General Submarines related discussions

[plain_average]

Can we please get rid of torps magically homing after being pinged.

 

i.e. Keep the current mechanic - ping, fire torps - torps home. The other way around is just silly and have 0 realism - and even if this game have very little realism - no need to make magical mechanic because sub players could not handle normal torps.

 

It quickly gets tiresome when you have dodged the torps from a sub and the sub pings you again and the torps do a 45 degree turn and broadsides you.

 

I hate subs as much the average player I guess - but this particular mechanic is just silly - imagine BB's being able to fire shots at a ship and then when they see the ship dodges, they click a magic button and the shells homes in and hits the ship anyway.

 

I would imagine there would be quite the rage about this.

 

[Cuddly_Spider]

1 hour ago, plain_average said:

It quickly gets tiresome when you have dodged the torps from a sub and the sub pings you again and the torps do a 45 degree turn and broadsides you.

 

What's happening there is the sub has fired two spreads of torps at you (he probably fired from the front and then turned and shot his rear torps after).

 

When torps have missed you don't need to be worried about them coming back in at you - they're nowhere near agile enough.

 

To avoid the scenario you're facing simply assume that the sub that fired at you has you in its sights and will come at you again. You can either defeat the sub, put yourself out of its range, or continue to dodge and occupy its attention.

[plain_average]

45 minutes ago, Cuddly_Spider said:

To avoid the scenario you're facing simply assume that the sub that fired at you has you in its sights and will come at you again. You can either defeat the sub, put yourself out of its range, or continue to dodge and occupy its attention.

 

Well dodging is not as easy always - and when you are alone with the sub and dodged by turning, and the torps are still in front of you - but you can see they will not hit you - at that point the sub pings you again and the torps start homing towards you - and in this case dodgning is not always an option.

 

Which is why the mechanic should be removed - its extremely unrealistic and requires post ww2 eletronics to reacquire a target lock. And not only that - it makes it hard to dodge if you are chasing down a sub which you need to do sometimes.

 

And P.S. please remove map spotting for subs as well - its silly that a sub can keep you spotted for the team and you are unable to run away/go dark because you cannot outrun the sub. Subs should only be able to spot if they are on the surface, otherwise their spotting should be for themselved only.

 

Edit: Also whoever that said that ASW are powerful against subs - I beg to differ:

 

It took 11 hits, two floodings to kill a tier 6 sub.

[Cuddly_Spider]

1 hour ago, plain_average said:

 

Well dodging is not as easy always - and when you are alone with the sub and dodged by turning, and the torps are still in front of you - but you can see they will not hit you - at that point the sub pings you again and the torps start homing towards you - and in this case dodgning is not always an option.

 

Dodging a load of battleship shells isn't easy. Dealing with a cruiser nailing you with a constant barrage isn't easy. Feeling HE and fire spam from a DD sitting in smoke isn't easy.

 

The fact it's not easy doesn't mean it's broken.

 

1 hour ago, plain_average said:

 

Which is why the mechanic should be removed - its extremely unrealistic and requires post ww2 eletronics to reacquire a target lock. And not only that - it makes it hard to dodge if you are chasing down a sub which you need to do sometimes.

 

 

Realism isn't a part of the game.

[plain_average]

21 minutes ago, Cuddly_Spider said:

Realism isn't a part of the game.

No, but lets give other ships the same skill then - to reacquire a target after the target has dodged.

[SmegTheNoob]

22 minutes ago, Cuddly_Spider said:

 

Dodging a load of battleship shells isn't easy. Dealing with a cruiser nailing you with a constant barrage isn't easy. Feeling HE and fire spam from a DD sitting in smoke isn't easy.

 

The fact it's not easy doesn't mean it's broken.

 

 

Realism isn't a part of the game.

Yet more excuses to try to say that Subs in this game are a good thing.

NO THEY AIN'T.

[Yosha_AtaIante]

Just now, SmegTheNoob said:

Yet more excuses to try to say that Subs in this game are a good thing.

NO THEY AIN'T.

Does it matter at this point? WG is about to release a premium t10 sub and a new sub tech tree line 

[SmegTheNoob]

1 minute ago, Zuihou_Kai_Ni said:

Does it matter at this point? WG is about to release a premium t10 sub and a new sub tech tree line 

Which just proves that Wargaming only listen to the sound of coins dropping into a hopper, and that yet again they DO NOT LISTEN TO THEIR OWN PLAYER BASE.

 

[Yosha_AtaIante]

3 minutes ago, SmegTheNoob said:

Which just proves that Wargaming only listen to the sound of coins dropping into a hopper, and that yet again they DO NOT LISTEN TO THEIR OWN PLAYER BASE.

