General Submarines related discussions

[Sunleader]

On 2/1/2023 at 9:11 PM, SmegTheNoob said:

But what if you cannot fight back against that Sub?

Say your in a slow BB at tier 5 or 6.

Your ASW Air Strike range is only 6 km, maybe less.

A Sub sits at 7 km from you and constantly ping / torps you.

What do you do?

 

I tell you what I do.

If there is 1 Sub on  each team, I note where our Sub spawns, because you can bet that  the enemy Sub will spawn opposite our Sub.

I then go and steer to the other side of the map, no matter where the rest of our team are going.

Its a bit harder if there are 2 Subs on each team though.

Now ain't that fun and engaging gameplay NOT?

 

Well. Since You Adamantly Refuse to Learn how to Deal with Submarines and cannot be bothered to make even the Slightest Effort to even Understand how they Work so You Realize that Everything You say is Bullcrab.

Your course of Action is Correct.

Of course that course of Action is completely Crab and You are being a drag on Your Team.

But every other Action would Require at least a Minimal Effort to actually Learn how Submarines work in the Game and Learn the Countermeasures.

An Effort obviously too Great for You to make.

 

 

[Panzer_Guido]

13 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

 

 

 

Also I dont think People in a Glasshouse should throw stones.

If I was some Statpadder who got over 1000 Games in Guilio Caesare (A Tier 5 BB so OP it was Removed from Circulation almost entirely and permanently now only appearing in super rare auctions at 10 times the Original Price or by Buying Hundreds of Santa Crates) I would be sinking into Ground from Shame lol. I would certainly not try to Statshame others or Accuse them of using an OP Ship to Pad their Stats lol

 

 

 

 

ships that I have same-ish WR & hundreds of games in:

 

Prinz Eugen

Duca d Abruzzi

Krohnstadt

Atago

Siegfried

...

 

me filthy stat padder :D Playing only those OP boats. Everybody knows Prinz Eugen is best boat and should be banned from game. 

 

 

[BLUB__BLUB]

1 hour ago, Panocek said:

Blame Germans for entertaining idea of guided torpedoes and then fielding these in, uh, 1943?

Yeah sure you can go 'historic' but it was quite a bit different.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G7es_torpedo

1943: ...saw limited use for trial and was rapidly phased out of service in favor of the later model that received a number of significant enhancements.

September 1943: ... However, despite some initial success, in particular sinking destroyers and corvettes, the Zaunkönigs effectiveness was quickly nullified by the introduction of a decoy known as Foxer noise maker. 

 

Also found: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G7e_torpedo

Falke worked much like a normal straight-running torpedo for the first 400 m (440 yd) of its run, after which its acoustic sensors became active and searched for a target. The sensitive sound-sensing equipment in Falke required the torpedo be as quiet as possible, hence it ran at only 37 km/h (20 kn); in addition, the firing U-boat was forced to stop its motors. The TIV was not an ordinary straight-running torpedo, it ran at 37 km/h (20 kn) for 7,500 m (8,200 yd) and was the world's first operational acoustic homing torpedo, since it was introduced in March 1943, the same month and year as the American Mk-24 "Mine" acoustic homing torpedo.

 

I don't mind guided torpedoes that much, except in WW2 (halfway!) there were only acoustic torpedoes.

Those sought the ship, they did not really aim for the track and calculate their own lead. 

Point is, they should be lots slower than the normal ones, and there should be a FOXER countermeasure (not using DCP...).
Normal torps should only be able to be fired from surface or periscope depth. The way it is done now is simply waaaaayyyy to much. 

[Sunleader]

4 minutes ago, Panzer_Guido said:

 

ships that I have same-ish WR & hundreds of games in:

 

Prinz Eugen

Duca d Abruzzi

Krohnstadt

Atago

Siegfried

...

 

me filthy stat padder :D Playing only those OP boats. Everybody knows Prinz Eugen is best boat and should be banned from game. 

 

 

 

Then Why dont You Show us the Stats of these 6 Ships :) ?

