines to be as OP as Possible lol

You sure You are not Secretely a Submarine Lover that wants them Buffed ? ^^

 

 

 

I don't think they would be OP. Except in the hands of an expert.

I have had instances where a Sub used non homing torps against me.

But most of the time, they were used at range, and I found it easier to avoid them.

 

Plus I would say that the majority of players that love and play Submarines, do so purely because of the homing torp gimmick.

Like I have said before. Wargaming had to give them a wild gimmick, or lots of players just would not play them.

[Sunleader]

21 minutes ago, SmegTheNoob said:

I don't think they would be OP. Except in the hands of an expert.

I have had instances where a Sub used non homing torps against me.

But most of the time, they were used at range, and I found it easier to avoid them.

 

Plus I would say that the majority of players that love and play Submarines, do so purely because of the homing torp gimmick.

Like I have said before. Wargaming had to give them a wild gimmick, or lots of players just would not play them.

 

1.

Well of Course You did.

Because right now Subs only got the Super Weak Homing Torps that Deal very little Damage.

Or the Super Slow non Homing Torps that still do less Damage than DD Torpedoes and are Ridiculously Slow and Easy to Evade.

Meaning that Right now. Submarines are Actively Forced to use mostly Homing Torps.

Thats why I-56 is so Strong. It has fairly Strong and Fast Torpedoes and thus doesnt need the Homing Gimmick. Meaning most I-56 Players never use the Homing because its not worth it if you got actually usable Torps.

 

Again. Thats the Problem because You never Play Submarines Yourself so You dont See the Problems and Tradeoffs at all. Thus completely Misjudging what Submarines can do etc.

 

 

2.

HAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA

No.

Maybe Actually Read the Complaints from Submarine Players.

Most ask the stupid gimmick is removed and they get proper Torps instead.

 

[SmegTheNoob]

9 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

Again. Thats the Problem because You never Play Submarines Yourself so You dont See the Problems and Tradeoffs at all. Thus completely Misjudging what Submarines can do etc.

 

STOP BANGING ON ABOUT THE FACT THAT I DON'T PLAY SUBMARINES.

I WILL NEVER PLAY A SUBMARINE IN WORLD OF WARSHIPS.

DEAL WITH THAT FACT AND MOVE ON PAL.

IT'S GETTING BORING, YAWN YAWN YAWN.

 

I am sick and tired of your condescending, provoking, insulting answers.

[Sunleader]

5 minutes ago, SmegTheNoob said:

STOP BANGING ON ABOUT THE FACT THAT I DON'T PLAY SUBMARINES.

I WILL NEVER PLAY A SUBMARINE IN WORLD OF WARSHIPS.

DEAL WITH THAT FACT AND MOVE ON PAL.

IT'S GETTING BORING, YAWN YAWN YAWN.

 

I am sick and tired of your condescending, provoking, insulting answers.

 

And I am Tired of You Constantly Spreading Completely False Information due to You trying to Talk about Something that You never even made the Slightest Effort to Inform Yourself about Mate.

So as long as I got to Deal with You doing that. You better are Prepared to also Deal with me Constantly Telling You to Play Subs so You Learn why You are Wrong.

[SmegTheNoob]

6 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

 

And I am Tired of You Constantly Spreading Completely False Information due to You trying to Talk about Something that You never even made the Slightest Effort to Inform Yourself about Mate.

So as long as I got to Deal with You doing that. You better are Prepared to also Deal with me Constantly Telling You to Play Subs so You Learn why You are Wrong.

Don't call me MATE.

[Yosha_AtaIante]

I recommend you speed the video up to 1,25x or more

11 easy sub kills in all kinds of different situations. They are clearly hard to deal with

[SmegTheNoob]

20 minutes ago, Zuihou_Kai_Ni said:

I recommend you speed the video up to 1,25x or more

11 easy sub kills in all kinds of different situations. They are clearly hard to deal with

Not sure what your point is with that video.

Most of your examples were with a Smaland.

Are they forward firing depth charges?

I have said before that higher tier DD's should have forward firing depth charges like the Hedgehog system.

It is a lot easier to deal with a sub with forward firing charges.

Although the true hedgehog system fired a series of bombs in one go, in an oval pattern.

 

I also noted that in most of those examples where you were dropping depth charges onto a sub, you were not taking enemy fire while you were doing it.

I find that a lot of the time, if I try to chase down a sub to drop charges on it. I just end up putting myself in the firing line of enemy ships.

[Yosha_AtaIante]

7 minutes ago, SmegTheNoob said:

I find that a lot of the time, if I try to chase down a sub to drop charges on it. I just end up putting myself in the firing line of enemy ships.

That is why I choose where and when to engage them. I don't try to kill them or chase them if that kills me. Btw the last clip I think shows me in Shima engaging a sub that has support and I did it because i was 100% confident I can pull it off with negligible damage to myself by his supporting ships. The general rule of engaging subs is to only do it if you know you can get away with it. None of the games in the examples of the video were losses either and in none of them I died while killing the sub.

The point of the video is to show how easy it is to catch and kill them if you know under which engagements you can afford to do so.

 

Also to show how harmless subs are in a controlled environment. None of them even hit a torp on me

[Bear__Necessities]

6 hours ago, Zuihou_Kai_Ni said:

The general rule of engaging subs is to only do it if you know you can get away with it.

Sometimes you don't have a choice. Which is why general rules suck. There are no rules anymore in this wild west of a game 

[KHETTIFER]

8 hours ago, Zuihou_Kai_Ni said:

I recommend you speed the video up to 1,25x or more

11 easy sub kills in all kinds of different situations. They are clearly hard to deal with

Some nice cherry picked examples there, now show me how you deal with 2 subs in a division while in a vermont, while also being dropped by a CV and hunted by a DD!. Potatoes in a sub are quite easy to deal with yes, but a good player is a fecking nightmare, as they will wait until you are already occupied, you have no idea where they are until they ping you, and if they know what they are doing they move laterally to your position after launching torps and pinging you, you get no indication of direction(the ping marker isn't even accurate), so your asw is practically useless. It's fundamentally some of the worst game design i've seen in 30 years of gaming.

[BLUB__BLUB]

1 hour ago, KHETTIFER said:

you get no indication of direction(the ping marker isn't even accurate), so your asw is practically useless.

Well that is why you get 800m blast radius, because else indeed it would be totally useless.

 

1 hour ago, KHETTIFER said:

It's fundamentally some of the worst game design i've seen in 30 years of gaming.

You are right and that is ALSO why you get 800m blast radius... greeeeet ztrrronk balanz comrade 

[El2aZeR]

49 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

Well that is why you get 800m blast radius, because else indeed it would be totally useless.

 

Only ship dropped DCs get that. For air dropped ones the radius is 375m of which only 300m will actually deal damage.

Unless you're a CV, at which point you get 600m max with a 480m damage radius.

[Yosha_AtaIante]

3 hours ago, KHETTIFER said:

2 subs in a division while in a vermont, while also being dropped by a CV and hunted by a DD!

Yes, let's create the rarest type of weird situations which you assume I would get myself into.