 

I told you this for so long but you just don't want to believe me 

[plain_average]

3 minutes ago, SmegTheNoob said:

Which just proves that Wargaming only listen to the sound of coins dropping into a hopper, and that yet again they DO NOT LISTEN TO THEIR OWN PLAYER BASE.

 

True - but if people had any common sense they would stop playing this class entirely, but apparently there are people that like to act like griefers inside the game - just like CV.

Until the players stop playing the class it will stay - but stopping playing it might make it worse because that might WG take as the class needs a buff - where in fact it should have some of its gimmicks tweaked so they were less unrealistic.

[JohnMac79]

On 2/12/2023 at 4:22 PM, Cuddly_Spider said:

Realism isn't a part of the game.

 

Yet WG quote realism time and time again....

[Sunleader]

8 hours ago, SmegTheNoob said:

Which just proves that Wargaming only listen to the sound of coins dropping into a hopper, and that yet again they DO NOT LISTEN TO THEIR OWN PLAYER BASE.

 

 

8 hours ago, Zuihou_Kai_Ni said:

I told you this for so long but you just don't want to believe me 

 

 

Both of these Comments are Right and both of these Comments are Wrong.

Mostly Because the Definitions You take is Wrong.

 

Because the Sound of Coins Dropping into the Hopper is in Fact the Voice of the Playerbase. Guess what. WG is Selling a Game. And its not the BMW Owners Club Paying for this Game. But the Playerbase of the Game. 

Or to put it a bit differently. The so called "Silent Majority" which Votes with their Wallets and which gives less than a wet stinking crab about the irrelevant echochamber that calls itself the Forum.

 

As such. The Claim that WG would only listen to Money and not the Playerbase is both Right and Wrong because the Playerbase is the one giving WG Money.

 

[FloatingTarget]

14 hours ago, Sunleader said:

 

 

 

Both of these Comments are Right and both of these Comments are Wrong.

Mostly Because the Definitions You take is Wrong.

 

Because the Sound of Coins Dropping into the Hopper is in Fact the Voice of the Playerbase. Guess what. WG is Selling a Game. And its not the BMW Owners Club Paying for this Game. But the Playerbase of the Game. 

Or to put it a bit differently. The so called "Silent Majority" which Votes with their Wallets and which gives less than a wet stinking crab about the irrelevant echochamber that calls itself the Forum.

 

As such. The Claim that WG would only listen to Money and not the Playerbase is both Right and Wrong because the Playerbase is the one giving WG Money.

 

Still trying to convince people that subs are good I see? How's it going? Any success?

 

(Edit) When focused by a Sub or CV I just get up and get something to drink, I can't be bothered anymore and the outcome is the same.

[Hujoster]

Im so thired of WG:s coin making idiotism. 3 subs per side, no DD:s! Thats just Bull.... Then there is tier X sub who just comes to our cap, no one sees him, find him but he can sunk 3 battle ships just like that.

If WG:s goal is make wows like wot, that there is no point have skills, because i dont matter, you are in excellent road. 

Nerf, buff, nerf, buff, why?

Bigger maps, and some sence to those subs. 13 hits with should sunk it.

 

Or maby WG just want people to go play Warthunder

[Sunleader]

3 hours ago, FloatingTarget said:

Still trying to convince people that subs are good I see? How's it going? Any success?

 

Inside the Forum ?

Yeah Not happening. Haters gonna Hate ya know.

 

Inside the Game ?

Swimmingly. People Play Submarines like Crazy. Seems the Playerbase Loves them. Unlike CVs which barely anyone Plays. Submarines are everywhere :)

 

Quote

(Edit) When focused by a Sub or CV I just get up and get something to drink, I can't be bothered anymore and the outcome is the same.

 

l2p :)

[FloatingTarget]

1 hour ago, Sunleader said:

 

Inside the Forum ?

Yeah Not happening. Haters gonna Hate ya know.

 

Inside the Game ?

Swimmingly. People Play Submarines like Crazy. Seems the Playerbase Loves them. Unlike CVs which barely anyone Plays. Submarines are everywhere :)

 

 

l2p :)

 

Lol, if that is true (which I question as I see plenty of CVs) what does that tell you? I know what it tells me. It tells me that the players who like to play one type of broken grief machine are migrating or trying out another broken grief machine. Also, maybe, just maybe the players here on this forum play World Of Warships too? Have you considered that the hate against subs here may be a sample of the general ire overall?

 

And yea man, I got it all figured out. Next time I'll activate my ships shield to absorb the unavoidable magic torpedoes and then send out my hunter seeker missiles to target and destroy the enemy who I can't see but keeps pinging me and spamming me with torpedoes every nano-second. Easy peasy. 

[Sam726627]

I've come to the forum for the first time simply to add that I detest Subs, and politely state that I am yearning for a no subs feature or at the very least no homing torps. 