 

Show us your Stats from

Guilio Caesare

Prinz Eugen

Duca d Abruzzi

Krohnstadt

Atago

and Siegfried.

 

First Your Total Stats.

Then Your Solo Stats. ^^

 

The Number of Battles Played and the Corresponding Winrates Show something pretty Interesting. :)

 

 

I can Read Stats Mate *gg*

If you want to Fake stuff You need to put some more Effort into it.

[Sunleader]

1 minute ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

Yeah sure you can go 'historic' but it was quite a bit different.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G7es_torpedo

1943: ...saw limited use for trial and was rapidly phased out of service in favor of the later model that received a number of significant enhancements.

September 1943: ... However, despite some initial success, in particular sinking destroyers and corvettes, the Zaunkönigs effectiveness was quickly nullified by the introduction of a decoy known as Foxer noise maker. 

 

Also found: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G7e_torpedo

Falke worked much like a normal straight-running torpedo for the first 400 m (440 yd) of its run, after which its acoustic sensors became active and searched for a target. The sensitive sound-sensing equipment in Falke required the torpedo be as quiet as possible, hence it ran at only 37 km/h (20 kn); in addition, the firing U-boat was forced to stop its motors. The TIV was not an ordinary straight-running torpedo, it ran at 37 km/h (20 kn) for 7,500 m (8,200 yd) and was the world's first operational acoustic homing torpedo, since it was introduced in March 1943, the same month and year as the American Mk-24 "Mine" acoustic homing torpedo.

 

I don't mind guided torpedoes that much, except in WW2 (halfway!) there were only acoustic torpedoes.

Those sought the ship, they did not really aim for the track and calculate their own lead. 

Point is, they should be lots slower than the normal ones, and there should be a FOXER countermeasure (not using DCP...).
Normal torps should only be able to be fired from surface or periscope depth. The way it is done now is simply waaaaayyyy to much. 

 

Well.

Historic is all False in WoWs anyways.

 

Historically Submarines could be 500m away at Periscope Depth and would not be Spotted.

Pretty much all Ships would be Halfed in their Speed because the Speeds they got in the Game are Maximum Speeds at which the Engines would Break very Quickly and at which the Guns would not really be able to Target anything or even Reload Properly due to the Shaking of the Ship Crashing through the Sea.

 

 

In a Sense tough.

The Guided Torps Germany had were more Dangerous than what we got in Game.

Not only was a Single Torpedo often Enough to Sink or Cripple a Ship.

But these Torpedoes could just be Launched in the General Direction of Enemy Ships and would then Find a Target on their own.

It was an actual Fire and Forget Weapon.

And Firing them Revealed nothing about the Submarine because there was no need for any Sonar Ping Fantasy etc.

 

 

But to begin with.

I think what Pano was Referring to was that You should Blame Germans for coming up with the Idea and Fielding it.

Because that gave Wargaming the Idea that they could bring these into the Game xD

 

Not sure why WG isnt doing Hedgehog Launchers with the same pretext tough.

If all Nations Submarines get Guided Torps then all Nations DDs could also get Hedgehogs.

[Panocek]

11 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

Point is, they should be lots slower than the normal ones, and there should be a FOXER countermeasure (not using DCP...).
Normal torps should only be able to be fired from surface or periscope depth. The way it is done now is simply waaaaayyyy to much. 

And in this game guidance thingy yeets half the explosive payload from torpedo  Unguided torps also can't be launched from below periscope for like a year by now? 

 

Also consider throwing FOXER as part of DCP button. After all, you wouldn't bring firefighting equipment to a flood, nor you'd bring hoses and pumps to fix broken turbine or ammo hoists.

[Panzer_Guido]

11 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

 

Then Why dont You Show us the Stats of these 6 Ships :) ?

 

Show us your Stats from

Guilio Caesare

Prinz Eugen

Duca d Abruzzi

Krohnstadt

Atago

and Siegfried.

 

First Your Total Stats.