 

Every time I random battle and have to share a flank with a Sub instead of a DD I feel like I might as well just scuttle my ship and save myself the grief of trying to defend or aggressive. My most frustrating gaming moment of the last 24 years of gaming has come from lategame being in BB being tag teamed by 2x Subs constantly pinging with torps, I'm sorry if you want to take offence. But I feel at the very least Subs need to have homing torps sent into the pits of hell.

 

I can respect being killed by a DD captain who takes advantage of a positioning mistake flying 100m under detection to get a perfect crossing salvo off. Or any other surface captain. 

 

I can't respect a captain who isn't targetable 95% of the time, has ******** detection mechanics even if he is surfaced, has a broken speed on surface and underwater, able to ping faster than a BB reloads, and can harass you outside of depth charge range, god forbid there are two of them and you have a epileptic fit from all the aimbot pinging. I'm sure some people enjoy Subs, but I also imagine these are the same people who enjoy griefing in games with god mode enabled. Of course I've sunk subs, but think how often does a Sub actually survive concentrated efforts to sink her? Especially in the late game? Far too often imho.

 

How can a boat that doesn't really take place in a battleline situation find itself in this game? CV I know got a load of grief but at least CVs can make the argument for being there. Personally I found CVs too easy and not much fun. How can subs still exist in the current state with updates for more faction Subs when they're so universally detested by everyone that doesn't breath out their mouths? 

 

I won't return back to the forum, and therefore won't accept critique on my thoughts, good luck and fair seas 

[SmegTheNoob]

10 hours ago, Sam726627 said:

I've come to the forum for the first time simply to add that I detest Subs, and politely state that I am yearning for a no subs feature or at the very least no homing torps. 

 

Every time I random battle and have to share a flank with a Sub instead of a DD I feel like I might as well just scuttle my ship and save myself the grief of trying to defend or aggressive. My most frustrating gaming moment of the last 24 years of gaming has come from lategame being in BB being tag teamed by 2x Subs constantly pinging with torps, I'm sorry if you want to take offence. But I feel at the very least Subs need to have homing torps sent into the pits of hell.

 

I can respect being killed by a DD captain who takes advantage of a positioning mistake flying 100m under detection to get a perfect crossing salvo off. Or any other surface captain. 

 

I can't respect a captain who isn't targetable 95% of the time, has ******** detection mechanics even if he is surfaced, has a broken speed on surface and underwater, able to ping faster than a BB reloads, and can harass you outside of depth charge range, god forbid there are two of them and you have a epileptic fit from all the aimbot pinging. I'm sure some people enjoy Subs, but I also imagine these are the same people who enjoy griefing in games with god mode enabled. Of course I've sunk subs, but think how often does a Sub actually survive concentrated efforts to sink her? Especially in the late game? Far too often imho.

 

How can a boat that doesn't really take place in a battleline situation find itself in this game? CV I know got a load of grief but at least CVs can make the argument for being there. Personally I found CVs too easy and not much fun. How can subs still exist in the current state with updates for more faction Subs when they're so universally detested by everyone that doesn't breath out their mouths? 

 

I won't return back to the forum, and therefore won't accept critique on my thoughts, good luck and fair seas 

This is a perfect example of how Wargaming are driving players away from the game because of pathetic Submarines.

I would suggest to him that he goes away from Random Battles, and play other game modes.

But after an upcoming update, Wargaming in their warped mind, have decided to allow Submarines into Ranked Battles.

How the heck is the game supposed to be fun in Ranked when you allow both CV's and Subs into a game mode that can have only 6 players on each team?

[RamboCras]

Just got out of a game in a tier 8 BB, steamed up half behind an island, still quite safe distance from the cap.

 

Tier X sub pings me... all torps hit. I repair for the floods and start turning away.

 

I get like 1-2 hits form other ships, nothing major.

 

35 seconds later I am pinged again. Again, receive the full load of torps and game over for me. The sub reloads 6 torps faster than my BB can reload its main guns. So besides have Harry Potter magic torpedo's, they also have a Harry Potter Magic loading system. Torpedo's weigh like 1,5 ton, it took German submarines like 1,5 hr to reload, in WG sub 30 seconds with the right skills LOL.

 

Never saw the sub and he was right on my doorstep.

 

FYI, tier X subs vs tier 8-9 ships, our Sub killed 3, theirs killed 5 ships in a 15 min game. 

 

Now WG, explain to me again how this is fun for the game?

 

[Cuddly_Spider]

1 hour ago, RamboCras said:

Just got out of a game in a tier 8 BB, steamed up half behind an island, still quite safe distance from the cap.

 

Tier X sub pings me... all torps hit. I repair for the floods and start turning away.

 

I get like 1-2 hits form other ships, nothing major.