Then Your Solo Stats. ^^

 

The Number of Battles Played and the Corresponding Winrates Show something pretty Interesting. :)

 

 

I can Read Stats Mate *gg*

If you want to Fake stuff You need to put some more Effort into it.

so now only solo stats count. ok, make up some more rules by yourself ;)

 

but kudos for derailing it from the actual topic. Well done actually. 

[Sunleader]

6 minutes ago, Panzer_Guido said:

so now only solo stats count. ok, make up some more rules by yourself ;)

 

but kudos for derailing it from the actual topic. Well done actually. 

 

Oh ?

Running away that Quickly ? ^^

 

 

As for the Topic.

There really isnt a Topic.

Your Attempts at Pretending that Subs are Broken are even less Impressive than your attempts at statshaming others.

 

[Panocek]

13 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

Not sure why WG isnt doing Hedgehog Launchers with the same pretext tough.

If all Nations Submarines get Guided Torps then all Nations DDs could also get Hedgehogs.

Hedgehogs weren't that wunderwaffle of an ASW either, you still had to find the sub and still get very close and very personal to it, as it had not even 300m range IIRC, though it fixed "blind spot" issue for ship sonar. And then relied on spraying an area with lots of individually weak explosives relying on physical contact than any sort of "proximity fuse".

 

You can consider ASW on Halland/Nevsky to be sort-of-hedgehog, including "tiny explosive payload" part

[Sunleader]

10 minutes ago, Panocek said:

Hedgehogs weren't that wunderwaffle of an ASW either, you still had to find the sub and still get very close and very personal to it, as it had not even 300m range IIRC, though it fixed "blind spot" issue for ship sonar. And then relied on spraying an area with lots of individually weak explosives relying on physical contact than any sort of "proximity fuse".

 

You can consider ASW on Halland/Nevsky to be sort-of-hedgehog, including "tiny explosive payload" part

 

Dont forget that WoWs is not to Scale.

Some of our Depth Charges fly like 200-300m away from the Ship.

Some BBs are like 1km long.

And some DDs like Kleber if you measure the Speed they Travel at are going nearly 200m per Second.

 

So Nobody is gonna bat an Eye if Hedgehogs had a Range of 5km and spöash radius of 300m

[SmegTheNoob]

1 hour ago, Sunleader said:

Also I dont think People in a Glasshouse should throw stones.

If I was some Statpadder who got over 1000 Games in Guilio Caesare (A Tier 5 BB so OP it was Removed from Circulation almost entirely and permanently now only appearing in super rare auctions at 10 times the Original Price or by Buying Hundreds of Santa Crates) I would be sinking into Ground from Shame lol. I would certainly not try to Statshame others or Accuse them of using an OP Ship to Pad their Stats lol

 

Isn't it funny that in one post, you are saying you do not try to statshame.

Yet, a few posts later, you are doing exactly that, by asking the guy what his win rates were in certain ships.

 

Oh, and as for you accusing me of not knowing how to counter Subs.

I know full well how to counter them.

I have to employ Wargaming's "SIMPLE MANOEUVRES" method of avoidance.

[Sunleader]

3 minutes ago, SmegTheNoob said:

Isn't it funny that in one post, you are saying you do not try to statshame.

Yet, a few posts later, you are doing exactly that, by asking the guy what his win rates were in certain ships.

 

Oh, and as for you accusing me of not knowing how to counter Subs.

I know full well how to counter them.

I have to employ Wargaming's "SIMPLE MANOEUVRES" method of avoidance.

 

Just like You complain about my Sarcasm and then try to be Sarcastic :)

 

And well Yeah.

But You refuse to learn that Simple Maneuver.

So you cant use it ^^

[BLUB__BLUB]

1 hour ago, Sunleader said:

 

Well.

Historic is all False in WoWs anyways.

 

Historically Submarines could be 500m away at Periscope Depth and would not be Spotted.

Pretty much all Ships would be Halfed in their Speed because the Speeds they got in the Game are Maximum Speeds at which the Engines would Break very Quickly and at which the Guns would not really be able to Target anything or even Reload Properly due to the Shaking of the Ship Crashing through the Sea.