 

35 seconds later I am pinged again. Again, receive the full load of torps and game over for me. The sub reloads 6 torps faster than my BB can reload its main guns. So besides have Harry Potter magic torpedo's, they also have a Harry Potter Magic loading system. Torpedo's weigh like 1,5 ton, it took German submarines like 1,5 hr to reload, in WG sub 30 seconds with the right skills LOL.

 

 

How long does it take for a sub to reload all its torps?

 

How long does it then take for all those torps to reach you if it is out of ASW range?

 

I assure you, it's considerably longer than 35 seconds.

 

What were you doing during those minutes?

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

28 minutes ago, Cuddly_Spider said:

 

How long does it take for a sub to reload all its torps?

 

How long does it then take for all those torps to reach you if it is out of ASW range?

 

I assure you, it's considerably longer than 35 seconds.

 

What were you doing during those minutes?

How long does it take for a balao or german sub to reload its torps? Minutes seems like a gross overstatement as well.

[SmegTheNoob]

39 minutes ago, Cuddly_Spider said:

 

How long does it take for a sub to reload all its torps?

 

How long does it then take for all those torps to reach you if it is out of ASW range?

 

I assure you, it's considerably longer than 35 seconds.

 

What were you doing during those minutes?

U-69, U-190, U-2501 = 50 seconds, 50 seconds and 60 seconds.

Cachalot, Salmon, Balau = 42 seconds, 42 seconds and 40 seconds.

Those times do not include captain skills and flags etc.

 

So you are wrong. Reload time is not considerably longer than 35 seconds. It's a bit longer than that, but not that much.

 

Compare those torp reload times against some times of Damage Control on some battleships.

New Mexico = 80 seconds, N Carolina = 80seconds, Montana = 80 seconds.

 

You are also forgetting to mention the reload time of the sonar ping on Subs.

U-69 = 6.5 seconds, U-190 = 6.5 seconds, U-2501 = 6 seconds.

 

Oh and as for being outside ASW range. Well that is easy because a lot of ships only have 6km range of ASW.

What's the range of sonar pings and torps on Subs?

Well on a U-69 its 11.5km.

 

I think the real figures speak for themselves.

 

[Wackford]

U-190 is a frustrating experience!

I've had some fun playing the U-69 at tier 6, but all that seems to stop for me at tier 8 with the U-190. I just find it painful to use at this higher level, where you are often in T10 battles, where some ships can conduct ASW strikes from great distances. Make one mistake (like not anticipating that a destroyer might suddenly appear) and you're punished so heavily that you may be destroyed.

 

Compared to the U-69, I'm not sure if anything the U-190 gets is actually worthwhile. The extra health points are a necessity, but you don't gain anything from them. It's still effectively got no armor. The slightly faster speed on the surface is negligible in combat situations. The conventional torpedoes deal more damage, but their low range and slow speed means you have to be too close to use them. You get an extra rear torpedo and that's about the only good thing with this vessel.

 

IMO the U-190 could do with a buff. It would be something if they added a working snorkel at least. So not to be OP'd,  the visual detectability with snorkel up could be increased by 0.5 km or something, and may be make it visible on radar. As it is now, the U-190 seems to be chore to grind through on your way to getting the next tier sub.

[JohnMac79]

3 hours ago, Cuddly_Spider said:

 

How long does it take for a sub to reload all its torps?

 

How long does it then take for all those torps to reach you if it is out of ASW range?

 

 

Surely this takes the same time no matter how far you are? If they reload in X amount of time, it doesnt matter how far away you are, it still will arrive in approx X time.

[Spearhawk1969]

On 2/12/2023 at 2:26 PM, plain_average said:

Can we please get rid of torps magically homing after being pinged.

 

i.e. Keep the current mechanic - ping, fire torps - torps home. The other way around is just silly and have 0 realism - and even if this game have very little realism - no need to make magical mechanic because sub players could not handle normal torps.

 

It quickly gets tiresome when you have dodged the torps from a sub and the sub pings you again and the torps do a 45 degree turn and broadsides you.

 

I hate subs as much the average player I guess - but this particular mechanic is just silly - imagine BB's being able to fire shots at a ship and then when they see the ship dodges, they click a magic button and the shells homes in and hits the ship anyway.

 

I would imagine there would be quite the rage about this.

 

actually, if you want realism, the way torps worked was after the pitch of the engine it was targetted so once fired unless the engine changed pitch the torps went home.
BUT that required 3 or more working "radars". to pinpoint the origin of the engine

An acoustic torpedo is a torpedo that aims itself by listening for characteristic sounds of its target or by searching for it using sonar (acoustic homing).

 

However...good news, and I am sure WG will implement them (in years to come)....

Foxer was the code name for a British built acoustic decoy used to confuse German acoustic homing torpedoes