True. Historically speaking, the models are great (but the rest is mainly BS including paper ships). 

20 knot torpedoes would not do... current iteration though, especially with the superfast subs... 

 

Quote

In a Sense tough.

The Guided Torps Germany had were more Dangerous than what we got in Game.

Not only was a Single Torpedo often Enough to Sink or Cripple a Ship.

But these Torpedoes could just be Launched in the General Direction of Enemy Ships and would then Find a Target on their own.

It was an actual Fire and Forget Weapon.

And Firing them Revealed nothing about the Submarine because there was no need for any Sonar Ping Fantasy etc.

That is also true. Also there were magnetic and acoustic torpedoes. 

I do not object to the guided torps as such, just to the BS mechanics that WeeGee has equipped them with. 
BTW 'fire and forget', you still had to aim them so that they'd come in a certain distance of the target. 
Also would not forget about it, because this torpedo was really no longer your friend, once launched: you'd better be quiet...

 

Quote

But to begin with.

I think what Pano was Referring to was that You should Blame Germans for coming up with the Idea and Fielding it.

Because that gave Wargaming the Idea that they could bring these into the Game xD

 

Not sure why WG isnt doing Hedgehog Launchers with the same pretext tough.

If all Nations Submarines get Guided Torps then all Nations DDs could also get Hedgehogs.

Always blame the Germans... not fair! 

Allies had some sort of that as well, also they already though about it and invented countermeasures like FOXER and degaussing.

 

Yes and I agree on the Hedgehogs. The main problem I find is that Dds cannot kill subs well enough. 
Last week me and a divmate were chasing a sub, he had no divetime left, he just kept popping up/down. 
We could not catch him, only when we used speedboost could we get closer, and shooting him (HE) meant at least 10 salvoes each. 
We got him in the end, but that was 2 DDs chasing a sub, constantly shooting him too, knowing where he was. For 5 minutes. 

Meanwhile he was farting torps out of his butt. This is simply ridiculous. 

 

1 hour ago, Panocek said:

And in this game guidance thingy yeets half the explosive payload from torpedo  Unguided torps also can't be launched from below periscope for like a year by now? 

 

Also consider throwing FOXER as part of DCP button. After all, you wouldn't bring firefighting equipment to a flood, nor you'd bring hoses and pumps to fix broken turbine or ammo hoists.

Yeah, but by deleting half the payload it is actually WeeGee admitting the hitrate is a bit too much (balanz, comrade). 
Thereby changing it from skill-based to "fart as much as possible and RNG does the rest, damage is balanz". 

 

Part of DCP button OK, but it means that you'd need a bit faster recharge on it when subs are present. 
Because firstly that ping re-loads quite fast, and secondly it is not like HE, that you need to get hit more often for 'fire chance'. 
When you get hit by ping, the chance of it sticking (unlike getting a fire) is 100%. 

[Panocek]

2 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

Part of DCP button OK, but it means that you'd need a bit faster recharge on it when subs are present. 
Because firstly that ping re-loads quite fast, and secondly it is not like HE, that you need to get hit more often for 'fire chance'. 
When you get hit by ping, the chance of it sticking (unlike getting a fire) is 100%. 

Damage Control teams also take a smoke break, so does AA gunners once sector goes off.

 

And homing torps, unlike fire, you still have chance of evading

[BLUB__BLUB]

1 minute ago, Panocek said:

Damage Control teams also take a smoke break, so does AA gunners once sector goes off.

Yeah that is not the problem. They should just smoke less than the ping-crew on the sub. 

 

1 minute ago, Panocek said:

And homing torps, unlike fire, you still have chance of evading

Depends on what you brung. Also you can spec into fire prevention and all that. 

You may argue that you can also spec into rudder shift though. 
But that would be like p speccing in AA... you never know if those beasties gonna be in game. 

[Cammo1962]

On 2/2/2023 at 8:30 PM, TheNubination said:

yes but i mean anything can happen if you and everyone else help it happen.  

Sure anything can happen but in this game it is soooo rare because of WG alienated teamwork.

 

[surfer_gr]

subs i totally ignore them are not existant i dont hunt them either except if is at the end of a battle i dont play them either not even one game in coop with that junk

mind you i have all of them only for sc chase purposes have a nice day :P  iam here to have fun my stats cant change to many battles i dont chase resources either i dont know what to do with them therefore i play my fun ships :P like khaba !!!!!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

[SmegTheNoob]

42 minutes ago, surfer_gr said:

subs i totally ignore them are not existant i dont hunt them either except if is at the end of a battle i dont play them either not even one game in coop with that junk

mind you i have all of them only for sc chase purposes have a nice day :P  iam here to have fun my stats cant change to many battles i dont chase resources either i dont know what to do with them therefore i play my fun ships :P like khaba !!!!!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

You could get a few decent ships with all that coal and steel mate.

[132_Ariete]

Hi, about submarines there's a thing I cannot accept and make me angry too. Always more often happens that enemy subs detect me with sub surveillance before and at a wider range than I can do. So, actually they can activate the surveillance consumable several seconds before me (up to 1 minute!) and happens also that they detect me but I don't them! (as soon as I am detected, I activate the surveillance but I cannot detect it!)

I cannot understand why it happens, I think it is not just, because I cannot fight at equal arms! 

Someone could give me an explanation why it is possible? 

Thanks a lot

[Yosha_AtaIante]

6 minutes ago, 132_Ariete said:

Hi, about submarines there's a thing I cannot accept and make me angry too. Always more often happens that enemy subs detect me with sub surveillance before and at a wider range than I can do. So, actually they can activate the surveillance consumable several seconds before me (up to 1 minute!) and happens also that they detect me but I don't them! (as soon as I am detected, I activate the surveillance but I cannot detect it!)

I cannot understand why it happens, I think it is not just, because I cannot fight at equal arms! 

Someone could give me an explanation why it is possible? 

Thanks a lot

There is a captain skill that allows the readiness of said consumable to be faster. Check your captain. Thats the likely reason why they detect you earlier and it can be very bad if you don't have it too

 

Also the German subs have more range on the radar compared to the US I think. It might also be the other way around not 100% sure right now 

[132_Ariete]

12 minuti fa, Zuihou_Kai_Ni ha scritto:

There is a captain skill that allows the readiness of said consumable to be faster. Check your captain. Thats the likely reason why they detect you earlier and it can be very bad if you don't have it too

 

Also the German subs have more range on the radar compared to the US I think. It might also be the other way around not 100% sure right now 

I searched in the captain skills, but I could not find anything about that!

 

About the range, I use always German subs so I don't think the reason is the one you said...

It's very frustrating

[132_Ariete]

19 minuti fa, 132_Ariete ha scritto:

I searched in the captain skills, but I could not find anything about that!

 

About the range, I use always German subs so I don't think the reason is the one you said...

It's very frustrating

I found -15% readiness time ability for all consumables perhaps

[Yosha_AtaIante]

4 minutes ago, 132_Ariete said:

I found -15% readiness time ability for all consumables perhaps

Yes that one. You need this one to know when other submarines can detect you.

[surfer_gr]

21 hours ago, SmegTheNoob said:

You could get a few decent ships with all that coal and steel mate.

yes lol not many left

 

i dont play cvs either btw!!!!!

[Panzer_Guido]

On 2/3/2023 at 12:04 PM, Sunleader said:

blah

 

 

so to summarize:

 

-I suck because I have friends and play in div

-Smeg sucks because he cant do simple maneuvers

-slow, mid tier ships don't count as they are slow bathtubs that cant dodge homing torps (playing them is being stupid anyway?)

-subs being a problem is being sick and having halloucinations

-you really like triple & quadruple question marks! This is to drive home how stupid people are 

 

You really have this figured out. Very good :D (your name wouldn't be Sunleader if you werent a forward thinking, stable genius, doh)